Stoke are in a false position in the league I didn’t expect them to be down there for so long - completely outplayed from start to finish and got what we deserved - nothing.
A 2k away following with quite a shunt of a journey followed by a sold out valley If we cant pick anything up out of these 2 then we are in trouble, fortunately we still have to play Wigan and Luton at home, our final game of the season Leeds away was hoping for them to have the autos wrapped up and roll over - but they are doing a bottle job as per.
Police Saturday was very ott certainly won’t be in a rush back to stoke - crap overpriced pub before hand and after - although the buses were v handy and quick.
Just looking at our remaining fixtures, league positions in brackets
Forest a ( 4th ) blackburn h ( 12th ) Luton h ( 24th ) Sheff weds a ( 11th) Huddersfield a ( 19th ) Middlesbrough h (18th ) Hull a ( 14th ) Qpr h ( 17th ) Cardiff a (8th ) Millwall h ( 10th ) Brentford a ( 5th ) Reading h ( 16th )
Birmingham a ( 15th ) Wigan h ( 22nd ) Leeds a ( 2nd )
we have to play a lot of the bottom half teams from law of averages we need 47.2 points to stay up so 15 points from the above set of fixtures.
How are Stoke in a false position?
As in there squad is too good to be relegated - I think
Stoke are in a false position in the league I didn’t expect them to be down there for so long - completely outplayed from start to finish and got what we deserved - nothing.
A 2k away following with quite a shunt of a journey followed by a sold out valley If we cant pick anything up out of these 2 then we are in trouble, fortunately we still have to play Wigan and Luton at home, our final game of the season Leeds away was hoping for them to have the autos wrapped up and roll over - but they are doing a bottle job as per.
Police Saturday was very ott certainly won’t be in a rush back to stoke - crap overpriced pub before hand and after - although the buses were v handy and quick.
Just looking at our remaining fixtures, league positions in brackets
Forest a ( 4th ) blackburn h ( 12th ) Luton h ( 24th ) Sheff weds a ( 11th) Huddersfield a ( 19th ) Middlesbrough h (18th ) Hull a ( 14th ) Qpr h ( 17th ) Cardiff a (8th ) Millwall h ( 10th ) Brentford a ( 5th ) Reading h ( 16th )
Birmingham a ( 15th ) Wigan h ( 22nd ) Leeds a ( 2nd )
we have to play a lot of the bottom half teams from law of averages we need 47.2 points to stay up so 15 points from the above set of fixtures.
How are Stoke in a false position?
As in there squad is too good to be relegated - I think
To covered end,I am not into jigging or dancing,my point is that police chiefs are forever whining about lack of manpower,but there never seems to be a shortage of manpower for an easy 6 hours overtime at a football match.There will be at least 50-60 on saturday,this will be repeated all over the country,their presence could well prevent the odd fight,but the prospect of someone getting knifed to death are limited.Would not the same presence in some of our more troubled areas be more suitable.
Yes we didn't get going yesterday but even on reflection today I think we were made to look even more average than normal by a decent side who would be top six if O'Neill had been in charge since the summer.
Their home results since he took charge:
Stoke 2-1 Wigan
Stoke 1-2 Blackburn
Stoke 3-0 Luton
Stoke 0-0 Reading
Stoke 3-2 Sheff Wed
Stoke 0-0 Millwall
Stoke 2-0 Swansea
Stoke 3-1 Charlton
Four clean sheets in their last five before us suggests a team that is finding their groove under the new boss. They are well drilled and work hard, to go with the talent of Tom Ince, Nick Powell et al.
We were able to get the better of them early in the season because they couldn't stop letting in goals. It took them nine games to concede less than two in a game(!!!) They are a different animal now and as expected, ran out comfortable winners.
Yes we know Stoke have improved, you've made that point plenty of times. We were still appalling.
I'm clearly fighting a losing battle based on the likes and LOLs that the responses are getting.
Funny thing is that I don't think we actually disagree that much regarding the performance. Did I think we played well? No. Did I think we were unlucky to lose? Absolutely not. Did I need to say that again after 50 other people have already said the same thing? Nah.
What frustrates me is post-match comments like "we were sh*t" or "Bowyer needs to take his hands out of his pockets and do something" without any nuance or taking a look at the bigger picture.
