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Traffic chaos in Kent
Comments
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I couldn't agree more re travel In Kent, far too much development without the infrastructure to cope. Maidstone has suffered badly with far too many houses, with the roads not matching the pace of change.thickandthin63 said:
I did not single out any particular person for my comments.I just fail to understand why a reciprocal agreement between the EU and the UK could not have been agreed to facilitate an easier way to travel either way.The emphasis on here is the border problems,but have you travelled around kent recently,if you get to Dartford from medway in less than an hour you have had a result.Delays all over the country damage the economy.ME14addick said:
I am not a 'remoaner' as you put it, I voted to leave, but can now see the damage that decision has had on the UK. It is not only a disaster for Kent, with the traffic chaos caused by our decision to place a border between ourselves and the EU, but is having a dramatic effect on our economy as well. The lack of free movement is having a dramatic effect on staff shortages too. The NHS in particular desperately needs more staff and they could come from the EU if we let them.thickandthin63 said:What a load of bollocks on here by the remoaners.The vast majority of people do not give a shit about the more intricate side of politics.When the vote to leave was taken,"The Majority " of the voters where pissed off with being told what to do by other countries,pissed off with our own laws and court judgements being subject to over ruling by a load of pumped up over paid,un elected self indulgant popinjays in Brussels and Strasbourg,have any of you ever seen the extravagant buildings,the fleets of Mercedes which constantly ferry noneties about holding volumes of paper which are probably blank.If the French or whoever else in the EU wants to punish us by delaying our holiday makers,thats a pitiful reaction to not getting their own way,personally the EU countries can get stuffed.Look how they policed the Champions league final,blamed the English for everything.As far as I am concerned they can get knotted I wouldnt set foot in their little republic for anything.
I stopped reading the Daily Mail when I realised how much rubbish and lies they print and how it was influencing my thinking.
While agreeing more could be done to get EU workers here,the laws had to be tightened the amount of "dodgy" workers here prior to brexit was astronomical,perhaps now they will have to be on "the book" the prospect of coming here is less attractive,I still get the Mail but only for the excellent puzzle pages,just reading one or two pages and I am at the wrist slashing stage.
Something has to change to get more workers into the NHS. A damning report on the Government's handling of the NHS has been published today, highlighting the massive shortage of Doctors, nurses, midwives, GPs and healthcare workers. Staff shortages are threatening the safety of patients and staff.
Just seen a report on border checks on BBC South East News, when it it was stated that people will have to get out of their vehicles to undergo biometric checks such as facial recognition and fingerprint checks.
We could have had a better system but Boris signed an agreement for the hardest possible Brexit. We need an honest conversation in this country about the effects of Brexit. A compromise would be to rejoin the customs union and single market.
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One of the potential Tory Leaders had proposed parking lorries in the central reservation of the M26 before it becomes the M20. I believe they did try it once or twice before Covid but that's as far as it got.ken from bexley said:Essentially been a hostage to this nonsense in Hythe since Friday, We apparently have the issue of some 'politicians' now proposing lorry parks, and utilising Manston airport, which was always available, but the resilience forum, and others refused to consider this, several months ago. That alone will not solve the issue, as in the opinion of many it will need a holding bay before Maidstone, and and for the private companies that operate Eurotunnel , and the Ferry operators to draw up plans to facilitate, this with KCC, and Highways England, and pay for it!
Having had a new knee cap three weeks ago, I am still recovering from mobility issues, I hope to be driven up to Bexley tommorow, and probably face the A20 on the way home.
This needs to be sorted out ASAP, to me there is not one thing that can be done, but a number of things that need to be implemented, and that will take years to come on stream in my opinion.
In the meantime the village roads of Kent are screwed!, and hard luck the residents.
All this after 6 years of poor management, and a lack of vision.
Blaming the French is a pointless exercise, we need our so called 'leaders' to come out with proposals which stops the M20 being lorry park, the one intention it claimed not to want to do!.
