So, the European deal is not moving forward. Discussions have been halted.
That is the only verifiable fact that I have.
As for my comment last week which seems to have wound up a certain accountant, that comment was
Had a further message, which I had better leave until Monday to get further verified, because it is meltdown material.
Well it has not been verified. The buyer and the intermediary have not spoken in detail since the meeting, and the intermediary is now on holiday with his wife who has recently been very ill, and they need the break. There is also a second British adviser involved who was the source of the comment that was very concerning last week but it now seems that neither he nor the intermediary were actually in the meeting between the buyer and RD's people. Until the intermediary speaks with the buyer at length, he's not able to tell me (assuming he wants to) what exactly was the reason for the breakdown. It also occurred to me that they might on reflection not be open about the reason in case they infringe an NDA.
But patently this is not happening before the transfer window. Apart from anything else there is no Heads of Agreement reached so they can't go to the EFL.
Massively pissed off all round.
Thanks @PragueAddick for the update, despite it being bad news, again!! I think there will be no takeover this side of Christmas, if at all this season. RD will be the owner and LB will have to perform miracles on a shoestring budget. Next fans forum needs to really make LVT squirm and tell the bloody truth!!
What makes you think he will turn up, he will be too busy discussing takeovers with five potential buyers, or some other flimsy excuse
Copied from the minutes-: TR said that there will be another takeover update before the start of the
season if there has been no takeover • Provisional date for next full meeting: Wednesday, September 25th
So this fans forum on the takeover has to happen this week!!
What excuse will they make for not abiding by their own statements. They must have known last week the takeover was not happening, anyone had an invite yet to a Takeover fans forum meeting.............No!! well what a surprise!!
I think they mean an update posted on the website, rather than another meeting.
Then, if that's what they mean, they have 4 days to post an update....I'll take bets there will be absolute silence on the takeover. They could of course spin the same yarn there are 3 parties interested, but we know Dalman has walked, The Aussies have lost, yet another investor and now the Europeans have stopped talks, so unless there are 3 more (fantasy) groups, I fear we are screwed and RD will be here for the season. Perhaps someone can contact Jim White and let him know whats happened, after all he told everyone who is a Charlton supporter that we are being sold and we should be happy!!
Maybe the FF could request the aforementioned meeting takes place before the Blackburn match indicating their members have something of interest to share with LDT regarding the takeover.....
.....then proceed to inform him of what IS happening as clearly set out by @Redmidland.
His reaction would be worth watching.
Happy to tell him myself if anyone would like/allow me to. I've been fairly patient for the last 5 years, but the latest events have really 'peed me off', 60 years I've been supporting this club through thick and thin. 60 years I've seen good, very good, bad and very bad times......but I don't take kindly to being 'lied' to, by anyone, but being lied to by some young fucking upstart and his moronic boss is not something I'm prepared to sit back and take. If he is not willing to sell at a reasonable price, then bloody say so, don't make crap up just to appease people. In my working life, around the world, I've dealt with people like this before, and I'm more than happy to do so again, if only to get the truth!! The truth may hurt, but at least we know what he is truly doing.
I'm not prepared to go into too much detail, but I have met with two of RD's people before (not about takeovers before anyone asks) in a meeting at The Valley during midweek. I didn't tell anyone other than two close friends of mine who are CAFC supporters and are known to many on this forum. I set up the meeting myself and it was about RD's intentions for the club and the way he was treating the club, this was about 2 years ago. I've not spoken about it since, but needless to say it was obvious to me they were unable/unaware to answer my many questions in the main. I'm happy to try again if this situation continues for much longer.
The level of delusion on this thread is some times laughable and actually some times very worrying. Some normally sane and sensible people become almost irrational, no not almost, actually irrational.
The protests at home shouldn't have stopped for the simple reason nothing changed, when they start again we will look like spoilt brats, because they will start again when we are bottom of the championship.
Roland won't sell for less than the price he wants. In my OPINION he has agreed that price with at least one party, if not more. If that price is more than other people will agree to what's the point of him negotiating? If someone has agreed that price, no matter how inflated we think it is, he is entitled to either wait for them to pay it or tell him to stick it.
@AFKABartram is right, nothing we can do now will make him reduce the price, if he thinks that there is that offer on the table. It might make you feel better, but it won't actually achieve anything other than a rant on the official site.
Also if you think he is spending circa ten million a year just to piss you off, I suggest you go and seek help. You are either a narcissist or suffer from paranoia. If he is paying millions a year just to screw with @Airman Brown, the only fan I have ever known him name, I'll happily do it for "2%" if it means the twat sells the club.
The irony is he isn't killing the club but keeping it in a finance induced coma, giving it the bear minimum of life support to keep it breathing.
This is the first non distressed sale of our club in the last 25 years, I would happily wait another 6 months on the condition he to sells it to someone that can actually provide the vision and finance to improve things, not a short term "fix" like the spivs.
There is no reason for him not to want to sell, the "network" has gone, KM has gone. Owning Charlton Athletic Football Club has no benifit now for old Roland, it's a pure liability. But given the choice I would rather wait than gift the club to a Ken Anderson, Stuart Day, Tony Jimenez or Bill Archer.
You are right about most of what you say here.
Just less of the personal attacks and describing fans as deluded...
Then it would be a decent post.
