The only way Is to continue protests and someone from within the protest group try and find a consortium or consortiums to buy him out, as I stated three days ago these were few and far between when looking last time,
My point you quoted is merely suggesting that even if you get rid of KM another will be found and the same issues will remain, this is RD's rules not km that the club are playing to
RD won't change his main aim, as that is his only reason for buying Charlton. His main aim is to see if he can run Charlton at break even ie without losing money.
This is a laudable, but deluded aim. It just may have proved successful, if all the other teams were competing on a level playing field. However, FFP is no longer working towards all the other clubs also breaking even. Clubs can lose up to £13M per season and £45M over 3 seasons. Many clubs, rightly or wrongly will be throwing far money money into their squads than us. Most fans suspected the football league would backtrack, yet RD who is apparently cleverer than anyone else, did not see this coming. Extremely poor judgement IMO.
The most likely scenario of us breaking even whilst many other clubs spend millions more, is that we will be relegated, like Blackpool and Yeovil most recently.
In order to maintain this aim RD must have a CEO and coach that will back him come what may. The vast majority of competent CEO's and coaches would not.
We are therefore left with a CEO in name only. The CEO cannot answer any searching questions honestly, because she either has to admit that the strategy is flawed and will never work, in which case she will be fired, or has to lie that black is white. Example all of our coaches appointed in the last 18 months have been a success.
Yes Meire is incompetent and is making ridiculous decisions, perhaps if she was replaced matters may improve. They certainly would if a competent replaced her, but we have no guarantees that a competent would replace her.
RD's is not looking for a strong competent CEO to run the club and challenge him where necessary. He wants someone to do as they are told, which is why Meire was appointed.
The same goes for the coach. The criteria for selection is primarily, that they will do as they are told, without question or complaint. Whether they are any good or not seems to be somewhat immaterial.
So where do we go from here ?
I think as long as Meire is still with us, then it is right to attempt dialogue with her.
She is clearly out of her depth and doesn't even appear to know what is going on with regard to some matters. Meire does not want to appear incapable by "leaning on the supporters", but perhaps it is slightly dawning on her.
Meire can clearly do with some better managerial support, which is also sadly lacking.
However, she is deluded if she believes only 2% of the fan base are seriously unhappy. So as well as dialogue we also need to show her and RD that it is not only 2%.
Therefore some sort of action should go ahead at the televised Ipswich game. Something peaceful, a show of unity for those that are unhappy, that will not impinge on others, will not turn violent and will not cause health & safety issues, which concerns some.
The best way, taking into account the above, for the cameras to see this, is for all the supporters who are unhappy to turn their backs on the field of play at an agreed time or enter the stadium late, so we are taking our seats within 5 mins of kick off.
Now I fully back the team and do not want to affect them. So perhaps any back turning should be done when the players have exited the field at half time, as many will not being purchasing food & drink in any case.
NB black & white scarves & balloons are still a good idea as they are visual & a demonstration outside the West is still fine by me.
This, this, this, this. Sadly, I don't think protest actions will change very much. All we'll get is more 'tell them a bit of what they want to hear' meetings from KM & RM and RD will carry on in his own not so merry way.
What we want, when all is said and done, is getting a manager and new players that are going to be competitive in all games and give us a shot, even if it's only an outside shot, of the big time again. That costs money though and it's clear that RD has no intention of spending it.
He wants to prove clubs can be run in a different way. I used to think that surely the motivation any owner of a mid size club in the Championship was to get to the Prem for either an ego fuelled glory trip or a big payday on resale. This bloke however doesn't seem to care about the Premiership so I can only conclude it is a mad experiment (maybe simply a youth product production line) or there is something more unsavoury that we're not aware of.
Best we can hope for is that he gets bored and sells but I don't think he'll be antagonised into it.
Well that was a jolly "talking shop" with lots of first-name use, bonhomie ("tell us about the goal Jacko") and not a lot of substance. The presentation was there to be picked at, for instance "please outline the key objectives over the next five years that will help us meet the strategic targets you have outlined", but all we seemed to get was a glut of questions focusing on operational stuff and things that had obviously been done to death on previous fans' forums. Later there were opportunities to ask about whether £9m on transfers, compared to £1.1m, was reflected on the team's performance and also getting Murray's view on Duchalet's judge of character bearing in mind that his comment about the key relationship in a football club being between the owner and the manager, the former needing to have implicit trust in the latter. Duchalet has sacked three guys he has picked in the last 18 months. Also, If you are going to a meeting with prepared questions, always have a follow-up. The panel was let off the hook on a number of occasions, for instance the initial question about access to the QPR game was allowed to die a death.
