getting back to the whole point of this thread - I have to go see a client in a few weeks who lives in Ashford. Last time I saw her (April) Operation Brock was in operation & the usual shenanigan's of using the London bound carriageway for both going & coming back. Seeing as this trip will be mid-August and I'm expecting some queuing somewhere along the way what do you think the best way would be to go ? She lives in Brook, a mile or 2 from Ashford Hospital.
I was thinking maybe M2 to Faversham & then down the A251 - but seeing as this thread is all about (or was until the last few days) how Kent roads are blocked everywhere once Operation Brook is active I wondered if there would be a better way.
Think the M20 is better in the London direction... So, drive to Portsmouth, ferry to Cherbourg, drive to Calais, ferry to Dover and up the A20 / M20 to Ashord, then local roads to your destination. Quicker than queuing on the M20. For the return journey, sell the car and get the train back. Hope this is useful...
I can recommend this option. Slow disembarking as 2 of the 4 French Passport stampers meeting our ferry were focused on trucks. After 30 mins they were all through and all 4 concentrated on cars and vans. Guess what? The queue went twice as quickly.
So needing the passports stamped is a Brexit issue.
Having a couple more passport checkers solves the issue.
On the subject - the A229 is closed at Loose Valley, south of Maidstone, as a bridge is in danger of collapsing following a burst water main. And the road through Leeds Village, a useful link to the M20, is closed until August 6th.
To make matters even worse, there is a repair for a burst water main in Bearsted as well, so you cannot travel through the village. Most traffic is using the A20 Ashford Road, New Cut corridor and was gridlocked earlier. I went to Tesco at Grove Green and to get back home it was quicker for me to go onto the M20 at Junction 7, come off at junction 8 then travel back along the A20 Ashford Road.
On the subject - the A229 is closed at Loose Valley, south of Maidstone, as a bridge is in danger of collapsing following a burst water main. And the road through Leeds Village, a useful link to the M20, is closed until August 6th.
To make matters even worse, there is a repair for a burst water main in Bearsted as well, so you cannot travel through the village. Most traffic is using the A20 Ashford Road, New Cut corridor and was gridlocked earlier. I went to Tesco at Grove Green and to get back home it was quicker for me to go onto the M20 at Junction 7, come off at junction 8 then travel back along the A20 Ashford Road.
I was at a classic car show in Bearsted on Sunday. Had a table booked in The White Horse. The girl serving said they’d had countless people call up to say they’d be late due to traffic.
Leaving blame out of it for a moment, if leave voters want to know who is responsible for the state of things they only have to look in the mirror I'm afraid. If @swordfish is right, and it is essentially now down to remain voters like me to come up with solutions to something I didn't want or think could practically happen, then may I suggest everybody supporting the SNP in their quest for an independence vote, because during such a campaign Nicola Sturgeon might come up with a land border solution.
I thought I was saying that it was in everyone's best interests, both here and abroad, to pool their thoughts as to how to resolve the mess and that remain voters constructive views were as welcome and valid as anyone else's, but perhaps I expressed myself badly. I definitely didn't say it was down to them to come up with solutions in isolation or when they objected to doing so for good reason.
While this sounds a perfectly reasonable proposition I'm afraid there are no answers available to this government and to Leavers that will be acceptable. We can pretend that there's some sort of solution out there that's yet to be suggested and that everyone's overlooked in the last 6 or 7 years...but there's not. The need for passport and other checks are hardbaked into being on the outside of the SM/CU, no matter how much we want them not to be or pretend they're not.
We can perhaps agree a bilateral agreement on sanitary and phytosanitary products and/or agree to regulatory alignment on others to cut down on the need for some checks, but this will be unacceptable to Leavers. If our standards are not divergent then what was the point of Leaving?
The solution has always been to remain within the SM/CU thus negating the need for these checks in the first place. We know how those goalposts moved after the vote.
Everything else is tinkering around the edges, at best. I expect we will still be talking about this and will still be seeing these queues in Kent to one extent or another for many years to come.
getting back to the whole point of this thread - I have to go see a client in a few weeks who lives in Ashford. Last time I saw her (April) Operation Brock was in operation & the usual shenanigan's of using the London bound carriageway for both going & coming back. Seeing as this trip will be mid-August and I'm expecting some queuing somewhere along the way what do you think the best way would be to go ? She lives in Brook, a mile or 2 from Ashford Hospital.
I was thinking maybe M2 to Faversham & then down the A251 - but seeing as this thread is all about (or was until the last few days) how Kent roads are blocked everywhere once Operation Brook is active I wondered if there would be a better way.
Where are you travelling from? Weekdays are better than Friday, Saturday & Sunday.
Brock is working as it should be at the moment and non cross channel traffic uses the contraflow on the London bound carriageway between junctions 8 & 9. Sometimes it flows freely at 50mph, but as the carriageway is restricted to fewer lanes, there is always the chance of a breakdown or accident blocking it completely. The A20 is an alternative.
