It's not just the low shots but the horrendous kicking and ball control at feet as well. Genuinely amazed he is plying his trade in the Championship with us.
And whilst Etheridge had a bad game at Watford, along with everyone else, I still think he had less weaknesses to his game than Pope.
I think the feeling at the club is that his general game is very good and the flaws can be coached out of him.
I'm not sure at what point they see what the rest of us can that unfortunately Nick isn't improving and at 100 first team games into his career he is still not dealing with what should be bread and butter to any goalkeeper. Those errors are starting to cost points now.
Just my opinion but we need Henderson back now or we need an emergency loan. Anything else would be negligent at this point.
I've tried to back him but what he saves with worldies he then lets in with playground errors. Im struggling to understand how/why we're not coaching this?
I've tried to back him but what he saves with worldies he then lets in with playground errors. Im struggling to understand how/why we're not coaching this?
Have we lost a goalkeeper coach recently?
Yes. Ben Roberts to Brighton and was replaced by I think the Bolton goalkeeping coach.
If he's been a 'full-time' professional for a number of years with coaching etc. and handling/judging low shots is still a gaping flaw in his overall game, I'm sceptical that it can be coached out of him... but if it can be I think with that he'd be a very good keeper.
I don't think we can go on losing points from goalkeeper mistakes at the moment, but in the long-term I wouldn't want us to be paying for a decent championship-level goalkeeper to sit on the bench (for potentially a very long time) when our starting XI isn't perfect.
If we can't get a loan in until Henderson is back, I'd probably stick with Pope, unless he completely goes to pieces. Tough one!
We're all forgetting that we are not a massive club that have a chance of winning anything and we don't pay massive wages. With this in mind I think we are unlikely to have two first team 'keepers without any faults. Nick is, probably, going to be a very good 'keeper in the future. The question is do we hang on to him and give him time in the hope that he will be worth a decent fee and/or play for us for a few years or do we 'give' him away and sign a replacement that is older and more experienced, and presumably, more expensive, that will be unhappy on the bench and leave for nothing when he's had enough?
Clearly Henderson is the first choice and if he can keep Nick can go out on loan again. I can't see us having a much better second choice.
I'm sorry but I disagree with this.
I don't care how good Pope might become in the future; he is routinely costing us points now. Henderson seems to be an excellent keeper but is injury prone. At the moment Pope is a liability and if he had to play the majority of the season he could be the cause of a relegation battle. There are weaknesses elsewhere in the squad but a reasonably reliable goalkeeper is an absolute must and Pope is not reliable. The trouble is that goalkeeping, more than any other position, relies on confidence and Pope's must be going through the floor at the moment. In addition he must sense the crowd's lack of confidence in him. Both for his sake and Charlton's sake I believe that his future must be away from the valley.
Sorry the last line should have read:
Clearly Henderson is the first choice and if he can keep fit Nick can go out on loan again. I can't see us having a much better second choice.
I'm more than happy for you to disagree with me (it doesn't make you unique) but I was offering two suggestions/alternatives, not recommending one. We have a young keeper that might get better or we pay more for an experienced one that will not want to be a number two for very long.
I take your argument that goalkeeper might be the worst position to 'develop' a player as mistakes elsewhere on the field can be less disastrous. If (and I'm not saying this is the case) every other mistake will cost us a point or two then that is more important that a full back that slices a pass into touch once a game. However these 'keepers need to develop somewhere and, presumably, those that do so will be worth money when sold, or cost money when purchased. The question is do we want to buy all our 'keepers or would we rather have that money for a striker?
If he's been a 'full-time' professional for a number of years with coaching etc. and handling/judging low shots is still a gaping flaw in his overall game, I'm sceptical that it can be coached out of him... but if it can be I think with that he'd be a very good keeper.
I don't think we can go on losing points from goalkeeper mistakes at the moment, but in the long-term I wouldn't want us to be paying for a decent championship-level goalkeeper to sit on the bench (for potentially a very long time) when our starting XI isn't perfect.
If we can't get a loan in until Henderson is back, I'd probably stick with Pope, unless he completely goes to pieces. Tough one!
Unfortunately in goalkeeping terms I think Pope has gone to pieces. In the last two home games he has conceded three goals, two against Huddersfield and the first against Fulham, that were readily saveable. In many ways he has been lucky, he let the ball squirm under him against Fulham fortunately without result and against Huddersfield he pushed the ball towards Scullion who missed his footing.
If he's been a 'full-time' professional for a number of years with coaching etc. and handling/judging low shots is still a gaping flaw in his overall game, I'm sceptical that it can be coached out of him... but if it can be I think with that he'd be a very good keeper.
