We just can not keep gifting the opposition goals. If it was a defender making these mistakes he would have been dropped by now. We have inadequate cover in the keeping department. Mitov is not the answer too. An experienced goalkeeper is required right away if Henderson is still some way away from a return. Last season we went 13 games without a win and the same could happen this season. Pope ,as has been mentioned before has made over 100 league appearances and is 24 years old. Hardly makes him a rookie. Looks like a rabbit in the headlights.
I thought he was 23 and had made (well) under 100 league appearances?
Either way you are correct though, it isn't acceptable that with one injury our only goal keeping options neither of which are good enough. I wish we hadn't sent Dmitrovic to Alcoron.
He reminds me of Mike Rose, our keeper in the 1960s .. he'll make a terrific save and twenty seconds later, an elementary howler that costs the team dear .. Rose came to be hated (not too strong a word) by a large element of the fans, what little confidence he had quickly disappeared and his career never recovered .. I just hope that this doesn't happen to Pope. The coaching staff just need to work hard and harder with him. Part of his trouble perhaps is that he is very tall and has a long way to get down to shots along the turf
I must say the save he made in second half was a fantastic stop. So it swings in roundabouts.
It's not really though is it ? Shot stopping is pretty much a pre-requisite, making basic mistakes over and over again that cost us goals just isn't acceptable at this level and doubt many other teams in this division would put up with it.
I must say the save he made in second half was a fantastic stop. So it swings in roundabouts.
It's not really though is it ? Shot stopping is pretty much a pre-requisite, making basic mistakes over and over again that cost us goals just isn't acceptable at this level and doubt many other teams in this division would put up with it.
THIS - Henderson can't get fit quickly enough for me....we can't continue to carry Pope I'm afraid
I must say the save he made in second half was a fantastic stop. So it swings in roundabouts.
It's not really though is it ? Shot stopping is pretty much a pre-requisite, making basic mistakes over and over again that cost us goals just isn't acceptable at this level and doubt many other teams in this division would put up with it.
But utopia doesn't exist does it? Take Ben Hamer for example, he was a great shot stopper but filled his pants up if he had to come and collect crosses, something that Pope does exceptionally well. Hamers inability to command his area (a pre-requisite skill) cost us many goals.
He is showing similar form to Rob Elliott in his early days. Crisp low shots are being fumbled but he isn't pushing them away to safety. The one that went under him was even worse.
He is a good clean catcher from set pieces or where the shots are waist height or above but we can't afford to carry him with such a weakness in his game
I must say the save he made in second half was a fantastic stop. So it swings in roundabouts.
It's not really though is it ? Shot stopping is pretty much a pre-requisite, making basic mistakes over and over again that cost us goals just isn't acceptable at this level and doubt many other teams in this division would put up with it.
But utopia doesn't exist does it? Take Ben Hamer for example, he was a great shot stopper but filled his pants up if he had to come and collect crosses, something that Pope does exceptionally well. Hamers inability to command his area (a pre-requisite skill) cost us many goals.
There might not be a utopia but that doesn't excuse Pope's flaws. Hamer may not have been world class, but he is a far, far superior goalkeeper to Pope.
Seems a pretty essential part of your game as a keeper to be able 'not to spill the ball', yes all keepers seem to have some weakness in there game, bad kicking, poor at crosses.
Of course the issue is when you have a weakness you have to do something about it, and find a solution. I would have thought that it makes the defence very nervous as well, albeit yesterday's mistake the defence did seem to 'gawp' from what was a free kick. The guy made some important saves yesterday, but I do not think he is a first choice keeper in this division at present. Hopefully he will recognise the issue, and get some goal keeping advice with his technique. With good advice, and support I feel he can make it.
He needs to be dropped for his own good, to go away and work on this big whole in his game. His confidence will be destroyed and his teammate's faith in him will be destroyed if he keeps making the same basic error. Something needs to be done before the crowd turn poisonous on him.
Trouble is, he's been a goalie since he was a kid and a fundamental flaw like fumbling low shots should have been addressed years ago not when he's a professional, maybe it can't be fixed.
He's got to be dropped. Any more of the kind of mistakes he's currently making could effectively ruin the rest of his career or at least take him years to rebuild.
If he hasn't had the problem of spilling the low shots coached out of him by now I doubt it ever will be. They must work on it constantly.
We need someone in urgently. Sadly Pope is not good enough to wear the gloves for any length of time. IMHO I think that's been proved.
