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Traffic chaos in Kent

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  • ME14addick
    ME14addick Posts: 9,761
    edited July 2022
    What a load of bollocks on here by the remoaners.The vast majority of people do not give a shit about the more intricate side of politics.When the vote to leave was taken,"The Majority " of the voters where pissed off with being told what to do by other countries,pissed off with our own laws and court judgements being subject to over ruling by a load of pumped up over paid,un elected self indulgant popinjays in Brussels and Strasbourg,have any of you ever seen the extravagant buildings,the fleets of Mercedes which constantly ferry noneties about holding volumes of paper which are probably blank.If the French or whoever else in the EU wants to punish us by delaying our holiday makers,thats a pitiful reaction to not getting their own way,personally the EU countries can get stuffed.Look how they policed the Champions league final,blamed the English for everything.As far as I am concerned they can get knotted I wouldnt set foot in their little republic for anything.
    I am not a 'remoaner' as you put it, I voted to leave, but can now see the damage that decision has had on the UK. It is not only a disaster for Kent, with the traffic chaos caused by our decision to place a border between ourselves and the EU, but is having a dramatic effect on our economy as well. The lack of free movement is having a dramatic effect on staff shortages too. The NHS in particular desperately needs more staff and they could come from the EU if we let them.

    I stopped reading the Daily Mail when I realised how much rubbish and lies they print and how it was influencing my thinking. 
  • Lordflashheart
    Lordflashheart Posts: 5,622
    Client of mine was at Paris airport - queue for British passport holders was very long, and the French were being deliberately slow - he holds dual nationality, so used his Lebanese passport to go through a different booth - in his view they are doing it deliberately because they are annoyed about Brexit

    Mind you, the French have form for being ignorant and having short memories - in 1966 De Gaulle ordered all US troops to leave France - Dean Rusk (US Secretary of State) replied ‘does that include the 60,000 dead ones in cemeteries’
  • Leroy Ambrose
    Leroy Ambrose Posts: 14,436
    Reading some of the comments here, it's no wonder the country's fucked. 
  • ShootersHillGuru
    ShootersHillGuru Posts: 50,619
    Client of mine was at Paris airport - queue for British passport holders was very long, and the French were being deliberately slow - he holds dual nationality, so used his Lebanese passport to go through a different booth - in his view they are doing it deliberately because they are annoyed about Brexit

    Mind you, the French have form for being ignorant and having short memories - in 1966 De Gaulle ordered all US troops to leave France - Dean Rusk (US Secretary of State) replied ‘does that include the 60,000 dead ones in cemeteries’
    This is the exact mentality that’s fucked us and going to fuck us for a long time.
  • Lordflashheart
    Lordflashheart Posts: 5,622
    Client of mine was at Paris airport - queue for British passport holders was very long, and the French were being deliberately slow - he holds dual nationality, so used his Lebanese passport to go through a different booth - in his view they are doing it deliberately because they are annoyed about Brexit

    Mind you, the French have form for being ignorant and having short memories - in 1966 De Gaulle ordered all US troops to leave France - Dean Rusk (US Secretary of State) replied ‘does that include the 60,000 dead ones in cemeteries’
    This is the exact mentality that’s fucked us and going to fuck us for a long time.
    What the mentality that the French have currently adopted ?
  • BR7_addick
    BR7_addick Posts: 10,210
    https://twitter.com/haggis_uk/status/1551474000567623680?s=21&t=uV6DAfiCvTbklsUPul2F2g

    Poor old Andrew Pierce made to look silly here.  Is this the turning point where we start listening to experts in the field again (The Mick Lynch’s, Simon Calder’s and CEO’s of the actual thing in question) rather than mail columnists and our proud flaggy feelings?

    I’m doubtful but let’s see.  As the reality hits home more and more you'd like to think so.  And again I must stress, brexit voter here not a remainiac of whatever the Twitter nicknames are these days.  
  • MuttleyCAFC
    MuttleyCAFC Posts: 47,728
    edited July 2022
    It is true that some countries are applying the shengen checks more rigidly but we shouldn't assume it is out of spite. The French are one nation that do it all properly whilst the Italians tend to be more flexible. The bottom line is that we are now treated differently because we chose to be treated differently.

