Protest as loud and aggressively within the confides of law, and then no one can complain, in fact Imo it's a healthy situation to have fans prepared to sacrifice time and effort to be heard
Agreed and I would estimate that 98% of those who protested before the Sheff Wed game did so.
May I add a far larger percentage than you would find at most other clubs in our position.
Just skim watched. So many comments to make but I thought @rikofold and @seth plum were brilliant last night along especially with John C from East Kent and Ian W. And a few others.
Seth your second speech was great. Why I reported it so crap will haunt me. I was crap at the details but you guys did great.
No we didn't snarl and shout. Everyone just put their point across. I think that's better than screaming.
I'm sure loads of you will feel different. But your turn next time ?
Thank you Curb_it, seems a lot easier reading your notes than watching the video, by other comments on here
You only have to read on here Dan, Belgian bitch this, Belgian that, I have read, whoare although that was edited out pretty sharp, I am not for one min suggesting the bulk of the protesters were doing it, but there's a % that are Imo treading a thin line on here let alone when in a group,
If you all want change and a valid protest police yourselves and remove the % from being the most memorable aspect,
The anger needs channelling, it's good to have the emotions but you don't win like that you don't win the support of others who don't agree, you don't win the number swelling fans that can make 2-5% into 20-30% because they don't like to be in that atmosphere
And you lose the opportunity to put across your point, someone will cross the line, it will be policed and we both know the min the ob step in to remove someone who has crossed the line the next reaction won't be peaceful from the remaining section of the protesters who are pals of the one idiot who did it.
NLA I really think the personal abuse aspect has being completely exaggerated. My wife was at the front of the protest, if it was as reported, she wouldn't have stayed there long. Look at the pictures, videos, it is a mix of male, female, young and old. Shirters as you'd call it, and there was never any real edge to it I don't think
People protest because they are angry. When people are angry, some people take it a bit further, that's always the nature of the beast. And when those people are provoked, like she did coming over the Windows, laughing and taking pictures, that is likely to increase the chances of that.
I wasn't there so can't speak with authority, but this all seems to me to have been blown up completely and used as an excuse. Happy to be told otherwise
NLA I really think the personal abuse aspect has being completely exaggerated. My wife was at the front of the protest, if it was as reported, she wouldn't have stayed there long. Look at the pictures, videos, it is a mix of male, female, young and old. Shirters as you'd call it, and there was never any real edge to it I don't think
People protest because they are angry. When people are angry, some people take it a bit further, that's always the nature of the beast. And when those people are provoked, like she did coming over the Windows, laughing and taking pictures, that is likely to increase the chances of that.
I wasn't there so can't speak with authority, but this all seems to me to have been blown up completely and used as an excuse. Happy to be told otherwise
I agree AFKA, and again its all being questioned by people who weren't there, I was, and the small amount of abuse she got was engineered by her apparent inability to understand a situation, which could be seen as a microcosm of how she is running our club.
Yet as someone who wasn't there and have used here to gauge an opinion, get the impression that it wasn't like that, is that not detrimental to the objective
NLA I really think the personal abuse aspect has being completely exaggerated. My wife was at the front of the protest, if it was as reported, she wouldn't have stayed there long. Look at the pictures, videos, it is a mix of male, female, young and old. Shirters as you'd call it, and there was never any real edge to it I don't think
People protest because they are angry. When people are angry, some people take it a bit further, that's always the nature of the beast. And when those people are provoked, like she did coming over the Windows, laughing and taking pictures, that is likely to increase the chances of that.
I wasn't there so can't speak with authority, but this all seems to me to have been blown up completely and used as an excuse. Happy to be told otherwise
The problem is though AFKA that one person doing it is over the line, and most importantly it will inevitably get everyone else at the protest associated with it. You're almost certainly right, but as with hooliganism it only takes a few idiots. Is it most people who are violent at demonstrations? And people defending the behaviour encourages people for next time.
The abuse wasn't limited to the protest either, incidentally - it's in her email inbox as well and some of it verging on stepping over a very serious line.
