Bowyer didn't go about his contract extension the right way. Obviously he should have raised his concerns directly with his employers in the first instance. I do wonder if he inadvertently reacted to a potential incoming player saying he wouldn't commit with Bowyer on a short contract and said too much too soon to Rich Cawley?
Either way, he does have a point about wanting to understand the term of the contract and possible compensation in the event it's terminated. Grapevine's points about being paid big wages because there are big risks, no compensation being one of them may work in the corporate world but we hear al the time about managers being sacked and paid off eg Conte understood to have been paid £21m to leave Chelsea. Managers like Big Sam have earned more in play-offs than wages. "Compensation" might not be the right term but the contracts are basically paid up.
Thank you Grapevine, for providing perspective on the situation.
On a lighter note: anyone notice how few posts there were in the 20 minutes after Grapevine's post? Most of us were reading it all the way through, hanging on to every word.
Those who did post during this time ...... you gave yourself away, you haven't read Grapevine's post, have you?
I had to cancel going out in order to read Grapevine's post :-)
We have a good idea that Bowyer wasn't happy with the contract situation from his first proper chat with Southall. I have to be honest that the 'weird' comment was disconcerting and my instinct was to try to forget it and continue to rejoice at the takeover. It is weird that Bowyer would use that word though and at that time. Airman has told us that it did relate to his contract and his information on these matters is pretty reliable.
Then putting the pieces together, Bowyer and Southall clearly agreed to put the negotiations aside until after the window. Logically, this suggests they were far from straightforward but Southall may have seen this as a solution in that the line could be given that Bowyer is going to sign a contract but they both want to use their time on priorities like signings. But Bowyer clearly didn't see it this way nor have a desire to co-operate. The agreement may have been a bit more one sided than he wanted. And a message leaked to the press forced Southall to try to address. Again this is backed up by Airman suggesting Bowyer was angry at Southalls initial interview.
In the meantime, of course Bowyer is going to say reassuring things like it is close, just needs a bit of tweaking etc...It isn't logical to throw his rattle out of the pram. But he knows the new owners want to start with a good impression and seems to be using that against them to get the sort of deal he wants. What we don't know is whether what he is being offered is decent or not. But what I do know is that if Bowyer signs a new deal the path ahead will look significantly smoother. And I will certainly worry less.
Write a very long post on this and the deleted it.
Would be good to have Bowyer signed up before the weekend. We don’t want to announce an uplift in all players wages but maybe we could do something now for all we eat to stay. Be sensible to push the 2018/2019 wage structure a bit but not go back to the 2015.2016 structure immediately.
We have a good idea that Bowyer wasn't happy with the contract situation from his first proper chat with Southall. I have to be honest that the 'weird' comment was disconcerting and my instinct was to try to forget it and continue to rejoice at the takeover. It is weird that Bowyer would use that word though and at that time.
Sorry if I missed this , is the use of the word “weird” additional to when Bowyer said “strange” before one of the Sky live games , which he tried to backtrack on when questioned about it later on that night .
Thank you, Grapevine. I always read your posts with great interest as your expertise shines through (I am pretty much clueless regarding this corporate stuff). However, even I know that it is in no-ones interest to be talking to the press and speculating about your prospective contract when you could be talking to the person who is offering it to you and be in full possession of the actual facts of the situation. If anything is strange, then that decision certainly was.
Anyway; this is no time for hysteria. There is much to do and little time to do it. We can reflect on our position when the transfer window closes. Until then, we need to hold our nerve. Steady the Buffs!
Thank you, Grapevine. I always read your posts with great interest as your expertise shines through (I am pretty much clueless regarding this corporate stuff). However, even I know that it is in no-ones interest to be talking to the press and speculating about your prospective contract when you could be talking to the person who is offering it to you and be in full possession of the actual facts of the situation. If anything is strange, then that decision certainly was.
Anyway; this is no time for hysteria. There is much to do and little time to do it. We can reflect on our position when the transfer window closes. Until then, we need to hold our nerve. Steady the Buffs!
Nah , it’s time to go to Dubai and speak to the money man !
Bizarrely the previous owner didn't get on with Rob Segal, so he made a personal call to Lee Bowyer in which a one year compromise deal was done. I would like to see some dynamism from the chairman to get the main deal done (Bowyer's contract) but accepting Segal was in the USA with other clients, this needs to be announced by the latest Thursday which will be a week since the press conference.
Jose Mourinho was named as Tottenham boss just days after Pochettino was sacked, a draft contract was agreed with Jose and then the sacking took place. Southall seemed to be at every game in December and I'm surprised the template of a contract wasn't mentioned over the phoned or by email if Segal was out the country. If Bowyer's contract was the most important, and the first thing Matt wanted to achieve when becoming the owner on the 2nd January, then 14th January does seem lackadaisical on someone's part ?
Of course it was discussed before the takeover was approved.
The whole thing stinks. If you had been "involved" in football for 20 years, been trying to buy a club for a few, and then finally landed one, would you not already know who you wanted as manager and list of potential players lined up?
I know I would.
So far Mr Southall has said he wants to sign Bowyer and Taylor. He wants to buy Cullen and Leko (obviously the injury made that impossible). He is going to invest £15 million on a training ground they don't yet own.
What has he done?
Signed a player on loan, all be it much needed, who couldn't get a game at Preston and made sure it was noted we wanted him in the summer but the finances weren't avalible. I am sure Villa just want him to play now.