    We expect our border controls to do things properly but blame the French for doing the same.
  • Client of mine was at Paris airport - queue for British passport holders was very long, and the French were being deliberately slow - he holds dual nationality, so used his Lebanese passport to go through a different booth - in his view they are doing it deliberately because they are annoyed about Brexit

    Mind you, the French have form for being ignorant and having short memories - in 1966 De Gaulle ordered all US troops to leave France - Dean Rusk (US Secretary of State) replied ‘does that include the 60,000 dead ones in cemeteries’
    I have some questions around this. Are you saying that the airport in Paris has 3 queues? One for French/EU nationals, one for UK nationals and another for non-EU/rest of the world? Or 4, with a separate queue for former French colonies?

    Because that's the only way what you're saying seems to make sense to me. Wouldn't that be like us having a separate desk open at Heathrow for Aussies? 
  • BR7_addick
    BR7_addick Posts: 10,210
    The conspiracy that the French citizens working the passport booths are systematically and physically slowing down their day job to get their own back on a decision we made in 2016 is as bizarre as it is stupid.  

    British exceptionalism at its finest.  It’s taken people to a place where they say things like this out loud rather than admit we’ve have a mare with brexit in this instance, staggering.  
  • Lordflashheart
    Lordflashheart Posts: 5,622
    Client of mine was at Paris airport - queue for British passport holders was very long, and the French were being deliberately slow - he holds dual nationality, so used his Lebanese passport to go through a different booth - in his view they are doing it deliberately because they are annoyed about Brexit

    Mind you, the French have form for being ignorant and having short memories - in 1966 De Gaulle ordered all US troops to leave France - Dean Rusk (US Secretary of State) replied ‘does that include the 60,000 dead ones in cemeteries’
    I have some questions around this. Are you saying that the airport in Paris has 3 queues? One for French/EU nationals, one for UK nationals and another for non-EU/rest of the world? Or 4, with a separate queue for former French colonies?

    Because that's the only way what you're saying seems to make sense to me. Wouldn't that be like us having a separate desk open at Heathrow for Aussies? 
    I have no idea - simply passing on what he said - no reason to disbelieve him
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  • CharltonMadrid
    CharltonMadrid Posts: 5,091
    edited July 2022
    People need to stop the predictable victim mentality and realise that UK citizens are now just subject to the same checks that, for example, Moroccans face when crossing the border with Spain in Ceuta: long queues and more stringent checks than it was before for Brits. Blindingly obvious it's due to the hard border that many people wanted and that they'd expect otherwise is strange, and definitely an example of exceptionalism. There are plenty of great places for Brits to visit in the UK if they want to avoid the hassle though the effect on trade movement is going to be a big problem.
  • Big_Bad_World
    Big_Bad_World Posts: 5,859
    Simple solution. Don't go to France.
  • Nadou
    Nadou Posts: 1,725
    Before Schengen I remember the queues at the Italian- French border. Both ways there were hour long queues. I thought about that as I sat in a queue at Dover last Thursday. It was frustrating but since we are out of Schengen it comes as no surprise - our movement around Europe is no longer free.

  • Charltonstu
    Charltonstu Posts: 225
    Blame Boris,  for all the lies he told us .
  • Dansk_Red
    Dansk_Red Posts: 5,727
    Nadou said:
    Before Schengen I remember the queues at the Italian- French border. Both ways there were hour long queues. I thought about that as I sat in a queue at Dover last Thursday. It was frustrating but since we are out of Schengen it comes as no surprise - our movement around Europe is no longer free.


    We were never in Schengen.
  • .
  • stevexreeve
    stevexreeve Posts: 1,386
    Simple solution. Don't go to France.
    Quite difficult if you want to drive to Spain.
  • soapy_jones
    soapy_jones Posts: 21,353
    Like moths to the flame.
  • Nadou
    Nadou Posts: 1,725
    Dansk_Red said:
    Nadou said:
    Before Schengen I remember the queues at the Italian- French border. Both ways there were hour long queues. I thought about that as I sat in a queue at Dover last Thursday. It was frustrating but since we are out of Schengen it comes as no surprise - our movement around Europe is no longer free.