The unnecessary digs and comments kind of ruin what you say here.
If it wasn't for that....then it would be close to fully accurate.
When will it all end! I’m 5000 miles away and still can’t stop checking here every 5 minutes!! And yet nothing happens.
rather than go for Marquis at £1m we’d be better served getting several loans at a combined £20k a week - that would be far more beneficial and same cost.
sadly it doesn’t appear either option is plausible
At least we now know that we have no takeover in the offering. And a squad no better, if not worse than last season. So it’s down to Bows to properly surprise me .......
The level of delusion on this thread is some times laughable and actually some times very worrying. Some normally sane and sensible people become almost irrational, no not almost, actually irrational.
The protests at home shouldn't have stopped for the simple reason nothing changed, when they start again we will look like spoilt brats, because they will start again when we are bottom of the championship.
Roland won't sell for less than the price he wants. In my OPINION he has agreed that price with at least one party, if not more. If that price is more than other people will agree to what's the point of him negotiating? If someone has agreed that price, no matter how inflated we think it is, he is entitled to either wait for them to pay it or tell him to stick it.
@AFKABartram is right, nothing we can do now will make him reduce the price, if he thinks that there is that offer on the table. It might make you feel better, but it won't actually achieve anything other than a rant on the official site.
Also if you think he is spending circa ten million a year just to piss you off, I suggest you go and seek help. You are either a narcissist or suffer from paranoia. If he is paying millions a year just to screw with @Airman Brown, the only fan I have ever known him name, I'll happily do it for "2%" if it means the twat sells the club.
The irony is he isn't killing the club but keeping it in a finance induced coma, giving it the bear minimum of life support to keep it breathing.
This is the first non distressed sale of our club in the last 25 years, I would happily wait another 6 months on the condition he to sells it to someone that can actually provide the vision and finance to improve things, not a short term "fix" like the spivs.
There is no reason for him not to want to sell, the "network" has gone, KM has gone. Owning Charlton Athletic Football Club has no benifit now for old Roland, it's a pure liability. But given the choice I would rather wait than gift the club to a Ken Anderson, Stuart Day, Tony Jimenez or Bill Archer.
You are right about most of what you say here.
Just less of the personal attacks and describing fans as deluded...
Then it would be a decent post.
The unnecessary digs and comments kind of ruin what you say here.
If it wasn't for that....then it would be close to fully accurate.
Sorry if you think there were personal digs, there certainly weren't towards the 2 people I named. I don't think you would have to scroll through to many pages to find good examples of what I was referring to. But glad you agree with most of it.
One feature of the protests has been about an expression of the feeling of some fans. It is seen as futile by some, almost therapeutic by others. It has not been my expectation really on any protesting I have done that it would lead to him selling, it has probably been more about trying to express in some way that one fan at least does not want to roll over and have his tummy tickled by him. Roland blithely foisted Fraeye on our club as if he thought it wouldn't matter to us, as Meire told us, Roland is the owner he can do as he wants. So if Roland can do what he wants as the owner, we can do what we want as fans as long as we exercise lawful constraint. If that means some deep blue kind of thinking is needed to help our next bit of self expression to be...err...satisfying, then we need to get creative thinking caps on. Not because it would directly force him to sell, but as some kind of memorable message, even if it is futile in some regards.
Billboards in his home town, he hates being embarrassed. Someone who is a dab hand with graphics to mock up some really annoying things that you know will piss him off, then get them up as close to his house, office hq and any other places that he frequents in his home town. I'd even go as far as local radio adverts, quoting his most ridiculous quotes, the man need to feel embarrassed and ridiculed.
The level of delusion on this thread is some times laughable and actually some times very worrying. Some normally sane and sensible people become almost irrational, no not almost, actually irrational.
The protests at home shouldn't have stopped for the simple reason nothing changed, when they start again we will look like spoilt brats, because they will start again when we are bottom of the championship.
Roland won't sell for less than the price he wants. In my OPINION he has agreed that price with at least one party, if not more. If that price is more than other people will agree to what's the point of him negotiating? If someone has agreed that price, no matter how inflated we think it is, he is entitled to either wait for them to pay it or tell him to stick it.
@AFKABartram is right, nothing we can do now will make him reduce the price, if he thinks that there is that offer on the table. It might make you feel better, but it won't actually achieve anything other than a rant on the official site.
Also if you think he is spending circa ten million a year just to piss you off, I suggest you go and seek help. You are either a narcissist or suffer from paranoia. If he is paying millions a year just to screw with @Airman Brown, the only fan I have ever known him name, I'll happily do it for "2%" if it means the twat sells the club.
The irony is he isn't killing the club but keeping it in a finance induced coma, giving it the bear minimum of life support to keep it breathing.
This is the first non distressed sale of our club in the last 25 years, I would happily wait another 6 months on the condition he to sells it to someone that can actually provide the vision and finance to improve things, not a short term "fix" like the spivs.
There is no reason for him not to want to sell, the "network" has gone, KM has gone. Owning Charlton Athletic Football Club has no benifit now for old Roland, it's a pure liability. But given the choice I would rather wait than gift the club to a Ken Anderson, Stuart Day, Tony Jimenez or Bill Archer.
Well, bully for you. Please let us know when you're given that choice.