I come onto the post match thread trying to explain potential reasons for WHY we lost (earlier in the season it was injuries, yesterday it was Stoke having better players and better form) and people come at me like I'm making excuses. I'm not.
If you can find the root cause of your bad results then you can begin to do something about it. If you dismiss everything as sh*t and don't look for the causes, don't expect it to get any better.
Maybe I'll have to preface my future posts so people don't think I'm a happy clapper.
Stoke were a better side than us, better players and a better gameplan. The fact is though, they were below us before the match started and played us off the park like a team in the playoffs would do. I get that you're saying it's ok because they're in a false position but the fact is they've played over half their games this season and are down in the mix with us. It's worrying to be that far from the quality of fellow relegation rivals.
Stoke are in a false position in the league I didn’t expect them to be down there for so long - completely outplayed from start to finish and got what we deserved - nothing.
A 2k away following with quite a shunt of a journey followed by a sold out valley If we cant pick anything up out of these 2 then we are in trouble, fortunately we still have to play Wigan and Luton at home, our final game of the season Leeds away was hoping for them to have the autos wrapped up and roll over - but they are doing a bottle job as per.
Police Saturday was very ott certainly won’t be in a rush back to stoke - crap overpriced pub before hand and after - although the buses were v handy and quick.
Just looking at our remaining fixtures, league positions in brackets
Forest a ( 4th ) blackburn h ( 12th ) Luton h ( 24th ) Sheff weds a ( 11th) Huddersfield a ( 19th ) Middlesbrough h (18th ) Hull a ( 14th ) Qpr h ( 17th ) Cardiff a (8th ) Millwall h ( 10th ) Brentford a ( 5th ) Reading h ( 16th )
Birmingham a ( 15th ) Wigan h ( 22nd ) Leeds a ( 2nd )
we have to play a lot of the bottom half teams from law of averages we need 47.2 points to stay up so 15 points from the above set of fixtures.
How are Stoke in a false position?
As in there squad is too good to be relegated - I think
Each team is where they are for a reason.
They had a very bad start to the season we had a very good one
Stoke are in a false position in the league I didn’t expect them to be down there for so long - completely outplayed from start to finish and got what we deserved - nothing.
A 2k away following with quite a shunt of a journey followed by a sold out valley If we cant pick anything up out of these 2 then we are in trouble, fortunately we still have to play Wigan and Luton at home, our final game of the season Leeds away was hoping for them to have the autos wrapped up and roll over - but they are doing a bottle job as per.
Police Saturday was very ott certainly won’t be in a rush back to stoke - crap overpriced pub before hand and after - although the buses were v handy and quick.
Just looking at our remaining fixtures, league positions in brackets
Forest a ( 4th ) blackburn h ( 12th ) Luton h ( 24th ) Sheff weds a ( 11th) Huddersfield a ( 19th ) Middlesbrough h (18th ) Hull a ( 14th ) Qpr h ( 17th ) Cardiff a (8th ) Millwall h ( 10th ) Brentford a ( 5th ) Reading h ( 16th )
Birmingham a ( 15th ) Wigan h ( 22nd ) Leeds a ( 2nd )
we have to play a lot of the bottom half teams from law of averages we need 47.2 points to stay up so 15 points from the above set of fixtures.
How are Stoke in a false position?
They have a decent squad of players, many of whom could be in the PL
They are only low down due to a terrible start to the season under a different manager who sadly for whatever reason, was a bit out of his depth there
I don't care how good Stoke are tbh. They lost 4-0 in their previous game and in the few attacking parts of the game we had they didn't look the best defensively. The fact is though, we didn't do enough to really test that. When Plan A wasn't working, I can think what I would have done. The detail of that is irrelevant and it may not have worked. Others may have done other things, it isn't the right or wrongs of what could be done but the fact that something is being tried to be done.
Williams for Oztumer would have been planned pre-game so in effect the only tactical personnel change was Doughty for Purrington. We had Hemed on the bench and Sarr who could have caused some issues to them with his physical presence. Like I said, maybe they wouldn't have made a difference but surely you try something. Anyway, maybe best not to dwell on this too much - the performance was disapointing and maybe there is an element of frustration in our reaction to it.
We probably all need to put it behind us and see how we go on Tuesday. It is not reasonable to demand a win, but I think it is to demand a better overall performance.