To be honest his career with us is over, can't see him here next season and unfortunately we decided to go against the option of an experienced back up. He will spend the rest of his career in the lower leagues, this kind of error at this stage of his career will be very difficult to totally eradicate. In every way he is a good keeper except one, but unfortunately unlike any other player on the pitch he can't afford to make even one mistake on the pitch, because it counts.
We just can not keep gifting the opposition goals. If it was a defender making these mistakes he would have been dropped by now. We have inadequate cover in the keeping department. Mitov is not the answer too. An experienced goalkeeper is required right away if Henderson is still some way away from a return. Last season we went 13 games without a win and the same could happen this season. Pope ,as has been mentioned before has made over 100 league appearances and is 24 years old. Hardly makes him a rookie. Looks like a rabbit in the headlights.
I thought he was 23 and had made (well) under 100 league appearances?
Either way you are correct though, it isn't acceptable that with one injury our only goal keeping options neither of which are good enough. I wish we hadn't sent Dmitrovic to Alcoron.
Well you're right he is 23 and has played under 100 appearances. Like 9 games less... hardly 'well under'.
Do I think he's good enough? Not right now no and not up til now...
What's the point in making camera saves if you can't hold a shot that's straight at you?
Will my opinion change? Yeah probably if he improves.
You have only got look or hear the effect it has on "the team" and us the crowd. I don't even think anyone was booing him or having a rant, people were just silent, heads in hands, waiting for another clanger? I really feel for him tbh BUT he is a professional footballer playing at a decent level and he simply cannot keep making these mistakes. Yes he has had some "hard" shots, difficult bounces but that is his job, the one that went under his arms was dreadful, so what was the excuse if that one had gone in? The team look like they have no confidence in him......the sooner SH gets back the better, I am sure this will have an effect on the back four and throughout the rest of the team. Sorry but he is not good enough at this level (yet!) COYR.........
I must say the save he made in second half was a fantastic stop. So it swings in roundabouts.
It's not really though is it ? Shot stopping is pretty much a pre-requisite, making basic mistakes over and over again that cost us goals just isn't acceptable at this level and doubt many other teams in this division would put up with it.
This absolutely. All keepers at any professional level make full length and reflex saves; it's what they do. What you also badly need in a keeper is someone who can do the routine stuff on a routine basis. Pope doesn't.
As other people have pointed out, Pope can no longer be considered an inexperienced rookie: He is closing in on a hundred first team appearances including some lengthy loan spells at other clubs. He isn't good enough.
Got to start looking at the stupid free kicks we keep giving around our box too. Fair enough Pope has to do better but we have got to stop giving away cheap free kicks and the defence need to sort that out.
If you hit a low shot at Pope, you've a good chance of scoring, because he can only keep hold of about half.
Some go under him (he got very lucky first half). Some go through him and some he pushes out obligingly for another forward to score.
Virtually everyone knows it, apart from one or two who apparently can't see.
What else is there to say ? A goalkeeper who can't save low shots ?
How I wish it was otherwise.
What's so annoying is that people are meant to learn from their mistakes. Yet the decision maker at Charlton does not.
2 years running we have played Pope and lost countless precious points. We even had a possible better replacement for Henderson, but decided to send him out on loan. It makes "one" want to scream with frustration.
If you hit a low shot at Pope, you've a good chance of scoring, because he can only keep hold of about half.
Some go under him (he got very lucky first half). Some go through him and some he pushes out obligingly for another forward to score.
Virtually everyone knows it, apart from one or two who apparently can't see.
What else is there to say ? A goalkeeper who can't save shots ?
How I wish it was otherwise.
What's so annoying is that people are meant to learn from their mistakes. Yet the decision maker at Charlton does not.
2 years running we have played Pope and lost countless precious points. We even had a possible better replacement for Henderson, but decided to send him out on loan. It makes "one" want to scream with frustration.
Easy tiger, I'm not his number one fan but.......... He hasn't won man of the match on the players marks recently for nothing. The number two keeping position is not a new issue, we had a problem last season when Hendo went sick and never won a game in 13. The lad Etheridge? was poor and at Watford away 0-5, dire IMO and Pope was a better alternative but out on loan? He needs to sort his Achilles heel out sooner rather than later or else his career as a pro footballer earning a decent wedge is over.
If you hit a low shot at Pope, you've a good chance of scoring, because he can only keep hold of about half.
Some go under him (he got very lucky first half). Some go through him and some he pushes out obligingly for another forward to score.
Virtually everyone knows it, apart from one or two who apparently can't see.
What else is there to say ? A goalkeeper who can't save shots ?
How I wish it was otherwise.
What's so annoying is that people are meant to learn from their mistakes. Yet the decision maker at Charlton does not.
