I love this fans 'our club' vs the owners no it's 'our club actually what you on about' craic.
Let's be clear, a football club does not exist without its fans. It is one of the core points of a football club (and most 'clubs').
If the gate receipts, including season tickets provide 1/3 of the match day revenue, how much is provided when zero fans turn up? Presumably the sponsors are less inclined to pay to no people watching the ads? I assume that the food and stick receipts decrease?
If you had a venue used for gigs or alternate sports events then you may still get that receipt but what do we have there?
So, Katrien, a message to you, without fans, there is no club. A club is about belonging, a club is about heart.
Understand that and you may still succeed. Without that, you will fail. We don't care about you until you care about our club. We don't care if you fail, only what that means for our club.
We understand that under UK corporate rules we do not have real ownership or control, you fiduciary duty is to your shareholder, Roland. Well you listen to the fans or you are failing in your fiduciary duty. Simple.
So if I email the club and request all my personal details are removed from the system, how will I know if it has actually been done or whether my email has been simply deleted?
You probably won't know, the acid test will be whether the email shots continue or not I'm afraid
So I email the club today and request my details are deleted and over the course of the next 2-3 months I continue to receive correspondence from them; invitations to the Vista Lounge, Curry Night, Season ticket renewal etc.
What action can I then take against the club for disregarding my request.
Not trying to pick holes in this suggestion (if it helps reinforce the level of discontent I'm in) but I'd like to understand the impact it can have.
Well there's a couple of issues here firstly the club are in breach of their Fans Charter in not responding to you (arbiters,The Football League Limited, Customer Services Department, Edward VII Quay, Navigation Way, Preston PR2 2YF) and then there is the issue of the Data Protection Act.
This is detailed here http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/data-protection-act the salient sections being 'Stopping your information being used' and 'Stopping unwanted direct marketing'. If they fail to comply with your requests other than they are within their rights (21 days) your recourse is to the Information Commissioners Office who ultimately could fine them.
Which probably won't affect KM immediately but it all adds up to aggro for the Club which will permeate upwards, one would hope. @cafcfan will correct any inaccuracies for me
Enjoy yourselves. I hate this ownership as much as anyone, but they have made it clear they don't care what you think, and a couple hundred of us sitting in a car park won't bother them at all. Just make sure the Guardian readers amongst us can't accuse you of being racist for using the word Belgian, or sexist for saying anything bad about Katrien.
We are dealing with people who couldn't care less about any of our opinions, and have made that clear on repeated occasions, do I have a better suggestion? No, but the most vegetative of protests will not do a thing, at all. A boycott idea has a lot more weight to it, and I think it will happen naturally when it comes to renewing season tickets this season.
Too many people put too much weight on the fact that fans have been at the heart of the club in the past, that is not the case anymore, you are against a group of people who will literally laugh in your face at your efforts. Katrien says that gate receipts are 1/3 of the clubs income, maybe if it turns into 1/10 they will start to worry...
So I have seen many lifers agree they will not renew season tickets next season. I am one.
I think it would be helpful if we all emailed one address within a week saying we weren't renewing and why, ideally in our own words but otherwise using a standard form email.
What address should we use and when should we do so I am asking? Can we organise for the week starting 4th January or is this too early? And who should we email?
Can I just say again this 1/3 of the receipts number is very simple? What are the rest of the receipts? Food and drink sales (gate dependent), sponsorship (sticky but ultimately gate dependent), merchandise (gate dependent)...what else have I missed?
Can I just say again this 1/3 of the receipts number is very simple? What are the rest of the receipts? Food and drink sales (gate dependent), sponsorship (sticky but ultimately gate dependent), merchandise (gate dependent)...what else have I missed?
"Solidarity payments" and TV revenue. Both fixed regardless of anything else.
no idea what percentage or absolute amount or percentage of revenues they may be in either the championship or in League 1 where I assume they fall a bit?
Not such a parachute as from prem to championship?
Championship clubs who aren't in a parachute position ge t a solidarity payment equal to 30% of a this year parachute payment. league 1 clubs get 4.5%, a 26.5% fall (16/17 year)
Oh yeah there is obviously a tipping point, and I will admit I am a lot closer to it than I was 12 months ago when some supporters congregated in Woolwich Town Centre, but I am a lenient and patient person, and pretty laid back in life, and think that has helped me to give them time to redeem themselves. If there is no investment in January and we get relegated, then that may well be my breaking point, but I can't say for sure.