And used his "mate" to leek we have a had a bid accepted for a player.
We haven't even had the leeked story that Taylor was offered the highest wage ever offered by us out side of the prem. Even if it's not true its impossible to prove.
He hasn't had 2 weeks to sort this out, he has had months.
Ridiculous and too much to even bother with. If it was February I might agree with some of it, but it's not.
Mr Southall has had months, yes months, to talk to Bowyer's agent. "Get in the right ball park" "be on the same page" he said it was his no1 priority in November.
Bowyer knew nothing about the "5 year deal" before the press conference. You could tell by the look on his face.
I have said before I hope I am wrong, I really do, but I have a bad feeling about this and I honestly think Mr Southall comes across as too good to be true.
I have also offered to eat lots of humble pie, and take pelters, if I am.
What is your favorite pie filling? I have the oven on....
It is perfectly legitimate indeed necessary to ask during due diligence whether Senior Management will be staying in situ. They represent an important aspect of the business and the value you will pay for the company but you cannot go beyond that.
Negotiations of any sort are definitely a no, no. I worked on a joint venture for 12 months which my company pulled out of. The prospective partner found a new bank to work with and approached me but I nearly had to spend 3 months on gardening leave. In the end my employers decided as I was going to the States I was no immediate threat to their operations. Indeed in my new role I could bring more business to them which I did.
I respect this is all a matter of experience which some simply will not have had.
I confess I am annoyed because expectations are being created.
In itself it is no bad thing and comes with the territory of opening up a dialogue with your stakeholders but you have to control it. People will always read into what you say what they want to read. So clarity is essential and you really do have to be ahead of the game at every turn otherwise you end up endlessly reacting and the business controls you - not the other way round.
Social media exaggerates the issue a 1000 times. Some can argue it is only an "internet" thing but the internet feeds into main stream media. It can and will influence your market in ways you will never know.
For what it is worth I am comfortable with where ESI appear to be heading but it does need to be a tighter ship.
No boating puns please.
There is a major switch from being in the project mode of buying the club, and the continuing project of buying the training ground and being in operational mode. Different demands, different skills and crucially a different audience.
Southall appears to need a few "Monday morning prayers" with his Board and Seniors Manager to get everybody on the same page.
Then every "key player" should be aware of all the issues and they can be addressed.
For example, respecting Gallen may have been completely shafted with the Gallagher situation, it is a situation which should never come as a surprise. He has done a great job but I am sorry he is accountable and we are now having to rush around to fill another gap which has significant budgetary and recruitment implications for the entire business.
As the CEO I am saying Steve "How did you not know?
Once you structure such a management group everybody should be on the same page and can be proactive in managing issues away rather than having to reactively respond.
And Steve might say - They looked at your lack of activity to date, even failing to tie the manager up and were concerned their player might be involved in a damaging relegation scrap.
It is perfectly legitimate indeed necessary to ask during due diligence whether Senior Management will be staying in situ. They represent an important aspect of the business and the value you will pay for the company but you cannot go beyond that.
Negotiations of any sort are definitely a no, no. I worked on a joint venture for 12 months which my company pulled out of. The prospective partner found a new bank to work with and approached me but I nearly had to spend 3 months on gardening leave. In the end my employers decided as I was going to the States I was no immediate threat to their operations. Indeed in my new role I could bring more business to them which I did.
I respect this is all a matter of experience which some simply will not have had.
I confess I am annoyed because expectations are being created.
In itself it is no bad thing and comes with the territory of opening up a dialogue with your stakeholders but you have to control it. People will always read into what you say what they want to read. So clarity is essential and you really do have to be ahead of the game at every turn otherwise you end up endlessly reacting and the business controls you - not the other way round.
Social media exaggerates the issue a 1000 times. Some can argue it is only an "internet" thing but the internet feeds into main stream media. It can and will influence your market in ways you will never know.
For what it is worth I am comfortable with where ESI appear to be heading but it does need to be a tighter ship.
No boating puns please.
There is a major switch from being in the project mode of buying the club, and the continuing project of buying the training ground and being in operational mode. Different demands, different skills and crucially a different audience.
Southall appears to need a few "Monday morning prayers" with his Board and Seniors Manager to get everybody on the same page.
Then every "key player" should be aware of all the issues and they can be addressed.
For example, respecting Gallen may have been completely shafted with the Gallagher situation, it is a situation which should never come as a surprise. He has done a great job but I am sorry he is accountable and we are now having to rush around to fill another gap which has significant budgetary and recruitment implications for the entire business.
As the CEO I am saying Steve "How did you not know?
Once you structure such a management group everybody should be on the same page and can be proactive in managing issues away rather than having to reactively respond.
Bit of a shorter post -I’ll read this one on the flight to Amsterdam.
Thank you Grapevine, for providing perspective on the situation.
On a lighter note: anyone notice how few posts there were in the 20 minutes after Grapevine's post? Most of us were reading it all the way through, hanging on to every word.
Those who did post during this time ...... you gave yourself away, you haven't read Grapevine's post, have you?
I had to cancel going out in order to read Grapevine's post :-)
I hope you had satisfactory compensation sorted...
My concern, relating to the apparent delay in agreeing a new contract for Lee Bowyer and potential barriers to signing new players (like Maddison) is simply that of budget. Have ESI got the financial backing to set contract offers at a level that are competitive in this league. Not generous, not foolhardy, just competitive.
When I see evidence of that, I'll stop worrying.