Meanwhile, all other fans should be allowed to engage in whatever stratagems and ruses that give them succour. I haven't been out to protest in Belgium, but I am now very tempted. And, yes @AFKABartram has given his view that there's nothing individuals or groups can do to "make him sell". And, while he's fully entitled to his educated opinion, and while no-one has the right to say that his view is "wrong" (it's a view, after all) just because you agree with him doesn't make him "right".
In fact, a significantly increased set of protests - especially in his home town - seems very likely to make him redouble efforts to find buyers, or, at least, to treat those that have been found with due respect and consideration. I can tell you, for a fact, that whenever anyone offers me thirty million quid for something I own, I listen very, very carefully, before working out how hard to snatch their fucking hands off at the shoulder.
I respect your view, @Cafc43v3r - but allow me a counter argument. There are a lot of people posting on this forum and on this thread. I don't think anything anyone has posted deserves for them to be called laughable, worrying, irrational. I don't think anything anyone has posted on this thread marks them out as suffering delusion, narcissism or paranoia. And I don't think anyone "needs help". I think you're insulting, unnecessarily, several Charlton fans with that kind of language.
Here's my view. Yes, we could sit on our hands and wait for another six months in the hope that someone of whom we approve turns up like a shining knight and rescues the old club. But doing so would - in my view - take us six months closer to the extinction of the club. Because, in my view, the longer the current owner holds onto his stock, the closer Charlton Athletic is to going out of existence. We may have been close in 1984 and in 2014, but we heading sharply in that direction again now. The difference this time is there's a £30+million price tag attached to the club, and we're six months closer to being in a recession.
Everyone's free to make up their own minds. And I won't criticise anyone for having a different view. But those people who choose now as the time to accelerate, exacerbate and expatiate non-violent, but substantial, protests, both in London and Belgium, will earn my eternal admiration. The heroes that increase the volume and frequency of protests at this point are not deserving of opprobrium but appreciation bordering on bewildered awe.
We all want the same thing. I hope more people are deciding not to wait for it.
The level of delusion on this thread is some times laughable and actually some times very worrying. Some normally sane and sensible people become almost irrational, no not almost, actually irrational.
The protests at home shouldn't have stopped for the simple reason nothing changed, when they start again we will look like spoilt brats, because they will start again when we are bottom of the championship.
Roland won't sell for less than the price he wants. In my OPINION he has agreed that price with at least one party, if not more. If that price is more than other people will agree to what's the point of him negotiating? If someone has agreed that price, no matter how inflated we think it is, he is entitled to either wait for them to pay it or tell him to stick it.
@AFKABartram is right, nothing we can do now will make him reduce the price, if he thinks that there is that offer on the table. It might make you feel better, but it won't actually achieve anything other than a rant on the official site.
Also if you think he is spending circa ten million a year just to piss you off, I suggest you go and seek help. You are either a narcissist or suffer from paranoia. If he is paying millions a year just to screw with @Airman Brown, the only fan I have ever known him name, I'll happily do it for "2%" if it means the twat sells the club.
The irony is he isn't killing the club but keeping it in a finance induced coma, giving it the bear minimum of life support to keep it breathing.
This is the first non distressed sale of our club in the last 25 years, I would happily wait another 6 months on the condition he to sells it to someone that can actually provide the vision and finance to improve things, not a short term "fix" like the spivs.
There is no reason for him not to want to sell, the "network" has gone, KM has gone. Owning Charlton Athletic Football Club has no benifit now for old Roland, it's a pure liability. But given the choice I would rather wait than gift the club to a Ken Anderson, Stuart Day, Tony Jimenez or Bill Archer.
Well, bully for you. Please let us know when you're given that choice.
Meanwhile, all other fans should be allowed to engage in whatever stratagems and ruses that give them succour. I haven't been out to protest in Belgium, but I am now very tempted. And, yes @AFKABartram has given his view that there's nothing individuals or groups can do to "make him sell". And, while he's fully entitled to his educated opinion, and while no-one has the right to say that his view is "wrong" (it's a view, after all) just because you agree with him doesn't make him "right".
In fact, a significantly increased set of protests - especially in his home town - seems very likely to make him redouble efforts to find buyers, or, at least, to treat those that have been found with due respect and consideration. I can tell you, for a fact, that whenever anyone offers me thirty million quid for something I own, I listen very, very carefully, before working out how hard to snatch their fucking hands off at the shoulder.
I respect your view, @Cafc43v3r - but allow me a counter argument. There are a lot of people posting on this forum and on this thread. I don't think anything anyone has posted deserves for them to be called laughable, worrying, irrational. I don't think anything anyone has posted on this thread marks them out as suffering delusion, narcissism or paranoia. And I don't think anyone "needs help". I think you're insulting, unnecessarily, several Charlton fans with that kind of language.
Here's my view. Yes, we could sit on our hands and wait for another six months in the hope that someone of whom we approve turns up like a shining knight and rescues the old club. But doing so would - in my view - take us six months closer to the extinction of the club. Because, in my view, the longer the current owner holds onto his stock, the closer Charlton Athletic is to going out of existence. We may have been close in 1984 and in 2014, but we heading sharply in that direction again now. The difference this time is there's a £30+million price tag attached to the club, and we're six months closer to being in a recession.