I think she's right to point it out, personally, even if all it achieves is debate among the fan base. She can't realistically hold on to a position that it reflects the majority, but even if it just gives an excuse to reject the protests it's doing a lot of people a disservice at very best.
Summed up perfectly, it doesn't not take long for mob mentality to set in during highly charged atmosphere, 1 can become 10, then 10-20,
When we as at orient and I challenged the guy singing the monkey in the tree song about Lisbie, within the ten seconds It took me to get over to him, All his mates had found the bollox to follow as they felt safe to do so,
It's a prime example of why it needs to be policed from the fans by the fans and not excepted, no one got nicked that night no one had to tell the ob even though they asked numerous times,
It needs to no longer be allowed, surely that part of the anger and emotion is out now,
NLA I really think the personal abuse aspect has being completely exaggerated. My wife was at the front of the protest, if it was as reported, she wouldn't have stayed there long. Look at the pictures, videos, it is a mix of male, female, young and old. Shirters as you'd call it, and there was never any real edge to it I don't think
People protest because they are angry. When people are angry, some people take it a bit further, that's always the nature of the beast. And when those people are provoked, like she did coming over the Windows, laughing and taking pictures, that is likely to increase the chances of that.
I wasn't there so can't speak with authority, but this all seems to me to have been blown up completely and used as an excuse. Happy to be told otherwise
The problem is though AFKA that one person doing it is over the line, and most importantly it will inevitably get everyone else at the protest associated with it. You're almost certainly right, but as with hooliganism it only takes a few idiots. Is it most people who are violent at demonstrations? And people like @Greenie defending the behaviour encourages people for next time.
The abuse wasn't limited to the protest either, incidentally - it's in her email inbox as well and some of it verging on stepping over a very serious line.
I think she's right to point it out, personally, even if all it achieves is debate among the fan base. She can't realistically hold on to a position that it reflects the majority, but even if it just gives an excuse to reject the protests it's doing a lot of people a disservice at very best.
Were you there? And where did I defend the actions of hooligans? dont try and spin it, thats low. You can delete my name from that. I said if it had been a 60 year old bloke who had laughed and taken picture the abuse would have undoubtedly been worse. If only I had the power to influence peoples behaviour. Ridiculous comment.
Also what about the abuse Simon Jordan got on here or at matches or Alan Pardew or (insert name here).......just because she's a woman, she has to be treated differently, after all that the various women movements have done over the years to be seen as equal as men, how patronising is that?
NLA I really think the personal abuse aspect has being completely exaggerated. My wife was at the front of the protest, if it was as reported, she wouldn't have stayed there long. Look at the pictures, videos, it is a mix of male, female, young and old. Shirters as you'd call it, and there was never any real edge to it I don't think
People protest because they are angry. When people are angry, some people take it a bit further, that's always the nature of the beast. And when those people are provoked, like she did coming over the Windows, laughing and taking pictures, that is likely to increase the chances of that.
I wasn't there so can't speak with authority, but this all seems to me to have been blown up completely and used as an excuse. Happy to be told otherwise
Your wife was standing just to my right and what you say is correct.
Yet as someone who wasn't there and have used here to gauge an opinion, get the impression that it wasn't like that, is that not detrimental to the objective
Have you watched the video of the demo ? Presumably not.
More like I speak up and say what I think, I have not shouted down or spoke down to anyone,
For example greenie and myself agree on many things on here, but if he thought I was wrong he can tell me so without me being offended or needing someone to defend me
Unfortunately people like you love to try to troll good people like me, but I have learned to mute you and not give you the conversation your sad life craves
NLA I really think the personal abuse aspect has being completely exaggerated. My wife was at the front of the protest, if it was as reported, she wouldn't have stayed there long. Look at the pictures, videos, it is a mix of male, female, young and old. Shirters as you'd call it, and there was never any real edge to it I don't think
People protest because they are angry. When people are angry, some people take it a bit further, that's always the nature of the beast. And when those people are provoked, like she did coming over the Windows, laughing and taking pictures, that is likely to increase the chances of that.