If we continue to have problems signing the standard of players that we need, are losing out not only to direct competitors but also to League One teams, are forced to sign sub-standard players for the challenges ahead - the worry will be justified.
i agree with you @Davo55 but wouldn't it be better to not worry until that can be assessed, rather than the other way round?
If we are talking budget then we are in such a ridiculously difficult position with the impact of disparity between competitors incomes in this league. Use Swansea as an example, feels like they dropped out the Prem ages ago now. They still got a £35m parachute payment this season and will get an £16m next season. They can operate at wage bills that dwarf ours, and there are many teams that fall into the same category.
If we are interested at Championship in a player, its a the first right of their agent to then use that as a marker to see what else our interest can generate from others, with the objective of getting his client (and by default himself) a better deal.
We will get there. There's clearly money there and that isn't the case with all clubs. Its just going to take a bit of time and if we are going for highly fancied players we need to accept that in some instances, we might not get it over the line.
If given what's been said there's been no real positive news about Bowyer's contract by the end of next week, then start to worry a bit imo.
I think it's only natural for fans to worry during a transfer window, especially if their team needs extra bodies to challenge for promotion or, as in our case, to fight against the prospect of relegation. I suspect pretty much everyone on here has some worries about the contract and transfer situation, whether they express that or not. I'm ok to express my concerns on a discussion group, but I'm stopping well short of slagging off the new owners because it's just far too early to judge.
Just one point in your comments that I don't agree with, @AFKABartram, is that in bold. I don't think it's at all clear that there is money there. That will be proven when things (hopefully) start happening.
Just calling it as I see it. I think it is vitally important we give ourselves as much chance as possible on Saturday. Others may not be so bothered but it is a valid position seeing as we have had over two weeks to deal with what we should all agree is a crisis.
Buying new players isn't like going to the supermarket, sticking them in the trolley, and checking-out!
It starts with expressing interest/seeking permission to speak - and from that point onwards the vast majority of decisions are outwith the buying club's control.
Yes I am concerned, but not because I believe we are not trying.
So many football fans are fantasists.
They must think we speak to a player/manager and they should just sign almost immediately on the dotted line.
We're Charlton you're not allowed to have time to think whether the deal is acceptable. We're Charlton just sign right here and now and no you can't discuss it with you partner. We're Charlton sign now, we don't care if you have issues with your kids and schools. We're Charlton, we don't get if you'll have to move house or live in a hotel for 6 months, sign here & now. We're Charlton .....
But none of that is the case with Bowyer.
Southall said he spoke him about not leaving for another club. The smart money is either Cardiff or Huddersfield. That would have been mid November. 3 months ago.
The take over was announced at the end of November.
It received EFL approval in the first week of January.
If you number 1 priority was to get the incumbent manager to sign a new contract, why has it taken over 90 days to actually offer a contract? That appears to be not actually be acceptable to Bowyer?
I used the word "stinks" last night, which was probably to strong, but something doesn't add up to me.
What is wrong is that Bowyer hasn't agreed the contract. It's a negotiation. Who knows the terms, but I'd suggest it's not straight forward.
Negotiation is fine, the fact that we've been negotiating since October isn't. Obviously it's not straight forward which is why he hasn't signed. No player is going to sign if they don't know if LB is staying.
Just calling it as I see it. I think it is vitally important we give ourselves as much chance as possible on Saturday. Others may not be so bothered but it is a valid position seeing as we have had over two weeks to deal with what we should all agree is a crisis.
Buying new players isn't like going to the supermarket, sticking them in the trolley, and checking-out!
It starts with expressing interest/seeking permission to speak - and from that point onwards the vast majority of decisions are outwith the buying club's control.
Yes I am concerned, but not because I believe we are not trying.
So many football fans are fantasists.
They must think we speak to a player/manager and they should just sign almost immediately on the dotted line.
We're Charlton you're not allowed to have time to think whether the deal is acceptable. We're Charlton just sign right here and now and no you can't discuss it with you partner. We're Charlton sign now, we don't care if you have issues with your kids and schools. We're Charlton, we don't get if you'll have to move house or live in a hotel for 6 months, sign here & now. We're Charlton .....
But none of that is the case with Bowyer.
Southall said he spoke him about not leaving for another club. The smart money is either Cardiff or Huddersfield. That would have been mid November. 3 months ago.
The take over was announced at the end of November.
It received EFL approval in the first week of January.
If you number 1 priority was to get the incumbent manager to sign a new contract, why has it taken over 90 days to actually offer a contract? That appears to be not actually be acceptable to Bowyer?
I used the word "stinks" last night, which was probably to strong, but something doesn't add up to me.
What is wrong is that Bowyer hasn't agreed the contract. It's a negotiation. Who knows the terms, but I'd suggest it's not straight forward.
Negotiation is fine, the fact that we've been negotiating since October isn't. Obviously it's not straight forward which is why he hasn't signed. No player is going to sign if they don't know if LB is staying.
Now this is why you're getting in such a state. They haven't been negotiating since October.
Just calling it as I see it. I think it is vitally important we give ourselves as much chance as possible on Saturday. Others may not be so bothered but it is a valid position seeing as we have had over two weeks to deal with what we should all agree is a crisis.
Buying new players isn't like going to the supermarket, sticking them in the trolley, and checking-out!
It starts with expressing interest/seeking permission to speak - and from that point onwards the vast majority of decisions are outwith the buying club's control.
Yes I am concerned, but not because I believe we are not trying.
So many football fans are fantasists.