Why any poor HGV driver would want to come to the UK and face this nonsense is both unfair and not fit for purpose, no toilets, showering, and a complete lack of parking, let alone a decent hot meal is scandalous.
Hopefully, there is a solution/s to this mess, but frankly it escapes me and any resident down here!
They also did try using Manston as a lorry park but that meant using the M2 rather than the M20 so many lorry drivers didnt bother.
The problem is a bit like the housing situation - too many people trying to fit into too little space.
What happened to the proposed lorry park at J11 nr Hythe ?0 -
Of course we have got a joker in our hand but we don't want to play it. It would sort this out, sort out Northern Ireland and bring an instant boost to our economy when we really need it.2
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I went to Dallas on 8th November which was the day they opened their doors to the rotw and it took me 30 minutes from getting off the plane to my car that was waiting for me. Purely my own anecdotal experience. What’s your experience of travelling to the US and when was it out of interest?ShootersHillGuru said:
When a passport is scanned the results are not always instantaneous. If it takes a little while for the display to give the information or for that info to require some scrutiny then there’s a delay straight away. Anyone that believes and that includes Nick Ghenghis Khan Ferrari that this is some sort of French revenge really are scraping the barrel. Border controls mean border controls as Teresa May might have said. Visit the USA and see how long it takes to get through border control. As I previously posted. Taking control of one’s border is a two way street. The French have every right to patrol their border exactly as they see fit. At least British visitors are not being jetted off to Rwanda on arrival.Chippycafc said:A guy on LBC this morning (Nick Ferrari circa 09.35) said last month it took about 5 minutes to get through the french passport booth for his wife and himself, he said he scanned their passports, looked out the window had a chat with his female colleague then looked out the window again and basically wasted time doing nothing till he stamped their passports. The French oh so love us, till the Russians are coming....
Thats 12 and its occupants an hour, x that by about 5 booths open this weekend that's 60 cars an hour.
Could do it quicker from my front room 130 miles away.0 -
Any idea how much the parking is for non national trust members?ME14addick said:A great place for walking along the cliffs with views across to France, nice cafe there too. Parking is free for National Trust members.
https://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/the-white-cliffs-of-dover0 -
I don't know but I don't think it is a lot.stop_shouting said:
Any idea how much the parking is for non national trust members?ME14addick said:A great place for walking along the cliffs with views across to France, nice cafe there too. Parking is free for National Trust members.
https://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/the-white-cliffs-of-dover1 -
It says £5 on that link... NT Members get it for freestop_shouting said:
Any idea how much the parking is for non national trust members?ME14addick said:A great place for walking along the cliffs with views across to France, nice cafe there too. Parking is free for National Trust members.
https://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/the-white-cliffs-of-dover
https://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/the-white-cliffs-of-dover#Prices
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10 minutes at Boston Logan, 90 minutes at Chicago o'hare . You never know if an Air India with 300 passengers gets in before you because they have to jump through hoops it seems. And, i would not recommend Ireland to America . You will spend 90 minutes changing planes at Dublin which negates the standing inline at US Homeland Security. You still haveto wait for your luggage to come through in America. Air Fungus is cheaper than most to get across the pond but the return flight, waiting in Dublin for your connection to Gatwick or Thiefrow at 5am is not for the faint hearted.stop_shouting said:
I went to Dallas on 8th November which was the day they opened their doors to the rotw and it took me 30 minutes from getting off the plane to my car that was waiting for me. Purely my own anecdotal experience. What’s your experience of travelling to the US and when was it out of interest?ShootersHillGuru said:
When a passport is scanned the results are not always instantaneous. If it takes a little while for the display to give the information or for that info to require some scrutiny then there’s a delay straight away. Anyone that believes and that includes Nick Ghenghis Khan Ferrari that this is some sort of French revenge really are scraping the barrel. Border controls mean border controls as Teresa May might have said. Visit the USA and see how long it takes to get through border control. As I previously posted. Taking control of one’s border is a two way street. The French have every right to patrol their border exactly as they see fit. At least British visitors are not being jetted off to Rwanda on arrival.Chippycafc said:A guy on LBC this morning (Nick Ferrari circa 09.35) said last month it took about 5 minutes to get through the french passport booth for his wife and himself, he said he scanned their passports, looked out the window had a chat with his female colleague then looked out the window again and basically wasted time doing nothing till he stamped their passports. The French oh so love us, till the Russians are coming....
