We all love Jonny, but please don't. We need a type of player who can play 100 minutes if needed. Jonny Williams was down to 60 minutes on a good day when at Cafc. He has been released from Swindon, a league two club for a reason; unlikely to be wages as has been mentioned Jonny earned a great wage at Palace and hasn't squandered it.
As we have released Morgan, Clare and Inniss who were good enough to help Cafc achieved 10th which may be piss poor but I can only assume we are bringing in half a dozen players that are top six quality ?
If we don't we will be bottom six again by the time November comes around. History keeps repeating itself over the last few seasons.
Totally agree with your comments,perhaps my judgement is clouded by his game changing contribution at Wembley when he came on for the last 25 minutes.This year we have had no one on the bench who could come on and make a difference,Jonny is only 29 ,and I think used used sparingly could give us the edge in tight games,especially late in the day when the lesser talented teams begin to slow down and become vulnerable.
There's a reason he was on the bench that day. But that was years ago now, and so he's only got older since.
Yeah because he had been injured for months and it was a race against time to get him to be in a situation to do half an hour.
I am probably Johnny's biggest fan. He is a uniquely gift footballer, who, for what ever reason isn't actually that effective at football.
Put him in the right place, with the right players and he is a good to decent championship player. Take any of those variables away and he is lower league 1.
If you have a pair of split strikers that have pace, movement and can score goals another midfielder that can run past him and someone that can give him the ball, he is brilliant. Ask him to do "a job" he is really quite poor.
Compare him to Fraser, I know people will sight goals and assists, but Williams has a much higher ceiling but a much lower floor. Add in the fact he is very fragile he is a luxury, even if you have the right other ingredients to make it work.
I think he is a much better player than a lot of people give him credit for, I also think I could never actually justify signing him.
I think people misremember a lot of the 18/19 season. If you ask fans they'd tell you that we had this unstoppable midfield of Bielik, Cullen, Aribo and Williams, but the reality is we were pretty poor at times before January and we didn't see that combination all that regularly. Williams didn't sign until January but even before that Cullen dislocated his shoulder and Bielik went through phases of form and Bowyer outbursts. We used a really wide combination of midfielders. Ward, Lapslie, Pratley, Fosu, Marshall and Reeves all played more than I think most people realise, often due to Williams' fitness. Aside from that being a good argument for why we need squad players, Williams did alright that half season but he only got one assist. It was the start of the 19/20 season that he was brilliant and I think that little run is what people picture when they remember him for us. Absolutely unplayable, made us look like a really dangerous team every time we got the ball. 4 assists in the first 5 games and 5 in 12 overall when his fitness was already starting to come up as an issue again. He was injured after that and that really was the end of his time as an effective Championship player. After Covid when we were short on players and needed to grind out results (which we didn't) Bowyer didn't trust him to get things done and he was pretty poor when he played. As you say, in teh right spot he was excellent, and that brief period where we were newly in the league, confident and playing without fear he was incredible. It was just all too brief
I think the play off final was only the 2nd time that team had ever played together the first being the second leg of the semis.
Aribo, Grant and Williams never played in the same team together.
One of the contributing factors to him getting injured was he was getting kicked all over the place because he was playing so well.
When he came back from injury Gallagher had gone, Leko was injured and the emergance of Doughty ment we scrapped the diamond. We never really played it again, which finish Williams and Ozumers Charlton careers.
If life was fair we could have gone through a full season with a diamond of Field, Cullen, Gallagher and WIlliams/Kayal. Instead we got to enjoy a flat 4 of Pratley, Cullen, Morgan and McGeady. Life is pain.
Weirdly both Williams and Inniss have been virtually injury free this last season, and both have been playing decent minutes in games too, rather than being regularly subbed early to protect them.
I really liked him when we first signed him and the season we spent in the Championship. It would be pointless to resign him now. As others have mentioned, the injuries have taken their toll and I’m not sure to what extent we’ll get much magic out of him.
Unfortunately, in the last season he was with us, with each game his impact faded gradually. You would get a bit of excitement when he got the ball, but he usually managed to carry it a few yards before at most being fouled. A shame because very talented and a good person as well.
Weirdly both Williams and Inniss have been virtually injury free this last season, and both have been playing decent minutes in games too, rather than being regularly subbed early to protect them.
If only the same could be said about Chuks...
.... and they've both been released. Punishment for showcasing themselves more!
I really liked him when we first signed him and the season we spent in the Championship. It would be pointless to resign him now. As others have mentioned, the injuries have taken their toll and I’m not sure to what extent we’ll get much magic out of him.
Unfortunately, in the last season he was with us, with each game his impact faded gradually. You would get a bit of excitement when he got the ball, but he usually managed to carry it a few yards before at most being fouled. A shame because very talented and a good person as well.
Fortunately he came on at Wembley, he changed the game.
I hope we dont sign him, i thought he was dreadfully lightweight when he should of been in his physical prime so lords knows how his body will ve after the injuries, also he showed his attitude when Bowyer criticised him and he resorted to posting indirects on social media like a teenage girl instead of speaking to him.
I hope we dont sign him, i thought he was dreadfully lightweight when he should of been in his physical prime so lords knows how his body will ve after the injuries, also he showed his attitude when Bowyer criticised him and he resorted to posting indirects on social media like a teenage girl instead of speaking to him.
What Jonny was subjected to by Bowyer was bullying not criticising, several senior players had to intervene.
I hope we dont sign him, i thought he was dreadfully lightweight when he should of been in his physical prime so lords knows how his body will ve after the injuries, also he showed his attitude when Bowyer criticised him and he resorted to posting indirects on social media like a teenage girl instead of speaking to him.
What Jonny was subjected to by Bowyer was bullying not criticising, several senior players had to intervene.