Re Williams getting fouled by Stoke players in rotation, with no yellows being shown. In basketball they have a cumulative system where after five fouls on a player, the next offender goes to the sin bin (according to a mate). Perhaps a similar system should be used in football, with a yellow instead of the sin bin. It's so easy for a team to target one player that they have picked out as a threat to them, as they did with Williams yesterday. Before he left for Swansea it was Gallagher, and now he' gone, it's most likely to be Williams. Otzumer, who replaced him yesterday, didn't appear to be targeted as much, but was that perhaps because they were already three one up? Or perhaps he's actually slightly more illusive when on he ball?
But overall I think our best bet v. Forest would be to pick a much more attacking side and go all out for the win. Nothing to be gained from setting up defensively and in all probability getting hammered again.
With McGeady on board we now seem to have someone who can take decent free kicks on goal. If we ever have Williams and McGeady on the pitch at the same time, maybe we can actually make something out of those free kicks resulting from fouls on Williams. He just needs to make sure he falls down like a sack of spuds anytime he gets within 5 yards of the penalty area!!
I think we will suffer badly from losing Connor and a very poor window. Pulling in 3 players who are unwanted by their own teams isn’t good business ( Man City boy obviously not included in that ). Personally, should have bit the bullet with Maddison and moved on. Am also concerned with substitutions. I remember going through a similar situation under AC when he would only change on 70mins regardless. How you can possibly lose away so badly and only use two subs is beyond me. Throw Naby up top and have a go. Bowyer knows more than I do, but you make your own luck sometimes. I think the team tomorrow night will surprise us all. Might see Cullen on the bench.
Regards the police there was certainly more there than I have seen in years but the majority of them were friendly and helpful. Far better than the utter knobs that we saw at West Brom.
At the game. Taylor lost his man for their first goal and Matthews switched off from marking McLean who couldn't believe his luck for a simple tap in. For theIr second, three of our players appeared mesmerised at the oncoming player in the inside right position, whilst Matthews failed to keep a tight line and played Ince onside to score. Their third was a failure by Purrington to cut out the cross, Pearce looked like he was standing in treacle and Lockyer allowed Powell to get a yard on him to be first to the ball and score, shambolic!
Set pieces weren't the reason why we lost yesterday though, it was mainly defenders once again not doing their jobs properly. Nothing we can do about it now but a commanding CB who attacks the ball in the air is desperately needed in the summer. As for attacking intent our midfield and forwards weren't at the races either. It was a very bad day at the office all round as we were second best all over the park.
I agree with almost all of this, but the thing we have to remember is that there's no magic centre half who will come in and completely transform our fortunes. Really we need an improvement at CB, LB and RB. Matthews is decent but we should be looking to sign better to compete with him, Purrington is a hard worker but doesn't really suit the way Bowyer likes to use full backs and we could do with someone stronger at CB. Looking at the players though they're not bad at all. Naby and Pearce aren't duds, we just have to have a serious look at how we're coaching the defence and that's something that will come from the coaching team more than just new players. Ideally now that we're out of Roland's penny pinching it would be nice to have a slightly larger coaching staff, maybe bring in a more experienced coach to work alongside the others. The reality is though right now we're getting the worst out of some decent players and there's no obvious single solution to the problem; not just new players, the midfield being back, the coaching, it's all got to come together. The troubling thing is that probably won't happen until the summer at the earliest.
Fair comment @Garrymanilow a more experienced coach wouldn't be a bad thing but Pearce and Mathews are experienced pros though and it's almost impossible to teach an old dog new tricks. Also it doesn't matter how much coaching you give a player if he hasn't got sufficient ability 😉.
Fair comment @Garrymanilow a more experienced coach wouldn't be a bad thing but Pearce and Mathews are experienced pros though and it's almost impossible to teach an old dog new tricks. Also it doesn't matter how much coaching you give a player if he hasn't got sufficient ability 😉.
Absolutely, we need to invest in the defence in the summer. Pearce is never going to be able to stick with real pace coming at him and we'll be undone by really talented players. Saturday's game was all about lapses in concentration though, all of those goals could have been avoided if the defenders had been switched on and alive to second phases, attacking movement and pass options. It's not like we got wrecked by superior pace and technique, it was all defenders going to sleep, not communicating and failing to read the play as it evolved. All three goals could have been avoided just by defenders moving a yard one way or the other and running with their man, instead we gave Stoke three of the easiest goals they'll ever score. I'd hope that in training they'll be looking at hammering the importance of concentration into the players because that's something you can focus on in any player.