I don't think we can go on losing points from goalkeeper mistakes at the moment, but in the long-term I wouldn't want us to be paying for a decent championship-level goalkeeper to sit on the bench (for potentially a very long time) when our starting XI isn't perfect.
If we can't get a loan in until Henderson is back, I'd probably stick with Pope, unless he completely goes to pieces. Tough one!
Unfortunately in goalkeeping terms I think Pope has gone to pieces. In the last two home games he has conceded three goals, two against Huddersfield and the first against Fulham, that were readily saveable. In many ways he has been lucky, he let the ball squirm under him against Fulham fortunately without result and against Huddersfield he pushed the ball towards Scullion who missed his footing.
To be fair he came across as being more than confident on Thursday evening when he was at the East Kent Addicks Q&A session with Tony Watt. I would go as far as to say that he was in high spirits.
If he's been a 'full-time' professional for a number of years with coaching etc. and handling/judging low shots is still a gaping flaw in his overall game, I'm sceptical that it can be coached out of him... but if it can be I think with that he'd be a very good keeper.
I don't think we can go on losing points from goalkeeper mistakes at the moment, but in the long-term I wouldn't want us to be paying for a decent championship-level goalkeeper to sit on the bench (for potentially a very long time) when our starting XI isn't perfect.
If we can't get a loan in until Henderson is back, I'd probably stick with Pope, unless he completely goes to pieces. Tough one!
Unfortunately in goalkeeping terms I think Pope has gone to pieces. In the last two home games he has conceded three goals, two against Huddersfield and the first against Fulham, that were readily saveable. In many ways he has been lucky, he let the ball squirm under him against Fulham fortunately without result and against Huddersfield he pushed the ball towards Scullion who missed his footing.
To be fair he came across as being more than confident on Thursday evening when he was at the East Kent Addicks Q&A session with Tony Watt. I would go as far as to say that he was in high spirits.
if he'd been drinking spirits before the games, that could explain the handling errors.
Anything technical should be able to be coached out of him. I do thing this is technical. The worrying thing is that on the face of it, Sunday's free kick was rubbish. But it was clearly a tactic that came from research on their part. It will now be a tactic of most teams to test Pope in this area and this makes it all the more important that he has intensive coaching over the international break. If he doesn’t crack this, his career is in jeopardy.
Takes the high ball better than most of our keepers over the years. but the basic taking of a low shot at his body is a major flaw.
I will always support our young players when ever possible. But the crowd and i guess his team mates will start to doubt him.(or already have)
The mistake against Derby last season was a portents of mistakes to come. Not as many as some suggest but too many to establish yourself as a championship keeper.
I would rather Stephen Henderson play a couple of academy U21 matches first. Even if it means Pope plays at Reading. I want to see Hendo for the rest of the season not just a few games at a time between injuries.
We're all forgetting that we are not a massive club that have a chance of winning anything and we don't pay massive wages. With this in mind I think we are unlikely to have two first team 'keepers without any faults. Nick is, probably, going to be a very good 'keeper in the future. The question is do we hang on to him and give him time in the hope that he will be worth a decent fee and/or play for us for a few years or do we 'give' him away and sign a replacement that is older and more experienced, and presumably, more expensive, that will be unhappy on the bench and leave for nothing when he's had enough?
Clearly Henderson is the first choice and if he can keep Nick can go out on loan again. I can't see us having a much better second choice.
I'm sorry but I disagree with this.
I don't care how good Pope might become in the future; he is routinely costing us points now. Henderson seems to be an excellent keeper but is injury prone. At the moment Pope is a liability and if he had to play the majority of the season he could be the cause of a relegation battle. There are weaknesses elsewhere in the squad but a reasonably reliable goalkeeper is an absolute must and Pope is not reliable. The trouble is that goalkeeping, more than any other position, relies on confidence and Pope's must be going through the floor at the moment. In addition he must sense the crowd's lack of confidence in him. Both for his sake and Charlton's sake I believe that his future must be away from the valley.
Sorry the last line should have read:
Clearly Henderson is the first choice and if he can keep fit Nick can go out on loan again. I can't see us having a much better second choice.
I'm more than happy for you to disagree with me (it doesn't make you unique) but I was offering two suggestions/alternatives, not recommending one. We have a young keeper that might get better or we pay more for an experienced one that will not want to be a number two for very long.
