Their core argument (that they didn't think of until the appeal) is that the Public Interest test for disclosure which normally trumps commercial interests should trumped by applying be a second Public Interest test that considers the negative effect of disclosure. LLDC say they will get less revenue if potential event organisers know the terms of the West Ham deal.
As this trumping of the Public Interest test is probably an argument never used before, LLDC will im sure argue it's a point of law if they lose and that the Tribunal is not empowered to decide. Hence an appeal on a point of law.
Richard pulled no punches in pulling this argument apart and why they are just delaying tactics. Its clear to everyone they are making it up as they go along.
My head hurts now...
Because this sort of stuff is what I work with, I'm a bit concerned about their approach.
The Public Interest Test should be used to identify the pro and anti disclosure arguments (any negative impact should have been considered at this stage).
I would have thought that the request should have been handled under EIR rather than FOI. Under EIR they have to demonstrate that disclosure will have an impact on the commercial confidentiality associated with the information (the normal rule of thumb is that this has to be and actionable case that they would expect to lose).
I'm not really sure how the information should be considered commercially confidential, the only stadium like the Olympic Stadium that the LLDC has is the Olympic Stadium - if they are arguing that release of the information will damage their future income for non-football events at that venue, the deal must be even worse for the taxpayer than we'd thought.
If the LLDC are arguing a new interpretation of EIR (or FOI) I think they'll be on to a loser.
I like EIR (even though on the government side), as you actually have greater rights to access information, I would imagine that, if this is the legislation associated with the appeal, the LLDC would struggle to reinterpret it (more so than FOI), as it is based on the Aarhus Convention.
As I understand it the Public Interest Test only comes into play if the IOC have rules in favour of suppressing release and then has to consider whether the overriding public interest takes precedence and trumps the reasons for suppression e.g commercial sensitivity.
The closed session we assume explored the detail of the "sensitive" issues, and whether they are hypothetical, not actual imminent risks.
I don't see why the Tribunal should even consider the argument if they reject exemption on grounds of commercial protection. The lawyer has managed to create an impression of frenzied concern on the part of the LLDC not being able to secure the best deal as a result of new customers demanding what West Ham have.
They are entirely contrived arguments relying on the fiction that LLDC aren't in control of pricing a commercial contact on the rules of supply and demand.
If an EIR request, a Public Interest Test is supposed to be carried out (though no-one loses too much sleep about it if all information is okay for release).
It should provide evidence of the reasoning about withholding information, and the ICO will ask for this evidence if they are approached on appeal.
Like you, I am sure that the closed session related to the "sensitive" material, and I agree that any argument that does not meet the legislative requirements should not influence the Tribunal. It is possible that they may have brought new arguments, consistent with the legislation, to the party, but that will not, necessarily, win over the Tribunal.
They will either decide the information is suitable for release, or it is not.
I've followed the thread but am not close to the detail of the arguments or what the possible outcomes are.
My take is that West Ham and Boris are looking to prevent the release of commercial details because their release may be both embarrassing politically and may lead to future claims of state aid under eu law.
These could, if agree early enough, prevent hammers from the ground, or more likely cost the them more money.
Either way embarrassing for Boris.
The attack angle seems to be on FOI and if so, well played Cherie Blair.
I've followed the thread but am not close to the detail of the arguments or what the possible outcomes are.
My take is that West Ham and Boris are looking to prevent the release of commercial details because their release may be both embarrassing politically and may lead to future claims of state aid under eu law.
These could, if agree early enough, prevent hammers from the ground, or more likely cost the them more money.
Either way embarrassing for Boris.
The attack angle seems to be on FOI and if so, well played Cherie Blair.
My cousin who is heavily involved in the O's campaign informed me this could be the 'watergate' moment. Unfortunately it takes one football club to take the lead, something he thinks is unlikely to happen given all those concerned
Spurs - got a pay off from Boris Leyton Orient - have a nutter owner, does he care, does he understand it Millwall - now have their own battles with Lewisham council Us - Roland, Roland, Roland
Also if they (west ham) were found to have benefited from state aid, apparently you have to pay it back straight away - no arguments
West Ham have submitted a planning application for a the largest digital screens in Europe - measuring 83m x 12m - to be wrapped around the outside of the Olympic Stadium.