    We were never in Schengen.
    Quite right we opted out of it - another example of how flexible the EU was with us. But we had no border controls and free movement - rights were lost when we left the EU, along with other things.
  • Big_Bad_World
    Big_Bad_World Posts: 5,859
    edited July 2022
    Simple solution. Don't go to France.
    Quite difficult if you want to drive to Spain.
    That's a choice so is also avoidable. Especially if you are disabled and in possession of a blue badge. British disabled people aren't recognised in some EU countries.
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  • Lordflashheart
    Lordflashheart Posts: 5,622
    Simple solution. Don't go to France.
    Quite difficult if you want to drive to Spain.
    Ferry from Portsmouth to Santander or Bilbao 
  • Dansk_Red
    Dansk_Red Posts: 5,727
    Part of the problem is that there is now only Dover you can catch a ferry from, there used to be Ramsgate, Folkstone and for a brief period Sherness.  
  • BR7_addick
    BR7_addick Posts: 10,210
    Didn’t we invent the queue?  This is just us maintaining our culture, finally, a brexit benefit.  
  • Client of mine was at Paris airport - queue for British passport holders was very long, and the French were being deliberately slow - he holds dual nationality, so used his Lebanese passport to go through a different booth - in his view they are doing it deliberately because they are annoyed about Brexit

    Mind you, the French have form for being ignorant and having short memories - in 1966 De Gaulle ordered all US troops to leave France - Dean Rusk (US Secretary of State) replied ‘does that include the 60,000 dead ones in cemeteries’
    I have some questions around this. Are you saying that the airport in Paris has 3 queues? One for French/EU nationals, one for UK nationals and another for non-EU/rest of the world? Or 4, with a separate queue for former French colonies?

    Because that's the only way what you're saying seems to make sense to me. Wouldn't that be like us having a separate desk open at Heathrow for Aussies? 
    I have no idea - simply passing on what he said - no reason to disbelieve him
    Fair enough. Just read your post again and you said he has dual nationality so presumably went through on his French passport rather than his Lebanese one. Makes more sense in that case. 
  • Lordflashheart
    Lordflashheart Posts: 5,622
    Dansk_Red said:
    Part of the problem is that there is now only Dover you can catch a ferry from, there used to be Ramsgate, Folkstone and for a brief period Sherness.  
    Channel Tunnel killed Ramsgate and Folkestone, albeit Ramsgate could be brought back to life

    I remember Olau Line from Sheerness - I went to Holland from there with them
  • Lordflashheart
    Lordflashheart Posts: 5,622
    Client of mine was at Paris airport - queue for British passport holders was very long, and the French were being deliberately slow - he holds dual nationality, so used his Lebanese passport to go through a different booth - in his view they are doing it deliberately because they are annoyed about Brexit

    Mind you, the French have form for being ignorant and having short memories - in 1966 De Gaulle ordered all US troops to leave France - Dean Rusk (US Secretary of State) replied ‘does that include the 60,000 dead ones in cemeteries’
    I have some questions around this. Are you saying that the airport in Paris has 3 queues? One for French/EU nationals, one for UK nationals and another for non-EU/rest of the world? Or 4, with a separate queue for former French colonies?

    Because that's the only way what you're saying seems to make sense to me. Wouldn't that be like us having a separate desk open at Heathrow for Aussies? 
    I have no idea - simply passing on what he said - no reason to disbelieve him
    Fair enough. Just read your post again and you said he has dual nationality so presumably went through on his French passport rather than his Lebanese one. Makes more sense in that case. 
    I will ask him - his dual nationality is Lebanese and British
  • MuttleyCAFC
    MuttleyCAFC Posts: 47,728
    Dansk_Red said:
    Nadou said:
    Before Schengen I remember the queues at the Italian- French border. Both ways there were hour long queues. I thought about that as I sat in a queue at Dover last Thursday. It was frustrating but since we are out of Schengen it comes as no surprise - our movement around Europe is no longer free.


    We were never in Schengen.
    But we did have free movement which I think is what Nadou meant.
  • ShootersHillGuru
    ShootersHillGuru Posts: 50,619
    edited July 2022
    Would appear that Non EU nationals only have one access queue. Certainly at CDG. Lebanon on list of countries requiring a non Schengen visa too.

    https://easycdg.com/passenger-information/immigration-passport-paris-cdg-airport/
  • Dansk_Red
    Dansk_Red Posts: 5,727

    France is resisting efforts to increase daily Eurostar services in a fresh twist to a row between border guards and travel companies that last week tipped millions of summer holidays into chaos.