I take your argument that goalkeeper might be the worst position to 'develop' a player as mistakes elsewhere on the field can be less disastrous. If (and I'm not saying this is the case) every other mistake will cost us a point or two then that is more important that a full back that slices a pass into touch once a game. However these 'keepers need to develop somewhere and, presumably, those that do so will be worth money when sold, or cost money when purchased. The question is do we want to buy all our 'keepers or would we rather have that money for a striker?
And I don't mind in the least if you disagree with me; that is what the forum is for.
With regard to the main thrust of your argument my response is that if by persisting in playing a goalkeeper who frequently concedes unnecessary goals this could cost us a great deal more than getting another better keeper whether on a permanent or temporary basis. I don't believe that it was a coincidence that our upturn in form in the Spring coincided with Henderson's return to the side. It wasn't the only factor of course but we stopped giving away so many silly goals. I acknowledge that the team as a whole have not covered themselves in glory in the last few weeks but even allowing for that we would be 2 or 3 points better off with a more confident, and, dare I say, more able keeper.
We're all forgetting that we are not a massive club that have a chance of winning anything and we don't pay massive wages. With this in mind I think we are unlikely to have two first team 'keepers without any faults. Nick is, probably, going to be a very good 'keeper in the future. The question is do we hang on to him and give him time in the hope that he will be worth a decent fee and/or play for us for a few years or do we 'give' him away and sign a replacement that is older and more experienced, and presumably, more expensive, that will be unhappy on the bench and leave for nothing when he's had enough?
Clearly Henderson is the first choice and if he can keep Nick can go out on loan again. I can't see us having a much better second choice.
I'm sorry but I disagree with this.
I don't care how good Pope might become in the future; he is routinely costing us points now. Henderson seems to be an excellent keeper but is injury prone. At the moment Pope is a liability and if he had to play the majority of the season he could be the cause of a relegation battle. There are weaknesses elsewhere in the squad but a reasonably reliable goalkeeper is an absolute must and Pope is not reliable. The trouble is that goalkeeping, more than any other position, relies on confidence and Pope's must be going through the floor at the moment. In addition he must sense the crowd's lack of confidence in him. Both for his sake and Charlton's sake I believe that his future must be away from the valley.
Sorry the last line should have read:
Clearly Henderson is the first choice and if he can keep fit Nick can go out on loan again. I can't see us having a much better second choice.
I'm more than happy for you to disagree with me (it doesn't make you unique) but I was offering two suggestions/alternatives, not recommending one. We have a young keeper that might get better or we pay more for an experienced one that will not want to be a number two for very long.
I take your argument that goalkeeper might be the worst position to 'develop' a player as mistakes elsewhere on the field can be less disastrous. If (and I'm not saying this is the case) every other mistake will cost us a point or two then that is more important that a full back that slices a pass into touch once a game. However these 'keepers need to develop somewhere and, presumably, those that do so will be worth money when sold, or cost money when purchased. The question is do we want to buy all our 'keepers or would we rather have that money for a striker?
And I don't mind in the least if you disagree with me; that is what the forum is for.
With regard to the main thrust of your argument my response is that if by persisting in playing a goalkeeper who frequently concedes unnecessary goals this could cost us a great deal more than getting another better keeper whether on a permanent or temporary basis. I don't believe that it was a coincidence that our upturn in form in the Spring coincided with Henderson's return to the side. It wasn't the only factor of course but we stopped giving away so many silly goals. I acknowledge that the team as a whole have not covered themselves in glory in the last few weeks but even allowing for that we would be 2 or 3 points better off with a more confident, and, dare I say, more able keeper.
I'm pretty sure that last season we went 99 days without winning a game after Henderson got injured, we won his first game back - that can't be a coincidence.
I've tried to back him but what he saves with worldies he then lets in with playground errors. Im struggling to understand how/why we're not coaching this?
Have we lost a goalkeeper coach recently?
Yes. Ben Roberts to Brighton and was replaced by I think the Bolton goalkeeping coach.
Looking at the table, you can see who got the better deal.
I did not go Sunday so am unable to comment on Pope, but he had a fantastic game at Blackburn I had hoped he had turned the corner. However, I think he has probably cost us at least three points this season and that would have moved us up the table. I hope Henderson comes back soon and has an injury free remainder of the season then Pope can be released.
Made a very good save near the end but usually when he makes a save he does not push the ball round the post but back out into play (twice in the first half). It I worrying that he does not seem to be able to eradicate this from his game.
Does anyone know if Pope made similar errors at either of his two recent loan clubs?
Well he played about 25 odd games and let in no (sic) goals so guess not.
Young keeper playing behind a defence that isn't sure of itself. Still think the lad has the goalkeeping world in his hands.
