Is it West Ham's fault? Not really the question. You should be considering whether it is West Ham's responsibility to ensure any 'great deal' it negotiates falls within parameters of law. If not, they are no less culpable than the LLDC for the consequences.
Bit like being aware of FoIA responsibilities when you're signing a contract with a public body. It's called due diligence.
What aspects of the contract did not fall within the parameters of the law? All the appeals and length of time it took would suggest the legal responsibilities, regarding FoIA were not so cut and dry.
As clear as it is that West Ham have taken the piss, their obligations are towards their shareholders, not the tax payer. Surely it's those sitting across the table from them that need to take the flak here.
Well I can answer with authority regarding the FOI part.
The first aspect is that the LLDC broke the law with regard to the FOI response time at every single stage of the process. 20 working days is just that. And it is supposed to be the maximum. They broke that part of the law 6 times on this request alone, and regularly do so on other requests.
Their more substantive argument, which does come up quite commonly in FOI, was commercial confidentiality. However when that was finally tested in the highest available court, their argument was thrown out. Unanimously. I don't believe the LLDC seriously believed there was a commercial risk, because their version of the nature of the risk changed during the process. Up until the Tribunal the risk was to West Ham. At the Tribunal West Ham hardly got a mention, let alone an appearance, the risk was to E20 (the company without employees). IMHO it was simply a cynical delaying tactic. Had they respected the law, the full contract would have been open to inspection more than two years before West Ham were due to move in. Two years in which Boris Johnson's career (he was the head of the LLDC until he mysteriously resigned when the Information Commissioner found for us) was on an upward trajectory....
I think we're pretty much in agreement, the negotiations stunk, especially considering the Tory connections, but West Ham couldn't have ever been expected to negotiate anything other than the best deal for themselves.
My opinion often changes on this, but right now I'm tempted to agree with Muttley, something here stinks too bad.
One thing I'd be interested to know, did the LLDC break the law, or did they take their appeals as far as they could? I seem to recall you saying they missed tons of deadlines, then appealed every ruling, literally ensuring every decision was delayed as much as possible. If that was the tactic, there can only be one reason why.
Is it West Ham's fault? Not really the question. You should be considering whether it is West Ham's responsibility to ensure any 'great deal' it negotiates falls within parameters of law. If not, they are no less culpable than the LLDC for the consequences.
Bit like being aware of FoIA responsibilities when you're signing a contract with a public body. It's called due diligence.
What aspects of the contract did not fall within the parameters of the law? All the appeals and length of time it took would suggest the legal responsibilities, regarding FoIA were not so cut and dry.
As clear as it is that West Ham have taken the piss, their obligations are towards their shareholders, not the tax payer. Surely it's those sitting across the table from them that need to take the flak here.
Well I can answer with authority regarding the FOI part.
The first aspect is that the LLDC broke the law with regard to the FOI response time at every single stage of the process. 20 working days is just that. And it is supposed to be the maximum. They broke that part of the law 6 times on this request alone, and regularly do so on other requests.
Their more substantive argument, which does come up quite commonly in FOI, was commercial confidentiality. However when that was finally tested in the highest available court, their argument was thrown out. Unanimously. I don't believe the LLDC seriously believed there was a commercial risk, because their version of the nature of the risk changed during the process. Up until the Tribunal the risk was to West Ham. At the Tribunal West Ham hardly got a mention, let alone an appearance, the risk was to E20 (the company without employees). IMHO it was simply a cynical delaying tactic. Had they respected the law, the full contract would have been open to inspection more than two years before West Ham were due to move in. Two years in which Boris Johnson's career (he was the head of the LLDC until he mysteriously resigned when the Information Commissioner found for us) was on an upward trajectory....
I think we're pretty much in agreement, the negotiations stunk, especially considering the Tory connections, but West Ham couldn't have ever been expected to negotiate anything other than the best deal for themselves.
My opinion often changes on this, but right now I'm tempted to agree with Muttley, something here stinks too bad.
One thing I'd be interested to know, did the LLDC break the law, or did they take their appeals as far as they could? I seem to recall you saying they missed tons of deadlines, then appealed every ruling, literally ensuring every decision was delayed as much as possible. If that was the tactic, there can only be one reason why.
The short answer to that is "both". It is against the law to not reply within 28 days. The LLDC frequently did that, and not just to me. @rikofold has been equally determined, with questions about the digital wrap, and experienced the same thing. But they also played the system as long as they could. Most people thought that when the Information Commissioner found for us in September they would throw the towel in. But they waited until the last day allowed before announcing an appeal. That bought them another seven months. As you say, there can be only one reason for such cynical abuse of the process.
