I have watched Diego Poyet a lot from U16 to the first team. He is not as good as he thinks he is. He can tackle, he gives 100 per cent, but he is what I would call a limited footballer.
He was so limited he won POTY by playing 20 odd games and was the catalyst for Cafc retaining their championship status. He was/is a water carrier but every team needs this type of player. Lost his way big time but sad that a young player who had proved his worth at Cafc was offered a derisory offer as a championship player. Given pelters by Charlton fans who believe players should stay despite a poor offer.
When he returned his confidence was low and the team were Rubbish. I had the misfortune to be at Hull when they were 6-0 up and declared after 80 minutes.
Surprised that Gus didn't help his lad by taking him under his wing but I guess he wanted Diego too stand on his own two feet.
Diego career is similar to John Bostock where early promise doesn't come to fruition. At 23 still time to find a fetch and carry role at a decent level in football.
He was and is arrogant. He believes he is better than he is.
We simply do not know the offer to say it was derisory or not.
Derisory to Ronaldo would be £150k a week.
To a league 1 player it could be £500 a week.
To a championship player a few k a week.
After 20 games where he wasn't fantastic in every one and he was often supported and covered by cousins, I think he should have at least considered the offer. My understanding is that the offer of a loan was to make it seem more appealing to sign and still have the opportunity to play in other leagues.
The odd thing is....under the Douche....you probably could not be at a better club as a youngster to get game time and therefore profile.
This is a very interesting point. From Poyets point of view there really was no better club to get first team games as RD wants players in his category to play in the team so he can sell on.
I can't believe people are giving Poyet stick. Even as a boyhood fan I would probably have left. Not just for the money but because Roland was and still very much is, a wanker.
No doubt his career hasn't turned out the way he hoped, nor is he being particularly truthful, but I don't blame him for leaving one bit.
He's not exactly in a minority though, most youngsters follow the money these days and it's not exactly a guaranteed path to success.
I don't think he's getting stick for leaving, he's getting stick for the fact his head doesn't seem to have ceased inflating since his first half season with us. All through that article he still comes across as a kid who thinks he should be running the show on the pitch. He left Charlton because he felt underappreciated, he left West Ham because he felt that the fact he played a bit of Europa League and scored a penalty in a shootout he should be playing in the first team in The Premier League and didn't want to wait around as he gets 'frustrated very easily' which isn't a great attribute in a developing player, especially as it doesn't look like he's doing anything to work on that. He then failed in three English loans, made a bad move abroad and now has played a little bit in Cyprus and gives the impression he's looking to get back to England even though he’s shown nothing to indicate he’s improved since his last appearances in England. There’s not a lot of reflection on his choices, just a lot of blaming others and excuses.
possibly, but I still get the feeling he is getting stick for walking out when he did. Many on here are saying he would have been better off staying.
Yes his career hasn't developed, but he did what most others would also have done, including me.
One thing he needs to stand up and admit though is that he has made poor decisions and his career is not going to plan, rather than just making excuses.
He felt our offer wasn’t good enough and then we started talking about loaning him to Standard Liege.
Wow is that the promised truth?
Or is there a secret we still await?
RD probably preferred the £750k compensation, and I bet Poyet was offered less than some of the crap network signings, including some who were paid off.
Hardly setting Cyprus alight is he? 13 starts (pulled off in 4 of those) plus eight sub appearances. Last five games: not on the bench for two, unused sub for one and came on at 55 mins and 90+2 in the other two. (And, natch, no goals in a career total 99 games.)
Blimey I only used to get half an orange at half time
He played in a really unusual position when he broke into our side. From memory he sat 10-15 yards behind our other central midfielders and rarely had any pressure on him when in possession. Perhaps that was what allowed him to shine and why he's flopped in other teams which (I assume) want him to play higher up the pitch in a more conventional role.
Given how his career has progressed since, you could argue that a lowball offer from Katrien was the single most astute thing she did in our time with us. I was never convinced that he was a star in the making, and I doubt that many W Ham fans have fond memories of him
I can't believe people are giving Poyet stick. Even as a boyhood fan I would probably have left. Not just for the money but because Roland was and still very much is, a wanker.
No doubt his career hasn't turned out the way he hoped, nor is he being particularly truthful, but I don't blame him for leaving one bit.