Thats a very weak interpretation of bullying. Bowyer publicly stated a fact which was Williams bottled out of a challenge. Also it doesnt change the fact that Williams choice to respond to Bowyer was to post indirects on social media which isnt really hwo a man should deal with things.
I hope we dont sign him, i thought he was dreadfully lightweight when he should of been in his physical prime so lords knows how his body will ve after the injuries, also he showed his attitude when Bowyer criticised him and he resorted to posting indirects on social media like a teenage girl instead of speaking to him.
What Jonny was subjected to by Bowyer was bullying not criticising, several senior players had to intervene.
Thats a very weak interpretation of bullying. Bowyer publicly stated a fact which was Williams bottled out of a challenge. Also it doesnt change the fact that Williams choice to respond to Bowyer was to post indirects on social media which isnt really hwo a man should deal with things.
The "he bottled a challenge" comment is not the bullying I was referring to. Bowyer can be an aggressive individual, perhaps Jonny felt intimidated in continuing the confrontation in person.
Both Darren Pratley and Ben Watson felt LB's behaviour was over the line and both had to step in, would they do that if it was just a bit of criticism?
Sadly not every one can "deal with things like a man" whatever that even means.
I hope we dont sign him, i thought he was dreadfully lightweight when he should of been in his physical prime so lords knows how his body will ve after the injuries, also he showed his attitude when Bowyer criticised him and he resorted to posting indirects on social media like a teenage girl instead of speaking to him.
What Jonny was subjected to by Bowyer was bullying not criticising, several senior players had to intervene.
Thats a very weak interpretation of bullying. Bowyer publicly stated a fact which was Williams bottled out of a challenge. Also it doesnt change the fact that Williams choice to respond to Bowyer was to post indirects on social media which isnt really hwo a man should deal with things.
The "he bottled a challenge" comment is not the bullying I was referring to. Bowyer can be an aggressive individual, perhaps Jonny felt intimidated in continuing the confrontation in person.
Both Darren Pratley and Ben Watson felt LB's behaviour was over the line and both had to step in, would they do that if it was just a bit of criticism?
Sadly not every one can "deal with things like a man" whatever that even means.
How do you know pratley and watson stepped in ?
Im sorey it tells me everything i need to know about his character, he felt intimidated so went online and posted indirects like a teenager.
Like a man i mean with dignity and self-respect. Go and speak to the person directly you have an issue with.
Also you say his behaviour was over the line yet havent stated one example where his behaviour was over the line ?
I hope we dont sign him, i thought he was dreadfully lightweight when he should of been in his physical prime so lords knows how his body will ve after the injuries, also he showed his attitude when Bowyer criticised him and he resorted to posting indirects on social media like a teenage girl instead of speaking to him.
What Jonny was subjected to by Bowyer was bullying not criticising, several senior players had to intervene.
Thats a very weak interpretation of bullying. Bowyer publicly stated a fact which was Williams bottled out of a challenge. Also it doesnt change the fact that Williams choice to respond to Bowyer was to post indirects on social media which isnt really hwo a man should deal with things.
The "he bottled a challenge" comment is not the bullying I was referring to. Bowyer can be an aggressive individual, perhaps Jonny felt intimidated in continuing the confrontation in person.
Both Darren Pratley and Ben Watson felt LB's behaviour was over the line and both had to step in, would they do that if it was just a bit of criticism?
Sadly not every one can "deal with things like a man" whatever that even means.
How do you know pratley and watson stepped in ?
Im sorey it tells me everything i need to know about his character, he felt intimidated so went online and posted indirects like a teenager.
Like a man i mean with dignity and self-respect. Go and speak to the person directly you have an issue with.
Also you say his behaviour was over the line yet havent stated one example where his behaviour was over the line ?
I know what happened because I personally know one of the people involved very well.
You may be the kind of person who doesn't get intimidated when someone is aggressively shouting in your face, however a large amount of people will be.
If you can't understand that then there isn't much point in continuing this commentary.
I hope we dont sign him, i thought he was dreadfully lightweight when he should of been in his physical prime so lords knows how his body will ve after the injuries, also he showed his attitude when Bowyer criticised him and he resorted to posting indirects on social media like a teenage girl instead of speaking to him.
What Jonny was subjected to by Bowyer was bullying not criticising, several senior players had to intervene.
Thats a very weak interpretation of bullying. Bowyer publicly stated a fact which was Williams bottled out of a challenge. Also it doesnt change the fact that Williams choice to respond to Bowyer was to post indirects on social media which isnt really hwo a man should deal with things.
The "he bottled a challenge" comment is not the bullying I was referring to. Bowyer can be an aggressive individual, perhaps Jonny felt intimidated in continuing the confrontation in person.
Both Darren Pratley and Ben Watson felt LB's behaviour was over the line and both had to step in, would they do that if it was just a bit of criticism?
Sadly not every one can "deal with things like a man" whatever that even means.
How do you know pratley and watson stepped in ?
Im sorey it tells me everything i need to know about his character, he felt intimidated so went online and posted indirects like a teenager.
Like a man i mean with dignity and self-respect. Go and speak to the person directly you have an issue with.
Also you say his behaviour was over the line yet havent stated one example where his behaviour was over the line ?
I know what happened because I personally know one of the people involved very well.
You may be the kind of person who doesn't get intimidated when someone is shouting in your face, however a large amount of people will be.
If you can't understand that then there isn't much point in continuing this commentary.
Ok fair enough i cant judge for your personal circumstances.
Also cant judge whether about Bowyer shouting in his face as thats not public knowledge. If it did happen, which im not disputing i think the only way to deal with that is to shout back. Maybe i am being a bit harsh on JW and "his character", i dont know him.