Thats 12 and its occupants an hour, x that by about 5 booths open this weekend that's 60 cars an hour.
Could do it quicker from my front room 130 miles away.0 -
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If you have an esta that you’ve previously flown on within the two years it’s valid for, you fly through (no pun intended!). As you say, if you get another plane arriving at the same time, probably delayed, it’s likely to cause issues. Especially if it’s a Chinese flight as it’s not unheard of for their passengers to bring in unlawful food shall we say!Bromley Graham said:
10 minutes at Boston Logan, 90 minutes at Chicago o'hare . You never know if an Air India with 300 passengers gets in before you because they have to jump through hoops it seems. And, i would not recommend Ireland to America . You will spend 90 minutes changing planes at Dublin which negates the standing inline at US Homeland Security. You still haveto wait for your luggage to come through in America. Air Fungus is cheaper than most to get across the pond but the return flight, waiting in Dublin for your connection to Gatwick or Thiefrow at 5am is not for the faint hearted.stop_shouting said:
I went to Dallas on 8th November which was the day they opened their doors to the rotw and it took me 30 minutes from getting off the plane to my car that was waiting for me. Purely my own anecdotal experience. What’s your experience of travelling to the US and when was it out of interest?ShootersHillGuru said:
When a passport is scanned the results are not always instantaneous. If it takes a little while for the display to give the information or for that info to require some scrutiny then there’s a delay straight away. Anyone that believes and that includes Nick Ghenghis Khan Ferrari that this is some sort of French revenge really are scraping the barrel. Border controls mean border controls as Teresa May might have said. Visit the USA and see how long it takes to get through border control. As I previously posted. Taking control of one’s border is a two way street. The French have every right to patrol their border exactly as they see fit. At least British visitors are not being jetted off to Rwanda on arrival.Chippycafc said:A guy on LBC this morning (Nick Ferrari circa 09.35) said last month it took about 5 minutes to get through the french passport booth for his wife and himself, he said he scanned their passports, looked out the window had a chat with his female colleague then looked out the window again and basically wasted time doing nothing till he stamped their passports. The French oh so love us, till the Russians are coming....
Thats 12 and its occupants an hour, x that by about 5 booths open this weekend that's 60 cars an hour.
Could do it quicker from my front room 130 miles away.0 -
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You still queue to get to Control, still have an eye scan and a finger 'print' and have your passport stamped. Ohare average 6000 people checked per day. If Dover expected to process 10000 vehices on Saturday assume 20000 people minimum with kids, now wonder there was a problem.stop_shouting said:
If you have an esta that you’ve previously flown on within the two years it’s valid for, you fly through (no pun intended!). As you say, if you get another plane arriving at the same time, probably delayed, it’s likely to cause issues. Especially if it’s a Chinese flight as it’s not unheard of for their passengers to bring in unlawful food shall we say!Bromley Graham said:
10 minutes at Boston Logan, 90 minutes at Chicago o'hare . You never know if an Air India with 300 passengers gets in before you because they have to jump through hoops it seems. And, i would not recommend Ireland to America . You will spend 90 minutes changing planes at Dublin which negates the standing inline at US Homeland Security. You still haveto wait for your luggage to come through in America. Air Fungus is cheaper than most to get across the pond but the return flight, waiting in Dublin for your connection to Gatwick or Thiefrow at 5am is not for the faint hearted.stop_shouting said:
I went to Dallas on 8th November which was the day they opened their doors to the rotw and it took me 30 minutes from getting off the plane to my car that was waiting for me. Purely my own anecdotal experience. What’s your experience of travelling to the US and when was it out of interest?ShootersHillGuru said:
When a passport is scanned the results are not always instantaneous. If it takes a little while for the display to give the information or for that info to require some scrutiny then there’s a delay straight away. Anyone that believes and that includes Nick Ghenghis Khan Ferrari that this is some sort of French revenge really are scraping the barrel. Border controls mean border controls as Teresa May might have said. Visit the USA and see how long it takes to get through border control. As I previously posted. Taking control of one’s border is a two way street. The French have every right to patrol their border exactly as they see fit. At least British visitors are not being jetted off to Rwanda on arrival.Chippycafc said:A guy on LBC this morning (Nick Ferrari circa 09.35) said last month it took about 5 minutes to get through the french passport booth for his wife and himself, he said he scanned their passports, looked out the window had a chat with his female colleague then looked out the window again and basically wasted time doing nothing till he stamped their passports. The French oh so love us, till the Russians are coming....