He's not exactly in a minority though, most youngsters follow the money these days and it's not exactly a guaranteed path to success.
I don't think he's getting stick for leaving, he's getting stick for the fact his head doesn't seem to have ceased inflating since his first half season with us. All through that article he still comes across as a kid who thinks he should be running the show on the pitch. He left Charlton because he felt underappreciated, he left West Ham because he felt that the fact he played a bit of Europa League and scored a penalty in a shootout he should be playing in the first team in The Premier League and didn't want to wait around as he gets 'frustrated very easily' which isn't a great attribute in a developing player, especially as it doesn't look like he's doing anything to work on that. He then failed in three English loans, made a bad move abroad and now has played a little bit in Cyprus and gives the impression he's looking to get back to England even though he’s shown nothing to indicate he’s improved since his last appearances in England. There’s not a lot of reflection on his choices, just a lot of blaming others and excuses.
possibly, but I still get the feeling he is getting stick for walking out when he did. Many on here are saying he would have been better off staying.
Yes his career hasn't developed, but he did what most others would also have done, including me.
One thing he needs to stand up and admit though is that he has made poor decisions and his career is not going to plan, rather than just making excuses.
I think both you and gm make very good points that are not mutually exclusive, and I agree with both of you.
A couple caveats I'll add is that it does sound like the Argentina thing was shit luck. It seems there was a plan in place that fell through and he was the one who suffered (if things happened as he described them). I think there are a lot of things he can put his hand up and say "I could have done better," and maybe going there in the first place was a mistake, but the way things transpired were difficult and at the least the setup of the situation wasn't down to him.
I agree with you 1990 that he made a decision that a lot of people would make, and it does feel like he gets some stick for that (as well as for his arrogance). But I feel like 4-5 years ago things were different. It felt like we had far fewer cautionary tales of players going from playing regularly to big clubs and then being frozen out. I feel like now we can point to the loan lists of Chelsea and Manchester City et al, or look at young players who joined Chelsea and didn't progress fast enough, but I do think *back then* there was more focus on get to a big club as soon as you can.
It's not that I think he's blameless in all this, I'm kind of just trying to say that I think he made difficult decisions that turned out poorly more than he's made absolutely the wrong decision every time.
Swansea and Hull are both being linked with him now.
His next decision is critical. At both Swansea and Hull he is unlikely to get games. The last thing he needs is another period of not playing football and slipping further down the chain. Far better for him to go to a club where if he applies himself he will establish himself as a first team regular and start to rebuild his career.
I do wonder exactly what's gone wrong with him. He certainly had the ability. Perhaps it all came a bit to easily early on and his name helped him beyond that ability.
I have often wondered if players from privileged backgrounds can lack the hunger to succeed that players from less well off upbringings can have. That isn't to say middle class kids can't make it, many do, but I wonder if there's just that extra bit of desire in a kid that comes from a working class background that can be the difference between success and failure in professional football.
Went to school with him. The arrogance thing is very true, mainly because he had some friends who 1) were dicks; and 2) ended up being huge sycophants, which can't have helped to deflate an ego.
He had a very, very good half season when he first broke through - no doubt about that. Our reticence to offer a contract, coupled with bigger clubs tapping him up (legally, though), means I have no real qualms about him leaving. He was offered at least £10k a week by one club, of that I'm certain - I think rumours of £20k are unsubstantiated, but he would've been on at least five times more than what CAFC were prepared to offer.
He's made several poor decisions, and several that with hindsight turned out to be poor. Was his personality part of it? Probably. Was poor advice part of it? Almost certainly.
Went to school with him. The arrogance thing is very true, mainly because he had some friends who 1) were dicks; and 2) ended up being huge sycophants, which can't have helped to deflate an ego.
He had a very, very good half season when he first broke through - no doubt about that. Our reticence to offer a contract, coupled with bigger clubs tapping him up (legally, though), means I have no real qualms about him leaving. He was offered at least £10k a week by one club, of that I'm certain - I think rumours of £20k are unsubstantiated, but he would've been on at least five times more than what CAFC were prepared to offer.
He's made several poor decisions, and several that with hindsight turned out to be poor. Was his personality part of it? Probably. Was poor advice part of it? Almost certainly.