If you come along the coastbound M20 the traffic is divided just before junction 8. Lane 1 is for the Services and A20 only, EU cross channel freight uses lane 2 and all other coastbound traffic uses lane 3. The signs for this appear at the half mile point, which I think is too late as I frequently see traffic changing lanes at the last minute.
There is no access for coastbound traffic at J8 for traffic using the services, as you have to go back to junction 7 to access the coastbound carriageway.
To answer a few questions......
Coming from Swanley so usually straight onto the M20 & off at J10. Last time I saw this client I got a puncture just before entering the M20 on my homeward journey. Although it took 2 hours for the whole tow truck/new tyre fiasco I was bloody glad I didn't get the puncture 5 mins later once on the restricted laned M20.
And I had to get a tow truck to the nearest tyre centre as (like most cars nowdays) I only have a fecking tyre repair kit which is useless when you have a 6 inch nail sticking in the side wall.
Then once back on the M20 they had restricted the lanes further as there had been an accident on the M20 and so putting more Dover bound traffic on the london bound carriageway.
Leaving blame out of it for a moment, if leave voters want to know who is responsible for the state of things they only have to look in the mirror I'm afraid. If @swordfish is right, and it is essentially now down to remain voters like me to come up with solutions to something I didn't want or think could practically happen, then may I suggest everybody supporting the SNP in their quest for an independence vote, because during such a campaign Nicola Sturgeon might come up with a land border solution.
I thought I was saying that it was in everyone's best interests, both here and abroad, to pool their thoughts as to how to resolve the mess and that remain voters constructive views were as welcome and valid as anyone else's, but perhaps I expressed myself badly. I definitely didn't say it was down to them to come up with solutions in isolation or when they objected to doing so for good reason.
While this sounds a perfectly reasonable proposition I'm afraid there are no answers available to this government and to Leavers that will be acceptable. We can pretend that there's some sort of solution out there that's yet to be suggested and that everyone's overlooked in the last 6 or 7 years...but there's not. The need for passport and other checks are hardbaked into being on the outside of the SM/CU, no matter how much we want them not to be or pretend they're not.
We can perhaps agree a bilateral agreement on sanitary and phytosanitary products and/or agree to regulatory alignment on others to cut down on the need for some checks, but this will be unacceptable to Leavers. If our standards are not divergent then what was the point of Leaving?
The solution has always been to remain within the SM/CU thus negating the need for these checks in the first place. We know how those goalposts moved after the vote.
Everything else is tinkering around the edges, at best. I expect we will still be talking about this and will still be seeing these queues in Kent to one extent or another for many years to come.
If it's a matter of improved infrastructure to help speed up the checks, what is the objection to that. It's a Brexit cost for sure, but as the queues don't distiunguish leave from remain voters, surely leavers want the issues resolved too, whatever the cost.
It might be tinkering around the edges as you say, but if they can't propose other solutions to this particular issue, I mean politicians by the way, then surely increased resourcing, both in personnel and technology, is the most sensible way to ease the problems a bit going forward. No doubt I'm oversimplifying the problem.
Glad I live in the midlands tbh. Looks awful in Kent and I cancelled an event I was supposed to attend in Folkestone when I saw how bad it was. I feel for all caught up in the mayhem and it should have been better prepared for in advance. Badly done!
Sadly, I don't think it is something we can do until the Conservative party sorts itself out. We need a consensus and we have the malevolent press who tell gullible people what to think and it would be presented as a return to the EU, despite being something even Farage supported before the vote and the Brexit side kept saying a deal would be done.
I think there are things that can be done in the meantime by simply having a different relationship with the EU. One of friendship and respect. I think some major problems can be tackled if we treat France as partners.
Everything could be overcome amicably if both sides dropped the points scoring attitude,and realised that sensible cooperation is the way forward.I just do not see how slowing things down at borders benefits anybody least of all EU citizens trying to get home.
The starting point has to be from us and I think that can be achieved. We have seen the view that French knocking is a vote winner. That has to change. The French have issues around illegal immigrants crossing. Different issues but we both have a reason to resolve this and that is the only effective way to do it. The French also make money from tourism so it is in their interest that Brits travel there. If we could be nice to them and stop being narrow minded bastards, I'm sure we can change that.
It is irrelevant if we think the French could do more or not. The question should be, can we do something and I honestly think a change of attitude can achieve a lot.
We could start of course with our government being honest with us and recognising the cause, or at least the worsening of these issues at Dover...
If it's not Brexit then what they're effectively saying is large parts of Kent can be brought to a standstill because 5 or 6 French people were an hour or two late to work. Which is it?
Tbf neither of them can admit that it would essentially be admitting that the whole reason they are in power is based on a lie.
That's essentially the problem isn't it?
The government's insistence that there are no downsides to Brexit means they've painted them, and us, into a corner.
As with anything in life we cannot start sorting it out properly until we recognise what's causing the problem. The new PM is obviously just going to continue blaming anything and everyone else but the unavoidable consequences of being outside the EU that are causing these traffic issues at the border.