Thats 12 and its occupants an hour, x that by about 5 booths open this weekend that's 60 cars an hour.
Could do it quicker from my front room 130 miles away.0 -
To rejoin the customs union and single market without the EU overruling our courts would be the ideal situation,but I doubt the EU would accept that.ME14addick said:
I couldn't agree more re travel In Kent, far too much development without the infrastructure to cope. Maidstone has suffered badly with far too many houses, with the roads not matching the pace of change.thickandthin63 said:
I did not single out any particular person for my comments.I just fail to understand why a reciprocal agreement between the EU and the UK could not have been agreed to facilitate an easier way to travel either way.The emphasis on here is the border problems,but have you travelled around kent recently,if you get to Dartford from medway in less than an hour you have had a result.Delays all over the country damage the economy.ME14addick said:
I am not a 'remoaner' as you put it, I voted to leave, but can now see the damage that decision has had on the UK. It is not only a disaster for Kent, with the traffic chaos caused by our decision to place a border between ourselves and the EU, but is having a dramatic effect on our economy as well. The lack of free movement is having a dramatic effect on staff shortages too. The NHS in particular desperately needs more staff and they could come from the EU if we let them.thickandthin63 said:What a load of bollocks on here by the remoaners.The vast majority of people do not give a shit about the more intricate side of politics.When the vote to leave was taken,"The Majority " of the voters where pissed off with being told what to do by other countries,pissed off with our own laws and court judgements being subject to over ruling by a load of pumped up over paid,un elected self indulgant popinjays in Brussels and Strasbourg,have any of you ever seen the extravagant buildings,the fleets of Mercedes which constantly ferry noneties about holding volumes of paper which are probably blank.If the French or whoever else in the EU wants to punish us by delaying our holiday makers,thats a pitiful reaction to not getting their own way,personally the EU countries can get stuffed.Look how they policed the Champions league final,blamed the English for everything.As far as I am concerned they can get knotted I wouldnt set foot in their little republic for anything.
I stopped reading the Daily Mail when I realised how much rubbish and lies they print and how it was influencing my thinking.
While agreeing more could be done to get EU workers here,the laws had to be tightened the amount of "dodgy" workers here prior to brexit was astronomical,perhaps now they will have to be on "the book" the prospect of coming here is less attractive,I still get the Mail but only for the excellent puzzle pages,just reading one or two pages and I am at the wrist slashing stage.
Something has to change to get more workers into the NHS. A damning report on the Government's handling of the NHS has been published today, highlighting the massive shortage of Doctors, nurses, midwives, GPs and healthcare workers. Staff shortages are threatening the safety of patients and staff.
Just seen a report on border checks on BBC South East News, when it it was stated that people will have to get out of their vehicles to undergo biometric checks such as facial recognition and fingerprint checks.