People can claim its blind faith and it is a weak or thin argument, but at the same time they will probably want Roland out even if he goes on to invest into the club and pulls us out of the relegation mire
You are an apologist of the c**** that have ruined 20 years of getting us back to SE7 etc in 2 years.
These people need to sell up and we pick up the pieces.
So if I email the club and request all my personal details are removed from the system, how will I know if it has actually been done or whether my email has been simply deleted?
Do it in two stages. stage one is to demand to see, within 21 days, the information they have on you personally. this will avoid any generic cut and paste reply. if you then demand your details are removed you will have to wait to see if they have really done it. A good tactic is to demand to see your details, amend something like adding or removing your middle name, and then demand to see the amended details at a later date. My reading of the data protection act is that such a procedure will cost you nothing, but failure to comply will be an offence by the club. I don't know how an offence would be processed, or by whom, or what the sanctions would be.
I agree with the article and I intend to demonstrate on Saturday even in the rain, even in the cold, even if we win. The article does say that there are investors right now prepared to move in the January transfer window.
Now the difficult bit.
If the potential investors were known, it would make any deal very tricky to broker realistically, however any potential investor would also know that Roland holds all the cards and does not appear to be desperate. The investors however if they were known, out loud as it were, their credibility could be assessed somewhat, and those wondering whether to whole heartedly demonstrate or not would be better informed.
Comments
Peter Varney's black and white army : - )
Let's be clear, a football club does not exist without its fans. It is one of the core points of a football club (and most 'clubs').
If the gate receipts, including season tickets provide 1/3 of the match day revenue, how much is provided when zero fans turn up? Presumably the sponsors are less inclined to pay to no people watching the ads? I assume that the food and stick receipts decrease?
If you had a venue used for gigs or alternate sports events then you may still get that receipt but what do we have there?
So, Katrien, a message to you, without fans, there is no club. A club is about belonging, a club is about heart.
Understand that and you may still succeed. Without that, you will fail. We don't care about you until you care about our club. We don't care if you fail, only what that means for our club.
We understand that under UK corporate rules we do not have real ownership or control, you fiduciary duty is to your shareholder, Roland. Well you listen to the fans or you are failing in your fiduciary duty. Simple.
This is detailed here http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/data-protection-act the salient sections being 'Stopping your information being used' and 'Stopping unwanted direct marketing'. If they fail to comply with your requests other than they are within their rights (21 days) your recourse is to the Information Commissioners Office who ultimately could fine them.
Which probably won't affect KM immediately but it all adds up to aggro for the Club which will permeate upwards, one would hope. @cafcfan will correct any inaccuracies for me
We are dealing with people who couldn't care less about any of our opinions, and have made that clear on repeated occasions, do I have a better suggestion? No, but the most vegetative of protests will not do a thing, at all. A boycott idea has a lot more weight to it, and I think it will happen naturally when it comes to renewing season tickets this season.
Too many people put too much weight on the fact that fans have been at the heart of the club in the past, that is not the case anymore, you are against a group of people who will literally laugh in your face at your efforts. Katrien says that gate receipts are 1/3 of the clubs income, maybe if it turns into 1/10 they will start to worry...
I think it would be helpful if we all emailed one address within a week saying we weren't renewing and why, ideally in our own words but otherwise using a standard form email.
What address should we use and when should we do so I am asking? Can we organise for the week starting 4th January or is this too early? And who should we email?
no idea what percentage or absolute amount or percentage of revenues they may be in either the championship or in League 1 where I assume they fall a bit?
Not such a parachute as from prem to championship?
Off to look into this now.
Put forward a simple idea about giving the club information via email about people's intentions about renewing season tickets for next season.
And now people complicate things.ahhh!!!
Anyway,my idea is just one of many that we should investigate.
We are sleepwalking to.division one.
These people need to sell up and we pick up the pieces.
But...... yes he did have to go.
Swell of feeling I reckon this will be big.
Http://www.votvonline.com
To the demo I mean, stuff the game
Edit: it seems the answer is yes.
Game changer.
The article does say that there are investors right now prepared to move in the January transfer window.
Now the difficult bit.
If the potential investors were known, it would make any deal very tricky to broker realistically, however any potential investor would also know that Roland holds all the cards and does not appear to be desperate.
The investors however if they were known, out loud as it were, their credibility could be assessed somewhat, and those wondering whether to whole heartedly demonstrate or not would be better informed.
This is tricky territory.