I hope we dont sign him, i thought he was dreadfully lightweight when he should of been in his physical prime so lords knows how his body will ve after the injuries, also he showed his attitude when Bowyer criticised him and he resorted to posting indirects on social media like a teenage girl instead of speaking to him.
What Jonny was subjected to by Bowyer was bullying not criticising, several senior players had to intervene.
Thats a very weak interpretation of bullying. Bowyer publicly stated a fact which was Williams bottled out of a challenge. Also it doesnt change the fact that Williams choice to respond to Bowyer was to post indirects on social media which isnt really hwo a man should deal with things.
The "he bottled a challenge" comment is not the bullying I was referring to. Bowyer can be an aggressive individual, perhaps Jonny felt intimidated in continuing the confrontation in person.
Both Darren Pratley and Ben Watson felt LB's behaviour was over the line and both had to step in, would they do that if it was just a bit of criticism?
Sadly not every one can "deal with things like a man" whatever that even means.
How do you know pratley and watson stepped in ?
Im sorey it tells me everything i need to know about his character, he felt intimidated so went online and posted indirects like a teenager.
Like a man i mean with dignity and self-respect. Go and speak to the person directly you have an issue with.
Also you say his behaviour was over the line yet havent stated one example where his behaviour was over the line ?
I know what happened because I personally know one of the people involved very well.
You may be the kind of person who doesn't get intimidated when someone is shouting in your face, however a large amount of people will be.
If you can't understand that then there isn't much point in continuing this commentary.
Ok fair enough i cant judge for your personal circumstances.
Also cant judge whether about Bowyer shouting in his face as thats not public knowledge. If it did happen, which im not disputing i think the only way to deal with that is to shout back. Maybe i am being a bit harsh on JW and "his character", i dont know him.
Personally yes I probably would shout back, however I also recognise that some people wouldn't feel comfortable doing that is it often escalates a situation to become potentially violent.
Just because JW may not want a potentially violent confrontation to occur does not make him any "less of man" or lacking in dignity/self respect. If you do believe those things then that it is a damning indictment on your own character and not his.
I hope we dont sign him, i thought he was dreadfully lightweight when he should of been in his physical prime so lords knows how his body will ve after the injuries, also he showed his attitude when Bowyer criticised him and he resorted to posting indirects on social media like a teenage girl instead of speaking to him.
What Jonny was subjected to by Bowyer was bullying not criticising, several senior players had to intervene.
Thats a very weak interpretation of bullying. Bowyer publicly stated a fact which was Williams bottled out of a challenge. Also it doesnt change the fact that Williams choice to respond to Bowyer was to post indirects on social media which isnt really hwo a man should deal with things.
The "he bottled a challenge" comment is not the bullying I was referring to. Bowyer can be an aggressive individual, perhaps Jonny felt intimidated in continuing the confrontation in person.
Both Darren Pratley and Ben Watson felt LB's behaviour was over the line and both had to step in, would they do that if it was just a bit of criticism?
Sadly not every one can "deal with things like a man" whatever that even means.
How do you know pratley and watson stepped in ?
Im sorey it tells me everything i need to know about his character, he felt intimidated so went online and posted indirects like a teenager.
Like a man i mean with dignity and self-respect. Go and speak to the person directly you have an issue with.
Also you say his behaviour was over the line yet havent stated one example where his behaviour was over the line ?
I know what happened because I personally know one of the people involved very well.
You may be the kind of person who doesn't get intimidated when someone is shouting in your face, however a large amount of people will be.
If you can't understand that then there isn't much point in continuing this commentary.
Ok fair enough i cant judge for your personal circumstances.
Also cant judge whether about Bowyer shouting in his face as thats not public knowledge. If it did happen, which im not disputing i think the only way to deal with that is to shout back. Maybe i am being a bit harsh on JW and "his character", i dont know him.
'Why didn't Jonny Williams just scream in legendarily calm and reflective manager Lee Bowyer's face? What is he, a girl?' is a novel take, I'll give it that
I hope we dont sign him, i thought he was dreadfully lightweight when he should of been in his physical prime so lords knows how his body will ve after the injuries, also he showed his attitude when Bowyer criticised him and he resorted to posting indirects on social media like a teenage girl instead of speaking to him.
What Jonny was subjected to by Bowyer was bullying not criticising, several senior players had to intervene.
Thats a very weak interpretation of bullying. Bowyer publicly stated a fact which was Williams bottled out of a challenge. Also it doesnt change the fact that Williams choice to respond to Bowyer was to post indirects on social media which isnt really hwo a man should deal with things.
The "he bottled a challenge" comment is not the bullying I was referring to. Bowyer can be an aggressive individual, perhaps Jonny felt intimidated in continuing the confrontation in person.
Both Darren Pratley and Ben Watson felt LB's behaviour was over the line and both had to step in, would they do that if it was just a bit of criticism?
Sadly not every one can "deal with things like a man" whatever that even means.
How do you know pratley and watson stepped in ?
Im sorey it tells me everything i need to know about his character, he felt intimidated so went online and posted indirects like a teenager.
Like a man i mean with dignity and self-respect. Go and speak to the person directly you have an issue with.
Also you say his behaviour was over the line yet havent stated one example where his behaviour was over the line ?
I know what happened because I personally know one of the people involved very well.
You may be the kind of person who doesn't get intimidated when someone is shouting in your face, however a large amount of people will be.
If you can't understand that then there isn't much point in continuing this commentary.
Ok fair enough i cant judge for your personal circumstances.
Also cant judge whether about Bowyer shouting in his face as thats not public knowledge. If it did happen, which im not disputing i think the only way to deal with that is to shout back. Maybe i am being a bit harsh on JW and "his character", i dont know him.
'Why didn't Jonny Williams just scream in legendarily calm and reflective manager Lee Bowyer's face? What is he, a girl?' is a novel take, I'll give it that
So you are going to let someone scream in your face ?