Everyone's free to make up their own minds. And I won't criticise anyone for having a different view. But those people who choose now as the time to accelerate, exacerbate and expatiate non-violent, but substantial, protests, both in London and Belgium, will earn my eternal admiration. The heroes that increase the volume and frequency of protests at this point are not deserving of opprobrium but appreciation bordering on bewildered awe.
We all want the same thing. I hope more people are deciding not to wait for it.
Some very good points, I'll re read and digest in the morning. 2 quick points, for clarity.
How do you think the club will go out of business under the present ownership? At the moment it would cost him a lot of money and there is no risidual value?
If you don't think somethings on here are laughable or irrational I have either missed a joke you are in on or you have a better detection of sarcasm and irony than I do. I stand by my point that if some people honestly believe all of the things they write on here they at least need to have a long think about it.
The level of delusion on this thread is some times laughable and actually some times very worrying. Some normally sane and sensible people become almost irrational, no not almost, actually irrational.
The protests at home shouldn't have stopped for the simple reason nothing changed, when they start again we will look like spoilt brats, because they will start again when we are bottom of the championship.
Roland won't sell for less than the price he wants. In my OPINION he has agreed that price with at least one party, if not more. If that price is more than other people will agree to what's the point of him negotiating? If someone has agreed that price, no matter how inflated we think it is, he is entitled to either wait for them to pay it or tell him to stick it.
@AFKABartram is right, nothing we can do now will make him reduce the price, if he thinks that there is that offer on the table. It might make you feel better, but it won't actually achieve anything other than a rant on the official site.
Also if you think he is spending circa ten million a year just to piss you off, I suggest you go and seek help. You are either a narcissist or suffer from paranoia. If he is paying millions a year just to screw with @Airman Brown, the only fan I have ever known him name, I'll happily do it for "2%" if it means the twat sells the club.
The irony is he isn't killing the club but keeping it in a finance induced coma, giving it the bear minimum of life support to keep it breathing.
This is the first non distressed sale of our club in the last 25 years, I would happily wait another 6 months on the condition he to sells it to someone that can actually provide the vision and finance to improve things, not a short term "fix" like the spivs.
There is no reason for him not to want to sell, the "network" has gone, KM has gone. Owning Charlton Athletic Football Club has no benifit now for old Roland, it's a pure liability. But given the choice I would rather wait than gift the club to a Ken Anderson, Stuart Day, Tony Jimenez or Bill Archer.
Well, bully for you. Please let us know when you're given that choice.
Meanwhile, all other fans should be allowed to engage in whatever stratagems and ruses that give them succour. I haven't been out to protest in Belgium, but I am now very tempted. And, yes @AFKABartram has given his view that there's nothing individuals or groups can do to "make him sell". And, while he's fully entitled to his educated opinion, and while no-one has the right to say that his view is "wrong" (it's a view, after all) just because you agree with him doesn't make him "right".
In fact, a significantly increased set of protests - especially in his home town - seems very likely to make him redouble efforts to find buyers, or, at least, to treat those that have been found with due respect and consideration. I can tell you, for a fact, that whenever anyone offers me thirty million quid for something I own, I listen very, very carefully, before working out how hard to snatch their fucking hands off at the shoulder.
I respect your view, @Cafc43v3r - but allow me a counter argument. There are a lot of people posting on this forum and on this thread. I don't think anything anyone has posted deserves for them to be called laughable, worrying, irrational. I don't think anything anyone has posted on this thread marks them out as suffering delusion, narcissism or paranoia. And I don't think anyone "needs help". I think you're insulting, unnecessarily, several Charlton fans with that kind of language.
Here's my view. Yes, we could sit on our hands and wait for another six months in the hope that someone of whom we approve turns up like a shining knight and rescues the old club. But doing so would - in my view - take us six months closer to the extinction of the club. Because, in my view, the longer the current owner holds onto his stock, the closer Charlton Athletic is to going out of existence. We may have been close in 1984 and in 2014, but we heading sharply in that direction again now. The difference this time is there's a £30+million price tag attached to the club, and we're six months closer to being in a recession.
Everyone's free to make up their own minds. And I won't criticise anyone for having a different view. But those people who choose now as the time to accelerate, exacerbate and expatiate non-violent, but substantial, protests, both in London and Belgium, will earn my eternal admiration. The heroes that increase the volume and frequency of protests at this point are not deserving of opprobrium but appreciation bordering on bewildered awe.
We all want the same thing. I hope more people are deciding not to wait for it.
Some very good points, I'll re read and digest in the morning. 2 quick points, for clarity.
How do you think the club will go out of business under the present ownership? At the moment it would cost him a lot of money and there is no risidual value?
If you don't think somethings on here are laughable or irrational I have either missed a joke you are in on or you have a better detection of sarcasm and irony than I do. I stand by my point that if some people honestly believe all of the things they write on here they at least need to have a long think about it.
I'll answer the one very good point you made, which is with regards to the club going "out of business" while he remains owner; and then turn my attention to the other one.
It's a depreciating asset all the time he owns the club. Notwithstanding the imaginative mathematics employed by Napa, as the club haemorrhages revenue, its value drops. Almost everyone understands and follows that. But, concurrently, he's turning away significant offers and realising significant costs. If the club is worth - say - £30m now and it's losing - say - £10m a year, how much is it worth a year from now? Or three years? At some point, the club and its goodwill will be worth significantly less than its individual assets. That point has probably already arrived. And, in fact, he's pretty much determined that with his madcap idea of "giving the club away", but retaining the real estate elements.