Cheers for that Paddy. Ans a good reminder that when you're making huge decisions at 18/19/20 the people you're getting advice from are very important, and that when you're that age you may not understand whose advice you should trust.
I can't believe people are giving Poyet stick. Even as a boyhood fan I would probably have left. Not just for the money but because Roland was and still very much is, a wanker.
No doubt his career hasn't turned out the way he hoped, nor is he being particularly truthful, but I don't blame him for leaving one bit.
He's not exactly in a minority though, most youngsters follow the money these days and it's not exactly a guaranteed path to success.
I don't think he's getting stick for leaving, he's getting stick for the fact his head doesn't seem to have ceased inflating since his first half season with us. All through that article he still comes across as a kid who thinks he should be running the show on the pitch. He left Charlton because he felt underappreciated, he left West Ham because he felt that the fact he played a bit of Europa League and scored a penalty in a shootout he should be playing in the first team in The Premier League and didn't want to wait around as he gets 'frustrated very easily' which isn't a great attribute in a developing player, especially as it doesn't look like he's doing anything to work on that. He then failed in three English loans, made a bad move abroad and now has played a little bit in Cyprus and gives the impression he's looking to get back to England even though he’s shown nothing to indicate he’s improved since his last appearances in England. There’s not a lot of reflection on his choices, just a lot of blaming others and excuses.
possibly, but I still get the feeling he is getting stick for walking out when he did. Many on here are saying he would have been better off staying.
Yes his career hasn't developed, but he did what most others would also have done, including me.
One thing he needs to stand up and admit though is that he has made poor decisions and his career is not going to plan, rather than just making excuses.
I think both you and gm make very good points that are not mutually exclusive, and I agree with both of you.
A couple caveats I'll add is that it does sound like the Argentina thing was shit luck. It seems there was a plan in place that fell through and he was the one who suffered (if things happened as he described them). I think there are a lot of things he can put his hand up and say "I could have done better," and maybe going there in the first place was a mistake, but the way things transpired were difficult and at the least the setup of the situation wasn't down to him.
I agree with you 1990 that he made a decision that a lot of people would make, and it does feel like he gets some stick for that (as well as for his arrogance). But I feel like 4-5 years ago things were different. It felt like we had far fewer cautionary tales of players going from playing regularly to big clubs and then being frozen out. I feel like now we can point to the loan lists of Chelsea and Manchester City et al, or look at young players who joined Chelsea and didn't progress fast enough, but I do think *back then* there was more focus on get to a big club as soon as you can.
It's not that I think he's blameless in all this, I'm kind of just trying to say that I think he made difficult decisions that turned out poorly more than he's made absolutely the wrong decision every time.
fewer yes, but I still think loyalty was almost non-existent 4/5 years ago
I can't believe people are giving Poyet stick. Even as a boyhood fan I would probably have left. Not just for the money but because Roland was and still very much is, a wanker.
No doubt his career hasn't turned out the way he hoped, nor is he being particularly truthful, but I don't blame him for leaving one bit.
He's not exactly in a minority though, most youngsters follow the money these days and it's not exactly a guaranteed path to success.
I don't think he's getting stick for leaving, he's getting stick for the fact his head doesn't seem to have ceased inflating since his first half season with us. All through that article he still comes across as a kid who thinks he should be running the show on the pitch. He left Charlton because he felt underappreciated, he left West Ham because he felt that the fact he played a bit of Europa League and scored a penalty in a shootout he should be playing in the first team in The Premier League and didn't want to wait around as he gets 'frustrated very easily' which isn't a great attribute in a developing player, especially as it doesn't look like he's doing anything to work on that. He then failed in three English loans, made a bad move abroad and now has played a little bit in Cyprus and gives the impression he's looking to get back to England even though he’s shown nothing to indicate he’s improved since his last appearances in England. There’s not a lot of reflection on his choices, just a lot of blaming others and excuses.
possibly, but I still get the feeling he is getting stick for walking out when he did. Many on here are saying he would have been better off staying.
Yes his career hasn't developed, but he did what most others would also have done, including me.
One thing he needs to stand up and admit though is that he has made poor decisions and his career is not going to plan, rather than just making excuses.
I think both you and gm make very good points that are not mutually exclusive, and I agree with both of you.