Owners throughout the land are getting more and more sensitive about any criticism of the way they run clubs. At least Brady and Gold turn up to matches.
On the subject of Brady, I would pat a lot of money to see Daisy take her place for one week on the Apprentice. And I imagine an empty chair next to Lord Sugar because the filming of the boardroom scene is before her start time of 1pm ...
Think they may be interested in any 2nd hand North Korean flags?
Given that flag above, I thought I'd have a look at KUMB for their thoughts on LaLa Braddy! Looks like they would be in the market for the taxis as well!!
Owners throughout the land are getting more and more sensitive about any criticism of the way they run clubs. At least Brady and Gold turn up to matches.
On the subject of Brady, I would pat a lot of money to see Daisy take her place for one week on the Apprentice. And I imagine an empty chair next to Lord Sugar because the filming of the boardroom scene is before her start time of 1pm ...
On The Apprentice I find Karren Brady more annoying than the brainless arseholes competing on the programme, and I don't say that lightly! It's like she's watched how Nick Hewer used to pull the occasional face when the contestants did something stupid and thought "I'll just do that! Everyone loved Nick! They'll love me too!" The trouble is, Hewer had a bit of charisma. When she does it, it looks forced and she ends up looking like a bulldog licking piss off a nettle. On top of this, she's just fucking horrible to the poor little fucktard contestants. She ripped one team a new one the other week over their mermaid based entertainment. Now as it happens, I agreed with her that it seemed a bit shit. I thought it was tacky and dull and, well, just a bit crappy. But at the end of the day, not one of the customers said they were unhappy. The public liked it, which meant the team were justified in their approach. She was utterly graceless when reporting this back to them: "Unbelievably, you got 100% satisfaction!" That's the fucking point Brady. It doesn't matter whether you liked it or not. The public liked it and it made money. That's. The. Game. She boils my piss. However, the most annoying thing is how she's so obviously positioning herself to take over when old Lord Sugar decides he's bored of it.
Owners throughout the land are getting more and more sensitive about any criticism of the way they run clubs. At least Brady and Gold turn up to matches.
On the subject of Brady, I would pat a lot of money to see Daisy take her place for one week on the Apprentice. And I imagine an empty chair next to Lord Sugar because the filming of the boardroom scene is before her start time of 1pm ...
On The Apprentice I find Karren Brady more annoying than the brainless arseholes competing on the programme, and I don't say that lightly! It's like she's watched how Nick Hewer used to pull the occasional face when the contestants did something stupid and thought "I'll just do that! Everyone loved Nick! They'll love me too!" The trouble is, Hewer had a bit of charisma. When she does it, it looks forced and she ends up looking like a bulldog licking piss off a nettle. On top of this, she's just fucking horrible to the poor little fucktard contestants. She ripped one team a new one the other week over their mermaid based entertainment. Now as it happens, I agreed with her that it seemed a bit shit. I thought it was tacky and dull and, well, just a bit crappy. But at the end of the day, not one of the customers said they were unhappy. The public liked it, which meant the team were justified in their approach. She was utterly graceless when reporting this back to them: "Unbelievably, you got 100% satisfaction!" That's the fucking point Brady. It doesn't matter whether you liked it or not. The public liked it and it made money. That's. The. Game. She boils my piss. However, the most annoying thing is how she's so obviously positioning herself to take over when old Lord Sugar decides he's bored of it.
There you go. My two penn'orth on Shady Brady.
Week 3: negotiate a stadium deal for a premiership football club.
It should never be forgotten that she has managed to present herself as some kind of champion and ambassador for small businesses, and apparently that's why they made her a Baroness. Yet she has never set up and run an SME in her life. She's always been Gullivan's moll, and has never had to exist without their patronage.
I watched her on that feed from the GLA Police meeting. She really is a revolting person.
Palace and West Ham definitely have a chance of relegation, especially with Sunderland looking more solid now
That stadium could be the millstone that drags West Ham down if they are still in the mix in Feb/March. Loads of far off white seats and a echoing toxic fan base if things are going badly will destroy any remaining team spirit.