    In a dispute that will draw parallels with a row that brought Dover to standstill on Friday, border officials in Paris are at loggerheads with the Channel Tunnel train operator over its plans to add to the number of trains running between London and Paris every day.

    Eurostar, whose future was put in doubt last year in a funding row between France and the UK, is understood to be pushing to increase the number of services between the two capitals to 17 a day.

    City sources said that the desire to ramp up services was in part to honour commitments contained in leasing agreements for Eurostar’s fleet of Velaro trains, built by Siemens at a cost of €600m (£510m).

    Failure to hit this frequency could cause financial issues with honouring lease payments in the fullness of time, sources said. However, they said that there was no suggestion of an immediate threat to the company.

    French border and security officials at Gare du Nord are understood to be insisting that they can only cope with a maximum of 13 trains a day, causing a significant headache for Eurostar bosses and hurting hopes of capturing a boom in demand for overseas travel this summer.

    An extra four services would allow thousands more people to travel to the Continent every day, easing pressure on ferries and airlines after passengers suffered a wave of flight cancellations and hours-long traffic jams around Dover.



    Eurostar wants to run 17 trains between London and Paris per day - CHRISTOPHE PETIT TESSON/EPA-EFE/Shutterstock

    France is resisting efforts to increase daily Eurostar services in a fresh twist to a row between border guards and travel companies that last week tipped millions of summer holidays into chaos.

    In a dispute that will draw parallels with a row that brought Dover to standstill on Friday, border officials in Paris are at loggerheads with the Channel Tunnel train operator over its plans to add to the number of trains running between London and Paris every day.

    Eurostar, whose future was put in doubt last year in a funding row between France and the UK, is understood to be pushing to increase the number of services between the two capitals to 17 a day.

    City sources said that the desire to ramp up services was in part to honour commitments contained in leasing agreements for Eurostar’s fleet of Velaro trains, built by Siemens at a cost of €600m (£510m).

    - ADVERTISEMENT -

    Failure to hit this frequency could cause financial issues with honouring lease payments in the fullness of time, sources said. However, they said that there was no suggestion of an immediate threat to the company.

    French border and security officials at Gare du Nord are understood to be insisting that they can only cope with a maximum of 13 trains a day, causing a significant headache for Eurostar bosses and hurting hopes of capturing a boom in demand for overseas travel this summer.

    An extra four services would allow thousands more people to travel to the Continent every day, easing pressure on ferries and airlines after passengers suffered a wave of flight cancellations and hours-long traffic jams around Dover.


    Frustrated holidaymakers queued for hours to board ferries at Dover on 22 July - Chris Ratcliffe/Bloomberg

    Eurostar ran around 25 services each day prior to the pandemic, including to destinations such as Brussels and Amsterdam as well as Paris.

    French border police and security scanning personnel claim that they are suffering from chronic staffing shortages and cannot handle more train services, sources said.

    One said: “It's in no-one's interest to upset the apple cart. Getting on top of the post-pandemic surge in demand requires goodwill and collaboration on all sides.”

    On Friday, border officials from Police Aux Frontières (PAF) sparked chaos at Dover amid claims that staff failed to turn up to work.


  • Lordflashheart
    Lordflashheart Posts: 5,622
    Would appear that Non EU nationals only have one access queue. Certainly at CDG. Lebanon on list of countries requiring a non Schengen visa too.

    https://easycdg.com/passenger-information/immigration-passport-paris-cdg-airport/
    Just asked my client - he says they had one booth for British passport holders, and several other ones for ‘other’ - he went up to one of the other booths, which had no queue, and they let him through, but did say to him that he should have been in the queue where all the Brits were queuing 

    I think he may be a little confused in his thoughts that the queue with all the Brits was solely for Brits - it’s as you describe above, but as it was a flight to London the vast majority of travellers were Brits

    The point he made to me, is that the queue was very long, and there were passport people sat at empty booths doing nothing - why couldn’t they reduce the queue by putting people through some of the other booths - he is sure some people missed the flight by being stuck in the queue

    He doubts that would have ‘bent the rules’ if he had gone up to an empty booth with his British passport