I wasn't there so can't speak with authority, but this all seems to me to have been blown up completely and used as an excuse. Happy to be told otherwise
Did you not hear the abuse being banded about on the video posted by Charlton Choice TV?
She is told 'F*** off you Belgian c***' in that video a few times. It's not acceptable in front of kids. It's not acceptable behaviour to a normal human being trying to do their job. (Unless they're a referee... oh wait they're not normal)
The comments regarding her taking a picture have been ridiculous also.
More like I speak up and say what I think, I have not shouted down or spoke down to anyone,
For example greenie and myself agree on many things on here, but if he thought I was wrong he can tell me so without me being offended or needing someone to defend me
Unfortunately people like you love to try to troll good people like me, but I have learned to mute you and not give you the conversation your sad life craves
You dominated the Woolwich Hall thread with sh1t stirring, and months later you’re in here doing the same without any evidence. It’s a bit weird really.
Yet as someone who wasn't there and have used here to gauge an opinion, get the impression that it wasn't like that, is that not detrimental to the objective
Have you watched the video of the demo ? Presumably not.
Yes I have and I thought it was conducted well, but I wouldn't for one min think that the video showed everyones reactions,
However reading the stuff on twitter and on here it's quote obvious that some of those that took part didn't want to choose the same path,
It's there for all to see in the posts across this and other platforms,
But if people think a % no matter how small is helpful to the cause then that's their choice
The last few inserts emphasise how this whole procedure does more harm than good. Too many words, too much oral gesticulation leading to an incoherent and jumbled arena where the fans and their various little groups are diverted into scoring points against each other. My view is that KM was neither brilliant nor awful; that wishing for the owner himself to take a more direct part may not be either achievable or that clever. Just look at some clubs' fans and managers who would have loved it if their owner had interfered less. The Km and Roland out stance is idiotic, in that it is meaningless and pointless. Owners only leave when they are a willing seller and there is a willing buyer at hand at the right price. If there is to be a protest (or better a movement for change ) it should be for short concise aims that might actually be achieved. Maybe for the club through its CEO to make a firm announcement that it will seek a credible manager suitable for an ambitious Championship club (even if those ambitions are long term), who will be supported by a moderate investment to improve the squad and be given sufficient time to make a proper impact.
And then not divert from this aim or water it down by involving other issues
Found the body language of RM interesting throughout. His facial expressions when KM was putting her foot in it was particularly revealing. I am not sure he is as "on board" with the whole RD concept as he may proclaim.
Agree he did look a tad pissed off on more then one ocassion.
RD won't change his main aim, as that is his only reason for buying Charlton. His main aim is to see if he can run Charlton at break even ie without losing money.
This is a laudable, but a deluded aim. It just may have proved successful, if all the other teams were competing on a level playing field. However, FFP is no longer working towards all the other clubs also breaking even. Clubs can lose up to £13M per season and £45M over 3 seasons. Many clubs, rightly or wrongly will be throwing far more money into their squads than us. Most fans suspected the football league would back track, yet RD who is apparently cleverer than anyone else, did not see this coming. Extremely poor judgement IMO.
The most likely scenario of us breaking even whilst many other clubs spend millions more, is that we will be relegated, like Blackpool and Yeovil most recently.
In order to maintain this aim RD must have a CEO and coach that will back him come what may. The vast majority of competent CEO's and coaches would not.
We are therefore left with a CEO in name only. The CEO cannot answer any searching questions honestly, because she either has to admit that the strategy is flawed and will never work, in which case she will be fired, or has to lie that black is white. Example, her stating that all of our coaches, appointed in the last 18 months, have been a success.
Yes Meire is incompetent and is making ridiculous decisions, perhaps if she was replaced matters may improve. They certainly would if a competent replaced her, but we have no guarantees that a competent would replace her.
RD's is not looking for a strong competent CEO to run the club and challenge him where necessary. He wants someone to do as they are told, which is why Meire was appointed.
The same goes for the coach. The criteria for selection is primarily, that they will do as they are told, without question or complaint. Whether they are any good or not seems to be somewhat immaterial.