In my view the guy that opened from the fans' side of the table set the wrong tone by outlining how the meeting would be run and then asking Katrien what she felt were the fans' main issues. Just tell her. Finally, there were clearly people there with individual agendas, namely; " the Crossbars fiasco has turned my footballing life upside down". Ok, but not for this forum. And then we had "VIPs feel disenfranchised and the club should do something for them". Bollocks, I was a VIP once, felt it was a good deal, was happy to sign-up to it and didn't expect anything once it had concluded.
The upshot was that the panel was never ruffled, one guy said absolutely nothing, Katrien had an easy ride and kept a smile on her face and Murray just sat there playing with his phone. I wasn't there on the night or involved in the process so can't comment on how the fans' side of things was organised and prepared but feel that this was a massive opportunity that was wasted.
The opening question was specifically designed to tell us if the club was able to articulate what the problem was. KM repeated her opening thought that it was all about not knowing the strategy, and RM twice avoided the question entirely.
You may disagree, but I think that's hugely significant. If you cannot define a problem, it makes it pretty tricky to solve it and pretty tricky to be sure it's still solved later on. To me what it betrayed is that they genuinely didn't know the answer, and that speaks of a team trying desperately to be understood but giving nowhere near enough energy to seeking to understand. No wonder supporters feel disenfranchised.
Leaving the soft stuff to one side, if you're running a business and don't know your market you are likely to fail.
We'll have to agree to disagree here. It's a weak question to ask because a smart person wouldn't have answered it. Why risk bringing issues to the table that others may not of thought of? We should have had a focused meeting targeting the key issues and demanding answers but it never happened.
Even better to have your own answer, which is what Murray did - he tried the smart 'different people think different things' and referring to other clubs. KM had already kicked off the meeting by telling us what our problem was, and wasn't comfortable with being pressed.
The smartest answer was to pick up the theme of dialogue, which has been running since the public meeting at the start of the year and was picked up by a Trust survey and the B&W campaign more recently. That was the safe one. If I'd got an answer other than 'I just said something' or 'Keith Downing' I wouldn't have pressed it.
Do you not think that it spoke volumes that they tripped over that question?
Yes, I know people have genuine grievances, but there is currently something distinctly unsavoury about this BB and indeed others. Add to that the embarrassment I felt watching and listening to protesters on Saturday. No problems with "Roland Out", "Miere Out", but when it dropped to gutter level with references to where one might stick the sofa I thought "I'm Off". Add to that the overtly racist anti-Belgian chants and I thought this lot are losing the plot. It had hints of a lynch mob. I've been through thick and thin (more thin than thick, I might add) with Charlton, having followed them loyally for 52 years at all three of their home grounds and I have actively fought many just causes on the fans' behalf, but somehow, the behaviour I witnessed on Saturday, and what I am seeing repeated on many BBs, doesn't quite square with reality. Yes, communications have been poor. No, I don't think Katrien is guilty of deliberately lying, just guilty of being the proverbial "meat in the sandwich". I'm sure Roland has undermined her on more than one occasion and will do so again. I don't think it matters one iota whether it's Katrien or a Varney who is the CEO, ultimately the power resides across the water. For her own peace of mind she may well walk, but her successor will be similarly neutered. Ultimately discontent correlates with results on the pitch. Go on a winning run and play excellent football (which for the first time this season we did on Saturday) and discontent simply evaporates. Return to losing ways and the clamour will return and intensify. All well and good, but where is the Plan B for the board's detractors? Who is going to take over and why? It's my understanding that buyers are currently few and far between at the moment (there are several clubs up for sale, many of which are more attractive than Charlton), so it might be a long time before Roland is dislodged. For all of his faults (and there are many) he has at least kept the club afloat and for that alone I'm grateful, having seen us first hand flirt with extinction in the High Court (saved with 30 minutes to go). I'm sure my views will go down like a lead balloon with many of you, but at least I know I'm not alone in thinking this way. Call us the "silent majority".
A fair enough post.
However I think things have gone too far now. All trust has been shattered and our CEO has very little credibility left.