West Ham have submitted a planning application for a the largest digital screens in Europe - measuring 83m x 12m - to be wrapped around the outside of the Olympic Stadium.
Announced craftily after the Information Tribunal has finished hearing evidence.
West Ham have submitted a planning application for a the largest digital screens in Europe - measuring 83m x 12m - to be wrapped around the outside of the Olympic Stadium.
Announced craftily after the Information Tribunal has finished hearing evidence.
West Ham have submitted a planning application for a the largest digital screens in Europe - measuring 83m x 12m - to be wrapped around the outside of the Olympic Stadium.
Announced craftily after the Information Tribunal has finished hearing evidence.
I've politely asked Lady Brady on Twitter. No reply as of yet.
I would suggest that as it's not their ground, it's not them, it wouldn't surprise me that they are not paying for any TVs license or any Sky subscription at the OS.
Well this is going to be interesting. Boris wants the Olympic stadium to be a 'legacy', probably in honour of, well in honour of Boris I suppose, with a bit of Lord Coe and Baroness Brady thrown in. So we have Wimbledon, whose angst we Charltonians as supporters of all clubs should empathise with, we have Wimbledon waiting on the word of Boris. He ought to agree Wimbledon's stadium and throw in £150 million for good measure, and for balance!
I may as well post this on here too, save you chaps the angst and effort:
New Stadium capacity increased to 60,000
In conjunction with the London Legacy Development Corporation, Newham Council and Stadium operators LS185, West Ham United are delighted to announce that the former Olympic Stadium will now boast a capacity of 60,000 for Hammers matchdays.
The move will see the release of 6,000 additional seats, so that even more West Ham fans will be able to enjoy the team’s debut season on Queen Elizabeth Olympic Park.
The Club announced late last year that the number of people registered on the Season Ticket Priority List five times exceeded the number of seasonal seats available. In the months since, the West Ham Board have been working closely with their stadium partners on how to accommodate the maximum number of Hammers fans.
This new higher capacity will bolster footfall to the site, with West Ham’s presence bringing 1.5 million visitors to the park each year.
With the Club’s transition to Stratford proving an overwhelming success so far, West Ham United Vice-Chairman Karren Brady said she was thrilled that thousands more loyal Hammers fans would have the opportunity to take their place in West Ham history.
“Today’s announcement is further evidence of the upward trajectory of this Club,” the Vice-Chairman said. “We are on course for what could be our most successful Premier League performance ever and our ambitions to finish in the top six and break into Europe are very much within reach.
“West Ham fans are famous the world over for their wonderful support. They have demonstrated this once again at matches this season and in the way that they have embraced the move to the new ground. We are delighted to be able to reward that magnificent support by releasing additional Season Tickets and bring even more visitors to the Park to enjoy all that it has to offer.
“The 2016/17 season looks bright for the team, the Club and our fans. Not only will we have one of the world’s greatest new stadiums, but now it will be one of the very largest in the world’s most-watched league – a Stadium with both the quality and the capacity to match our ambitions.”
David Edmonds, Chairman of E20, added: “It is fantastic to see such a high demand for West Ham United tickets as it shows how eager people are to watch football at the Stadium. By meeting this demand the use of the venue will be maximised, increasing its revenue and the return to the taxpayer. It will also give more people the opportunity to enjoy Queen Elizabeth Olympic Park’s beautiful parklands, historic waterways and unrivalled sports facilities.”
Mayor of Newham, Sir Robin Wales, said: “The Stadium is an iconic venue and it is fantastic that even more people will be able see football in such a high quality setting. Our investment in the Stadium was all about giving as many Newham residents as possible the chance to see top class sport in the borough. This announcement further supports that commitment.”
Linda Lennon CBE, Chief Executive LS185, Operators of the Stadium said: “We are delighted to have worked with West Ham United to deliver this extra capacity. 60,000 fans will provide a great atmosphere and it is a superb way to begin the new season in this iconic venue.”