Funny thing is that Liz Truss voted to Remain & was lambasting Leavers at the time.
Seems like the only way someone thinks they can become Conservative Leader is if they advocate Leave even if they didn't do so at the time. Not sure how many Remainers would now say that Brexit was a great idea so Truss must be in a minority of 1.
Boris Johnson didn't know which camp he was going to follow originally, he made a decision on the option he thought would give him the best chance of becoming PM, leading to the hardest of all Brexits.
For once ME we are in 100% agreement. With Boris it's always been about him.
Er... yeh!
Name one of the fuckers, red blue or purple who ain't?
Sadly, I don't think it is something we can do until the Conservative party sorts itself out. We need a consensus and we have the malevolent press who tell gullible people what to think and it would be presented as a return to the EU, despite being something even Farage supported before the vote and the Brexit side kept saying a deal would be done.
I think there are things that can be done in the meantime by simply having a different relationship with the EU. One of friendship and respect. I think some major problems can be tackled if we treat France as partners.
Everything could be overcome amicably if both sides dropped the points scoring attitude,and realised that sensible cooperation is the way forward.I just do not see how slowing things down at borders benefits anybody least of all EU citizens trying to get home.
The starting point has to be from us and I think that can be achieved. We have seen the view that French knocking is a vote winner. That has to change. The French have issues around illegal immigrants crossing. Different issues but we both have a reason to resolve this and that is the only effective way to do it. The French also make money from tourism so it is in their interest that Brits travel there. If we could be nice to them and stop being narrow minded bastards, I'm sure we can change that.
It is irrelevant if we think the French could do more or not. The question should be, can we do something and I honestly think a change of attitude can achieve a lot.
We could start of course with our government being honest with us and recognising the cause, or at least the worsening of these issues at Dover...
If it's not Brexit then what they're effectively saying is large parts of Kent can be brought to a standstill because 5 or 6 French people were an hour or two late to work. Which is it?
Tbf neither of them can admit that it would essentially be admitting that the whole reason they are in power is based on a lie.
That's essentially the problem isn't it?
The government's insistence that there are no downsides to Brexit means they've painted them, and us, into a corner.
As with anything in life we cannot start sorting it out properly until we recognise what's causing the problem. The new PM is obviously just going to continue blaming anything and everyone else but the unavoidable consequences of being outside the EU that are causing these traffic issues at the border.
Funny thing is that Liz Truss voted to Remain & was lambasting Leavers at the time.
Seems like the only way someone thinks they can become Conservative Leader is if they advocate Leave even if they didn't do so at the time. Not sure how many Remainers would now say that Brexit was a great idea so Truss must be in a minority of 1.
Boris Johnson didn't know which camp he was going to follow originally, he made a decision on the option he thought would give him the best chance of becoming PM, leading to the hardest of all Brexits.
For once ME we are in 100% agreement. With Boris it's always been about him.
Er... yeh!
Name one of the fuckers, red blue or purple who ain't?
That's exactly what the bad ones want you to think. Don't fall for it! There are plenty of good people still in politics.
getting back to the whole point of this thread - I have to go see a client in a few weeks who lives in Ashford. Last time I saw her (April) Operation Brock was in operation & the usual shenanigan's of using the London bound carriageway for both going & coming back. Seeing as this trip will be mid-August and I'm expecting some queuing somewhere along the way what do you think the best way would be to go ? She lives in Brook, a mile or 2 from Ashford Hospital.
I was thinking maybe M2 to Faversham & then down the A251 - but seeing as this thread is all about (or was until the last few days) how Kent roads are blocked everywhere once Operation Brook is active I wondered if there would be a better way.
getting back to the whole point of this thread - I have to go see a client in a few weeks who lives in Ashford. Last time I saw her (April) Operation Brock was in operation & the usual shenanigan's of using the London bound carriageway for both going & coming back. Seeing as this trip will be mid-August and I'm expecting some queuing somewhere along the way what do you think the best way would be to go ? She lives in Brook, a mile or 2 from Ashford Hospital.
I was thinking maybe M2 to Faversham & then down the A251 - but seeing as this thread is all about (or was until the last few days) how Kent roads are blocked everywhere once Operation Brook is active I wondered if there would be a better way.
I went to Lydd on monday,and used the Faversham route, as the M20 was a no go past junction 8 .it was fine,took a bit longer but no hold ups.
This thread is about traffic in Kent,but has been turned into a brexit bashing debate.The problems at Dover are really seasonal,(Holidays)unless of course bad weather,ferry strikes intervene,but most of the time the Channel crossing plods along.Dartford is bollocksed every single day of the week due to the chaos inflicted by the blocking of the roundabouts by lorries taking so called short cuts.The people of Dartford have this every single day,and no one does anything,when the solutions are quite simple. Anyone travelling anywhere is taking a risk of getting held up,Air ports are chaos,the train railway employees want more money than we can afford,or the toys come out of the pram.So we cant blame all the travel problems on brexit.