2 years running we have played Pope and lost countless precious points. We even had a possible better replacement for Henderson, but decided to send him out on loan. It makes "one" want to scream with frustration.
Easy tiger, I'm not his number one fan but.......... He hasn't won man of the match on the players marks recently for nothing. The number two keeping position is not a new issue, we had a problem last season when Hendo went sick and never won a game in 13. The lad Etheridge? was poor and at Watford away 0-5, dire IMO and Pope was a better alternative but out on loan? He needs to sort his Achilles heel out sooner rather than later or else his career as a pro footballer earning a decent wedge is over.
Etheridge wasn't good enough and neither is Pope. Are you seriously telling me that there isn't a better alternative out there in the whole wide world, especially as our scouting net is now cast so wide ?
If you hit a low shot at Pope, you've a good chance of scoring, because he can only keep hold of about half.
Some go under him (he got very lucky first half). Some go through him and some he pushes out obligingly for another forward to score.
Virtually everyone knows it, apart from one or two who apparently can't see.
What else is there to say ? A goalkeeper who can't save shots ?
How I wish it was otherwise.
What's so annoying is that people are meant to learn from their mistakes. Yet the decision maker at Charlton does not.
2 years running we have played Pope and lost countless precious points. We even had a possible better replacement for Henderson, but decided to send him out on loan. It makes "one" want to scream with frustration.
Easy tiger, I'm not his number one fan but.......... He hasn't won man of the match on the players marks recently for nothing. The number two keeping position is not a new issue, we had a problem last season when Hendo went sick and never won a game in 13. The lad Etheridge? was poor and at Watford away 0-5, dire IMO and Pope was a better alternative but out on loan? He needs to sort his Achilles heel out sooner rather than later or else his career as a pro footballer earning a decent wedge is over.
Etheridge wasn't good enough and neither is Pope. Are you seriously telling me that there isn't a better alternative out there in the whole wide world, especially as our scouting net is now cast so wide ?
I wasn't trying to tell you anything, don't take it personally. Of course there are other keepers out there but Pope is better than Etheridge IMO FWIIW. We have 5 keepers on our books one is regularly crocked, two are out on loan which leaves Pope or young Mitov.
This issue should have been addressed last season when we signed a bloke from Oldham's reserves. However that's water under the bridge and Pope was worth a run in the side. Where we go from here is down to Roly but don't expect him to sign yet another keeper he'd rather wait for Mitov to break through it's his modus operandi. I know send a complaint into KM and let me know how you get on
Got to start looking at the stupid free kicks we keep giving around our box too. Fair enough Pope has to do better but we have got to stop giving away cheap free kicks and the defence need to sort that out.
Whilst acknowledging that we would want Charlton to minimise the amount of unnecessary free kicks we give away the above quote is an irrelevance in a discussion on Pope. The free kick on Sunday wasn't very good and should have been meat and drink to any keeper aspiring to play in a football league team. It doesn't matter how good our defence is, the opposition will get shots on target; many of them hit hard and low. It is the goalkeeper's job to deal adequately with the saveable ones. Pope has conceded four goals in our five home league games this season by failing in this basic function.
We're all forgetting that we are not a massive club that have a chance of winning anything and we don't pay massive wages. With this in mind I think we are unlikely to have two first team 'keepers without any faults. Nick is, probably, going to be a very good 'keeper in the future. The question is do we hang on to him and give him time in the hope that he will be worth a decent fee and/or play for us for a few years or do we 'give' him away and sign a replacement that is older and more experienced, and presumably, more expensive, that will be unhappy on the bench and leave for nothing when he's had enough?
Clearly Henderson is the first choice and if he can keep Nick can go out on loan again. I can't see us having a much better second choice.
We're all forgetting that we are not a massive club that have a chance of winning anything and we don't pay massive wages. With this in mind I think we are unlikely to have two first team 'keepers without any faults. Nick is, probably, going to be a very good 'keeper in the future. The question is do we hang on to him and give him time in the hope that he will be worth a decent fee and/or play for us for a few years or do we 'give' him away and sign a replacement that is older and more experienced, and presumably, more expensive, that will be unhappy on the bench and leave for nothing when he's had enough?
Clearly Henderson is the first choice and if he can keep Nick can go out on loan again. I can't see us having a much better second choice.
I'm sorry but I disagree with this.
I don't care how good Pope might become in the future; he is routinely costing us points now. Henderson seems to be an excellent keeper but is injury prone. At the moment Pope is a liability and if he had to play the majority of the season he could be the cause of a relegation battle. There are weaknesses elsewhere in the squad but a reasonably reliable goalkeeper is an absolute must and Pope is not reliable. The trouble is that goalkeeping, more than any other position, relies on confidence and Pope's must be going through the floor at the moment. In addition he must sense the crowd's lack of confidence in him. Both for his sake and Charlton's sake I believe that his future must be away from the valley.