Appointing Fraeye(however long he is here for) was the straw that broke the camels back for a lot of people.
Excuse my termonology but the Belgians are taking the p*** out of us.
AND I have it on good authority that the Sam Bartram statue is being dismantled and replaced with the Manneken Pis.
NLA I really think the personal abuse aspect has being completely exaggerated. My wife was at the front of the protest, if it was as reported, she wouldn't have stayed there long. Look at the pictures, videos, it is a mix of male, female, young and old. Shirters as you'd call it, and there was never any real edge to it I don't think
People protest because they are angry. When people are angry, some people take it a bit further, that's always the nature of the beast. And when those people are provoked, like she did coming over the Windows, laughing and taking pictures, that is likely to increase the chances of that.
I wasn't there so can't speak with authority, but this all seems to me to have been blown up completely and used as an excuse. Happy to be told otherwise
The problem is though AFKA that one person doing it is over the line, and most importantly it will inevitably get everyone else at the protest associated with it. You're almost certainly right, but as with hooliganism it only takes a few idiots. Is it most people who are violent at demonstrations? And people like @Greenie defending the behaviour encourages people for next time.
The abuse wasn't limited to the protest either, incidentally - it's in her email inbox as well and some of it verging on stepping over a very serious line.
I think she's right to point it out, personally, even if all it achieves is debate among the fan base. She can't realistically hold on to a position that it reflects the majority, but even if it just gives an excuse to reject the protests it's doing a lot of people a disservice at very best.
Were you there? And where did I defend the actions of hooligans? dont try and spin it, thats low. You can delete my name from that. I said if it had been a 60 year old bloke who had laughed and taken picture the abuse would have undoubtedly been worse. If only I had the power to influence peoples behaviour. Ridiculous comment.
Also what about the abuse Simon Jordan got on here or at matches or Alan Pardew or (insert name here).......just because she's a woman, she has to be treated differently, after all that the various women movements have done over the years to be seen as equal as men, how patronising is that?
EDIT, I've probably read more into your post than what you actually said or intended. I'll take your name off that post. I wasn't referring to hooliganism though, my point is that the more that people justify or validate abuse, the more it will happen. What you said was that it was inevitable - that's not quite defending it, I concede.
I wouldn't defend the type of personal abuse we're discussing on anyone. I could probably cope with people calling Pardew old big nose but KM aside there was at least one disgusting racist comment regarding RD hiring Guy Luzon that no-one could defend.
NLA I really think the personal abuse aspect has being completely exaggerated. My wife was at the front of the protest, if it was as reported, she wouldn't have stayed there long. Look at the pictures, videos, it is a mix of male, female, young and old. Shirters as you'd call it, and there was never any real edge to it I don't think
People protest because they are angry. When people are angry, some people take it a bit further, that's always the nature of the beast. And when those people are provoked, like she did coming over the Windows, laughing and taking pictures, that is likely to increase the chances of that.
I wasn't there so can't speak with authority, but this all seems to me to have been blown up completely and used as an excuse. Happy to be told otherwise
The problem is though AFKA that one person doing it is over the line, and most importantly it will inevitably get everyone else at the protest associated with it. You're almost certainly right, but as with hooliganism it only takes a few idiots. Is it most people who are violent at demonstrations? And people like @Greenie defending the behaviour encourages people for next time.
The abuse wasn't limited to the protest either, incidentally - it's in her email inbox as well and some of it verging on stepping over a very serious line.
I think she's right to point it out, personally, even if all it achieves is debate among the fan base. She can't realistically hold on to a position that it reflects the majority, but even if it just gives an excuse to reject the protests it's doing a lot of people a disservice at very best.
Were you there? And where did I defend the actions of hooligans? dont try and spin it, thats low. You can delete my name from that. I said if it had been a 60 year old bloke who had laughed and taken picture the abuse would have undoubtedly been worse. If only I had the power to influence peoples behaviour. Ridiculous comment.
Also what about the abuse Simon Jordan got on here or at matches or Alan Pardew or (insert name here).......just because she's a woman, she has to be treated differently, after all that the various women movements have done over the years to be seen as equal as men, how patronising is that?
You did defend the behaviour at the protest though @Greenie and that's what I was referring to, not hooliganism. And my point is that the more that people justify or validate it, the more it will happen.