West Ham fans hoping to secure a Season Ticket for the new Stadium can still join the Priority List. Anyone who does not get a Season Ticket for the 2016/17 Season will be transferred to a waiting list and notified as and when seats become available.
West Ham have submitted a planning application for a the largest digital screens in Europe - measuring 83m x 12m - to be wrapped around the outside of the Olympic Stadium.
Is this so supporters in the cheaper seats can stand outside the stadium and actually see the game?
Every other stadium in the World benefits from ticket revenue AND rent. The lower the rent the higher the share of ticket revenue.
Surprise surprise, West Ham keep ALL ticket revenue and they pay naff all rent. To rub it in they've been allowed to increase seating, increase revenue and keep all the profit.
The benefit to us, we are told, is a better atmosphere and more people to get free tickets.
A fascinating early morning read, PragueAddick! Once again, many thanks from us all for your hard work and dedication on this, especially whilst fighting our own battles at CAFC. I can not believe that the LLDC have a leg to stand on but I am a mere taxpayer who obviously deserves to be kept in the dark. Here's hoping the Tribunal do the right and honourable thing by allowing the exposure of the dealings and spending to be scrutinised.
There are lots of unbelievable aspects to this. Our club's ignorant stance is one of them. West Ham have already publicised how cheap their tickets are going to be, now they are adding significantly more seats (possibly again funded by tax payers). Not that it has any chance of succeeding anyway, but who is going to pay more to watch Charlton's lower league youngsters not winning much, when they will be able to watch a competitive, even possibly a top as the result of this, Premier club for a similar or even lower price. Of course if West Ham built the stadium off their own back like Arsenal did, or paid a fairer percentage, nobody could complain – that’s business. But if tax payers are helping West Ham to undermine other local clubs, how can that be right? All that is being asked is that West Ham pay a fair amount. This isn’t about Boris’ legacy, but about the future of Leyton Orient and even ourselves. I sometimes think the whole world is either mad or corrupt. Well done Prague.
@gavros forgot to mention the digital wrap, which wasn't going to be taken up due to the cost (who's paying for that again ?). Add in the 6,000 extra seats and the benefit from the public funding. It's great to be WHU eh ? Karen Brady as Tory Lord and Sullivan attending the Black & White ball where big political donations are levied, Boris Johnson looking to claim a legacy for his push as Tory leader. The whole thing stinks and I hope the exact nature of the deal becomes public knowledge as it should. If there is nothing to hide then there shouldn't be any problem.
@gavros forgot to mention the digital wrap, which wasn't going to be taken up due to the cost (who's paying for that again ?). Add in the 6,000 extra seats and the benefit from the public funding. It's great to be WHU eh ? Karen Brady as Tory Lord and Sullivan attending the Black & White ball where big political donations are levied, Boris Johnson looking to claim a legacy for his push as Tory leader. The whole thing stinks and I hope the exact nature of the deal becomes public knowledge as it should. If there is nothing to hide then there shouldn't be any problem.
This.
@vff , please may I use this on twitter, facebook etc...
Comments
It should provide evidence of the reasoning about withholding information, and the ICO will ask for this evidence if they are approached on appeal.
Like you, I am sure that the closed session related to the "sensitive" material, and I agree that any argument that does not meet the legislative requirements should not influence the Tribunal. It is possible that they may have brought new arguments, consistent with the legislation, to the party, but that will not, necessarily, win over the Tribunal.
They will either decide the information is suitable for release, or it is not.
Fingers' very definitely crossed.
My take is that West Ham and Boris are looking to prevent the release of commercial details because their release may be both embarrassing politically and may lead to future claims of state aid under eu law.
These could, if agree early enough, prevent hammers from the ground, or more likely cost the them more money.
Either way embarrassing for Boris.
The attack angle seems to be on FOI and if so, well played Cherie Blair.