This thread is about traffic in Kent,but has been turned into a brexit bashing debate.The problems at Dover are really seasonal,(Holidays)unless of course bad weather,ferry strikes intervene,but most of the time the Channel crossing plods along.Dartford is bollocksed every single day of the week due to the chaos inflicted by the blocking of the roundabouts by lorries taking so called short cuts.The people of Dartford have this every single day,and no one does anything,when the solutions are quite simple. Anyone travelling anywhere is taking a risk of getting held up,Air ports are chaos,the train railway employees want more money than we can afford,or the toys come out of the pram.So we cant blame all the travel problems on brexit.
This thread is about traffic in Kent,but has been turned into a brexit bashing debate.The problems at Dover are really seasonal,(Holidays)unless of course bad weather,ferry strikes intervene,but most of the time the Channel crossing plods along.Dartford is bollocksed every single day of the week due to the chaos inflicted by the blocking of the roundabouts by lorries taking so called short cuts.The people of Dartford have this every single day,and no one does anything,when the solutions are quite simple. Anyone travelling anywhere is taking a risk of getting held up,Air ports are chaos,the train railway employees want more money than we can afford,or the toys come out of the pram.So we cant blame all the travel problems on brexit.
Totally agree, i am driving up to Lancaster on Friday for the Accrington game and there for the weekend, i have no choice but to leave the Basingstoke area until about 09.30.
Try the A34/M40/M6 on a Friday, i suspect as it has done in the past a 4 1/2 journey will take 7/8 hours.
getting back to the whole point of this thread - I have to go see a client in a few weeks who lives in Ashford. Last time I saw her (April) Operation Brock was in operation & the usual shenanigan's of using the London bound carriageway for both going & coming back. Seeing as this trip will be mid-August and I'm expecting some queuing somewhere along the way what do you think the best way would be to go ? She lives in Brook, a mile or 2 from Ashford Hospital.
I was thinking maybe M2 to Faversham & then down the A251 - but seeing as this thread is all about (or was until the last few days) how Kent roads are blocked everywhere once Operation Brook is active I wondered if there would be a better way.
A21 down to Goudhurst turn off then onto Ashford? Not ideal but might be worth looking into.
This thread is about traffic in Kent,but has been turned into a brexit bashing debate.The problems at Dover are really seasonal,(Holidays)unless of course bad weather,ferry strikes intervene,but most of the time the Channel crossing plods along.Dartford is bollocksed every single day of the week due to the chaos inflicted by the blocking of the roundabouts by lorries taking so called short cuts.The people of Dartford have this every single day,and no one does anything,when the solutions are quite simple. Anyone travelling anywhere is taking a risk of getting held up,Air ports are chaos,the train railway employees want more money than we can afford,or the toys come out of the pram.So we cant blame all the travel problems on brexit.
I thought the head honcho of the port of Dover said it was as a result of the vote to leave. Delays caused by the extra checks needed after leaving, and the need for the French authorities to record arrivals from Dover so as to be able to check people don’t go over the 90 days in France.
This thread is about traffic in Kent,but has been turned into a brexit bashing debate.The problems at Dover are really seasonal,(Holidays)unless of course bad weather,ferry strikes intervene,but most of the time the Channel crossing plods along.Dartford is bollocksed every single day of the week due to the chaos inflicted by the blocking of the roundabouts by lorries taking so called short cuts.The people of Dartford have this every single day,and no one does anything,when the solutions are quite simple. Anyone travelling anywhere is taking a risk of getting held up,Air ports are chaos,the train railway employees want more money than we can afford,or the toys come out of the pram.So we cant blame all the travel problems on brexit.
I thought the head honcho of the port of Dover said it was as a result of the vote to leave. Delays caused by the extra checks needed after leaving, and the need for the French authorities to record arrivals from Dover so as to be able to check people don’t go over the 90 days in France.
This thread is about traffic in Kent,but has been turned into a brexit bashing debate.The problems at Dover are really seasonal,(Holidays)unless of course bad weather,ferry strikes intervene,but most of the time the Channel crossing plods along.Dartford is bollocksed every single day of the week due to the chaos inflicted by the blocking of the roundabouts by lorries taking so called short cuts.The people of Dartford have this every single day,and no one does anything,when the solutions are quite simple. Anyone travelling anywhere is taking a risk of getting held up,Air ports are chaos,the train railway employees want more money than we can afford,or the toys come out of the pram.So we cant blame all the travel problems on brexit.
I thought the head honcho of the port of Dover said it was as a result of the vote to leave. Delays caused by the extra checks needed after leaving, and the need for the French authorities to record arrivals from Dover so as to be able to check people don’t go over the 90 days in France.