I wouldn't defend the type of personal abuse we're discussing on anyone. I could probably cope with people calling Pardew old big nose but KM aside there was at least one disgusting racist comment regarding RD hiring Guy Luzon that no-one could defend.
But typically to emphasise your point you put my name after you mentioned hooliganism, which takes it to another level, and that is low. I noticed that you never answered my question, which was, were you there?
NLA I really think the personal abuse aspect has being completely exaggerated. My wife was at the front of the protest, if it was as reported, she wouldn't have stayed there long. Look at the pictures, videos, it is a mix of male, female, young and old. Shirters as you'd call it, and there was never any real edge to it I don't think
People protest because they are angry. When people are angry, some people take it a bit further, that's always the nature of the beast. And when those people are provoked, like she did coming over the Windows, laughing and taking pictures, that is likely to increase the chances of that.
I wasn't there so can't speak with authority, but this all seems to me to have been blown up completely and used as an excuse. Happy to be told otherwise
The problem is though AFKA that one person doing it is over the line, and most importantly it will inevitably get everyone else at the protest associated with it. You're almost certainly right, but as with hooliganism it only takes a few idiots. Is it most people who are violent at demonstrations? And people like @Greenie defending the behaviour encourages people for next time.
The abuse wasn't limited to the protest either, incidentally - it's in her email inbox as well and some of it verging on stepping over a very serious line.
I think she's right to point it out, personally, even if all it achieves is debate among the fan base. She can't realistically hold on to a position that it reflects the majority, but even if it just gives an excuse to reject the protests it's doing a lot of people a disservice at very best.
Were you there? And where did I defend the actions of hooligans? dont try and spin it, thats low. You can delete my name from that. I said if it had been a 60 year old bloke who had laughed and taken picture the abuse would have undoubtedly been worse. If only I had the power to influence peoples behaviour. Ridiculous comment.
Also what about the abuse Simon Jordan got on here or at matches or Alan Pardew or (insert name here).......just because she's a woman, she has to be treated differently, after all that the various women movements have done over the years to be seen as equal as men, how patronising is that?
You did defend the behaviour at the protest though @Greenie and that's what I was referring to, not hooliganism. And my point is that the more that people justify or validate it, the more it will happen.
I wouldn't defend the type of personal abuse we're discussing on anyone. I could probably cope with people calling Pardew old big nose but KM aside there was at least one disgusting racist comment regarding RD hiring Guy Luzon that no-one could defend.
But typically to emphasise your point you put my name after you mentioned hooliganism, which takes it to another level, and that is low. I noticed that you never answered my question, which was, were you there?
I said beforehand I wasn't going to join the protest.
I'm not sure how we get RD out...but I'll happily support anything that embarrasses him and causes him inconvenience, which is exactly what he has caused us as fans over the past two years.
NLA I really think the personal abuse aspect has being completely exaggerated. My wife was at the front of the protest, if it was as reported, she wouldn't have stayed there long. Look at the pictures, videos, it is a mix of male, female, young and old. Shirters as you'd call it, and there was never any real edge to it I don't think
People protest because they are angry. When people are angry, some people take it a bit further, that's always the nature of the beast. And when those people are provoked, like she did coming over the Windows, laughing and taking pictures, that is likely to increase the chances of that.
I wasn't there so can't speak with authority, but this all seems to me to have been blown up completely and used as an excuse. Happy to be told otherwise
The problem is though AFKA that one person doing it is over the line, and most importantly it will inevitably get everyone else at the protest associated with it. You're almost certainly right, but as with hooliganism it only takes a few idiots. Is it most people who are violent at demonstrations? And people like @Greenie defending the behaviour encourages people for next time.
The abuse wasn't limited to the protest either, incidentally - it's in her email inbox as well and some of it verging on stepping over a very serious line.
I think she's right to point it out, personally, even if all it achieves is debate among the fan base. She can't realistically hold on to a position that it reflects the majority, but even if it just gives an excuse to reject the protests it's doing a lot of people a disservice at very best.
Were you there? And where did I defend the actions of hooligans? dont try and spin it, thats low. You can delete my name from that. I said if it had been a 60 year old bloke who had laughed and taken picture the abuse would have undoubtedly been worse. If only I had the power to influence peoples behaviour. Ridiculous comment.