They must think we speak to a player/manager and they should just sign almost immediately on the dotted line.
We're Charlton you're not allowed to have time to think whether the deal is acceptable. We're Charlton just sign right here and now and no you can't discuss it with you partner. We're Charlton sign now, we don't care if you have issues with your kids and schools. We're Charlton, we don't get if you'll have to move house or live in a hotel for 6 months, sign here & now. We're Charlton .....
But none of that is the case with Bowyer.
Southall said he spoke him about not leaving for another club. The smart money is either Cardiff or Huddersfield. That would have been mid November. 3 months ago.
The take over was announced at the end of November.
It received EFL approval in the first week of January.
If you number 1 priority was to get the incumbent manager to sign a new contract, why has it taken over 90 days to actually offer a contract? That appears to be not actually be acceptable to Bowyer?
I used the word "stinks" last night, which was probably to strong, but something doesn't add up to me.
What is wrong is that Bowyer hasn't agreed the contract. It's a negotiation. Who knows the terms, but I'd suggest it's not straight forward.
Negotiation is fine, the fact that we've been negotiating since October isn't. Obviously it's not straight forward which is why he hasn't signed. No player is going to sign if they don't know if LB is staying.
Now this is why you're getting in such a state. They haven't been negotiating since October.
NB I expect a signing to be announced very soon.
No but Southall is on record as saying he talked Bowyer about not leaving in November.
It sounds like they weren't even on the same page a week ago.
In all probability there was a conversation in November where MS said he wanted LB to stay and LB said he wanted to stay. MS probably said we'll sort it out later, once I've got the purchase all sorted and it was left at that. Then MS thinks that he's got LB as good as signed up so there's no rush to get contracts sorted, whilst LB thinks after the purchase means first thing after the purchase. Smacks of a lack of clarity and probably some naivety on both's parts (more so MS. LB should have gone to MS straightaway rather than blurting it out in an interview, whilst MS should have got the contract sorted first thing, and having not done that, got LB in a meeting ASAP after LB's initial rumblings rather than awkwardly announcing it mid-press conference without knowing if LB had seen the contract or not).
Regarding it not being done yet, it's frustrating, but inevitable as LB will be spending the majority of time working with his depleted squad whilst also working with Gallen to get the right players in. I really thought it'd be today to get it done ahead of the usual Thursday pressers, though it could still be announced before or even at the start of the press conference.
But getting it done is going to help getting the players in based on Bowyer's own words. Of course we don't have to be told it is done and maybe it is all done bar the shouting which is what potential new signings could be told to help get them over the line. But we don't know that. We also don't know of any of the pending signings that we have got over the line. When things start happening we will of course stop worrying.
Still not impressed by the messiah Southall. 16 days into January and so far we’ve seen the squad get worse and no Bowyer contract. If this post makes me look really daft in 2 weeks, I will be thrilled !
Just calling it as I see it. I think it is vitally important we give ourselves as much chance as possible on Saturday. Others may not be so bothered but it is a valid position seeing as we have had over two weeks to deal with what we should all agree is a crisis.
Buying new players isn't like going to the supermarket, sticking them in the trolley, and checking-out!
It starts with expressing interest/seeking permission to speak - and from that point onwards the vast majority of decisions are outwith the buying club's control.
Yes I am concerned, but not because I believe we are not trying.
So many football fans are fantasists.
They must think we speak to a player/manager and they should just sign almost immediately on the dotted line.
We're Charlton you're not allowed to have time to think whether the deal is acceptable. We're Charlton just sign right here and now and no you can't discuss it with you partner. We're Charlton sign now, we don't care if you have issues with your kids and schools. We're Charlton, we don't get if you'll have to move house or live in a hotel for 6 months, sign here & now. We're Charlton .....
But none of that is the case with Bowyer.
Southall said he spoke him about not leaving for another club. The smart money is either Cardiff or Huddersfield. That would have been mid November. 3 months ago.
The take over was announced at the end of November.
It received EFL approval in the first week of January.
If you number 1 priority was to get the incumbent manager to sign a new contract, why has it taken over 90 days to actually offer a contract? That appears to be not actually be acceptable to Bowyer?
I used the word "stinks" last night, which was probably to strong, but something doesn't add up to me.
What is wrong is that Bowyer hasn't agreed the contract. It's a negotiation. Who knows the terms, but I'd suggest it's not straight forward.
Negotiation is fine, the fact that we've been negotiating since October isn't. Obviously it's not straight forward which is why he hasn't signed. No player is going to sign if they don't know if LB is staying.
Now this is why you're getting in such a state. They haven't been negotiating since October.
NB I expect a signing to be announced very soon.
No but Southall is on record as saying he talked Bowyer about not leaving in November.
It sounds like they weren't even on the same page a week ago.
Yes, asking Bowyer not to leave is not the same as them negotiating a deal.
I still say they wouldn't be negotiating a deal 2/3 months before they own the club, which could never have been certain, when dealing with RD.
It's 100% unrealistic. I agree they may have had a chat and LB was told, that ESI would "look after him", but that's far & away from negotiating a deal.
Anyway, you'll never accept it. Even Grapevine told you it wouldn't happen.
I have a feeling that it is going to be very important to make His Excellency very welcome when he does visit the Valley. It may be that he is dipping his toe in the water and a buzzing Valley might do the trick. Southall has probably promised he could do a good job with X but is finding he might need Y.