We could have had a better system but Boris signed an agreement for the hardest possible Brexit. We need an honest conversation in this country about the effects of Brexit. A compromise would be to rejoin the customs union and single market.0 -
Sadly, I don't think it is something we can do until the Conservative party sorts itself out. We need a consensus and we have the malevolent press who tell gullible people what to think and it would be presented as a return to the EU, despite being something even Farage supported before the vote and the Brexit side kept saying a deal would be done.
I think there are things that can be done in the meantime by simply having a different relationship with the EU. One of friendship and respect. I think some major problems can be tackled if we treat France as partners.5 -
Looking at Googlemaps this morning, it would appear that Dover TAP is in place again this morning, the scheme whereby HGVs queue up on lane 1of the A20 on the approach to Dover. This is a regular occurrence since greater checks were introduced after we left the EU.0
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ME14addick said:Looking at Googlemaps this morning, it would appear that Dover TAP is in place again this morning, the scheme whereby HGVs queue up on lane 1of the A20 on the approach to Dover. This is a regular occurrence since greater checks were introduced after we left the EU.And J7 at Brenley corner is down to one lane so that they can turn the lorries back towards the M20 via the A249. Presently showing a 2 mile tailback. This is becoming more regular too.1
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Everything could be overcome amicably if both sides dropped the points scoring attitude,and realised that sensible cooperation is the way forward.I just do not see how slowing things down at borders benefits anybody least of all EU citizens trying to get home.MuttleyCAFC said:Sadly, I don't think it is something we can do until the Conservative party sorts itself out. We need a consensus and we have the malevolent press who tell gullible people what to think and it would be presented as a return to the EU, despite being something even Farage supported before the vote and the Brexit side kept saying a deal would be done.
I think there are things that can be done in the meantime by simply having a different relationship with the EU. One of friendship and respect. I think some major problems can be tackled if we treat France as partners.2 -
Just had a look on google map time from Hastings to Dover is given as 1 hr 30 mins (last time I done it it took just over an hour) so that doesn't sound to bad considering how it's been lately.man_at_milletts said:ME14addick said:Looking at Googlemaps this morning, it would appear that Dover TAP is in place again this morning, the scheme whereby HGVs queue up on lane 1of the A20 on the approach to Dover. This is a regular occurrence since greater checks were introduced after we left the EU.And J7 at Brenley corner is down to one lane so that they can turn the lorries back towards the M20 via the A249. Presently showing a 2 mile tailback. This is becoming more regular too.0 -
If we look at this in reverse.
If France had just left the UK, having been a significant contributor to the UK funding, leaving England to pay more to support the poorer regions, would we bother putting on enough staff to check them when they enter England?
I am pretty certain we would not.
In fact we might revel in the trouble we could cause them by not having enough staff to complete a very simple border check.5 -
There's only one side still scoring points.thickandthin63 said:
Everything could be overcome amicably if both sides dropped the points scoring attitude,and realised that sensible cooperation is the way forward.I just do not see how slowing things down at borders benefits anybody least of all EU citizens trying to get home.MuttleyCAFC said:Sadly, I don't think it is something we can do until the Conservative party sorts itself out. We need a consensus and we have the malevolent press who tell gullible people what to think and it would be presented as a return to the EU, despite being something even Farage supported before the vote and the Brexit side kept saying a deal would be done.
I think there are things that can be done in the meantime by simply having a different relationship with the EU. One of friendship and respect. I think some major problems can be tackled if we treat France as partners.
I don't understand how, 6 years after the referendum, so many people with such strong views, still don't understand how the Single Market and Customs Union works and about its founding principles.