Also what about the abuse Simon Jordan got on here or at matches or Alan Pardew or (insert name here).......just because she's a woman, she has to be treated differently, after all that the various women movements have done over the years to be seen as equal as men, how patronising is that?
You did defend the behaviour at the protest though @Greenie and that's what I was referring to, not hooliganism. And my point is that the more that people justify or validate it, the more it will happen.
I wouldn't defend the type of personal abuse we're discussing on anyone. I could probably cope with people calling Pardew old big nose but KM aside there was at least one disgusting racist comment regarding RD hiring Guy Luzon that no-one could defend.
But typically to emphasise your point you put my name after you mentioned hooliganism, which takes it to another level, and that is low. I noticed that you never answered my question, which was, were you there?
I said beforehand I wasn't going to join the protest.
And there you have it.........not there, people give up their time to make a peaceful protest, and all we get is a bloody negative opinion from a no show.....
Yes, I know people have genuine grievances, but there is currently something distinctly unsavoury about this BB and indeed others. Add to that the embarrassment I felt watching and listening to protesters on Saturday. No problems with "Roland Out", "Miere Out", but when it dropped to gutter level with references to where one might stick the sofa I thought "I'm Off". Add to that the overtly racist anti-Belgian chants and I thought this lot are losing the plot. It had hints of a lynch mob. I've been through thick and thin (more thin than thick, I might add) with Charlton, having followed them loyally for 52 years at all three of their home grounds and I have actively fought many just causes on the fans' behalf, but somehow, the behaviour I witnessed on Saturday, and what I am seeing repeated on many BBs, doesn't quite square with reality. Yes, communications have been poor. No, I don't think Katrien is guilty of deliberately lying, just guilty of being the proverbial "meat in the sandwich". I'm sure Roland has undermined her on more than one occasion and will do so again. I don't think it matters one iota whether it's Katrien or a Varney who is the CEO, ultimately the power resides across the water. For her own peace of mind she may well walk, but her successor will be similarly neutered. Ultimately discontent correlates with results on the pitch. Go on a winning run and play excellent football (which for the first time this season we did on Saturday) and discontent simply evaporates. Return to losing ways and the clamour will return and intensify. All well and good, but where is the Plan B for the board's detractors? Who is going to take over and why? It's my understanding that buyers are currently few and far between at the moment (there are several clubs up for sale, many of which are more attractive than Charlton), so it might be a long time before Roland is dislodged. For all of his faults (and there are many) he has at least kept the club afloat and for that alone I'm grateful, having seen us first hand flirt with extinction in the High Court (saved with 30 minutes to go). I'm sure my views will go down like a lead balloon with many of you, but at least I know I'm not alone in thinking this way. Call us the "silent majority".
A fair enough post.
However I think things have gone too far now. All trust has been shattered and our CEO has very little credibility left.
Appointing Fraeye(however long he is here for) was the straw that broke the camels back for a lot of people.
Excuse my termonology but the Belgians are taking the p*** out of us.
AND I have it on good authority that the Sam Bartram statue is being dismantled and replaced with the Manneken Pis.
NLA I really think the personal abuse aspect has being completely exaggerated. My wife was at the front of the protest, if it was as reported, she wouldn't have stayed there long. Look at the pictures, videos, it is a mix of male, female, young and old. Shirters as you'd call it, and there was never any real edge to it I don't think
People protest because they are angry. When people are angry, some people take it a bit further, that's always the nature of the beast. And when those people are provoked, like she did coming over the Windows, laughing and taking pictures, that is likely to increase the chances of that.
I wasn't there so can't speak with authority, but this all seems to me to have been blown up completely and used as an excuse. Happy to be told otherwise
Accept it was a handful. But that handful undermined the point being made by the rest because they have given her an excuse (as if she needed one) to play the sexist/abuse card and there are plenty who will seize on that to dismiss the protest as being by a few disgruntled yobs. We have to step up the volume and voracity of the protests BUT at all times keep them from being abusive. It's often more successful to mock targets than yell abuse at them
@Greenie, not criticising anyone for going, I explained my reasons for not being there, but my criticism is for those who can't control themselves and give excuse to deflect from the real reasons of the protest
NLA I really think the personal abuse aspect has being completely exaggerated. My wife was at the front of the protest, if it was as reported, she wouldn't have stayed there long. Look at the pictures, videos, it is a mix of male, female, young and old. Shirters as you'd call it, and there was never any real edge to it I don't think
People protest because they are angry. When people are angry, some people take it a bit further, that's always the nature of the beast. And when those people are provoked, like she did coming over the Windows, laughing and taking pictures, that is likely to increase the chances of that.