Just calling it as I see it. I think it is vitally important we give ourselves as much chance as possible on Saturday. Others may not be so bothered but it is a valid position seeing as we have had over two weeks to deal with what we should all agree is a crisis.
Buying new players isn't like going to the supermarket, sticking them in the trolley, and checking-out!
It starts with expressing interest/seeking permission to speak - and from that point onwards the vast majority of decisions are outwith the buying club's control.
Yes I am concerned, but not because I believe we are not trying.
So many football fans are fantasists.
They must think we speak to a player/manager and they should just sign almost immediately on the dotted line.
We're Charlton you're not allowed to have time to think whether the deal is acceptable. We're Charlton just sign right here and now and no you can't discuss it with you partner. We're Charlton sign now, we don't care if you have issues with your kids and schools. We're Charlton, we don't get if you'll have to move house or live in a hotel for 6 months, sign here & now. We're Charlton .....
But none of that is the case with Bowyer.
Southall said he spoke him about not leaving for another club. The smart money is either Cardiff or Huddersfield. That would have been mid November. 3 months ago.
The take over was announced at the end of November.
It received EFL approval in the first week of January.
If you number 1 priority was to get the incumbent manager to sign a new contract, why has it taken over 90 days to actually offer a contract? That appears to be not actually be acceptable to Bowyer?
I used the word "stinks" last night, which was probably to strong, but something doesn't add up to me.
What is wrong is that Bowyer hasn't agreed the contract. It's a negotiation. Who knows the terms, but I'd suggest it's not straight forward.
Negotiation is fine, the fact that we've been negotiating since October isn't. Obviously it's not straight forward which is why he hasn't signed. No player is going to sign if they don't know if LB is staying.
Now this is why you're getting in such a state. They haven't been negotiating since October.
NB I expect a signing to be announced very soon.
No but Southall is on record as saying he talked Bowyer about not leaving in November.
It sounds like they weren't even on the same page a week ago.
Yes, asking Bowyer not to leave is not the same as them negotiating a deal.
I still say they wouldn't be negotiating a deal 2/3 months before they own the club, which could never have been certain, when dealing with RD.
It's 100% unrealistic. I agree they may have had a chat and LB was told, that ESI would "look after him", but that's far & away from negotiating a deal.
Anyway, you'll never accept it. Even Grapevine told you it wouldn't happen.
It's nieve to think that "ball park" figures couldn't be, shouldn't be or wouldn't be discussed.
It's a standard contract, it's how long, how much and how much does it cost to get out of it.
If Levey and Jose's agent can bang out a deal in a matter of days (or do you think they waited until Poch was sacked before they even spoke?) why can't 2 people who both say they want it done get it done?
Yes, you agree the key points and then somebody drafts it and then both parties check it and sign it. Shouldn't take too long. Delays are surely due to sticking points.
Just calling it as I see it. I think it is vitally important we give ourselves as much chance as possible on Saturday. Others may not be so bothered but it is a valid position seeing as we have had over two weeks to deal with what we should all agree is a crisis.
Buying new players isn't like going to the supermarket, sticking them in the trolley, and checking-out!
It starts with expressing interest/seeking permission to speak - and from that point onwards the vast majority of decisions are outwith the buying club's control.
Yes I am concerned, but not because I believe we are not trying.
So many football fans are fantasists.
They must think we speak to a player/manager and they should just sign almost immediately on the dotted line.
We're Charlton you're not allowed to have time to think whether the deal is acceptable. We're Charlton just sign right here and now and no you can't discuss it with you partner. We're Charlton sign now, we don't care if you have issues with your kids and schools. We're Charlton, we don't get if you'll have to move house or live in a hotel for 6 months, sign here & now. We're Charlton .....
But none of that is the case with Bowyer.
Southall said he spoke him about not leaving for another club. The smart money is either Cardiff or Huddersfield. That would have been mid November. 3 months ago.
The take over was announced at the end of November.
It received EFL approval in the first week of January.
If you number 1 priority was to get the incumbent manager to sign a new contract, why has it taken over 90 days to actually offer a contract? That appears to be not actually be acceptable to Bowyer?
I used the word "stinks" last night, which was probably to strong, but something doesn't add up to me.
What is wrong is that Bowyer hasn't agreed the contract. It's a negotiation. Who knows the terms, but I'd suggest it's not straight forward.
Negotiation is fine, the fact that we've been negotiating since October isn't. Obviously it's not straight forward which is why he hasn't signed. No player is going to sign if they don't know if LB is staying.
Now this is why you're getting in such a state. They haven't been negotiating since October.
NB I expect a signing to be announced very soon.
A signing soon, is that just a guess or something more?
Just calling it as I see it. I think it is vitally important we give ourselves as much chance as possible on Saturday. Others may not be so bothered but it is a valid position seeing as we have had over two weeks to deal with what we should all agree is a crisis.
Buying new players isn't like going to the supermarket, sticking them in the trolley, and checking-out!
It starts with expressing interest/seeking permission to speak - and from that point onwards the vast majority of decisions are outwith the buying club's control.
Yes I am concerned, but not because I believe we are not trying.
So many football fans are fantasists.
They must think we speak to a player/manager and they should just sign almost immediately on the dotted line.
We're Charlton you're not allowed to have time to think whether the deal is acceptable. We're Charlton just sign right here and now and no you can't discuss it with you partner. We're Charlton sign now, we don't care if you have issues with your kids and schools. We're Charlton, we don't get if you'll have to move house or live in a hotel for 6 months, sign here & now. We're Charlton .....