On the loans, Pope has rocked up as a big fish and played with his chest puffed out, feeling big and making himself big. I'd agree with some of the other comments that he doesn't have that boss man attitude in nets for Charlton YET. mental fortitude and the mind games on the oppo can be huge for a keeper. He isn't up to scratch on the projection of his on-pitch ego but given the circumstances, can't see how he can be expected to. Our defence as a whole looks extremely nervy and the unit doesn't seem to have faith in what the others are going to do, as in having 100% faith in your fellow defenders reaction to an attack.
Seaman, dixon, Winterburn.... Battle was won before they crossed the line because they knew exactly what the other was going to do in 99% of scenarios. You have to cut Popey some slack because he is playing behind a defence that appears to be winging it in the main.
If Henderson had been fit I think we would have 3-6 points more. He had a problem with one shoulder last season (fixed) and a problem with the other this (operated on hopefully soon fit).
He is a top quality keeper with good command of defence, good distribution and good stopping skills.
Pope is also a good keeper. His distribution needs to improve and his ability against the skiddy low balls is currently not acceptable.
Hopefully he can get an extra 10-20% better on those and I'm sure that's what he is being coached in. I do not think we should look to change unless Henderson is not going to be fit until after Christmas.
Agree with the similarities with Mike Rose - a comparison might also be made with Jeff Wood. Odd thing is that if the general policy of RD is make 5-6 major signings each summer and then rely solely on loanees and out of contract players to fill gaps (which isn't a bad policy if you want to stay within the Financial Fair Play regulations) why didn't we just keep Etheridge on as a squad member, especially as Henderson has a record of never being 100% fit? Can't quite tell which way Pope might go. Hamer and Elliott both ended up in the Premiership, on the other hand Pope might just remain a good League One 'keeper.
If Henderson had been fit I think we would have 3-6 points more. He had a problem with one shoulder last season (fixed) and a problem with the other this (operated on hopefully soon fit).
He is a top quality keeper with good command of defence, good distribution and good stopping skills.
Pope is also a good keeper. His distribution needs to improve and his ability against the skiddy low balls is currently not acceptable.
Hopefully he can get an extra 10-20% better on those and I'm sure that's what he is being coached in. I do not think we should look to change unless Henderson is not going to be fit until after Christmas.
I don't see how you can be a good keeper if you make quite so many elementary mistakes. We all want him to do well but we need a proper keeper asap, Hendo or otherwise
Hes a good shot stopper and i think the potentials there for better things, he just needs to get his head down in training and work on these flaws until he can hold a low ball with his eyes shut!
Well I don't suppose that this is a recent flaw in his game so I would presume that the GK coaches have been prioritising this for some years now. I dont see much improvement so the coaching doesn't seem to be eliminating it from his game.
I saw Pope a lot when he played for the U-21's, and there was no sign at all of this problem. When he had his two lengthy loan spells out I read most of the reports and they were very positive, never once did I read about him spilling shots. Maybe the one through his legs knocked his confidence and he has been working on his technique and is still a work in progress in this area. Although it would be better for him to sort this problem out away from the spotlight, I really hope Henderson is not rushed back too soon, his shoulder is fragile enough as it is without taking any risks. I would not drop Pope either, and the ironic cheers when he collects the ball won't do him any good. He's just had 3 MOM performances, all away from home, and I think all his errors have been at The Valley. Coincidence? I think not!
The Derby game last season when we were 3-1 up and the ball went through him was the first time it was noticed. I had seen him make two mistakes when he came out of his goal and there was a mix up with the defenders in a U21 game and in Spain at the beginning of last season but no sign of the flaw that is there now. He doesn't lack confidence off the field, but seeing the way the Fulham forwards rushed in after that free kick ? You would think they had some insider information ! Anything to do with you Phil ?
Firstly, Pope is a far better keeper than Etheridge ever was, so I'm very glad that Walsall's gain is not our loss.
Secondly, it really is a case that Pope seems to struggle more at home than away. Maybe we need to know why? Is it simply a loss of confidence in him by the crowd, or lack of concentration, or something else? It surely cannot be poor technique as this doesn't seem to surface in away games?
I would pick Hendo at the earliest opportunity and keep Pope as his number 2. If Pope only played four or five games a season we probably wouldn't have a problem with him...
Comments
He needs to be dropped for his own good let alone the teams.
And whilst Etheridge had a bad game at Watford, along with everyone else, I still think he had less weaknesses to his game than Pope.
I'm not sure at what point they see what the rest of us can that unfortunately Nick isn't improving and at 100 first team games into his career he is still not dealing with what should be bread and butter to any goalkeeper. Those errors are starting to cost points now.