I wasn't there so can't speak with authority, but this all seems to me to have been blown up completely and used as an excuse. Happy to be told otherwise
The problem is though AFKA that one person doing it is over the line, and most importantly it will inevitably get everyone else at the protest associated with it. You're almost certainly right, but as with hooliganism it only takes a few idiots. Is it most people who are violent at demonstrations? And people like @Greenie defending the behaviour encourages people for next time.
The abuse wasn't limited to the protest either, incidentally - it's in her email inbox as well and some of it verging on stepping over a very serious line.
I think she's right to point it out, personally, even if all it achieves is debate among the fan base. She can't realistically hold on to a position that it reflects the majority, but even if it just gives an excuse to reject the protests it's doing a lot of people a disservice at very best.
Were you there? And where did I defend the actions of hooligans? dont try and spin it, thats low. You can delete my name from that. I said if it had been a 60 year old bloke who had laughed and taken picture the abuse would have undoubtedly been worse. If only I had the power to influence peoples behaviour. Ridiculous comment.
Also what about the abuse Simon Jordan got on here or at matches or Alan Pardew or (insert name here).......just because she's a woman, she has to be treated differently, after all that the various women movements have done over the years to be seen as equal as men, how patronising is that?
You did defend the behaviour at the protest though @Greenie and that's what I was referring to, not hooliganism. And my point is that the more that people justify or validate it, the more it will happen.
I wouldn't defend the type of personal abuse we're discussing on anyone. I could probably cope with people calling Pardew old big nose but KM aside there was at least one disgusting racist comment regarding RD hiring Guy Luzon that no-one could defend.
But typically to emphasise your point you put my name after you mentioned hooliganism, which takes it to another level, and that is low. I noticed that you never answered my question, which was, were you there?
NLA I really think the personal abuse aspect has being completely exaggerated. My wife was at the front of the protest, if it was as reported, she wouldn't have stayed there long. Look at the pictures, videos, it is a mix of male, female, young and old. Shirters as you'd call it, and there was never any real edge to it I don't think
People protest because they are angry. When people are angry, some people take it a bit further, that's always the nature of the beast. And when those people are provoked, like she did coming over the Windows, laughing and taking pictures, that is likely to increase the chances of that.
I wasn't there so can't speak with authority, but this all seems to me to have been blown up completely and used as an excuse. Happy to be told otherwise
Accept it was a handful. But that handful undermined the point being made by the rest because they have given her an excuse (as if she needed one) to play the sexist/abuse card and there are plenty who will seize on that to dismiss the protest as being by a few disgruntled yobs. We have to step up the volume and voracity of the protests BUT at all times keep them from being abusive. It's often more successful to mock targets than yell abuse at them
Exactly my point, in these scenarios taking away any focus from the objective weakens the campaign, it needs cleaning up from here on in then no one can pass a negative on it
My impression FWIW is that the Trust did their best, but as I have found at VIP meetings it is very hard to keep probing each answer received to put those on the top table on the spot. There is pressure to move on as you have "had your turn" and ME is next to you wanting to take the mic back. What is really needed is a 1-1 meeting between the Trust and the club, with an agreed agenda in advance.
After the last VIP my mate, a very successful businessman, spoke to Katrien and told her that she needed to change her demeanour and attitude - it was no good her getting defensive every time someone was providing a view or opinion which was different to hers. Obviously she failed to reflect on that advice and we saw more of the same on Tuesday evening.
To me she is a lovely lady, who has fallen in love with the club and wants to do her very best in her role. Unfortunately, through no fault of her own, she has been thrust into the role with no previous experience and I genuinely hate to say it but she is out of her comfort zone and not up to the task.
She will need supporting if we are to rebuild our club up again, so I hope the Trust grasp the nettle and very quickly provide her with the names of fans who can do a good job on target 20,000. I shall still be protesting, but we also need to build up a rapport to convince her that the perceived negative fans are actually what all staff/customers are - ie the clubs best asset.
Finally @JohnBoyUK , I don't know you but your comments above touched a nerve. If ever we get introduced, I owe you a drink. Still hate Spurs though:)
"A lovely lady that has fallen in love with the club".