I hope we dont sign him, i thought he was dreadfully lightweight when he should of been in his physical prime so lords knows how his body will ve after the injuries, also he showed his attitude when Bowyer criticised him and he resorted to posting indirects on social media like a teenage girl instead of speaking to him.
What Jonny was subjected to by Bowyer was bullying not criticising, several senior players had to intervene.
Thats a very weak interpretation of bullying. Bowyer publicly stated a fact which was Williams bottled out of a challenge. Also it doesnt change the fact that Williams choice to respond to Bowyer was to post indirects on social media which isnt really hwo a man should deal with things.
The "he bottled a challenge" comment is not the bullying I was referring to. Bowyer can be an aggressive individual, perhaps Jonny felt intimidated in continuing the confrontation in person.
Both Darren Pratley and Ben Watson felt LB's behaviour was over the line and both had to step in, would they do that if it was just a bit of criticism?
Sadly not every one can "deal with things like a man" whatever that even means.
How do you know pratley and watson stepped in ?
Im sorey it tells me everything i need to know about his character, he felt intimidated so went online and posted indirects like a teenager.
Like a man i mean with dignity and self-respect. Go and speak to the person directly you have an issue with.
Also you say his behaviour was over the line yet havent stated one example where his behaviour was over the line ?
I know what happened because I personally know one of the people involved very well.
You may be the kind of person who doesn't get intimidated when someone is shouting in your face, however a large amount of people will be.
If you can't understand that then there isn't much point in continuing this commentary.
Ok fair enough i cant judge for your personal circumstances.
Also cant judge whether about Bowyer shouting in his face as thats not public knowledge. If it did happen, which im not disputing i think the only way to deal with that is to shout back. Maybe i am being a bit harsh on JW and "his character", i dont know him.
'Why didn't Jonny Williams just scream in legendarily calm and reflective manager Lee Bowyer's face? What is he, a girl?' is a novel take, I'll give it that
So you are going to let someone scream in your face ?
I hope we dont sign him, i thought he was dreadfully lightweight when he should of been in his physical prime so lords knows how his body will ve after the injuries, also he showed his attitude when Bowyer criticised him and he resorted to posting indirects on social media like a teenage girl instead of speaking to him.
What Jonny was subjected to by Bowyer was bullying not criticising, several senior players had to intervene.
Thats a very weak interpretation of bullying. Bowyer publicly stated a fact which was Williams bottled out of a challenge. Also it doesnt change the fact that Williams choice to respond to Bowyer was to post indirects on social media which isnt really hwo a man should deal with things.
The "he bottled a challenge" comment is not the bullying I was referring to. Bowyer can be an aggressive individual, perhaps Jonny felt intimidated in continuing the confrontation in person.
Both Darren Pratley and Ben Watson felt LB's behaviour was over the line and both had to step in, would they do that if it was just a bit of criticism?
Sadly not every one can "deal with things like a man" whatever that even means.
How do you know pratley and watson stepped in ?
Im sorey it tells me everything i need to know about his character, he felt intimidated so went online and posted indirects like a teenager.
Like a man i mean with dignity and self-respect. Go and speak to the person directly you have an issue with.
Also you say his behaviour was over the line yet havent stated one example where his behaviour was over the line ?
I know what happened because I personally know one of the people involved very well.
You may be the kind of person who doesn't get intimidated when someone is shouting in your face, however a large amount of people will be.
If you can't understand that then there isn't much point in continuing this commentary.
Ok fair enough i cant judge for your personal circumstances.
Also cant judge whether about Bowyer shouting in his face as thats not public knowledge. If it did happen, which im not disputing i think the only way to deal with that is to shout back. Maybe i am being a bit harsh on JW and "his character", i dont know him.
Personally yes I probably would shout back, however I also recognise that some people wouldn't feel comfortable doing that is it often escalates a situation to become potentially violent.
Just because JW may not want a potentially violent confrontation to occur does not make him any "less of man" or lacking in dignity/self respect. If you do believe those things then that it is a damning indictment on your own character and not his.
Absolutley not an indictment of my own character that i believe people should hold them selves with more dignity and not cower from confrontation.
I hope we dont sign him, i thought he was dreadfully lightweight when he should of been in his physical prime so lords knows how his body will ve after the injuries, also he showed his attitude when Bowyer criticised him and he resorted to posting indirects on social media like a teenage girl instead of speaking to him.
What Jonny was subjected to by Bowyer was bullying not criticising, several senior players had to intervene.
Thats a very weak interpretation of bullying. Bowyer publicly stated a fact which was Williams bottled out of a challenge. Also it doesnt change the fact that Williams choice to respond to Bowyer was to post indirects on social media which isnt really hwo a man should deal with things.
The "he bottled a challenge" comment is not the bullying I was referring to. Bowyer can be an aggressive individual, perhaps Jonny felt intimidated in continuing the confrontation in person.
Both Darren Pratley and Ben Watson felt LB's behaviour was over the line and both had to step in, would they do that if it was just a bit of criticism?
Sadly not every one can "deal with things like a man" whatever that even means.
How do you know pratley and watson stepped in ?
Im sorey it tells me everything i need to know about his character, he felt intimidated so went online and posted indirects like a teenager.
Like a man i mean with dignity and self-respect. Go and speak to the person directly you have an issue with.
Also you say his behaviour was over the line yet havent stated one example where his behaviour was over the line ?
I know what happened because I personally know one of the people involved very well.
You may be the kind of person who doesn't get intimidated when someone is shouting in your face, however a large amount of people will be.
If you can't understand that then there isn't much point in continuing this commentary.
Ok fair enough i cant judge for your personal circumstances.