The problem is with our defence is that it can defend well, but it is also prone to lapses. My observations of it are that whilst I have seen us defend like heroes blocking shots and closing down, I have also seen us fail to pick up people we should and not win balls we should. The net result of this is that we can't rely on a defensive approach as we are always likely to concede.
Now when most of your team is out injured, you don't have a choice and it is often damage limitation but we are now on paper fielding a stronger side and not having to rely on youngsters who are not yet ready. I thought our bench looked as strong as it has been for a long while on Saturday too. Seeing as keeping out opponents is going to be an issue between now and the end of the season, surely a big factor in our approach has to be about creating chances at the other end.
There are lots of teams who have similar issues and it is about getting the balance right with the players we have. If we go to every away game trying to stop them scoring and not providing much threat, we are unlikely to win any of them and may grab a draw or two. One win is worth three games of draws - surely the set up and approach we had on Saturday is not sensible. Basically, if we allow teams to come onto us, they will invariably score.
If that performance had come at any other time there are loads of excuses that could have been used.
The fact is that's probably our strongest team on paper.
We had a full week to prepare.
9 out of the 11 have played together a lot.
They may have been out classed, by better players, fair enough but to be out battled and not be able to pass to each other isn't acceptable.
If we played like that in August and September not only would we probably as good as relegated already Bowyer would have been given a free pass, by many.
A lot of us thought results, and performances, would improve with the return of Taylor, Williams and Cullen. Time will tell but the last 2 games have suggested other wise.
To covered end,I am not into jigging or dancing,my point is that police chiefs are forever whining about lack of manpower,but there never seems to be a shortage of manpower for an easy 6 hours overtime at a football match.There will be at least 50-60 on saturday,this will be repeated all over the country,their presence could well prevent the odd fight,but the prospect of someone getting knifed to death are limited.Would not the same presence in some of our more troubled areas be more suitable.
Which trouble area would they be better employed on Saturday at 16.45 ? If they aren't in Floyd Road and it all kicks off (which it probably would with no police), then you would 100% get complaints that there was no/not enough police presence.
Stoke are in a false position in the league I didn’t expect them to be down there for so long - completely outplayed from start to finish and got what we deserved - nothing.
A 2k away following with quite a shunt of a journey followed by a sold out valley If we cant pick anything up out of these 2 then we are in trouble, fortunately we still have to play Wigan and Luton at home, our final game of the season Leeds away was hoping for them to have the autos wrapped up and roll over - but they are doing a bottle job as per.
Police Saturday was very ott certainly won’t be in a rush back to stoke - crap overpriced pub before hand and after - although the buses were v handy and quick.
Just looking at our remaining fixtures, league positions in brackets
Forest a ( 4th ) blackburn h ( 12th ) Luton h ( 24th ) Sheff weds a ( 11th) Huddersfield a ( 19th ) Middlesbrough h (18th ) Hull a ( 14th ) Qpr h ( 17th ) Cardiff a (8th ) Millwall h ( 10th ) Brentford a ( 5th ) Reading h ( 16th )
Birmingham a ( 15th ) Wigan h ( 22nd ) Leeds a ( 2nd )
we have to play a lot of the bottom half teams from law of averages we need 47.2 points to stay up so 15 points from the above set of fixtures.
How are Stoke in a false position?
They have a decent squad of players, many of whom could be in the PL
They are only low down due to a terrible start to the season under a different manager who sadly for whatever reason, was a bit out of his depth there
If the season started today, Stoke would be a strong play off contender. They didn't give us a sniff all game. Tall, strong, powerful and full of running.
To covered end,I am not saying there should be no police.With regards the times,if they work 8 hours a day,that could be better allocated to patrolling areas where gangs and drug runners hang out,we might save a few lives.Obviously when we play Millwall a strong presence is required.
Stoke are in a false position in the league I didn’t expect them to be down there for so long - completely outplayed from start to finish and got what we deserved - nothing.