My impression FWIW is that the Trust did their best, but as I have found at VIP meetings it is very hard to keep probing each answer received to put those on the top table on the spot. There is pressure to move on as you have "had your turn" and ME is next to you wanting to take the mic back. What is really needed is a 1-1 meeting between the Trust and the club, with an agreed agenda in advance.
After the last VIP my mate, a very successful businessman, spoke to Katrien and told her that she needed to change her demeanour and attitude - it was no good her getting defensive every time someone was providing a view or opinion which was different to hers. Obviously she failed to reflect on that advice and we saw more of the same on Tuesday evening.
To me she is a lovely lady, who has fallen in love with the club and wants to do her very best in her role. Unfortunately, through no fault of her own, she has been thrust into the role with no previous experience and I genuinely hate to say it but she is out of her comfort zone and not up to the task.
She will need supporting if we are to rebuild our club up again, so I hope the Trust grasp the nettle and very quickly provide her with the names of fans who can do a good job on target 20,000. I shall still be protesting, but we also need to build up a rapport to convince her that the perceived negative fans are actually what all staff/customers are - ie the clubs best asset.
Finally @JohnBoyUK , I don't know you but your comments above touched a nerve. If ever we get introduced, I owe you a drink. Still hate Spurs though:)
"A lovely lady that has fallen in love with the club".
To me she is a lovely lady, who has fallen in love with the club and wants to do her very best in her role. Unfortunately, through no fault of her own, she has been thrust into the role with no previous experience and I genuinely hate to say it but she is out of her comfort zone and not up to the task.
Call off the protests. She's a lovely lady. Judging by what she has said, not only is she unfit for purpose, she has a nasty streak as well.
She may, however, be lovely. But I don't want a lovely lady flying the plane I am on. I want a trained pilot who is damned good at their job. If they are a bastard on the side, I can live with it.
One important fact in all of this. While I am no accountant, I'd bet that while the club is undoubtedly on a firmer financial footing than pre-RD, it is thus to a large degree because he has structured our debt/used the Staprix offset possibilities to major advantage. At the point where he gets fed up you can bet your last waffle that it will be restructured to his advantage, not the Clubs. Our underlying financial position is brittle. RD is investing but in a way that potentially heaps debt on the club. Any potential buyer will know that. Long haul ahead folks.
PS. I stand to be corrected by those more financially literate than me and I apologise if I do RD a disservice.
If men call men abusive names then I can understand it, if it was just female supporters being so personal with her I could understand it, Right now I can't
If she was English would she be called an English bitch no she wouldn't
If she was black and people started calling her a black bitch would it be accepted as fine
The minute the abuse moves in that direction then the points valid or not are lost,
I don't buy into the whole pc brigade bullshit but this is so blatent racism and sexism I am surprised it's been allowed on here Tbf
Racism??? When and how?
Tbh (and not that I personally would) I don't see shouting Belgians out, get the Belgian ***** out as an issue. It's not get them out BECAUSE they are Belgian - it's just a descriptive way of making it more personal. If things were going great and we had a song about her/them which made reference to them being Belgian I'm 100% sure it wouldn't be a problem.
I'm not saying the above is pleasant but let's not get carried away in beating ourselves up over a bit of abuse that others would get far worse.
One important fact in all of this. While I am no accountant, I'd bet that while the club is undoubtedly on a firmer financial footing than pre-RD, it is thus to a large degree because he has structured our debt/used the Staprix offset possibilities to major advantage. At the point where he gets fed up you can bet your last waffle that it will be restructured to his advantage, not the Clubs. Our underlying financial position is brittle. RD is investing but in a way that potentially heaps debt on the club. Any potential buyer will know that. Long haul ahead folks.
PS. I stand to be corrected by those more financially literate than me and I apologise if I do RD a disservice.
One important fact in all of this. While I am no accountant, I'd bet that while the club is undoubtedly on a firmer financial footing than pre-RD, it is thus to a large degree because he has structured our debt/used the Staprix offset possibilities to major advantage. At the point where he gets fed up you can bet your last waffle that it will be restructured to his advantage, not the Clubs. Our underlying financial position is brittle. RD is investing but in a way that potentially heaps debt on the club. Any potential buyer will know that. Long haul ahead folks.
PS. I stand to be corrected by those more financially literate than me and I apologise if I do RD a disservice.