Also cant judge whether about Bowyer shouting in his face as thats not public knowledge. If it did happen, which im not disputing i think the only way to deal with that is to shout back. Maybe i am being a bit harsh on JW and "his character", i dont know him.
'Why didn't Jonny Williams just scream in legendarily calm and reflective manager Lee Bowyer's face? What is he, a girl?' is a novel take, I'll give it that
So you are going to let someone scream in your face ?
I'm not gonna start a ruck with some cnut who i don't trust not to clump me and I'm weak as piss but if i could outrun the cnut i'd let em know what they are . All about weighing the situation up
I hope we dont sign him, i thought he was dreadfully lightweight when he should of been in his physical prime so lords knows how his body will ve after the injuries, also he showed his attitude when Bowyer criticised him and he resorted to posting indirects on social media like a teenage girl instead of speaking to him.
What Jonny was subjected to by Bowyer was bullying not criticising, several senior players had to intervene.
Thats a very weak interpretation of bullying. Bowyer publicly stated a fact which was Williams bottled out of a challenge. Also it doesnt change the fact that Williams choice to respond to Bowyer was to post indirects on social media which isnt really hwo a man should deal with things.
The "he bottled a challenge" comment is not the bullying I was referring to. Bowyer can be an aggressive individual, perhaps Jonny felt intimidated in continuing the confrontation in person.
Both Darren Pratley and Ben Watson felt LB's behaviour was over the line and both had to step in, would they do that if it was just a bit of criticism?
Sadly not every one can "deal with things like a man" whatever that even means.
How do you know pratley and watson stepped in ?
Im sorey it tells me everything i need to know about his character, he felt intimidated so went online and posted indirects like a teenager.
Like a man i mean with dignity and self-respect. Go and speak to the person directly you have an issue with.
Also you say his behaviour was over the line yet havent stated one example where his behaviour was over the line ?
I know what happened because I personally know one of the people involved very well.
You may be the kind of person who doesn't get intimidated when someone is shouting in your face, however a large amount of people will be.
If you can't understand that then there isn't much point in continuing this commentary.
Ok fair enough i cant judge for your personal circumstances.
Also cant judge whether about Bowyer shouting in his face as thats not public knowledge. If it did happen, which im not disputing i think the only way to deal with that is to shout back. Maybe i am being a bit harsh on JW and "his character", i dont know him.
Personally yes I probably would shout back, however I also recognise that some people wouldn't feel comfortable doing that is it often escalates a situation to become potentially violent.
Just because JW may not want a potentially violent confrontation to occur does not make him any "less of man" or lacking in dignity/self respect. If you do believe those things then that it is a damning indictment on your own character and not his.
Absolutley not an indictment of my own character that i believe people should hold them selves with more dignity and not cower from confrontation.
What if JW was a woman, would it be okay for him "cower from confrontation"?
What if LB was a professional boxer would it be okay for JW to "cower from confrontation"?
I hope we dont sign him, i thought he was dreadfully lightweight when he should of been in his physical prime so lords knows how his body will ve after the injuries, also he showed his attitude when Bowyer criticised him and he resorted to posting indirects on social media like a teenage girl instead of speaking to him.
What Jonny was subjected to by Bowyer was bullying not criticising, several senior players had to intervene.
Thats a very weak interpretation of bullying. Bowyer publicly stated a fact which was Williams bottled out of a challenge. Also it doesnt change the fact that Williams choice to respond to Bowyer was to post indirects on social media which isnt really hwo a man should deal with things.
The "he bottled a challenge" comment is not the bullying I was referring to. Bowyer can be an aggressive individual, perhaps Jonny felt intimidated in continuing the confrontation in person.
Both Darren Pratley and Ben Watson felt LB's behaviour was over the line and both had to step in, would they do that if it was just a bit of criticism?
Sadly not every one can "deal with things like a man" whatever that even means.
How do you know pratley and watson stepped in ?
Im sorey it tells me everything i need to know about his character, he felt intimidated so went online and posted indirects like a teenager.
Like a man i mean with dignity and self-respect. Go and speak to the person directly you have an issue with.
Also you say his behaviour was over the line yet havent stated one example where his behaviour was over the line ?
I know what happened because I personally know one of the people involved very well.
You may be the kind of person who doesn't get intimidated when someone is shouting in your face, however a large amount of people will be.
If you can't understand that then there isn't much point in continuing this commentary.
Ok fair enough i cant judge for your personal circumstances.
Also cant judge whether about Bowyer shouting in his face as thats not public knowledge. If it did happen, which im not disputing i think the only way to deal with that is to shout back. Maybe i am being a bit harsh on JW and "his character", i dont know him.
Personally yes I probably would shout back, however I also recognise that some people wouldn't feel comfortable doing that is it often escalates a situation to become potentially violent.
Just because JW may not want a potentially violent confrontation to occur does not make him any "less of man" or lacking in dignity/self respect. If you do believe those things then that it is a damning indictment on your own character and not his.
Absolutley not an indictment of my own character that i believe people should hold them selves with more dignity and not cower from confrontation.
What if JW was a woman, would it be okay for him "cower from confrontation"?
What if LB was a professional boxer would it be okay for JW to "cower from confrontation"?
Firstly i dont believe men should act aggressivly to women.
What if ? What if ? What if we deal with facts ?
Also yes if he was a professional boxer its still not a reason to cower from confrontation, confrontation doesnt equal violence.
I hope we dont sign him, i thought he was dreadfully lightweight when he should of been in his physical prime so lords knows how his body will ve after the injuries, also he showed his attitude when Bowyer criticised him and he resorted to posting indirects on social media like a teenage girl instead of speaking to him.
What Jonny was subjected to by Bowyer was bullying not criticising, several senior players had to intervene.