So, right now, it could be argued that the club is worth nothing and losing £10m a year; and the real estate assets are likely to be hit by a no deal Brexit driven recession (and, yes I know that a no deal is not a certainty; but I wouldn't put any money on the current owner being able to forecast accurately the outcome of the Brexit negotiations either). If separated the club from the real estate assets he could have two businesses; one which loses money, one which has real estate assets. Is it too far fetched to imagine he could then put the club into administration to avoid the ongoing costs he is racking up?
In the last year, he has failed to sell. In the year before that, he failed to sell. Is there any indication that he is likely to be able to turn around the single most important thing he has on his to do list, having spent two (plus) years failing to deliver it? I think not. Is Charlton solvent right now? Some people are far better-placed than me to determine that. But I struggle to see how it is.
In 1984 and in 2014, Charlton was in absolutely dire straits. It was losing more money than it could afford, but, both times, the owners executed an emergency, last minute rescue plan. Currently, we are in the same position, but without the plan.
Onto your other point.
I have criticised you for using the phrases laughable, worrying, irrational, suffering delusion, narcissism, paranoia and saying that people "need help". You've directly criticised the people, not the things they have said. You did not say that "some things posted on here are laughable or delusional". Had you said that - and just that - I wouldn't have offered criticism. But you actually posted "the level of delusion on this thread is some times laughable". I don't think that's any way to talk to or about Charlton fans. I stand by my point that it's not a good thing to offer unsubstantiated and unpleasant insults to other Charlton fans. Maybe we simply differ on that point.
Lastly - he'll be gone sooner, rather than later. Maybe not as soon as most of us wish. But I think he's edging closer, albeit very, very slowly. I hope you'll agree that's a good thing.
De-press-ing. Something is going to be in the press.
Depressing. It's something worth singing about.
Depress. Meaning to reduce the level or strength of activity in something. The price will be depressed, ie reduced.
I'm going. Literally "I won't be here any more", or "I have nothing further to reveal" or "I have foretold everything" or "it is all at an end".
going to. Going, or attending, for example a football match. Clearly, this can't refer to the current owner, as he doesn't attend matches at Charlton. It must mean the new owners.
bed. Literally, developing a close association, e.g. getting in to bed with business partners, as (for example) a consortium
De-press-ing. Something is going to be in the press.
Depressing. It's something worth singing about.
Depress. Meaning to reduce the level or strength of activity in something. The price will be depressed, ie reduced.
I'm going. Literally "I won't be here any more", or "I have nothing further to reveal" or "I have foretold everything" or "it is all at an end".
going to. Going, or attending, for example a football match. Clearly, this can't refer to the current owner, as he doesn't attend matches at Charlton. It must mean the new owners.
bed. Literally, developing a close association, e.g. getting in to bed with business partners, as (for example) a consortium
There really is a hell of a lot of hot air expelled on here.
Point scoring, black catting and faux outrage.....blah blah blah.
All the while people argue, the more depressing it all becomes as those who love the club tear themselves further and further apart.
If the nonsensical bickering on here is anything to go by, the protesting “heroes” really do have a job on their hands if they are ever to have a tangible chance of successfully ousting the owner.
see you in another couple hundred of pages or so as I can’t be bothered to find out what fabulously intelligent acronym can be made out of Boring As Shit.
The club is very unlikely to lose £10m in 2019/20 - In fact I’ll hazard a guess that it will make a profit, possibly an operating profit.
And this is one of the reasons he's not in hurry to sell. David white mentioned 6 months ago that RD didn't want promotion because of the extra costs of player salaries & transfer fees. But what none of us thought was that he just wouldnt pay any & make LB cobble a squad together like he did last season. It's probably costing RD LESS this season to run the squad than last, having got a couple of high earners of the payroll as well as having less playing staff and paying any incoming players less than in League 1. You have to admit RD is a genius.
I am intrigued to hear that Charlton might turn a profit. So if the debt was also being serviced in terms of interest payments as part of the equation, it is a question of how much profit and what it is spent on. Although it might be an uncomfortable reality to acknowledge, to get in balance costs and income is a rare thing in football, and if Roland achieves that (even at the price of footballing results disaster) there is some kind of something to be respected about being in such a situation. If profitable, would the profits be spent on improvements?
The level of delusion on this thread is some times laughable and actually some times very worrying. Some normally sane and sensible people become almost irrational, no not almost, actually irrational.
The protests at home shouldn't have stopped for the simple reason nothing changed, when they start again we will look like spoilt brats, because they will start again when we are bottom of the championship.
Roland won't sell for less than the price he wants. In my OPINION he has agreed that price with at least one party, if not more. If that price is more than other people will agree to what's the point of him negotiating? If someone has agreed that price, no matter how inflated we think it is, he is entitled to either wait for them to pay it or tell him to stick it.
@AFKABartram is right, nothing we can do now will make him reduce the price, if he thinks that there is that offer on the table. It might make you feel better, but it won't actually achieve anything other than a rant on the official site.