A couple caveats I'll add is that it does sound like the Argentina thing was shit luck. It seems there was a plan in place that fell through and he was the one who suffered (if things happened as he described them). I think there are a lot of things he can put his hand up and say "I could have done better," and maybe going there in the first place was a mistake, but the way things transpired were difficult and at the least the setup of the situation wasn't down to him.
I agree with you 1990 that he made a decision that a lot of people would make, and it does feel like he gets some stick for that (as well as for his arrogance). But I feel like 4-5 years ago things were different. It felt like we had far fewer cautionary tales of players going from playing regularly to big clubs and then being frozen out. I feel like now we can point to the loan lists of Chelsea and Manchester City et al, or look at young players who joined Chelsea and didn't progress fast enough, but I do think *back then* there was more focus on get to a big club as soon as you can.
It's not that I think he's blameless in all this, I'm kind of just trying to say that I think he made difficult decisions that turned out poorly more than he's made absolutely the wrong decision every time.
fewer yes, but I still think loyalty was almost non-existent 4/5 years ago
Of definitely, I think loyalty went long ago. If what Paddy is saying is true and he had the chance to earn exponentially more at other clubs, it's hard to fault him. You'd hope that loyalty would close a 10-20% gap in wages, not a 4-500% one (I know you're not making that point).
I can't believe people are giving Poyet stick. Even as a boyhood fan I would probably have left. Not just for the money but because Roland was and still very much is, a wanker.
No doubt his career hasn't turned out the way he hoped, nor is he being particularly truthful, but I don't blame him for leaving one bit.
He's not exactly in a minority though, most youngsters follow the money these days and it's not exactly a guaranteed path to success.
I don't think he's getting stick for leaving, he's getting stick for the fact his head doesn't seem to have ceased inflating since his first half season with us. All through that article he still comes across as a kid who thinks he should be running the show on the pitch. He left Charlton because he felt underappreciated, he left West Ham because he felt that the fact he played a bit of Europa League and scored a penalty in a shootout he should be playing in the first team in The Premier League and didn't want to wait around as he gets 'frustrated very easily' which isn't a great attribute in a developing player, especially as it doesn't look like he's doing anything to work on that. He then failed in three English loans, made a bad move abroad and now has played a little bit in Cyprus and gives the impression he's looking to get back to England even though he’s shown nothing to indicate he’s improved since his last appearances in England. There’s not a lot of reflection on his choices, just a lot of blaming others and excuses.
possibly, but I still get the feeling he is getting stick for walking out when he did. Many on here are saying he would have been better off staying.
Yes his career hasn't developed, but he did what most others would also have done, including me.
One thing he needs to stand up and admit though is that he has made poor decisions and his career is not going to plan, rather than just making excuses.
I think both you and gm make very good points that are not mutually exclusive, and I agree with both of you.
A couple caveats I'll add is that it does sound like the Argentina thing was shit luck. It seems there was a plan in place that fell through and he was the one who suffered (if things happened as he described them). I think there are a lot of things he can put his hand up and say "I could have done better," and maybe going there in the first place was a mistake, but the way things transpired were difficult and at the least the setup of the situation wasn't down to him.
I agree with you 1990 that he made a decision that a lot of people would make, and it does feel like he gets some stick for that (as well as for his arrogance). But I feel like 4-5 years ago things were different. It felt like we had far fewer cautionary tales of players going from playing regularly to big clubs and then being frozen out. I feel like now we can point to the loan lists of Chelsea and Manchester City et al, or look at young players who joined Chelsea and didn't progress fast enough, but I do think *back then* there was more focus on get to a big club as soon as you can.
It's not that I think he's blameless in all this, I'm kind of just trying to say that I think he made difficult decisions that turned out poorly more than he's made absolutely the wrong decision every time.
fewer yes, but I still think loyalty was almost non-existent 4/5 years ago
Of definitely, I think loyalty went long ago. If what Paddy is saying is true and he had the chance to earn exponentially more at other clubs, it's hard to fault him. You'd hope that loyalty would close a 10-20% gap in wages, not a 4-500% one (I know you're not making that point).
That's fine, but don't have a pop at Charlton when he knows full well they can't match that. He threw his career away, no sympathy for him. He could easily have joined a club where he'd play football, anyone could have told him he wouldn't get in a Sam Allardyce West Ham side.