But none of that is the case with Bowyer.
Southall said he spoke him about not leaving for another club. The smart money is either Cardiff or Huddersfield. That would have been mid November. 3 months ago.
The take over was announced at the end of November.
It received EFL approval in the first week of January.
If you number 1 priority was to get the incumbent manager to sign a new contract, why has it taken over 90 days to actually offer a contract? That appears to be not actually be acceptable to Bowyer?
I used the word "stinks" last night, which was probably to strong, but something doesn't add up to me.
What is wrong is that Bowyer hasn't agreed the contract. It's a negotiation. Who knows the terms, but I'd suggest it's not straight forward.
Negotiation is fine, the fact that we've been negotiating since October isn't. Obviously it's not straight forward which is why he hasn't signed. No player is going to sign if they don't know if LB is staying.
Now this is why you're getting in such a state. They haven't been negotiating since October.
NB I expect a signing to be announced very soon.
No but Southall is on record as saying he talked Bowyer about not leaving in November.
It sounds like they weren't even on the same page a week ago.
Yes, asking Bowyer not to leave is not the same as them negotiating a deal.
I still say they wouldn't be negotiating a deal 2/3 months before they own the club, which could never have been certain, when dealing with RD.
It's 100% unrealistic. I agree they may have had a chat and LB was told, that ESI would "look after him", but that's far & away from negotiating a deal.
Anyway, you'll never accept it. Even Grapevine told you it wouldn't happen.
It's nieve to think that "ball park" figures couldn't be, shouldn't be or wouldn't be discussed.
It's a standard contract, it's how long, how much and how much does it cost to get out of it.
If Levey and Jose's agent can bang out a deal in a matter of days (or do you think they waited until Poch was sacked before they even spoke?) why can't 2 people who both say they want it done get it done?
The word is naive btw. I think you'll find Levy wasn't hoping to buy Spurs in 3 months time, when he negotiated that deal. I'm a little, but not overly surprised that you can't see the difference/understand.
Just calling it as I see it. I think it is vitally important we give ourselves as much chance as possible on Saturday. Others may not be so bothered but it is a valid position seeing as we have had over two weeks to deal with what we should all agree is a crisis.
Buying new players isn't like going to the supermarket, sticking them in the trolley, and checking-out!
It starts with expressing interest/seeking permission to speak - and from that point onwards the vast majority of decisions are outwith the buying club's control.
Yes I am concerned, but not because I believe we are not trying.
So many football fans are fantasists.
They must think we speak to a player/manager and they should just sign almost immediately on the dotted line.
We're Charlton you're not allowed to have time to think whether the deal is acceptable. We're Charlton just sign right here and now and no you can't discuss it with you partner. We're Charlton sign now, we don't care if you have issues with your kids and schools. We're Charlton, we don't get if you'll have to move house or live in a hotel for 6 months, sign here & now. We're Charlton .....
But none of that is the case with Bowyer.
Southall said he spoke him about not leaving for another club. The smart money is either Cardiff or Huddersfield. That would have been mid November. 3 months ago.
The take over was announced at the end of November.
It received EFL approval in the first week of January.
If you number 1 priority was to get the incumbent manager to sign a new contract, why has it taken over 90 days to actually offer a contract? That appears to be not actually be acceptable to Bowyer?
I used the word "stinks" last night, which was probably to strong, but something doesn't add up to me.
What is wrong is that Bowyer hasn't agreed the contract. It's a negotiation. Who knows the terms, but I'd suggest it's not straight forward.
Negotiation is fine, the fact that we've been negotiating since October isn't. Obviously it's not straight forward which is why he hasn't signed. No player is going to sign if they don't know if LB is staying.
Now this is why you're getting in such a state. They haven't been negotiating since October.
NB I expect a signing to be announced very soon.
A signing soon, is that just a guess or something more?
Just calling it as I see it. I think it is vitally important we give ourselves as much chance as possible on Saturday. Others may not be so bothered but it is a valid position seeing as we have had over two weeks to deal with what we should all agree is a crisis.
Buying new players isn't like going to the supermarket, sticking them in the trolley, and checking-out!
It starts with expressing interest/seeking permission to speak - and from that point onwards the vast majority of decisions are outwith the buying club's control.
Yes I am concerned, but not because I believe we are not trying.
So many football fans are fantasists.
They must think we speak to a player/manager and they should just sign almost immediately on the dotted line.
We're Charlton you're not allowed to have time to think whether the deal is acceptable. We're Charlton just sign right here and now and no you can't discuss it with you partner. We're Charlton sign now, we don't care if you have issues with your kids and schools. We're Charlton, we don't get if you'll have to move house or live in a hotel for 6 months, sign here & now. We're Charlton .....
But none of that is the case with Bowyer.
Southall said he spoke him about not leaving for another club. The smart money is either Cardiff or Huddersfield. That would have been mid November. 3 months ago.
The take over was announced at the end of November.
It received EFL approval in the first week of January.
If you number 1 priority was to get the incumbent manager to sign a new contract, why has it taken over 90 days to actually offer a contract? That appears to be not actually be acceptable to Bowyer?
I used the word "stinks" last night, which was probably to strong, but something doesn't add up to me.
What is wrong is that Bowyer hasn't agreed the contract. It's a negotiation. Who knows the terms, but I'd suggest it's not straight forward.
Negotiation is fine, the fact that we've been negotiating since October isn't. Obviously it's not straight forward which is why he hasn't signed. No player is going to sign if they don't know if LB is staying.