So where do we go from here ?
I think as long as Meire is still with us, then it is right to attempt dialogue with her.
She is clearly out of her depth and doesn't even appear to know what is going on with regard to some matters. Meire does not want to appear incapable by "leaning on the supporters", but perhaps it is slightly dawning on her that she must.
Meire can clearly do with some better managerial support, which is also sadly lacking.
However, she is deluded if she believes only 2% of the fan base are seriously unhappy. So as well as dialogue we also need to show her and RD that it is not only 2%.
Therefore some sort of action should go ahead at the televised Ipswich game. Something peaceful, a show of unity for those that are unhappy, that will not impinge on others, will not turn violent and will not cause health & safety issues, which concerns some.
The best way, taking into account the above, for the cameras to see this, is for all the supporters who are unhappy to turn their backs on the field of play at an agreed time or enter the stadium late, so we are taking our seats within 5 mins of kick off.
Now I fully back the team and do not want to affect them. So perhaps any back turning should be done when the players have exited the field at half time, as many will not being purchasing food & drink in any case.
NB black & white scarves & balloons are still a good idea as they are visual & a demonstration outside the West is still fine by me.
I wish I had his money and I would not run the club how he has, but I don't personally think all he has done has been rotten and bad, as such I don't feel the need to support the protesters, however I do support their right to do so, I support the fact many are willing to do something, I just wish that if it's going to be done that they are clear on what they want,how they express it stays focused, and they unify and unite as one body, not splinter groups and that regardless what the near future holds on the pitch that an upturn in results doesn't show that the points away from the pitch need sorting regardless
I totally agree that not everything that RD has done is awful. He has got some things terribly wrong though. The thin squad and inability to pick a good manager are the two most obvious and worrying. I actually think that if he had told us up front what his ideas were and that it might be a bumpy ride (apologies to HI) I think he would have carried most of us with him. Critical time for him now. He can claw it back still but unless he gets us onside he's up against it.
Comments
If you all want change and a valid protest police yourselves and remove the % from being the most memorable aspect,
The anger needs channelling, it's good to have the emotions but you don't win like that you don't win the support of others who don't agree, you don't win the number swelling fans that can make 2-5% into 20-30% because they don't like to be in that atmosphere
And you lose the opportunity to put across your point, someone will cross the line, it will be policed and we both know the min the ob step in to remove someone who has crossed the line the next reaction won't be peaceful from the remaining section of the protesters who are pals of the one idiot who did it.
There is too much of it
The abuse wasn't limited to the protest either, incidentally - it's in her email inbox as well and some of it verging on stepping over a very serious line.
I think she's right to point it out, personally, even if all it achieves is debate among the fan base. She can't realistically hold on to a position that it reflects the majority, but even if it just gives an excuse to reject the protests it's doing a lot of people a disservice at very best.
Clubs that break even in The Championship get relegated.
When we as at orient and I challenged the guy singing the monkey in the tree song about Lisbie, within the ten seconds It took me to get over to him, All his mates had found the bollox to follow as they felt safe to do so,
It's a prime example of why it needs to be policed from the fans by the fans and not excepted, no one got nicked that night no one had to tell the ob even though they asked numerous times,
It needs to no longer be allowed, surely that part of the anger and emotion is out now,
And where did I defend the actions of hooligans? dont try and spin it, thats low. You can delete my name from that. I said if it had been a 60 year old bloke who had laughed and taken picture the abuse would have undoubtedly been worse.
If only I had the power to influence peoples behaviour. Ridiculous comment.
Also what about the abuse Simon Jordan got on here or at matches or Alan Pardew or (insert name here).......just because she's a woman, she has to be treated differently, after all that the various women movements have done over the years to be seen as equal as men, how patronising is that?
More like I speak up and say what I think, I have not shouted down or spoke down to anyone,
For example greenie and myself agree on many things on here, but if he thought I was wrong he can tell me so without me being offended or needing someone to defend me
Unfortunately people like you love to try to troll good people like me, but I have learned to mute you and not give you the conversation your sad life craves
Dicks.