Also if you think he is spending circa ten million a year just to piss you off, I suggest you go and seek help. You are either a narcissist or suffer from paranoia. If he is paying millions a year just to screw with @Airman Brown, the only fan I have ever known him name, I'll happily do it for "2%" if it means the twat sells the club.
The irony is he isn't killing the club but keeping it in a finance induced coma, giving it the bear minimum of life support to keep it breathing.
This is the first non distressed sale of our club in the last 25 years, I would happily wait another 6 months on the condition he to sells it to someone that can actually provide the vision and finance to improve things, not a short term "fix" like the spivs.
There is no reason for him not to want to sell, the "network" has gone, KM has gone. Owning Charlton Athletic Football Club has no benifit now for old Roland, it's a pure liability. But given the choice I would rather wait than gift the club to a Ken Anderson, Stuart Day, Tony Jimenez or Bill Archer.
Well, bully for you. Please let us know when you're given that choice.
Meanwhile, all other fans should be allowed to engage in whatever stratagems and ruses that give them succour. I haven't been out to protest in Belgium, but I am now very tempted. And, yes @AFKABartram has given his view that there's nothing individuals or groups can do to "make him sell". And, while he's fully entitled to his educated opinion, and while no-one has the right to say that his view is "wrong" (it's a view, after all) just because you agree with him doesn't make him "right".
In fact, a significantly increased set of protests - especially in his home town - seems very likely to make him redouble efforts to find buyers, or, at least, to treat those that have been found with due respect and consideration. I can tell you, for a fact, that whenever anyone offers me thirty million quid for something I own, I listen very, very carefully, before working out how hard to snatch their fucking hands off at the shoulder.
I respect your view, @Cafc43v3r - but allow me a counter argument. There are a lot of people posting on this forum and on this thread. I don't think anything anyone has posted deserves for them to be called laughable, worrying, irrational. I don't think anything anyone has posted on this thread marks them out as suffering delusion, narcissism or paranoia. And I don't think anyone "needs help". I think you're insulting, unnecessarily, several Charlton fans with that kind of language.
Here's my view. Yes, we could sit on our hands and wait for another six months in the hope that someone of whom we approve turns up like a shining knight and rescues the old club. But doing so would - in my view - take us six months closer to the extinction of the club. Because, in my view, the longer the current owner holds onto his stock, the closer Charlton Athletic is to going out of existence. We may have been close in 1984 and in 2014, but we heading sharply in that direction again now. The difference this time is there's a £30+million price tag attached to the club, and we're six months closer to being in a recession.
Everyone's free to make up their own minds. And I won't criticise anyone for having a different view. But those people who choose now as the time to accelerate, exacerbate and expatiate non-violent, but substantial, protests, both in London and Belgium, will earn my eternal admiration. The heroes that increase the volume and frequency of protests at this point are not deserving of opprobrium but appreciation bordering on bewildered awe.
We all want the same thing. I hope more people are deciding not to wait for it.
Some very good points, I'll re read and digest in the morning. 2 quick points, for clarity.
How do you think the club will go out of business under the present ownership? At the moment it would cost him a lot of money and there is no risidual value?
If you don't think somethings on here are laughable or irrational I have either missed a joke you are in on or you have a better detection of sarcasm and irony than I do. I stand by my point that if some people honestly believe all of the things they write on here they at least need to have a long think about it.
I'll answer the one very good point you made, which is with regards to the club going "out of business" while he remains owner; and then turn my attention to the other one.
It's a depreciating asset all the time he owns the club. Notwithstanding the imaginative mathematics employed by Napa, as the club haemorrhages revenue, its value drops. Almost everyone understands and follows that. But, concurrently, he's turning away significant offers and realising significant costs. If the club is worth - say - £30m now and it's losing - say - £10m a year, how much is it worth a year from now? Or three years? At some point, the club and its goodwill will be worth significantly less than its individual assets. That point has probably already arrived. And, in fact, he's pretty much determined that with his madcap idea of "giving the club away", but retaining the real estate elements.
So, right now, it could be argued that the club is worth nothing and losing £10m a year; and the real estate assets are likely to be hit by a no deal Brexit driven recession (and, yes I know that a no deal is not a certainty; but I wouldn't put any money on the current owner being able to forecast accurately the outcome of the Brexit negotiations either). If separated the club from the real estate assets he could have two businesses; one which loses money, one which has real estate assets. Is it too far fetched to imagine he could then put the club into administration to avoid the ongoing costs he is racking up?
In the last year, he has failed to sell. In the year before that, he failed to sell. Is there any indication that he is likely to be able to turn around the single most important thing he has on his to do list, having spent two (plus) years failing to deliver it? I think not. Is Charlton solvent right now? Some people are far better-placed than me to determine that. But I struggle to see how it is.
In 1984 and in 2014, Charlton was in absolutely dire straits. It was losing more money than it could afford, but, both times, the owners executed an emergency, last minute rescue plan. Currently, we are in the same position, but without the plan.
Onto your other point.
I have criticised you for using the phrases laughable, worrying, irrational, suffering delusion, narcissism, paranoia and saying that people "need help". You've directly criticised the people, not the things they have said. You did not say that "some things posted on here are laughable or delusional". Had you said that - and just that - I wouldn't have offered criticism. But you actually posted "the level of delusion on this thread is some times laughable". I don't think that's any way to talk to or about Charlton fans. I stand by my point that it's not a good thing to offer unsubstantiated and unpleasant insults to other Charlton fans. Maybe we simply differ on that point.