Spurs - got a pay off from Boris
Leyton Orient - have a nutter owner, does he care, does he understand it
Millwall - now have their own battles with Lewisham council
Us - Roland, Roland, Roland
Also if they (west ham) were found to have benefited from state aid, apparently you have to pay it back straight away - no arguments
£155m or whatever they got
@PragueAddick sorry if you've already covered this
Stone cladding and dodgy turrets...nah, already done that!!
http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/35884135?ns_mchannel=social&ns_campaign=bbc_match_of_the_day&ns_source=facebook&ns_linkname=sport
Boris wants the Olympic stadium to be a 'legacy', probably in honour of, well in honour of Boris I suppose, with a bit of Lord Coe and Baroness Brady thrown in.
So we have Wimbledon, whose angst we Charltonians as supporters of all clubs should empathise with, we have Wimbledon waiting on the word of Boris.
He ought to agree Wimbledon's stadium and throw in £150 million for good measure, and for balance!
New Stadium capacity increased to 60,000
In conjunction with the London Legacy Development Corporation, Newham Council and Stadium operators LS185, West Ham United are delighted to announce that the former Olympic Stadium will now boast a capacity of 60,000 for Hammers matchdays.
The move will see the release of 6,000 additional seats, so that even more West Ham fans will be able to enjoy the team’s debut season on Queen Elizabeth Olympic Park.
The Club announced late last year that the number of people registered on the Season Ticket Priority List five times exceeded the number of seasonal seats available. In the months since, the West Ham Board have been working closely with their stadium partners on how to accommodate the maximum number of Hammers fans.
This new higher capacity will bolster footfall to the site, with West Ham’s presence bringing 1.5 million visitors to the park each year.
With the Club’s transition to Stratford proving an overwhelming success so far, West Ham United Vice-Chairman Karren Brady said she was thrilled that thousands more loyal Hammers fans would have the opportunity to take their place in West Ham history.
“Today’s announcement is further evidence of the upward trajectory of this Club,” the Vice-Chairman said. “We are on course for what could be our most successful Premier League performance ever and our ambitions to finish in the top six and break into Europe are very much within reach.
“West Ham fans are famous the world over for their wonderful support. They have demonstrated this once again at matches this season and in the way that they have embraced the move to the new ground. We are delighted to be able to reward that magnificent support by releasing additional Season Tickets and bring even more visitors to the Park to enjoy all that it has to offer.
“The 2016/17 season looks bright for the team, the Club and our fans. Not only will we have one of the world’s greatest new stadiums, but now it will be one of the very largest in the world’s most-watched league – a Stadium with both the quality and the capacity to match our ambitions.”
David Edmonds, Chairman of E20, added: “It is fantastic to see such a high demand for West Ham United tickets as it shows how eager people are to watch football at the Stadium. By meeting this demand the use of the venue will be maximised, increasing its revenue and the return to the taxpayer. It will also give more people the opportunity to enjoy Queen Elizabeth Olympic Park’s beautiful parklands, historic waterways and unrivalled sports facilities.”
Mayor of Newham, Sir Robin Wales, said: “The Stadium is an iconic venue and it is fantastic that even more people will be able see football in such a high quality setting. Our investment in the Stadium was all about giving as many Newham residents as possible the chance to see top class sport in the borough. This announcement further supports that commitment.”
Linda Lennon CBE, Chief Executive LS185, Operators of the Stadium said: “We are delighted to have worked with West Ham United to deliver this extra capacity. 60,000 fans will provide a great atmosphere and it is a superb way to begin the new season in this iconic venue.”
West Ham fans hoping to secure a Season Ticket for the new Stadium can still join the Priority List. Anyone who does not get a Season Ticket for the 2016/17 Season will be transferred to a waiting list and notified as and when seats become available.
whufc.com/News/Articles/2016/March/23-March/New-Stadium-capacity-increased-to-60,000#MDmZU3e67ig6K76d.99
Also are they paying anymore in rent? If you rent a 4 bed house in the same street as a 3 bed house, would you pay the same rent?
Surprise surprise, West Ham keep ALL ticket revenue and they pay naff all rent. To rub it in they've been allowed to increase seating, increase revenue and keep all the profit.
The benefit to us, we are told, is a better atmosphere and more people to get free tickets.
@vff , please may I use this on twitter, facebook etc...