This thread is about traffic in Kent,but has been turned into a brexit bashing debate.The problems at Dover are really seasonal,(Holidays)unless of course bad weather,ferry strikes intervene,but most of the time the Channel crossing plods along.Dartford is bollocksed every single day of the week due to the chaos inflicted by the blocking of the roundabouts by lorries taking so called short cuts.The people of Dartford have this every single day,and no one does anything,when the solutions are quite simple. Anyone travelling anywhere is taking a risk of getting held up,Air ports are chaos,the train railway employees want more money than we can afford,or the toys come out of the pram.So we cant blame all the travel problems on brexit.
I thought the head honcho of the port of Dover said it was as a result of the vote to leave. Delays caused by the extra checks needed after leaving, and the need for the French authorities to record arrivals from Dover so as to be able to check people don’t go over the 90 days in France.
That would be the checks we voted for to take back control of our borders. The chaos in Dartford caused by lorries using roundabouts is so bad it stretches miles back down the M25. No daily chaos Essex to Kent, might be managing traffic into the tunnel that’s the problem. Inflation 10%, even by the new method of calculation RPI now nearer 12% but who’s counting, rail operators profits up 70%, no pay rises in years, and it’s the workers to blame. Meanwhile the transport secretary Grant Shaps if that’s still his name, has stopped air travel, started air travel, stopped air travel and re started air travel at random times without consulting the industry. Promised to sort P&O out within a week for sacking it’s staff and replacing them with agency labour.
Voted against fire and rehire, even though he thinks it’s wrong, and now voted in favour of agency labour to break strikes. Oh and as secretary for transport has overall control of wages , terms and conditions, says not my job, whilst hiding in a back room. You we’re were right this started as a thread about transport in Kent, and turned into a Brexit bashing debate.Maybe the same people who lied about Brexit, are the same people who are lying about the state of the transport system
Complaining about this thread swerving into a Brexit bashing debate, when several prominent people involved with Dover have stated the problems ARE down to Brexit suggests the person who complained just doesn't want to face up to the fact that Brexit is causing all the problems project fear said would occur. And then to complain about the workers asking for a pay rise in line with inflation? yeah right, very relevant to Dover.
A large volume of traffic is stuck at a bottleneck. Understanding why is important if the problem is to be fixed, but it's important to accept that the problem is worse now than it ever has been before. So:-
Have seasonal factors changed? School holidays play a part, but volumes have always varied due to those, so unless they've increased significantly more than the norm for this time of year, that doesn't explain why things are much worse now;
Has the infrastructure on both sides of the channel, personnel and technology changed? There maybe fewer border control staff where improved technology has advanced, but I'm not seeing evidence that, on either side, the impact of staff level fluctuations has had an adverse effect, or that technology has regressed, so that wouldn't explain why things are worse now;
Has the workload placed on the infrastructure changed? As members of the EU we benefitted from deregulation and the number of checks required to be performed were fewer than they are now, so yes, that is a clearly identifiable factor that's changed where others have fundamentally remained constant.
The increased demand on the infrastructure was arguably the most foreseeable consequence of Brexit and one proper measures should have been put in place to help alleviate? Forward planning is the Governments responsibility.
To remove the blockage requires either better resourced flexible infrastructure on both side of the channel to cope, which comes at a cost that someone has to bear if people aren't to repeatedly be put through this misery, or to reach a new agreement on deregulation, which won't be a quick fix because it's not in the EU's interest to give us special dispensation and, at present, our leaders are resisting calls to join the single market and customs union.
Complaining about this thread swerving into a Brexit bashing debate, when several prominent people involved with Dover have stated the problems ARE down to Brexit suggests the person who complained just doesn't want to face up to the fact that Brexit is causing all the problems project fear said would occur. And then to complain about the workers asking for a pay rise in line with inflation? yeah right, very relevant to Dover.
How many workers have got an inflation rated pay rise,the ordinary man in the street,will get his take it or leave it offer,and not have the satisfaction of walking out and throwing the rest of the working population into chaos.I am a pensioner ,I got 3%,I cant down tools.My comments about the train workers where relevant because the strikes pour more misery on travellers be it in Kent or anywhere else.The problems are not down to brexit,they are down to the people who are responsible for there interpretation of the rules.Someone in authority could say,"righto chaps lets speed it up,just stamp the passports and let people through if we get a backlog.But oh no,we must stick to letter of the law and show them they where wrong for leaving our crooked little cartel.
It would be reasonable to imagine that stamping UK passports for the EU 90 day rule might take 30 seconds per person. That allows fumbling for the item, some people fast, some slow, some children and the physical interaction involved. An average of 30 seconds because of leave seems reasonable. A Dover Calais ferry can hold 2000 people at capacity I have been told. Lets imagine it runs at half capacity. Lets imagine half of the travellers are non UK. That leaves 500 passports to be stamped. That (by my calculation) is 250 extra minutes of action that didn’t happen before the vote to leave. An extra 4.1667 hours added on to boarding each crossing at half capacity. I look forward to anybody that can plausibly adjust or trim my figures to indicate that the vote to leave has had minor effect, no effect, or even made things better on the Dover/Calais ferry crossings.