We decided to place ourselves on the outside of the EU border. No one else. It's about time as a country we started accepting what that means, doing what little we can to mitigate that stupidity and cut out the British exceptionalism.17 -
Not long ago there was sensible cooperation but the United Kingdom voters voted to leave all that.thickandthin63 said:
Everything could be overcome amicably if both sides dropped the points scoring attitude,and realised that sensible cooperation is the way forward.I just do not see how slowing things down at borders benefits anybody least of all EU citizens trying to get home.MuttleyCAFC said:Sadly, I don't think it is something we can do until the Conservative party sorts itself out. We need a consensus and we have the malevolent press who tell gullible people what to think and it would be presented as a return to the EU, despite being something even Farage supported before the vote and the Brexit side kept saying a deal would be done.
I think there are things that can be done in the meantime by simply having a different relationship with the EU. One of friendship and respect. I think some major problems can be tackled if we treat France as partners.
There may be 17 million different reasons why that happened, but the single identifiable fact is that there was a desire to leave.
What we have now are the practical consequences of voting to leave, which is yet to happen. One consequence is that the UK is rightly regarded by EU countries as nothing to do with them, and can be engaged with in the same way they might wish to engage with Iran.
It might even be that leave voters are content that foreigners are suffering in trying to get home, because those voters voted to have nothing to do with said foreigners any more.
Good natured mutual cooperation was voted out and left the building in 2016. The EU is certainly not point scoring but behaving with an equal attitude to the UK as it would to any third country.6 -
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The starting point has to be from us and I think that can be achieved. We have seen the view that French knocking is a vote winner. That has to change. The French have issues around illegal immigrants crossing. Different issues but we both have a reason to resolve this and that is the only effective way to do it. The French also make money from tourism so it is in their interest that Brits travel there. If we could be nice to them and stop being narrow minded bastards, I'm sure we can change that.thickandthin63 said:
Everything could be overcome amicably if both sides dropped the points scoring attitude,and realised that sensible cooperation is the way forward.I just do not see how slowing things down at borders benefits anybody least of all EU citizens trying to get home.MuttleyCAFC said:Sadly, I don't think it is something we can do until the Conservative party sorts itself out. We need a consensus and we have the malevolent press who tell gullible people what to think and it would be presented as a return to the EU, despite being something even Farage supported before the vote and the Brexit side kept saying a deal would be done.
I think there are things that can be done in the meantime by simply having a different relationship with the EU. One of friendship and respect. I think some major problems can be tackled if we treat France as partners.
It is irrelevant if we think the French could do more or not. The question should be, can we do something and I honestly think a change of attitude can achieve a lot.3 -
We could start of course with our government being honest with us and recognising the cause, or at least the worsening of these issues at Dover...MuttleyCAFC said:
The starting point has to be from us and I think that can be achieved. We have seen the view that French knocking is a vote winner. That has to change. The French have issues around illegal immigrants crossing. Different issues but we both have a reason to resolve this and that is the only effective way to do it. The French also make money from tourism so it is in their interest that Brits travel there. If we could be nice to them and stop being narrow minded bastards, I'm sure we can change that.thickandthin63 said:
Everything could be overcome amicably if both sides dropped the points scoring attitude,and realised that sensible cooperation is the way forward.I just do not see how slowing things down at borders benefits anybody least of all EU citizens trying to get home.MuttleyCAFC said:Sadly, I don't think it is something we can do until the Conservative party sorts itself out. We need a consensus and we have the malevolent press who tell gullible people what to think and it would be presented as a return to the EU, despite being something even Farage supported before the vote and the Brexit side kept saying a deal would be done.
I think there are things that can be done in the meantime by simply having a different relationship with the EU. One of friendship and respect. I think some major problems can be tackled if we treat France as partners.
It is irrelevant if we think the French could do more or not. The question should be, can we do something and I honestly think a change of attitude can achieve a lot.
If it's not Brexit then what they're effectively saying is large parts of Kent can be brought to a standstill because 5 or 6 French people were an hour or two late to work. Which is it?