(Just edited the rest out, its the Olympic Stadium thread so the rest doesn't apply)
No chance of them or palace going down unfortunately we can but dream
Unfortunately I'd tend to agree about palace but I think it's rotten to the core at west ham and could easily see them going down. The crowd are turning on the board big time and that sort of thing always effects the playing side. The half-decent players there look like they've lost interest and want out (Mark Noble apart) and the rest just don't seem to have the quality or the minerals. It won't be long before the fans turn on the team and manager too (if they haven't already) and once that happens there will only be one outcome. Plus I'm a big believer in karma. The way their board, Brady in particular, and a lot of their fans rubbed our noses in it about getting the OS for free, well, he who laughs last laughs loudest. How s*** would a less than half full OS be in the championship? Mwhahahaha
On a separate note, heard a new nickname for the OS the other day from one of our lot. The Dogs Bowl. Got a nice ring to it that
No chance of them or palace going down unfortunately we can but dream
Unfortunately I'd tend to agree about palace but I think it's rotten to the core at west ham and could easily see them going down. The crowd are turning on the board big time and that sort of thing always effects the playing side. The half-decent players there look like they've lost interest and want out (Mark Noble apart) and the rest just don't seem to have the quality or the minerals. It won't be long before the fans turn on the team and manager too (if they haven't already) and once that happens there will only be one outcome. Plus I'm a big believer in karma. The way their board, Brady in particular, and a lot of their fans rubbed our noses in it about getting the OS for free, well, he who laughs last laughs loudest. How s*** would a less than half full OS be in the championship? Mwhahahaha
On a separate note, heard a new nickname for the OS the other day from one of our lot. The Dogs Bowl. Got a nice ring to it that
Today we met with Caroline Pidgeon. Kevin Rye was at City Hall, I was on Skype. We presented our nine page dossier which shows that on top of the 150% overspend on the refit, it is currently set for operating losses which the taxpayer will also have to fund until such time as they sort out the retractable seat fiasco (the solution will likely further increase the capital cost), and a significant naming rights deal is secured. She undertook to ensure that the Mayor's enquiry examines the operational as well as capital costs, and that our dossier is considered as part of their enquiries.
Today we met with Caroline Pidgeon. Kevin Rye was at City Hall, I was on Skype. We presented our nine page dossier which shows that on top of the 150% overspend on the refit, it is currently set for operating losses which the taxpayer will also have to fund until such time as they sort out the retractable seat fiasco (the solution will likely further increase the capital cost), and a significant naming rights deal is secured. She undertook to ensure that the Mayor's enquiry examines the operational as well as capital costs, and that our dossier is considered as part of their enquiries.
Comments
My opinion often changes on this, but right now I'm tempted to agree with Muttley, something here stinks too bad.
One thing I'd be interested to know, did the LLDC break the law, or did they take their appeals as far as they could? I seem to recall you saying they missed tons of deadlines, then appealed every ruling, literally ensuring every decision was delayed as much as possible. If that was the tactic, there can only be one reason why.
On the subject of Brady, I would pat a lot of money to see Daisy take her place for one week on the Apprentice. And I imagine an empty chair next to Lord Sugar because the filming of the boardroom scene is before her start time of 1pm ...
http://www.kumb.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=165549&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=960
I did actually LOL this comment about the "groundbreaking retractable seating solution..."
Well...it is "ground breaking". You have to smash the ****ers out of the floor to move them.
What with the manic "wanker" signs...
It's like she's watched how Nick Hewer used to pull the occasional face when the contestants did something stupid and thought "I'll just do that! Everyone loved Nick! They'll love me too!"
The trouble is, Hewer had a bit of charisma. When she does it, it looks forced and she ends up looking like a bulldog licking piss off a nettle.
On top of this, she's just fucking horrible to the poor little fucktard contestants. She ripped one team a new one the other week over their mermaid based entertainment. Now as it happens, I agreed with her that it seemed a bit shit. I thought it was tacky and dull and, well, just a bit crappy.
But at the end of the day, not one of the customers said they were unhappy. The public liked it, which meant the team were justified in their approach. She was utterly graceless when reporting this back to them: "Unbelievably, you got 100% satisfaction!" That's the fucking point Brady. It doesn't matter whether you liked it or not. The public liked it and it made money.
That's. The. Game.
She boils my piss. However, the most annoying thing is how she's so obviously positioning herself to take over when old Lord Sugar decides he's bored of it.
There you go. My two penn'orth on Shady Brady.
Great post.
It should never be forgotten that she has managed to present herself as some kind of champion and ambassador for small businesses, and apparently that's why they made her a Baroness. Yet she has never set up and run an SME in her life. She's always been Gullivan's moll, and has never had to exist without their patronage.
I watched her on that feed from the GLA Police meeting. She really is a revolting person.
Have you forgotten what Sir Lennie said in autumn 1989? "By October, the die is cast"
And we went down
(Just edited the rest out, its the Olympic Stadium thread so the rest doesn't apply)
How s*** would a less than half full OS be in the championship? Mwhahahaha
On a separate note, heard a new nickname for the OS the other day from one of our lot. The Dogs Bowl. Got a nice ring to it that
The OS stadium poll - http://www.kumb.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=166551
Another step closer to achieving our goal.