Complaining about this thread swerving into a Brexit bashing debate, when several prominent people involved with Dover have stated the problems ARE down to Brexit suggests the person who complained just doesn't want to face up to the fact that Brexit is causing all the problems project fear said would occur. And then to complain about the workers asking for a pay rise in line with inflation? yeah right, very relevant to Dover.
How many workers have got an inflation rated pay rise,the ordinary man in the street,will get his take it or leave it offer,and not have the satisfaction of walking out and throwing the rest of the working population into chaos.I am a pensioner ,I got 3%,I cant down tools.My comments about the train workers where relevant because the strikes pour more misery on travellers be it in Kent or anywhere else.The problems are not down to brexit,they are down to the people who are responsible for there interpretation of the rules.Someone in authority could say,"righto chaps lets speed it up,just stamp the passports and let people through if we get a backlog.But oh no,we must stick to letter of the law and show them they where wrong for leaving our crooked little cartel.
No point in having rules and laws if you just ignore them. We wanted these regulations, we have got them.
Complaining about this thread swerving into a Brexit bashing debate, when several prominent people involved with Dover have stated the problems ARE down to Brexit suggests the person who complained just doesn't want to face up to the fact that Brexit is causing all the problems project fear said would occur. And then to complain about the workers asking for a pay rise in line with inflation? yeah right, very relevant to Dover.
How many workers have got an inflation rated pay rise,the ordinary man in the street,will get his take it or leave it offer,and not have the satisfaction of walking out and throwing the rest of the working population into chaos.I am a pensioner ,I got 3%,I cant down tools.My comments about the train workers where relevant because the strikes pour more misery on travellers be it in Kent or anywhere else.The problems are not down to brexit,they are down to the people who are responsible for there interpretation of the rules.Someone in authority could say,"righto chaps lets speed it up,just stamp the passports and let people through if we get a backlog.But oh no,we must stick to letter of the law and show them they where wrong for leaving our crooked little cartel.
Crooked cartel, as stated by these types:
Let’s get one thing straight, we didn’t stick it to the establishment when we voted for it, the establishment stuck it to us.
It would be reasonable to imagine that stamping UK passports for the EU 90 day rule might take 30 seconds per person. That allows fumbling for the item, some people fast, some slow, some children and the physical interaction involved. An average of 30 seconds because of leave seems reasonable. A Dover Calais ferry can hold 2000 people at capacity I have been told. Lets imagine it runs at half capacity. Lets imagine half of the travellers are non UK. That leaves 500 passports to be stamped. That (by my calculation) is 250 extra minutes of action that didn’t happen before the vote to leave. An extra 4.1667 hours added on to boarding each crossing at half capacity. I look forward to anybody that can plausibly adjust or trim my figures to indicate that the vote to leave has had minor effect, no effect, or even made things better on the Dover/Calais ferry crossings.
Are you assuming only one check point is open,instead of the normal 15,if the full quota is open that cuts the wait down to around 15 minutes,not too bad.
It would be reasonable to imagine that stamping UK passports for the EU 90 day rule might take 30 seconds per person. That allows fumbling for the item, some people fast, some slow, some children and the physical interaction involved. An average of 30 seconds because of leave seems reasonable. A Dover Calais ferry can hold 2000 people at capacity I have been told. Lets imagine it runs at half capacity. Lets imagine half of the travellers are non UK. That leaves 500 passports to be stamped. That (by my calculation) is 250 extra minutes of action that didn’t happen before the vote to leave. An extra 4.1667 hours added on to boarding each crossing at half capacity. I look forward to anybody that can plausibly adjust or trim my figures to indicate that the vote to leave has had minor effect, no effect, or even made things better on the Dover/Calais ferry crossings.
Are you assuming only one check point is open,instead of the normal 15,if the full quota is open that cuts the wait down to around 15 minutes,not too bad.
Yes, fair point, I have no idea how many booths are open or utilised to allow the French authorities to stamp passports.
Complaining about this thread swerving into a Brexit bashing debate, when several prominent people involved with Dover have stated the problems ARE down to Brexit suggests the person who complained just doesn't want to face up to the fact that Brexit is causing all the problems project fear said would occur. And then to complain about the workers asking for a pay rise in line with inflation? yeah right, very relevant to Dover.
How many workers have got an inflation rated pay rise,the ordinary man in the street,will get his take it or leave it offer,and not have the satisfaction of walking out and throwing the rest of the working population into chaos.I am a pensioner ,I got 3%,I cant down tools.My comments about the train workers where relevant because the strikes pour more misery on travellers be it in Kent or anywhere else.The problems are not down to brexit,they are down to the people who are responsible for there interpretation of the rules.Someone in authority could say,"righto chaps lets speed it up,just stamp the passports and let people through if we get a backlog.But oh no,we must stick to letter of the law and show them they where wrong for leaving our crooked little cartel.
Complaining about this thread swerving into a Brexit bashing debate, when several prominent people involved with Dover have stated the problems ARE down to Brexit suggests the person who complained just doesn't want to face up to the fact that Brexit is causing all the problems project fear said would occur. And then to complain about the workers asking for a pay rise in line with inflation? yeah right, very relevant to Dover.