Now this is why you're getting in such a state. They haven't been negotiating since October.
NB I expect a signing to be announced very soon.
A signing soon, is that just a guess or something more?
Just calling it as I see it. I think it is vitally important we give ourselves as much chance as possible on Saturday. Others may not be so bothered but it is a valid position seeing as we have had over two weeks to deal with what we should all agree is a crisis.
Buying new players isn't like going to the supermarket, sticking them in the trolley, and checking-out!
It starts with expressing interest/seeking permission to speak - and from that point onwards the vast majority of decisions are outwith the buying club's control.
Yes I am concerned, but not because I believe we are not trying.
So many football fans are fantasists.
They must think we speak to a player/manager and they should just sign almost immediately on the dotted line.
We're Charlton you're not allowed to have time to think whether the deal is acceptable. We're Charlton just sign right here and now and no you can't discuss it with you partner. We're Charlton sign now, we don't care if you have issues with your kids and schools. We're Charlton, we don't get if you'll have to move house or live in a hotel for 6 months, sign here & now. We're Charlton .....
But none of that is the case with Bowyer.
Southall said he spoke him about not leaving for another club. The smart money is either Cardiff or Huddersfield. That would have been mid November. 3 months ago.
The take over was announced at the end of November.
It received EFL approval in the first week of January.
If you number 1 priority was to get the incumbent manager to sign a new contract, why has it taken over 90 days to actually offer a contract? That appears to be not actually be acceptable to Bowyer?
I used the word "stinks" last night, which was probably to strong, but something doesn't add up to me.
What is wrong is that Bowyer hasn't agreed the contract. It's a negotiation. Who knows the terms, but I'd suggest it's not straight forward.
Negotiation is fine, the fact that we've been negotiating since October isn't. Obviously it's not straight forward which is why he hasn't signed. No player is going to sign if they don't know if LB is staying.
Now this is why you're getting in such a state. They haven't been negotiating since October.
NB I expect a signing to be announced very soon.
A signing soon, is that just a guess or something more?
Just calling it as I see it. I think it is vitally important we give ourselves as much chance as possible on Saturday. Others may not be so bothered but it is a valid position seeing as we have had over two weeks to deal with what we should all agree is a crisis.
Buying new players isn't like going to the supermarket, sticking them in the trolley, and checking-out!
It starts with expressing interest/seeking permission to speak - and from that point onwards the vast majority of decisions are outwith the buying club's control.
Yes I am concerned, but not because I believe we are not trying.
So many football fans are fantasists.
They must think we speak to a player/manager and they should just sign almost immediately on the dotted line.
We're Charlton you're not allowed to have time to think whether the deal is acceptable. We're Charlton just sign right here and now and no you can't discuss it with you partner. We're Charlton sign now, we don't care if you have issues with your kids and schools. We're Charlton, we don't get if you'll have to move house or live in a hotel for 6 months, sign here & now. We're Charlton .....
But none of that is the case with Bowyer.
Southall said he spoke him about not leaving for another club. The smart money is either Cardiff or Huddersfield. That would have been mid November. 3 months ago.
The take over was announced at the end of November.
It received EFL approval in the first week of January.
If you number 1 priority was to get the incumbent manager to sign a new contract, why has it taken over 90 days to actually offer a contract? That appears to be not actually be acceptable to Bowyer?
I used the word "stinks" last night, which was probably to strong, but something doesn't add up to me.
What is wrong is that Bowyer hasn't agreed the contract. It's a negotiation. Who knows the terms, but I'd suggest it's not straight forward.
Negotiation is fine, the fact that we've been negotiating since October isn't. Obviously it's not straight forward which is why he hasn't signed. No player is going to sign if they don't know if LB is staying.
Now this is why you're getting in such a state. They haven't been negotiating since October.
NB I expect a signing to be announced very soon.
A signing soon, is that just a guess or something more?
Just calling it as I see it. I think it is vitally important we give ourselves as much chance as possible on Saturday. Others may not be so bothered but it is a valid position seeing as we have had over two weeks to deal with what we should all agree is a crisis.
Buying new players isn't like going to the supermarket, sticking them in the trolley, and checking-out!
It starts with expressing interest/seeking permission to speak - and from that point onwards the vast majority of decisions are outwith the buying club's control.
Yes I am concerned, but not because I believe we are not trying.
So many football fans are fantasists.
They must think we speak to a player/manager and they should just sign almost immediately on the dotted line.
We're Charlton you're not allowed to have time to think whether the deal is acceptable. We're Charlton just sign right here and now and no you can't discuss it with you partner. We're Charlton sign now, we don't care if you have issues with your kids and schools. We're Charlton, we don't get if you'll have to move house or live in a hotel for 6 months, sign here & now. We're Charlton .....
But none of that is the case with Bowyer.
Southall said he spoke him about not leaving for another club. The smart money is either Cardiff or Huddersfield. That would have been mid November. 3 months ago.
The take over was announced at the end of November.
It received EFL approval in the first week of January.
If you number 1 priority was to get the incumbent manager to sign a new contract, why has it taken over 90 days to actually offer a contract? That appears to be not actually be acceptable to Bowyer?
I used the word "stinks" last night, which was probably to strong, but something doesn't add up to me.
What is wrong is that Bowyer hasn't agreed the contract. It's a negotiation. Who knows the terms, but I'd suggest it's not straight forward.