He played in a really unusual position when he broke into our side. From memory he sat 10-15 yards behind our other central midfielders and rarely had any pressure on him when in possession. Perhaps that was what allowed him to shine and why he's flopped in other teams which (I assume) want him to play higher up the pitch in a more conventional role.
While playing as a very deep CDM gave him space and time, I still thought his awareness was amazing for such a young player. He got forward to smash Onoura on the way to Jacko's famous winner against QPR.
His first loan spell was at Huddersfield under SCP, and I couldn't believe how annonomous he was returning to The Valley with MK Dons.
Went to school with him. The arrogance thing is very true, mainly because he had some friends who 1) were dicks; and 2) ended up being huge sycophants, which can't have helped to deflate an ego.
He had a very, very good half season when he first broke through - no doubt about that. Our reticence to offer a contract, coupled with bigger clubs tapping him up (legally, though), means I have no real qualms about him leaving. He was offered at least £10k a week by one club, of that I'm certain - I think rumours of £20k are unsubstantiated, but he would've been on at least five times more than what CAFC were prepared to offer.
He's made several poor decisions, and several that with hindsight turned out to be poor. Was his personality part of it? Probably. Was poor advice part of it? Almost certainly.
Cheers for that Paddy. Ans a good reminder that when you're making huge decisions at 18/19/20 the people you're getting advice from are very important, and that when you're that age you may not understand whose advice you should trust.
Yes but you would think his old man would have steered him in the right direction given his 'inside knowledge.'
I'm really surprised at the blame Poyet is getting. I think he was stupid to think West Ham would be successful after just 20 games for us.
But come on. Do we really think, at a time when loads of our best players were being offered shit contracts or being sold, that the same didn't happen to him? Roland has had no respect for our club from day one, and clearly had no respect for the fan favourite players. Offering him a loan spell at Standard Liege highlights Roland's lack of understanding around the future of Poyet's career.
He was one of the most promising talents I've seen at Charlton, and to be honest, more promising than some that went on to do quite well in the Premier League. He has clearly made some awful decisions for his career. But I don't think leaving Charlton was one of them.
"Poyet is finally reigniting a career that promised plenty and stepping out of his father Gus' shadow by starring in the Cypriot First Division for Paphos."
When you are very young, break into a team and get voted player of the year, it should be a no brainer to stay with that team rather than go somewhere where you have to establish yourself. The team for the next season would probably have been built round him. I don't understand why he didn't get better advice from his father. Maybe he was just too confident in his ability, but irrespective of it being Charlton he left, it was a recklessly stupid personal decision.
When you are very young, break into a team and get voted player of the year, it should be a no brainer to stay with that team rather than go somewhere where you have to establish yourself. The team for the next season would probably have been built round him. I don't understand why he didn't get better advice from his father. Maybe he was just too confident in his ability, but irrespective of it being Charlton he left, it was a recklessly stupid personal decision.
I'm sure it was financial. It could have worked out and then we wouldn't be criticising him.
I'm really surprised at the blame Poyet is getting. I think he was stupid to think West Ham would be successful after just 20 games for us.
But come on. Do we really think, at a time when loads of our best players were being offered shit contracts or being sold, that the same didn't happen to him? Roland has had no respect for our club from day one, and clearly had no respect for the fan favourite players. Offering him a loan spell at Standard Liege highlights Roland's lack of understanding around the future of Poyet's career.
He was one of the most promising talents I've seen at Charlton, and to be honest, more promising than some that went on to do quite well in the Premier League. He has clearly made some awful decisions for his career. But I don't think leaving Charlton was one of them.
No players were forced out. Players may have moved on, but they're hardly victims, they make a career choice, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.
Bournemouth for example offered Yann a better deal than we did. We should have offered him a better deal (a terrible decision), but it's worth noting the horrendous losses Bournemouth were incurring around this period, the following season their wages of £30m were over double their turnover of £13m, resulting in a FFP fine of £7.6m.
When you are very young, break into a team and get voted player of the year, it should be a no brainer to stay with that team rather than go somewhere where you have to establish yourself. The team for the next season would probably have been built round him. I don't understand why he didn't get better advice from his father. Maybe he was just too confident in his ability, but irrespective of it being Charlton he left, it was a recklessly stupid personal decision.
Not necessarily, he probably earned more in that one move than with years at Charlton. I can't remember anyone seriously doubting his ability to step up.