Lastly - he'll be gone sooner, rather than later. Maybe not as soon as most of us wish. But I think he's edging closer, albeit very, very slowly. I hope you'll agree that's a good thing.
I would say Charlton’s main asset at the moment is being one promotion away from the most lucrative league in world football. That does not diminish as long as they remain in the championship.
The club is very unlikely to lose £10m in 2019/20 - In fact I’ll hazard a guess that it will make a profit, possibly an operating profit.
And this is one of the reasons he's not in hurry to sell. David white mentioned 6 months ago that RD didn't want promotion because of the extra costs of player salaries & transfer fees. But what none of us thought was that he just wouldnt pay any & make LB cobble a squad together like he did last season. It's probably costing RD LESS this season to run the squad than last, having got a couple of high earners of the payroll as well as having less playing staff and paying any incoming players less than in League 1. You have to admit RD is a genius.
Personally I always thought he would be better off in the Championship because he wouldn’t spend all the extra income, but I did think he would spend some. The problem is, as ever, he uses wishful thinking, aka self-delusion, to avoid facing up to the likely consequences of his actions.
Clubs with Charlton’s current playing budget in the Championship go down (every time, within two years) - and when they do their value drops because they are more distant from the PL honeypot and they lose the extra central income, opening up the operating loss again.
Duchatelet is on a rinse and repeat cycle and he and we have to hope that Bowyer call stall it. It will be very difficult.
The only way I see us getting Roland to sell up is if we go back to Belgium with Standard Liege levels of protesting. It’s the only thing that gets to him.
One feature of the protests has been about an expression of the feeling of some fans. It is seen as futile by some, almost therapeutic by others. It has not been my expectation really on any protesting I have done that it would lead to him selling, it has probably been more about trying to express in some way that one fan at least does not want to roll over and have his tummy tickled by him. Roland blithely foisted Fraeye on our club as if he thought it wouldn't matter to us, as Meire told us, Roland is the owner he can do as he wants. So if Roland can do what he wants as the owner, we can do what we want as fans as long as we exercise lawful constraint. If that means some deep blue kind of thinking is needed to help our next bit of self expression to be...err...satisfying, then we need to get creative thinking caps on. Not because it would directly force him to sell, but as some kind of memorable message, even if it is futile in some regards.
Billboards in his home town, he hates being embarrassed. Someone who is a dab hand with graphics to mock up some really annoying things that you know will piss him off, then get them up as close to his house, office hq and any other places that he frequents in his home town. I'd even go as far as local radio adverts, quoting his most ridiculous quotes, the man need to feel embarrassed and ridiculed.
That picture of him from FaceApp looking seriously aged alongside the original picture saying it takes time to sell the club would look awesome on billboards around his area. Probably wouldn't be allowed though!
Comments
If he is not willing to sell at a reasonable price, then bloody say so, don't make crap up just to appease people.
In my working life, around the world, I've dealt with people like this before, and I'm more than happy to do so again, if only to get the truth!! The truth may hurt, but at least we know what he is truly doing.
I'm not prepared to go into too much detail, but I have met with two of RD's people before (not about takeovers before anyone asks) in a meeting at The Valley during midweek. I didn't tell anyone other than two close friends of mine who are CAFC supporters and are known to many on this forum.
I set up the meeting myself and it was about RD's intentions for the club and the way he was treating the club, this was about 2 years ago. I've not spoken about it since, but needless to say it was obvious to me they were unable/unaware to answer my many questions in the main. I'm happy to try again if this situation continues for much longer.
You are right about most of what you say here.
Just less of the personal attacks and describing fans as deluded...
Then it would be a decent post.
The unnecessary digs and comments kind of ruin what you say here.
If it wasn't for that....then it would be close to fully accurate.
rather than go for Marquis at £1m we’d be better served getting several loans at a combined £20k a week - that would be far more beneficial and same cost.
sadly it doesn’t appear either option is plausible
Meanwhile, all other fans should be allowed to engage in whatever stratagems and ruses that give them succour. I haven't been out to protest in Belgium, but I am now very tempted. And, yes @AFKABartram has given his view that there's nothing individuals or groups can do to "make him sell". And, while he's fully entitled to his educated opinion, and while no-one has the right to say that his view is "wrong" (it's a view, after all) just because you agree with him doesn't make him "right".
In fact, a significantly increased set of protests - especially in his home town - seems very likely to make him redouble efforts to find buyers, or, at least, to treat those that have been found with due respect and consideration. I can tell you, for a fact, that whenever anyone offers me thirty million quid for something I own, I listen very, very carefully, before working out how hard to snatch their fucking hands off at the shoulder.
I respect your view, @Cafc43v3r - but allow me a counter argument. There are a lot of people posting on this forum and on this thread. I don't think anything anyone has posted deserves for them to be called laughable, worrying, irrational. I don't think anything anyone has posted on this thread marks them out as suffering delusion, narcissism or paranoia. And I don't think anyone "needs help". I think you're insulting, unnecessarily, several Charlton fans with that kind of language.