How many workers have got an inflation rated pay rise,the ordinary man in the street,will get his take it or leave it offer,and not have the satisfaction of walking out and throwing the rest of the working population into chaos.I am a pensioner ,I got 3%,I cant down tools.My comments about the train workers where relevant because the strikes pour more misery on travellers be it in Kent or anywhere else.The problems are not down to brexit,they are down to the people who are responsible for there interpretation of the rules.Someone in authority could say,"righto chaps lets speed it up,just stamp the passports and let people through if we get a backlog.But oh no,we must stick to letter of the law and show them they where wrong for leaving our crooked little cartel.
You'll be getting a 10% rise next year. if there is one group protected against inflation its pensioners.
Complaining about this thread swerving into a Brexit bashing debate, when several prominent people involved with Dover have stated the problems ARE down to Brexit suggests the person who complained just doesn't want to face up to the fact that Brexit is causing all the problems project fear said would occur. And then to complain about the workers asking for a pay rise in line with inflation? yeah right, very relevant to Dover.
How many workers have got an inflation rated pay rise,the ordinary man in the street,will get his take it or leave it offer,and not have the satisfaction of walking out and throwing the rest of the working population into chaos.I am a pensioner ,I got 3%,I cant down tools.My comments about the train workers where relevant because the strikes pour more misery on travellers be it in Kent or anywhere else.The problems are not down to brexit,they are down to the people who are responsible for there interpretation of the rules.Someone in authority could say,"righto chaps lets speed it up,just stamp the passports and let people through if we get a backlog.But oh no,we must stick to letter of the law and show them they where wrong for leaving our crooked little cartel.
You'll be getting a 10% rise next year. if there is one group protected against inflation its pensioners.
One of which anyone under the age of 40 will probably never become a member of in the future.
Complaining about this thread swerving into a Brexit bashing debate, when several prominent people involved with Dover have stated the problems ARE down to Brexit suggests the person who complained just doesn't want to face up to the fact that Brexit is causing all the problems project fear said would occur. And then to complain about the workers asking for a pay rise in line with inflation? yeah right, very relevant to Dover.
How many workers have got an inflation rated pay rise,the ordinary man in the street,will get his take it or leave it offer,and not have the satisfaction of walking out and throwing the rest of the working population into chaos.I am a pensioner ,I got 3%,I cant down tools.My comments about the train workers where relevant because the strikes pour more misery on travellers be it in Kent or anywhere else.The problems are not down to brexit,they are down to the people who are responsible for there interpretation of the rules.Someone in authority could say,"righto chaps lets speed it up,just stamp the passports and let people through if we get a backlog.But oh no,we must stick to letter of the law and show them they where wrong for leaving our crooked little cartel.
You'll be getting a 10% rise next year. if there is one group protected against inflation its pensioners.
Hope you are right,the 3% of 10k state pension this year didnt go far wouldnt even get you a pint at Charlton.
It would be reasonable to imagine that stamping UK passports for the EU 90 day rule might take 30 seconds per person. That allows fumbling for the item, some people fast, some slow, some children and the physical interaction involved. An average of 30 seconds because of leave seems reasonable. A Dover Calais ferry can hold 2000 people at capacity I have been told. Lets imagine it runs at half capacity. Lets imagine half of the travellers are non UK. That leaves 500 passports to be stamped. That (by my calculation) is 250 extra minutes of action that didn’t happen before the vote to leave. An extra 4.1667 hours added on to boarding each crossing at half capacity. I look forward to anybody that can plausibly adjust or trim my figures to indicate that the vote to leave has had minor effect, no effect, or even made things better on the Dover/Calais ferry crossings.
Are you assuming only one check point is open,instead of the normal 15,if the full quota is open that cuts the wait down to around 15 minutes,not too bad.
Yes, fair point, I have no idea how many booths are open or utilised to allow the French authorities to stamp passports.
It would be reasonable to imagine that stamping UK passports for the EU 90 day rule might take 30 seconds per person. That allows fumbling for the item, some people fast, some slow, some children and the physical interaction involved. An average of 30 seconds because of leave seems reasonable. A Dover Calais ferry can hold 2000 people at capacity I have been told. Lets imagine it runs at half capacity. Lets imagine half of the travellers are non UK. That leaves 500 passports to be stamped. That (by my calculation) is 250 extra minutes of action that didn’t happen before the vote to leave. An extra 4.1667 hours added on to boarding each crossing at half capacity. I look forward to anybody that can plausibly adjust or trim my figures to indicate that the vote to leave has had minor effect, no effect, or even made things better on the Dover/Calais ferry crossings.
Are you assuming only one check point is open,instead of the normal 15,if the full quota is open that cuts the wait down to around 15 minutes,not too bad.
Yes, fair point, I have no idea how many booths are open or utilised to allow the French authorities to stamp passports.