He won't be the last player to leave a club thinking the grass will be greener. Purely from a football perspective, it's a shame that someone with such a bright future ahead of him failed so quickly at West Ham !! He could have been quality at Charlton. BUT, with the likes of Meire and Dutchalet running the club as they were, I cannot blame him for wanting out. When he came back to us on loan I was gobsmacked at how quickly his form had dropped. Did he decide to go or did his agent look at cashing in ? Just another scar on the club left by the RD/KM regime...
Comments
He was/is a water carrier but every team needs this type of player.
Lost his way big time but sad that a young player who had proved his worth at Cafc was offered a derisory offer as a championship player.
Given pelters by Charlton fans who believe players should stay despite a poor offer.
When he returned his confidence was low and the team were Rubbish. I had the misfortune to be at Hull when they were 6-0 up and declared after 80 minutes.
Surprised that Gus didn't help his lad by taking him under his wing but I guess he wanted Diego too stand on his own two feet.
Diego career is similar to John Bostock where early promise doesn't come to fruition.
At 23 still time to find a fetch and carry role at a decent level in football.
We simply do not know the offer to say it was derisory or not.
Derisory to Ronaldo would be £150k a week.
To a league 1 player it could be £500 a week.
To a championship player a few k a week.
After 20 games where he wasn't fantastic in every one and he was often supported and covered by cousins, I think he should have at least considered the offer. My understanding is that the offer of a loan was to make it seem more appealing to sign and still have the opportunity to play in other leagues.
Yes his career hasn't developed, but he did what most others would also have done, including me.
One thing he needs to stand up and admit though is that he has made poor decisions and his career is not going to plan, rather than just making excuses.
A couple caveats I'll add is that it does sound like the Argentina thing was shit luck. It seems there was a plan in place that fell through and he was the one who suffered (if things happened as he described them). I think there are a lot of things he can put his hand up and say "I could have done better," and maybe going there in the first place was a mistake, but the way things transpired were difficult and at the least the setup of the situation wasn't down to him.
I agree with you 1990 that he made a decision that a lot of people would make, and it does feel like he gets some stick for that (as well as for his arrogance). But I feel like 4-5 years ago things were different. It felt like we had far fewer cautionary tales of players going from playing regularly to big clubs and then being frozen out. I feel like now we can point to the loan lists of Chelsea and Manchester City et al, or look at young players who joined Chelsea and didn't progress fast enough, but I do think *back then* there was more focus on get to a big club as soon as you can.
It's not that I think he's blameless in all this, I'm kind of just trying to say that I think he made difficult decisions that turned out poorly more than he's made absolutely the wrong decision every time.
He had a very, very good half season when he first broke through - no doubt about that. Our reticence to offer a contract, coupled with bigger clubs tapping him up (legally, though), means I have no real qualms about him leaving. He was offered at least £10k a week by one club, of that I'm certain - I think rumours of £20k are unsubstantiated, but he would've been on at least five times more than what CAFC were prepared to offer.
He's made several poor decisions, and several that with hindsight turned out to be poor. Was his personality part of it? Probably. Was poor advice part of it? Almost certainly.
His first loan spell was at Huddersfield under SCP, and I couldn't believe how annonomous he was returning to The Valley with MK Dons.
If he gets it wrong what hope everyone else?
But come on. Do we really think, at a time when loads of our best players were being offered shit contracts or being sold, that the same didn't happen to him? Roland has had no respect for our club from day one, and clearly had no respect for the fan favourite players. Offering him a loan spell at Standard Liege highlights Roland's lack of understanding around the future of Poyet's career.
He was one of the most promising talents I've seen at Charlton, and to be honest, more promising than some that went on to do quite well in the Premier League. He has clearly made some awful decisions for his career. But I don't think leaving Charlton was one of them.
Is the writer deliberately taking the piss there?
I am surprised at how he's disappeared.
Bournemouth for example offered Yann a better deal than we did. We should have offered him a better deal (a terrible decision), but it's worth noting the horrendous losses Bournemouth were incurring around this period, the following season their wages of £30m were over double their turnover of £13m, resulting in a FFP fine of £7.6m.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36189779
Bournemouth gambled everything on promotion, paying players wages they couldn't afford. It could all have gone horribly wrong.