A 2k away following with quite a shunt of a journey followed by a sold out valley If we cant pick anything up out of these 2 then we are in trouble, fortunately we still have to play Wigan and Luton at home, our final game of the season Leeds away was hoping for them to have the autos wrapped up and roll over - but they are doing a bottle job as per.
Police Saturday was very ott certainly won’t be in a rush back to stoke - crap overpriced pub before hand and after - although the buses were v handy and quick.
Just looking at our remaining fixtures, league positions in brackets
Forest a ( 4th ) blackburn h ( 12th ) Luton h ( 24th ) Sheff weds a ( 11th) Huddersfield a ( 19th ) Middlesbrough h (18th ) Hull a ( 14th ) Qpr h ( 17th ) Cardiff a (8th ) Millwall h ( 10th ) Brentford a ( 5th ) Reading h ( 16th )
Birmingham a ( 15th ) Wigan h ( 22nd ) Leeds a ( 2nd )
we have to play a lot of the bottom half teams from law of averages we need 47.2 points to stay up so 15 points from the above set of fixtures.
How are Stoke in a false position?
As in there squad is too good to be relegated - I think
Each team is where they are for a reason.
They had a very bad start to the season we had a very good one
We have had multiple injuries which have not helped matters.
However, we can always rustle up excuses but at the end of the season you finish where you deserve to be.
Late to the party but my view is the lack of energy in midfield and defence. Pratley dies a good job at what he does, as does pearce and I will say Davis will. But you can't have all three in a starting line up. Too negative and means we are easy to close down and pressure. They should be swapping pratley and davis over each other not starting both so you get them at their best doing the horrible jobs.
It's about that time of the season when players/teams benefit from a rest. Our boys looked jaded on Saturday.
Half of them haven't been playing for weeks!
And even they look knackered! Joking apart, you'd hope Williams and Taylor will improve with games, but the rest seem to be fading out as the season progresses.
Comments
They are only low down due to a terrible start to the season under a different manager who sadly for whatever reason, was a bit out of his depth there
Williams for Oztumer would have been planned pre-game so in effect the only tactical personnel change was Doughty for Purrington. We had Hemed on the bench and Sarr who could have caused some issues to them with his physical presence. Like I said, maybe they wouldn't have made a difference but surely you try something. Anyway, maybe best not to dwell on this too much - the performance was disapointing and maybe there is an element of frustration in our reaction to it.
We probably all need to put it behind us and see how we go on Tuesday. It is not reasonable to demand a win, but I think it is to demand a better overall performance.
Am also concerned with substitutions. I remember going through a similar situation under AC when he would only change on 70mins regardless. How you can possibly lose away so badly and only use two subs is beyond me. Throw Naby up top and have a go. Bowyer knows more than I do, but you make your own luck sometimes.
I think the team tomorrow night will surprise us all. Might see Cullen on the bench.
Wont rush back.
Far better than the utter knobs that we saw at West Brom.
Now when most of your team is out injured, you don't have a choice and it is often damage limitation but we are now on paper fielding a stronger side and not having to rely on youngsters who are not yet ready. I thought our bench looked as strong as it has been for a long while on Saturday too. Seeing as keeping out opponents is going to be an issue between now and the end of the season, surely a big factor in our approach has to be about creating chances at the other end.
There are lots of teams who have similar issues and it is about getting the balance right with the players we have. If we go to every away game trying to stop them scoring and not providing much threat, we are unlikely to win any of them and may grab a draw or two. One win is worth three games of draws - surely the set up and approach we had on Saturday is not sensible. Basically, if we allow teams to come onto us, they will invariably score.
The fact is that's probably our strongest team on paper.
We had a full week to prepare.
9 out of the 11 have played together a lot.
They may have been out classed, by better players, fair enough but to be out battled and not be able to pass to each other isn't acceptable.
If we played like that in August and September not only would we probably as good as relegated already Bowyer would have been given a free pass, by many.
A lot of us thought results, and performances, would improve with the return of Taylor, Williams and Cullen. Time will tell but the last 2 games have suggested other wise.
If they aren't in Floyd Road and it all kicks off (which it probably would with no police), then you would 100% get complaints that there was no/not enough police presence.
They didn't give us a sniff all game.
Tall, strong, powerful and full of running.
However, we can always rustle up excuses but at the end of the season you finish where you deserve to be.
Edit for spelling