Just my opinion but we need Henderson back now or we need an emergency loan. Anything else would be negligent at this point.
Have we lost a goalkeeper coach recently?
I don't think we can go on losing points from goalkeeper mistakes at the moment, but in the long-term I wouldn't want us to be paying for a decent championship-level goalkeeper to sit on the bench (for potentially a very long time) when our starting XI isn't perfect.
If we can't get a loan in until Henderson is back, I'd probably stick with Pope, unless he completely goes to pieces. Tough one!
Clearly Henderson is the first choice and if he can keep fit Nick can go out on loan again. I can't see us having a much better second choice.
I'm more than happy for you to disagree with me (it doesn't make you unique) but I was offering two suggestions/alternatives, not recommending one. We have a young keeper that might get better or we pay more for an experienced one that will not want to be a number two for very long.
I take your argument that goalkeeper might be the worst position to 'develop' a player as mistakes elsewhere on the field can be less disastrous. If (and I'm not saying this is the case) every other mistake will cost us a point or two then that is more important that a full back that slices a pass into touch once a game. However these 'keepers need to develop somewhere and, presumably, those that do so will be worth money when sold, or cost money when purchased. The question is do we want to buy all our 'keepers or would we rather have that money for a striker?
Takes the high ball better than most of our keepers over the years.
but the basic taking of a low shot at his body is a major flaw.
I will always support our young players when ever possible.
But the crowd and i guess his team mates will start to doubt him.(or already have)
The mistake against Derby last season was a portents of mistakes to come.
Not as many as some suggest but too many to establish yourself as a championship keeper.
I would rather Stephen Henderson play a couple of academy U21 matches first.
Even if it means Pope plays at Reading. I want to see Hendo for the rest of the season not just a few games at a time between injuries.
With regard to the main thrust of your argument my response is that if by persisting in playing a goalkeeper who frequently concedes unnecessary goals this could cost us a great deal more than getting another better keeper whether on a permanent or temporary basis. I don't believe that it was a coincidence that our upturn in form in the Spring coincided with Henderson's return to the side. It wasn't the only factor of course but we stopped giving away so many silly goals. I acknowledge that the team as a whole have not covered themselves in glory in the last few weeks but even allowing for that we would be 2 or 3 points better off with a more confident, and, dare I say, more able keeper.
But of course, he probably doesn't get such good shots to stop in League 2.
However, I think he has probably cost us at least three points this season and that would have moved us up the table.
I hope Henderson comes back soon and has an injury free remainder of the season then Pope can be released.
Young keeper playing behind a defence that isn't sure of itself. Still think the lad has the goalkeeping world in his hands.
On the loans, Pope has rocked up as a big fish and played with his chest puffed out, feeling big and making himself big. I'd agree with some of the other comments that he doesn't have that boss man attitude in nets for Charlton YET. mental fortitude and the mind games on the oppo can be huge for a keeper. He isn't up to scratch on the projection of his on-pitch ego but given the circumstances, can't see how he can be expected to. Our defence as a whole looks extremely nervy and the unit doesn't seem to have faith in what the others are going to do, as in having 100% faith in your fellow defenders reaction to an attack.
Seaman, dixon, Winterburn.... Battle was won before they crossed the line because they knew exactly what the other was going to do in 99% of scenarios. You have to cut Popey some slack because he is playing behind a defence that appears to be winging it in the main.
He is a top quality keeper with good command of defence, good distribution and good stopping skills.
Pope is also a good keeper. His distribution needs to improve and his ability against the skiddy low balls is currently not acceptable.
Hopefully he can get an extra 10-20% better on those and I'm sure that's what he is being coached in. I do not think we should look to change unless Henderson is not going to be fit until after Christmas.
The Derby game last season when we were 3-1 up and the ball went through him was the first time it was noticed. I had seen him make two mistakes when he came out of his goal and there was a mix up with the defenders in a U21 game and in Spain at the beginning of last season but no sign of the flaw that is there now. He doesn't lack confidence off the field, but seeing the way the Fulham forwards rushed in after that free kick ? You would think they had some insider information !
Anything to do with you Phil ?
Firstly, Pope is a far better keeper than Etheridge ever was, so I'm very glad that Walsall's gain is not our loss.
Secondly, it really is a case that Pope seems to struggle more at home than away. Maybe we need to know why? Is it simply a loss of confidence in him by the crowd, or lack of concentration, or something else? It surely cannot be poor technique as this doesn't seem to surface in away games?
I would pick Hendo at the earliest opportunity and keep Pope as his number 2. If Pope only played four or five games a season we probably wouldn't have a problem with him...