Thats a very weak interpretation of bullying. Bowyer publicly stated a fact which was Williams bottled out of a challenge. Also it doesnt change the fact that Williams choice to respond to Bowyer was to post indirects on social media which isnt really hwo a man should deal with things.
The "he bottled a challenge" comment is not the bullying I was referring to. Bowyer can be an aggressive individual, perhaps Jonny felt intimidated in continuing the confrontation in person.
Both Darren Pratley and Ben Watson felt LB's behaviour was over the line and both had to step in, would they do that if it was just a bit of criticism?
Sadly not every one can "deal with things like a man" whatever that even means.
How do you know pratley and watson stepped in ?
Im sorey it tells me everything i need to know about his character, he felt intimidated so went online and posted indirects like a teenager.
Like a man i mean with dignity and self-respect. Go and speak to the person directly you have an issue with.
Also you say his behaviour was over the line yet havent stated one example where his behaviour was over the line ?
I know what happened because I personally know one of the people involved very well.
You may be the kind of person who doesn't get intimidated when someone is shouting in your face, however a large amount of people will be.
If you can't understand that then there isn't much point in continuing this commentary.
Ok fair enough i cant judge for your personal circumstances.
Also cant judge whether about Bowyer shouting in his face as thats not public knowledge. If it did happen, which im not disputing i think the only way to deal with that is to shout back. Maybe i am being a bit harsh on JW and "his character", i dont know him.
'Why didn't Jonny Williams just scream in legendarily calm and reflective manager Lee Bowyer's face? What is he, a girl?' is a novel take, I'll give it that
So you are going to let someone scream in your face ?
Fucking hell, talking to a brick wall.
Look you clearly are a friend or family member of JW which is fine but means you are obviously biased.
JW dealt with the situation how he did, as a fan i can only judge on what was seen publicly. I didnt see Bowyer scream in his face. If he did then id say its unacceptable, i would still say it isnt dealt with by indirects.
I hope we dont sign him, i thought he was dreadfully lightweight when he should of been in his physical prime so lords knows how his body will ve after the injuries, also he showed his attitude when Bowyer criticised him and he resorted to posting indirects on social media like a teenage girl instead of speaking to him.
What Jonny was subjected to by Bowyer was bullying not criticising, several senior players had to intervene.
Thats a very weak interpretation of bullying. Bowyer publicly stated a fact which was Williams bottled out of a challenge. Also it doesnt change the fact that Williams choice to respond to Bowyer was to post indirects on social media which isnt really hwo a man should deal with things.
The "he bottled a challenge" comment is not the bullying I was referring to. Bowyer can be an aggressive individual, perhaps Jonny felt intimidated in continuing the confrontation in person.
Both Darren Pratley and Ben Watson felt LB's behaviour was over the line and both had to step in, would they do that if it was just a bit of criticism?
Sadly not every one can "deal with things like a man" whatever that even means.
How do you know pratley and watson stepped in ?
Im sorey it tells me everything i need to know about his character, he felt intimidated so went online and posted indirects like a teenager.
Like a man i mean with dignity and self-respect. Go and speak to the person directly you have an issue with.
Also you say his behaviour was over the line yet havent stated one example where his behaviour was over the line ?
I know what happened because I personally know one of the people involved very well.
You may be the kind of person who doesn't get intimidated when someone is shouting in your face, however a large amount of people will be.
If you can't understand that then there isn't much point in continuing this commentary.
Ok fair enough i cant judge for your personal circumstances.
Also cant judge whether about Bowyer shouting in his face as thats not public knowledge. If it did happen, which im not disputing i think the only way to deal with that is to shout back. Maybe i am being a bit harsh on JW and "his character", i dont know him.
Personally yes I probably would shout back, however I also recognise that some people wouldn't feel comfortable doing that is it often escalates a situation to become potentially violent.
Just because JW may not want a potentially violent confrontation to occur does not make him any "less of man" or lacking in dignity/self respect. If you do believe those things then that it is a damning indictment on your own character and not his.
Absolutley not an indictment of my own character that i believe people should hold them selves with more dignity and not cower from confrontation.
What if JW was a woman, would it be okay for him "cower from confrontation"?
What if LB was a professional boxer would it be okay for JW to "cower from confrontation"?
Firstly i dont believe men should act aggressivly to women.
What if ? What if ? What if we deal with facts ?
Also yes if he was a professional boxer its still not a reason to cower from confrontation, confrontation doesnt equal violence.
Okay, here's a fact: Lee Bowyer has been charged with GBH and affray in a court of law.
Here's another fact: Lee Bowyer got a red card for getting into a punch up with someone on his own team.
Based on those facts, your plan for confrontation is to shout in his face? Good luck, God speed.
I hope we dont sign him, i thought he was dreadfully lightweight when he should of been in his physical prime so lords knows how his body will ve after the injuries, also he showed his attitude when Bowyer criticised him and he resorted to posting indirects on social media like a teenage girl instead of speaking to him.
What Jonny was subjected to by Bowyer was bullying not criticising, several senior players had to intervene.
Thats a very weak interpretation of bullying. Bowyer publicly stated a fact which was Williams bottled out of a challenge. Also it doesnt change the fact that Williams choice to respond to Bowyer was to post indirects on social media which isnt really hwo a man should deal with things.
The "he bottled a challenge" comment is not the bullying I was referring to. Bowyer can be an aggressive individual, perhaps Jonny felt intimidated in continuing the confrontation in person.
Both Darren Pratley and Ben Watson felt LB's behaviour was over the line and both had to step in, would they do that if it was just a bit of criticism?
Sadly not every one can "deal with things like a man" whatever that even means.
How do you know pratley and watson stepped in ?
Im sorey it tells me everything i need to know about his character, he felt intimidated so went online and posted indirects like a teenager.