I wasn't particularly impressed by Button or Etheridge when they were at Charlton but both seem to have improved when given a run in the side at other clubs.
Pope still seems to have the same basic flaw when given a run of games - it's not a one-off. Curious if this happened at York and Bury? Can it be eradicated?
Comments
Either way you are correct though, it isn't acceptable that with one injury our only goal keeping options neither of which are good enough. I wish we hadn't sent Dmitrovic to Alcoron.
He is a good clean catcher from set pieces or where the shots are waist height or above but we can't afford to carry him with such a weakness in his game
Please Hendo be back for Reading...
Of course the issue is when you have a weakness you have to do something about it, and find a solution. I would have thought that it makes the defence very nervous as well, albeit yesterday's mistake the defence did seem to 'gawp' from what was a free kick. The guy made some important saves yesterday, but I do not think he is a first choice keeper in this division at present. Hopefully he will recognise the issue, and get some goal keeping advice with his technique. With good advice, and support I feel he can make it.
Trouble is, he's been a goalie since he was a kid and a fundamental flaw like fumbling low shots should have been addressed years ago not when he's a professional, maybe it can't be fixed.
Whats Paul Robinson up to? He's a terrible pundit, needs to get his gloves back on.
If he hasn't had the problem of spilling the low shots coached out of him by now I doubt it ever will be. They must work on it constantly.
We need someone in urgently. Sadly Pope is not good enough to wear the gloves for any length of time. IMHO I think that's been proved.
Do I think he's good enough? Not right now no and not up til now...
What's the point in making camera saves if you can't hold a shot that's straight at you?
Will my opinion change? Yeah probably if he improves.
I really feel for him tbh BUT he is a professional footballer playing at a decent level and he simply cannot keep making these mistakes. Yes he has had some "hard" shots, difficult bounces but that is his job, the one that went under his arms was dreadful, so what was the excuse if that one had gone in? The team look like they have no confidence in him......the sooner SH gets back the better, I am sure this will have an effect on the back four and throughout the rest of the team.
Sorry but he is not good enough at this level (yet!)
COYR.........
When Nick Pope kept all those clean sheet at York and Bury.
Did he or did he not spill the hard shots at his body ?
If he did why didn't the mistake result in a goal.
If he didn't then why is he now ?
It's not the size of the crowd, because he was fine when he had a full house of Millwall and Ipswich fans behind the Jimmy Seed end.
Highly doubt he'll be here next season, if henderson suffers another injury this year i'd imagine we'd have to sign another 1st choice keeper anyway.
As other people have pointed out, Pope can no longer be considered an inexperienced rookie: He is closing in on a hundred first team appearances including some lengthy loan spells at other clubs. He isn't good enough.
Some go under him (he got very lucky first half). Some go through him and some he pushes out obligingly for another forward to score.
Virtually everyone knows it, apart from one or two who apparently can't see.
What else is there to say ? A goalkeeper who can't save low shots ?
How I wish it was otherwise.
What's so annoying is that people are meant to learn from their mistakes. Yet the decision maker at Charlton does not.
2 years running we have played Pope and lost countless precious points. We even had a possible better replacement for Henderson, but decided to send him out on loan. It makes "one" want to scream with frustration.
This issue should have been addressed last season when we signed a bloke from Oldham's reserves. However that's water under the bridge and Pope was worth a run in the side. Where we go from here is down to Roly but don't expect him to sign yet another keeper he'd rather wait for Mitov to break through it's his modus operandi. I know send a complaint into KM and let me know how you get on
Clearly Henderson is the first choice and if he can keep Nick can go out on loan again. I can't see us having a much better second choice.
I don't care how good Pope might become in the future; he is routinely costing us points now. Henderson seems to be an excellent keeper but is injury prone. At the moment Pope is a liability and if he had to play the majority of the season he could be the cause of a relegation battle. There are weaknesses elsewhere in the squad but a reasonably reliable goalkeeper is an absolute must and Pope is not reliable. The trouble is that goalkeeping, more than any other position, relies on confidence and Pope's must be going through the floor at the moment. In addition he must sense the crowd's lack of confidence in him. Both for his sake and Charlton's sake I believe that his future must be away from the valley.
Pope still seems to have the same basic flaw when given a run of games - it's not a one-off. Curious if this happened at York and Bury? Can it be eradicated?