Here's my view. Yes, we could sit on our hands and wait for another six months in the hope that someone of whom we approve turns up like a shining knight and rescues the old club. But doing so would - in my view - take us six months closer to the extinction of the club. Because, in my view, the longer the current owner holds onto his stock, the closer Charlton Athletic is to going out of existence. We may have been close in 1984 and in 2014, but we heading sharply in that direction again now. The difference this time is there's a £30+million price tag attached to the club, and we're six months closer to being in a recession.
Everyone's free to make up their own minds. And I won't criticise anyone for having a different view. But those people who choose now as the time to accelerate, exacerbate and expatiate non-violent, but substantial, protests, both in London and Belgium, will earn my eternal admiration. The heroes that increase the volume and frequency of protests at this point are not deserving of opprobrium but appreciation bordering on bewildered awe.
We all want the same thing. I hope more people are deciding not to wait for it.
How do you think the club will go out of business under the present ownership? At the moment it would cost him a lot of money and there is no risidual value?
If you don't think somethings on here are laughable or irrational I have either missed a joke you are in on or you have a better detection of sarcasm and irony than I do. I stand by my point that if some people honestly believe all of the things they write on here they at least need to have a long think about it.
It's a depreciating asset all the time he owns the club. Notwithstanding the imaginative mathematics employed by Napa, as the club haemorrhages revenue, its value drops. Almost everyone understands and follows that. But, concurrently, he's turning away significant offers and realising significant costs. If the club is worth - say - £30m now and it's losing - say - £10m a year, how much is it worth a year from now? Or three years? At some point, the club and its goodwill will be worth significantly less than its individual assets. That point has probably already arrived. And, in fact, he's pretty much determined that with his madcap idea of "giving the club away", but retaining the real estate elements.
So, right now, it could be argued that the club is worth nothing and losing £10m a year; and the real estate assets are likely to be hit by a no deal Brexit driven recession (and, yes I know that a no deal is not a certainty; but I wouldn't put any money on the current owner being able to forecast accurately the outcome of the Brexit negotiations either). If separated the club from the real estate assets he could have two businesses; one which loses money, one which has real estate assets. Is it too far fetched to imagine he could then put the club into administration to avoid the ongoing costs he is racking up?
In the last year, he has failed to sell. In the year before that, he failed to sell. Is there any indication that he is likely to be able to turn around the single most important thing he has on his to do list, having spent two (plus) years failing to deliver it? I think not. Is Charlton solvent right now? Some people are far better-placed than me to determine that. But I struggle to see how it is.
In 1984 and in 2014, Charlton was in absolutely dire straits. It was losing more money than it could afford, but, both times, the owners executed an emergency, last minute rescue plan. Currently, we are in the same position, but without the plan.
Onto your other point.
I have criticised you for using the phrases laughable, worrying, irrational, suffering delusion, narcissism, paranoia and saying that people "need help". You've directly criticised the people, not the things they have said. You did not say that "some things posted on here are laughable or delusional". Had you said that - and just that - I wouldn't have offered criticism. But you actually posted "the level of delusion on this thread is some times laughable". I don't think that's any way to talk to or about Charlton fans. I stand by my point that it's not a good thing to offer unsubstantiated and unpleasant insults to other Charlton fans. Maybe we simply differ on that point.
Lastly - he'll be gone sooner, rather than later. Maybe not as soon as most of us wish. But I think he's edging closer, albeit very, very slowly. I hope you'll agree that's a good thing.
De-press-ing. Something is going to be in the press.
Depressing. It's something worth singing about.
Depress. Meaning to reduce the level or strength of activity in something. The price will be depressed, ie reduced.
I'm going. Literally "I won't be here any more", or "I have nothing further to reveal" or "I have foretold everything" or "it is all at an end".
going to. Going, or attending, for example a football match. Clearly, this can't refer to the current owner, as he doesn't attend matches at Charlton. It must mean the new owners.
bed. Literally, developing a close association, e.g. getting in to bed with business partners, as (for example) a consortium
Depressing. I'm Going to Bed = DIGB = District Interoperability Governance Board - http://idahocounty.org/planb/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/DIGB2-_May-25th-Agenda.pdf (note date: 25 May - anniversary of Charlton's most lucrative ever match).
Your clues are getting far too easy, @JamesSeed
Point scoring, black catting and faux outrage.....blah blah blah.
All the while people argue, the more depressing it all becomes as those who love the club tear themselves further and further apart.
If the nonsensical bickering on here is anything to go by, the protesting “heroes” really do have a job on their hands if they are ever to have a tangible chance of successfully ousting the owner.
see you in another couple hundred of pages or so as I can’t be bothered to find out what fabulously intelligent acronym can be made out of Boring As Shit.
So if the debt was also being serviced in terms of interest payments as part of the equation, it is a question of how much profit and what it is spent on.
Although it might be an uncomfortable reality to acknowledge, to get in balance costs and income is a rare thing in football, and if Roland achieves that (even at the price of footballing results disaster) there is some kind of something to be respected about being in such a situation.
If profitable, would the profits be spent on improvements?
Clubs with Charlton’s current playing budget in the Championship go down (every time, within two years) - and when they do their value drops because they are more distant from the PL honeypot and they lose the extra central income, opening up the operating loss again.
Duchatelet is on a rinse and repeat cycle and he and we have to hope that Bowyer call stall it. It will be very difficult.