Like a man i mean with dignity and self-respect. Go and speak to the person directly you have an issue with.
Also you say his behaviour was over the line yet havent stated one example where his behaviour was over the line ?
I know what happened because I personally know one of the people involved very well.
You may be the kind of person who doesn't get intimidated when someone is shouting in your face, however a large amount of people will be.
If you can't understand that then there isn't much point in continuing this commentary.
Ok fair enough i cant judge for your personal circumstances.
Also cant judge whether about Bowyer shouting in his face as thats not public knowledge. If it did happen, which im not disputing i think the only way to deal with that is to shout back. Maybe i am being a bit harsh on JW and "his character", i dont know him.
Personally yes I probably would shout back, however I also recognise that some people wouldn't feel comfortable doing that is it often escalates a situation to become potentially violent.
Just because JW may not want a potentially violent confrontation to occur does not make him any "less of man" or lacking in dignity/self respect. If you do believe those things then that it is a damning indictment on your own character and not his.
Absolutley not an indictment of my own character that i believe people should hold them selves with more dignity and not cower from confrontation.
What if JW was a woman, would it be okay for him "cower from confrontation"?
What if LB was a professional boxer would it be okay for JW to "cower from confrontation"?
Firstly i dont believe men should act aggressivly to women.
What if ? What if ? What if we deal with facts ?
Also yes if he was a professional boxer its still not a reason to cower from confrontation, confrontation doesnt equal violence.
Okay, here's a fact: Lee Bowyer has been charged with GBH and affray in a court of law.
Here's another fact: Lee Bowyer got a red card for getting into a punch up with someone on his own team.
Based on those facts, your plan for confrontation is to shout in his face? Good luck, God speed.
Ok so your plan for life it let people talk to you however they feel like on the off chance they might be violent ? And your only recourse will be to post indirects on social media
I hope we dont sign him, i thought he was dreadfully lightweight when he should of been in his physical prime so lords knows how his body will ve after the injuries, also he showed his attitude when Bowyer criticised him and he resorted to posting indirects on social media like a teenage girl instead of speaking to him.
What Jonny was subjected to by Bowyer was bullying not criticising, several senior players had to intervene.
Thats a very weak interpretation of bullying. Bowyer publicly stated a fact which was Williams bottled out of a challenge. Also it doesnt change the fact that Williams choice to respond to Bowyer was to post indirects on social media which isnt really hwo a man should deal with things.
The "he bottled a challenge" comment is not the bullying I was referring to. Bowyer can be an aggressive individual, perhaps Jonny felt intimidated in continuing the confrontation in person.
Both Darren Pratley and Ben Watson felt LB's behaviour was over the line and both had to step in, would they do that if it was just a bit of criticism?
Sadly not every one can "deal with things like a man" whatever that even means.
How do you know pratley and watson stepped in ?
Im sorey it tells me everything i need to know about his character, he felt intimidated so went online and posted indirects like a teenager.
Like a man i mean with dignity and self-respect. Go and speak to the person directly you have an issue with.
Also you say his behaviour was over the line yet havent stated one example where his behaviour was over the line ?
I know what happened because I personally know one of the people involved very well.
You may be the kind of person who doesn't get intimidated when someone is shouting in your face, however a large amount of people will be.
If you can't understand that then there isn't much point in continuing this commentary.
Ok fair enough i cant judge for your personal circumstances.
Also cant judge whether about Bowyer shouting in his face as thats not public knowledge. If it did happen, which im not disputing i think the only way to deal with that is to shout back. Maybe i am being a bit harsh on JW and "his character", i dont know him.
Personally yes I probably would shout back, however I also recognise that some people wouldn't feel comfortable doing that is it often escalates a situation to become potentially violent.
Just because JW may not want a potentially violent confrontation to occur does not make him any "less of man" or lacking in dignity/self respect. If you do believe those things then that it is a damning indictment on your own character and not his.
Absolutley not an indictment of my own character that i believe people should hold them selves with more dignity and not cower from confrontation.
What if JW was a woman, would it be okay for him "cower from confrontation"?
What if LB was a professional boxer would it be okay for JW to "cower from confrontation"?
Firstly i dont believe men should act aggressivly to women.
What if ? What if ? What if we deal with facts ?
Also yes if he was a professional boxer its still not a reason to cower from confrontation, confrontation doesnt equal violence.
Okay, here's a fact: Lee Bowyer has been charged with GBH and affray in a court of law.
Here's another fact: Lee Bowyer got a red card for getting into a punch up with someone on his own team.
Based on those facts, your plan for confrontation is to shout in his face? Good luck, God speed.
Ok so your plan for life it let people talk to you however they feel like on the off chance they might be violent ? And your only recourse will be to post indirects on social media
I understand why you think confrontation can be necessary, standing up for yourself is one way of stopping bullying or disrespect and it's what most of us are taught as kids so we don't get pushed around at school. But not everyone responds to conflict in the same way. Different personalities handle different situations differently. Some people are non-confrontational by nature, and to them, the idea of confronting someone head-on is practically as unthinkable as you supporting Millwall tomorrow.
Some people are sensitive and prefer to have mediated solutions, or negotiate through other people, or wait until things have completely calmed down and everyone has moved on to later approach the issue. Some people were beaten or abused by a dominant adult in their childhood who gave them no confidence in their ability to handle confrontation, or maybe even had an overbearing parent who never let them handle anything on their own.
Plus, confrontation can escalate the situation. Especially if you're dealing with someone you know to be hotheaded. Like I say, it can be a good way of solving problems, and it can often not be a good way. So it's easy to see why some people prefer others.
I hope we dont sign him, i thought he was dreadfully lightweight when he should of been in his physical prime so lords knows how his body will ve after the injuries, also he showed his attitude when Bowyer criticised him and he resorted to posting indirects on social media like a teenage girl instead of speaking to him.