I think this is a really good post. At some point in the year the financials usually come out. I know they're retrospective, I also know I can't make head nor tail of them. However there are posters here and elsewhere who are pretty good translating it to a more understandable format, and making educated gueses at any missing bits. I wonder what the next lot of stuff might reveal.
The meeting on Tuesday has succeeded in its aims, the supporters have taken to the forums to argue amongst themselves, just as I warned about a couple of weeks ago. While you are all arguing at each other, RD/KM/RM have respite from an all out attack (verbally, of course) on them. Surely the main aim is for supporters to get together against the board, not each other
Much, if not all, of RD'S investment is in the form of debt, and he charges interest on it. Can't remember exact figures off top of my head, but something like £40M at 3% ie over £1M interest.
If men call men abusive names then I can understand it, if it was just female supporters being so personal with her I could understand it, Right now I can't
If she was English would she be called an English bitch no she wouldn't
If she was black and people started calling her a black bitch would it be accepted as fine
The minute the abuse moves in that direction then the points valid or not are lost,
I don't buy into the whole pc brigade bullshit but this is so blatent racism and sexism I am surprised it's been allowed on here Tbf
Racism??? When and how?
Tbh (and not that I personally would) I don't see shouting Belgians out, get the Belgian ***** out as an issue. It's not get them out BECAUSE they are Belgian - it's just a descriptive way of making it more personal. If things were going great and we had a song about her/them which made reference to them being Belgian I'm 100% sure it wouldn't be a problem.
I'm not saying the above is pleasant but let's not get carried away in beating ourselves up over a bit of abuse that others would get far worse.
In a different set of circumstances, change the word Belgian to black, lesbian or Jewish (any of which could be fact in that different set of circumstances) and see how you get on.
Comments
The only way Is to continue protests and someone from within the protest group try and find a consortium or consortiums to buy him out, as I stated three days ago these were few and far between when looking last time,
My point you quoted is merely suggesting that even if you get rid of KM another will be found and the same issues will remain, this is RD's rules not km that the club are playing to
What we want, when all is said and done, is getting a manager and new players that are going to be competitive in all games and give us a shot, even if it's only an outside shot, of the big time again. That costs money though and it's clear that RD has no intention of spending it.
He wants to prove clubs can be run in a different way. I used to think that surely the motivation any owner of a mid size club in the Championship was to get to the Prem for either an ego fuelled glory trip or a big payday on resale. This bloke however doesn't seem to care about the Premiership so I can only conclude it is a mad experiment (maybe simply a youth product production line) or there is something more unsavoury that we're not aware of.
Best we can hope for is that he gets bored and sells but I don't think he'll be antagonised into it.
The smartest answer was to pick up the theme of dialogue, which has been running since the public meeting at the start of the year and was picked up by a Trust survey and the B&W campaign more recently. That was the safe one. If I'd got an answer other than 'I just said something' or 'Keith Downing' I wouldn't have pressed it.
Do you not think that it spoke volumes that they tripped over that question?
I wouldn't defend the type of personal abuse we're discussing on anyone. I could probably cope with people calling Pardew old big nose but KM aside there was at least one disgusting racist comment regarding RD hiring Guy Luzon that no-one could defend.
I noticed that you never answered my question, which was, were you there?
After his foray into politics let's make that 'yet another mad experiment'
@Greenie, not criticising anyone for going, I explained my reasons for not being there, but my criticism is for those who can't control themselves and give excuse to deflect from the real reasons of the protest
I think a lot of p "A lovely lady that has fallen in love with the club".
I think a lot of people will disagree with that.
She may, however, be lovely. But I don't want a lovely lady flying the plane I am on. I want a trained pilot who is damned good at their job. If they are a bastard on the side, I can live with it.
PS. I stand to be corrected by those more financially literate than me and I apologise if I do RD a disservice.
Tbh (and not that I personally would) I don't see shouting Belgians out, get the Belgian ***** out as an issue. It's not get them out BECAUSE they are Belgian - it's just a descriptive way of making it more personal. If things were going great and we had a song about her/them which made reference to them being Belgian I'm 100% sure it wouldn't be a problem.
I'm not saying the above is pleasant but let's not get carried away in beating ourselves up over a bit of abuse that others would get far worse.
I wonder what the next lot of stuff might reveal.