Comments
Slow disembarking as 2 of the 4 French Passport stampers meeting our ferry were focused on trucks. After 30 mins they were all through and all 4 concentrated on cars and vans.
Guess what?
The queue went twice as quickly.
So needing the passports stamped is a Brexit issue.
Having a couple more passport checkers solves the issue.
We can perhaps agree a bilateral agreement on sanitary and phytosanitary products and/or agree to regulatory alignment on others to cut down on the need for some checks, but this will be unacceptable to Leavers. If our standards are not divergent then what was the point of Leaving?
The solution has always been to remain within the SM/CU thus negating the need for these checks in the first place. We know how those goalposts moved after the vote.
Everything else is tinkering around the edges, at best. I expect we will still be talking about this and will still be seeing these queues in Kent to one extent or another for many years to come.
Coming from Swanley so usually straight onto the M20 & off at J10. Last time I saw this client I got a puncture just before entering the M20 on my homeward journey. Although it took 2 hours for the whole tow truck/new tyre fiasco I was bloody glad I didn't get the puncture 5 mins later once on the restricted laned M20.
And I had to get a tow truck to the nearest tyre centre as (like most cars nowdays) I only have a fecking tyre repair kit which is useless when you have a 6 inch nail sticking in the side wall.
Then once back on the M20 they had restricted the lanes further as there had been an accident on the M20 and so putting more Dover bound traffic on the london bound carriageway.
It might be tinkering around the edges as you say, but if they can't propose other solutions to this particular issue, I mean politicians by the way, then surely increased resourcing, both in personnel and technology, is the most sensible way to ease the problems a bit going forward. No doubt I'm oversimplifying the problem.
Glad I live in the midlands tbh. Looks awful in Kent and I cancelled an event I was supposed to attend in Folkestone when I saw how bad it was. I feel for all caught up in the mayhem and it should have been better prepared for in advance. Badly done!
Anyone travelling anywhere is taking a risk of getting held up,Air ports are chaos,the train railway employees want more money than we can afford,or the toys come out of the pram.So we cant blame all the travel problems on brexit.
Try the A34/M40/M6 on a Friday, i suspect as it has done in the past a 4 1/2 journey will take 7/8 hours.
Delays caused by the extra checks needed after leaving, and the need for the French authorities to record arrivals from Dover so as to be able to check people don’t go over the 90 days in France.
Inflation 10%, even by the new method of calculation RPI now nearer 12% but who’s counting, rail operators profits up 70%, no pay rises in years, and it’s the workers to blame.
Meanwhile the transport secretary Grant Shaps if that’s still his name, has stopped air travel, started air travel, stopped air travel and re started air travel at random times without consulting the industry.
Promised to sort P&O out within a week for sacking it’s staff and replacing them with agency labour.
You we’re were right this started as a thread about transport in Kent, and turned into a Brexit bashing debate.Maybe the same people who lied about Brexit, are the same people who are lying about the state of the transport system
Have seasonal factors changed? School holidays play a part, but volumes have always varied due to those, so unless they've increased significantly more than the norm for this time of year, that doesn't explain why things are much worse now;
Has the infrastructure on both sides of the channel, personnel and technology changed? There maybe fewer border control staff where improved technology has advanced, but I'm not seeing evidence that, on either side, the impact of staff level fluctuations has had an adverse effect, or that technology has regressed, so that wouldn't explain why things are worse now;
Has the workload placed on the infrastructure changed? As members of the EU we benefitted from deregulation and the number of checks required to be performed were fewer than they are now, so yes, that is a clearly identifiable factor that's changed where others have fundamentally remained constant.
The increased demand on the infrastructure was arguably the most foreseeable consequence of Brexit and one proper measures should have been put in place to help alleviate? Forward planning is the Governments responsibility.
To remove the blockage requires either better resourced flexible infrastructure on both side of the channel to cope, which comes at a cost that someone has to bear if people aren't to repeatedly be put through this misery, or to reach a new agreement on deregulation, which won't be a quick fix because it's not in the EU's interest to give us special dispensation and, at present, our leaders are resisting calls to join the single market and customs union.
That allows fumbling for the item, some people fast, some slow, some children and the physical interaction involved. An average of 30 seconds because of leave seems reasonable.
A Dover Calais ferry can hold 2000 people at capacity I have been told.
Lets imagine it runs at half capacity.
Lets imagine half of the travellers are non UK.
That leaves 500 passports to be stamped.
That (by my calculation) is 250 extra minutes of action that didn’t happen before the vote to leave.
An extra 4.1667 hours added on to boarding each crossing at half capacity.
I look forward to anybody that can plausibly adjust or trim my figures to indicate that the vote to leave has had minor effect, no effect, or even made things better on the Dover/Calais ferry crossings.
We wanted these regulations, we have got them.
There is this:
https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/the-british-government-rejected-a-33m-proposal-to-double-passport-booths-at-dover-in-2020-330342/
My
God
You'll be getting a 10% rise next year. if there is one group protected against inflation its pensioners.