What Jonny was subjected to by Bowyer was bullying not criticising, several senior players had to intervene.
Thats a very weak interpretation of bullying. Bowyer publicly stated a fact which was Williams bottled out of a challenge. Also it doesnt change the fact that Williams choice to respond to Bowyer was to post indirects on social media which isnt really hwo a man should deal with things.
The "he bottled a challenge" comment is not the bullying I was referring to. Bowyer can be an aggressive individual, perhaps Jonny felt intimidated in continuing the confrontation in person.
Both Darren Pratley and Ben Watson felt LB's behaviour was over the line and both had to step in, would they do that if it was just a bit of criticism?
Sadly not every one can "deal with things like a man" whatever that even means.
How do you know pratley and watson stepped in ?
Im sorey it tells me everything i need to know about his character, he felt intimidated so went online and posted indirects like a teenager.
Like a man i mean with dignity and self-respect. Go and speak to the person directly you have an issue with.
Also you say his behaviour was over the line yet havent stated one example where his behaviour was over the line ?
I know what happened because I personally know one of the people involved very well.
You may be the kind of person who doesn't get intimidated when someone is shouting in your face, however a large amount of people will be.
If you can't understand that then there isn't much point in continuing this commentary.
Ok fair enough i cant judge for your personal circumstances.
Also cant judge whether about Bowyer shouting in his face as thats not public knowledge. If it did happen, which im not disputing i think the only way to deal with that is to shout back. Maybe i am being a bit harsh on JW and "his character", i dont know him.
Personally yes I probably would shout back, however I also recognise that some people wouldn't feel comfortable doing that is it often escalates a situation to become potentially violent.
Just because JW may not want a potentially violent confrontation to occur does not make him any "less of man" or lacking in dignity/self respect. If you do believe those things then that it is a damning indictment on your own character and not his.
Absolutley not an indictment of my own character that i believe people should hold them selves with more dignity and not cower from confrontation.
What if JW was a woman, would it be okay for him "cower from confrontation"?
What if LB was a professional boxer would it be okay for JW to "cower from confrontation"?
Firstly i dont believe men should act aggressivly to women.
What if ? What if ? What if we deal with facts ?
Also yes if he was a professional boxer its still not a reason to cower from confrontation, confrontation doesnt equal violence.
Okay, here's a fact: Lee Bowyer has been charged with GBH and affray in a court of law.
Here's another fact: Lee Bowyer got a red card for getting into a punch up with someone on his own team.
Based on those facts, your plan for confrontation is to shout in his face? Good luck, God speed.
Ok so your plan for life it let people talk to you however they feel like on the off chance they might be violent ? And your only recourse will be to post indirects on social media
No, my plan is to not deliberately provoke a person who has specifically shown that he can be violent on multiple occasions.
It's perfectly possible to be assertive without resorting to shouting at/back at someone. Just walking away is actually a very good option but not always available in the context of a training session or whatever it may be.
And yes, if someone is being a dickhead then certainly call them out for it.
The Williams tackle-jumping was after he overran the ball (after making a good interception) and if he'd gone for it he'd have definitely fouled the man. He'd just contributed to us scoring a goal and although that attack led to a chance, there was no harm done. Bowyer's actions were those of someone well on the way to completely losing the plot
Comments
If only the same could be said about Chuks...
Both Darren Pratley and Ben Watson felt LB's behaviour was over the line and both had to step in, would they do that if it was just a bit of criticism?
Sadly not every one can "deal with things like a man" whatever that even means.
Im sorey it tells me everything i need to know about his character, he felt intimidated so went online and posted indirects like a teenager.
Like a man i mean with dignity and self-respect. Go and speak to the person directly you have an issue with.
Also you say his behaviour was over the line yet havent stated one example where his behaviour was over the line ?
You may be the kind of person who doesn't get intimidated when someone is aggressively shouting in your face, however a large amount of people will be.
If you can't understand that then there isn't much point in continuing this commentary.
Also cant judge whether about Bowyer shouting in his face as thats not public knowledge. If it did happen, which im not disputing i think the only way to deal with that is to shout back. Maybe i am being a bit harsh on JW and "his character", i dont know him.
Just because JW may not want a potentially violent confrontation to occur does not make him any "less of man" or lacking in dignity/self respect. If you do believe those things then that it is a damning indictment on your own character and not his.
All about weighing the situation up
What if LB was a professional boxer would it be okay for JW to "cower from confrontation"?
What if ? What if ? What if we deal with facts ?
Also yes if he was a professional boxer its still not a reason to cower from confrontation, confrontation doesnt equal violence.
JW dealt with the situation how he did, as a fan i can only judge on what was seen publicly. I didnt see Bowyer scream in his face. If he did then id say its unacceptable, i would still say it isnt dealt with by indirects.
Here's another fact: Lee Bowyer got a red card for getting into a punch up with someone on his own team.
Based on those facts, your plan for confrontation is to shout in his face? Good luck, God speed.
Some people are sensitive and prefer to have mediated solutions, or negotiate through other people, or wait until things have completely calmed down and everyone has moved on to later approach the issue. Some people were beaten or abused by a dominant adult in their childhood who gave them no confidence in their ability to handle confrontation, or maybe even had an overbearing parent who never let them handle anything on their own.
Plus, confrontation can escalate the situation. Especially if you're dealing with someone you know to be hotheaded. Like I say, it can be a good way of solving problems, and it can often not be a good way. So it's easy to see why some people prefer others.
It's perfectly possible to be assertive without resorting to shouting at/back at someone. Just walking away is actually a very good option but not always available in the context of a training session or whatever it may be.
And yes, if someone is being a dickhead then certainly call them out for it.