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Tbf neither of them can admit that it would essentially be admitting that the whole reason they are in power is based on a lie.Bournemouth Addick said:
We could start of course with our government being honest with us and recognising the cause, or at least the worsening of these issues at Dover...MuttleyCAFC said:
The starting point has to be from us and I think that can be achieved. We have seen the view that French knocking is a vote winner. That has to change. The French have issues around illegal immigrants crossing. Different issues but we both have a reason to resolve this and that is the only effective way to do it. The French also make money from tourism so it is in their interest that Brits travel there. If we could be nice to them and stop being narrow minded bastards, I'm sure we can change that.thickandthin63 said:
Everything could be overcome amicably if both sides dropped the points scoring attitude,and realised that sensible cooperation is the way forward.I just do not see how slowing things down at borders benefits anybody least of all EU citizens trying to get home.MuttleyCAFC said:Sadly, I don't think it is something we can do until the Conservative party sorts itself out. We need a consensus and we have the malevolent press who tell gullible people what to think and it would be presented as a return to the EU, despite being something even Farage supported before the vote and the Brexit side kept saying a deal would be done.
I think there are things that can be done in the meantime by simply having a different relationship with the EU. One of friendship and respect. I think some major problems can be tackled if we treat France as partners.
It is irrelevant if we think the French could do more or not. The question should be, can we do something and I honestly think a change of attitude can achieve a lot.
If it's not Brexit then what they're effectively saying is large parts of Kent can be brought to a standstill because 5 or 6 French people were an hour or two late to work. Which is it?3 -
It isn't even just Brexit itself, it's the way we chose to negotiate it. The UK opted via the ERG and the Tories, for the hardest Brexit possible (no free movement of people etc). There is now a 90 day stay law in operation, as those wjo voted for Brexit rightly or wrongly wanted us to be treated as a third country. So now there is a limit on how long Brits can be in the Uk and how often they can travel, all of which needs checking at the border. For those who feel the French could just do us a favour and wave the cars through, home office advice is to get the passport stamped to avoid being in the position of being accused of overstaying the legal time possible and facing legal action.
And the fact that the two candidates to be the next PM are happy to stand up and lie about this shows exactly how far we are from solving it. But hey, French people eh!!13 -
Let me get this straight. The tourism industry is worth £200bn to the French Economy. 15% of overseas tourists come from the UK, but apparently French Officials as so annoyed with Brexit that they are deliberately setting out to antagonise British tourists from the very start of their holidays, leading certain British people to declare that the simple solution is, 'Don't go to France'. Project Bewilderment certainly is working well isn't it.10
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We chose to leave the customs union.thickandthin63 said:
Everything could be overcome amicably if both sides dropped the points scoring attitude,and realised that sensible cooperation is the way forward.I just do not see how slowing things down at borders benefits anybody least of all EU citizens trying to get home.MuttleyCAFC said:Sadly, I don't think it is something we can do until the Conservative party sorts itself out. We need a consensus and we have the malevolent press who tell gullible people what to think and it would be presented as a return to the EU, despite being something even Farage supported before the vote and the Brexit side kept saying a deal would be done.
I think there are things that can be done in the meantime by simply having a different relationship with the EU. One of friendship and respect. I think some major problems can be tackled if we treat France as partners.
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Sadly so many people will swallow the obvious lie it's the French's/someone else's fault. The politicians must go back to their offices after saying this and shake their heads in disbelief that people could actually believe this - it makes their job so much easier. They had years to sort this all out but must have calculated that enough people would accept it's someone else's fault, as always. People in the UK deserve so much better than this.5
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Sadly in the short term, pragmatism is required from Brexiters and Remainers alike. We are where we are and a path to where we want to be needs to be negotiated.1
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The French are entitled to have all interactions with the UK in the French language aren’t they?
They are not expected to deal with Iranians who rock up in Farsi are they?
It would boost employment of MFL teachers in the UK so there’s a benefit right there.0 -
I find it a little peculiar, although totally expected, that some of the most disgruntled posters on this thread don't live in the UK.9