She is told 'F*** off you Belgian c***' in that video a few times. It's not acceptable in front of kids. It's not acceptable behaviour to a normal human being trying to do their job. (Unless they're a referee... oh wait they're not normal)
The comments regarding her taking a picture have been ridiculous also.
I’ll ignore the personal dig.
However reading the stuff on twitter and on here it's quote obvious that some of those that took part didn't want to choose the same path,
It's there for all to see in the posts across this and other platforms,
But if people think a % no matter how small is helpful to the cause then that's their choice
https://www.facebook.com/Charlton-Athletic-Choice-Tv-274569197865/
One of the videos is here:
My view is that KM was neither brilliant nor awful; that wishing for the owner himself to take a more direct part may not be either achievable or that clever. Just look at some clubs' fans and managers who would have loved it if their owner had interfered less.
The Km and Roland out stance is idiotic, in that it is meaningless and pointless. Owners only leave when they are a willing seller and there is a willing buyer at hand at the right price. If there is to be a protest (or better a movement for change ) it should be for short concise aims that might actually be achieved.
Maybe for the club through its CEO to make a firm announcement that it will seek a credible manager suitable for an ambitious Championship club (even if those ambitions are long term), who will be supported by a moderate investment to improve the squad and be given sufficient time to make a proper impact.
And then not divert from this aim or water it down by involving other issues
RD won't change his main aim, as that is his only reason for buying Charlton. His main aim is to see if he can run Charlton at break even ie without losing money.
This is a laudable, but a deluded aim. It just may have proved successful, if all the other teams were competing on a level playing field. However, FFP is no longer working towards all the other clubs also breaking even. Clubs can lose up to £13M per season and £45M over 3 seasons. Many clubs, rightly or wrongly will be throwing far more money into their squads than us. Most fans suspected the football league would back track, yet RD who is apparently cleverer than anyone else, did not see this coming. Extremely poor judgement IMO.
The most likely scenario of us breaking even whilst many other clubs spend millions more, is that we will be relegated, like Blackpool and Yeovil most recently.
In order to maintain this aim RD must have a CEO and coach that will back him come what may.
The vast majority of competent CEO's and coaches would not.
We are therefore left with a CEO in name only. The CEO cannot answer any searching questions honestly, because she either has to admit that the strategy is flawed and will never work, in which case she will be fired, or has to lie that black is white. Example, her stating that all of our coaches, appointed in the last 18 months, have been a success.
Yes Meire is incompetent and is making ridiculous decisions, perhaps if she was replaced matters may improve. They certainly would if a competent replaced her, but we have no guarantees that a competent would replace her.
RD's is not looking for a strong competent CEO to run the club and challenge him where necessary.
He wants someone to do as they are told, which is why Meire was appointed.
The same goes for the coach. The criteria for selection is primarily, that they will do as they are told, without question or complaint. Whether they are any good or not seems to be somewhat immaterial.
So where do we go from here ?
I think as long as Meire is still with us, then it is right to attempt dialogue with her.
She is clearly out of her depth and doesn't even appear to know what is going on with regard to some matters.
Meire does not want to appear incapable by "leaning on the supporters", but perhaps it is slightly dawning on her that she must.
Meire can clearly do with some better managerial support, which is also sadly lacking.
However, she is deluded if she believes only 2% of the fan base are seriously unhappy. So as well as dialogue we also need to show her and RD that it is not only 2%.
Therefore some sort of action should go ahead at the televised Ipswich game. Something peaceful, a show of unity for those that are unhappy, that will not impinge on others, will not turn violent and will not cause health & safety issues, which concerns some.
The best way, taking into account the above, for the cameras to see this, is for all the supporters who are unhappy to turn their backs on the field of play at an agreed time or enter the stadium late, so we are taking our seats within 5 mins of kick off.
Now I fully back the team and do not want to affect them. So perhaps any back turning should be done when the players have exited the field at half time, as many will not being purchasing food & drink in any case.
NB black & white scarves & balloons are still a good idea as they are visual & a demonstration outside the West is still fine by me.