Negotiation is fine, the fact that we've been negotiating since October isn't. Obviously it's not straight forward which is why he hasn't signed. No player is going to sign if they don't know if LB is staying.
Now this is why you're getting in such a state. They haven't been negotiating since October.
NB I expect a signing to be announced very soon.
A signing soon, is that just a guess or something more?
I'm hoping Toffolo will be signed this week.
He’s going Huddersfield isn’t he ?
I'm hoping he's coming to us. Where did you see Huddersfield ?
Comments
Either way, he does have a point about wanting to understand the term of the contract and possible compensation in the event it's terminated. Grapevine's points about being paid big wages because there are big risks, no compensation being one of them may work in the corporate world but we hear al the time about managers being sacked and paid off eg Conte understood to have been paid £21m to leave Chelsea. Managers like Big Sam have earned more in play-offs than wages. "Compensation" might not be the right term but the contracts are basically paid up.
Then putting the pieces together, Bowyer and Southall clearly agreed to put the negotiations aside until after the window. Logically, this suggests they were far from straightforward but Southall may have seen this as a solution in that the line could be given that Bowyer is going to sign a contract but they both want to use their time on priorities like signings. But Bowyer clearly didn't see it this way nor have a desire to co-operate. The agreement may have been a bit more one sided than he wanted. And a message leaked to the press forced Southall to try to address. Again this is backed up by Airman suggesting Bowyer was angry at Southalls initial interview.
In the meantime, of course Bowyer is going to say reassuring things like it is close, just needs a bit of tweaking etc...It isn't logical to throw his rattle out of the pram. But he knows the new owners want to start with a good impression and seems to be using that against them to get the sort of deal he wants. What we don't know is whether what he is being offered is decent or not. But what I do know is that if Bowyer signs a new deal the path ahead will look significantly smoother. And I will certainly worry less.
Would be good to have Bowyer signed up before the weekend. We don’t want to announce an uplift in all players wages but maybe we could do something now for all we eat to stay. Be sensible to push the 2018/2019 wage structure a bit but not go back to the 2015.2016 structure immediately.
Anyway; this is no time for hysteria. There is much to do and little time to do it. We can reflect on our position when the transfer window closes. Until then, we need to hold our nerve. Steady the Buffs!
Get a grip
Jesus...
It is perfectly legitimate indeed necessary to ask during due diligence whether Senior Management will be staying in situ. They represent an important aspect of the business and the value you will pay for the company but you cannot go beyond that.
Negotiations of any sort are definitely a no, no. I worked on a joint venture for 12 months which my company pulled out of. The prospective partner found a new bank to work with and approached me but I nearly had to spend 3 months on gardening leave. In the end my employers decided as I was going to the States I was no immediate threat to their operations. Indeed in my new role I could bring more business to them which I did.
I respect this is all a matter of experience which some simply will not have had.
I confess I am annoyed because expectations are being created.
In itself it is no bad thing and comes with the territory of opening up a dialogue with your stakeholders but you have to control it. People will always read into what you say what they want to read. So clarity is essential and you really do have to be ahead of the game at every turn otherwise you end up endlessly reacting and the business controls you - not the other way round.
Social media exaggerates the issue a 1000 times. Some can argue it is only an "internet" thing but the internet feeds into main stream media. It can and will influence your market in ways you will never know.
For what it is worth I am comfortable with where ESI appear to be heading but it does need to be a tighter ship.
No boating puns please.
There is a major switch from being in the project mode of buying the club, and the continuing project of buying the training ground and being in operational mode. Different demands, different skills and crucially a different audience.
Southall appears to need a few "Monday morning prayers" with his Board and Seniors Manager to get everybody on the same page.
Then every "key player" should be aware of all the issues and they can be addressed.
For example, respecting Gallen may have been completely shafted with the Gallagher situation, it is a situation which should never come as a surprise. He has done a great job but I am sorry he is accountable and we are now having to rush around to fill another gap which has significant budgetary and recruitment implications for the entire business.
As the CEO I am saying Steve "How did you not know?
Once you structure such a management group everybody should be on the same page and can be proactive in managing issues away rather than having to reactively respond.
Not saying he would say that, but he might!
Just one point in your comments that I don't agree with, @AFKABartram, is that in bold. I don't think it's at all clear that there is money there. That will be proven when things (hopefully) start happening.
They haven't been negotiating since October.
NB I expect a signing to be announced very soon.
It sounds like they weren't even on the same page a week ago.
Regarding it not being done yet, it's frustrating, but inevitable as LB will be spending the majority of time working with his depleted squad whilst also working with Gallen to get the right players in. I really thought it'd be today to get it done ahead of the usual Thursday pressers, though it could still be announced before or even at the start of the press conference.
I still say they wouldn't be negotiating a deal 2/3 months before they own the club, which could never have been certain, when dealing with RD.
It's 100% unrealistic. I agree they may have had a chat and LB was told, that ESI would "look after him", but that's far & away from negotiating a deal.
Anyway, you'll never accept it. Even Grapevine told you it wouldn't happen.
It's a standard contract, it's how long, how much and how much does it cost to get out of it.
If Levey and Jose's agent can bang out a deal in a matter of days (or do you think they waited until Poch was sacked before they even spoke?) why can't 2 people who both say they want it done get it done?
I think you'll find Levy wasn't hoping to buy Spurs in 3 months time, when he negotiated that deal.
I'm a little, but not overly surprised that you can't see the difference/understand.
Where did you see Huddersfield ?