I think we need to give Bowyer a chance - everybody can make mistakes. But let's not pretend mistakes have not been made. He was a breath of fresh air when he came into management. I loved that he always tried to win. Ok, we are in a tougher division but it is the only way to go. Become ultra negative and you are just like the rest of the bland management tosh which is throughout football.
If you operate in the Championship with Burton Albion’s budget don’t be surprised if you get Burton Albion’s outcomes.
Burton stayed up in their first season, by the way.
Yes we didn't get going yesterday but even on reflection today I think we were made to look even more average than normal by a decent side who would be top six if O'Neill had been in charge since the summer.
Their home results since he took charge:
Stoke 2-1 Wigan
Stoke 1-2 Blackburn
Stoke 3-0 Luton
Stoke 0-0 Reading
Stoke 3-2 Sheff Wed
Stoke 0-0 Millwall
Stoke 2-0 Swansea
Stoke 3-1 Charlton
Four clean sheets in their last five before us suggests a team that is finding their groove under the new boss. They are well drilled and work hard, to go with the talent of Tom Ince, Nick Powell et al.
We were able to get the better of them early in the season because they couldn't stop letting in goals. It took them nine games to concede less than two in a game(!!!) They are a different animal now and as expected, ran out comfortable winners.
I think we need to give Bowyer a chance - everybody can make mistakes. But let's not pretend mistakes have not been made. He was a breath of fresh air when he came into management. I loved that he always tried to win. Ok, we are in a tougher division but it is the only way to go. Become ultra negative and you are just like the rest of the bland management tosh which is throughout football.
If you operate in the Championship with Burton Albion’s budget don’t be surprised if you get Burton Albion’s outcomes.
Burton stayed up in their first season, by the way.
I can accept defeat and your point but not like Saturday. We could play that game 100 times and we would lose 100 times with the tactics we employed and the unwillingness to even attempt something different when they clearly were not working. That is what I saw yesterday.
You are giving Stoke far too much credit. They were good yesterday but we have won two in 20 (is it?) and god graced us againt Barnsley or else it would still be one win. We are horrible.
The hope is we are suddenly going to turn around such terrible form? How? Based on what? Our clean sheet record or our fabulous attacking play? We keep crediting our poor form to the other side being great, or to injuries, but the truth is, we're just nowhere near good enough.
Chris Wilder said the big thing about the Championship that helped him is that managers are too scared of losing. Please Lee, don't become one of them.
Chris Wilder said the big thing about the Championship that helped him is that managers are too scared of losing. Please Lee, don't become one of them.
Might be nice if we were a bit more scared of losing!
I think people aren't giving Stoke enough credit, you say I'm giving them too much credit. We'll have to agree to disagree.
And I'm not disagreeing that we are involved in the relegation mix (it's what we expected before the season started) but I
think we are far from doomed. I predict we'll end up close to 55 points
and safe by 5-10.
Look at some of the below comments from Swansea and Sheff Wed fans who recently lost to Stoke away... I wonder what the common denominator is.
"I'm sick of negative tactics, it's not what we were known for. We could
have played 'til midnight and not scored. Cooper looks pathetic on the
sidelines with his hands in his pockets."
"Tedious and toothless. I get the distinct impression that Cooper is clueless as to how to win games. We will never progress under this Manager."
"Stoke battled hard and got the rub we can't grumble at the result. We had some poor performances from back to front"
"Never got hold of the ball all match. Total lack of application from the start"
"Shocking performance and just about all players failing to meet the
level of quality they are capable of. Failing to challenge in duels,
going for second balls, marking a man, making a simple pass, working
your arse of to win back the ball if you lose it."
Apparently that's three fanbases on the trot that have lost to Stoke because their team is rubbish and not because Stoke are a good side. Hmmmm
Said it in the Preview... People need to take a look at O'Neill alone and his results BEFORE he became Stoke Manager...
Narrow defeats against Germany | Netherlands in the last few months when Northern Ireland potentially deserved something Topped a group to qualify for Euro 2016 (their first Major Tournament since 1986) which included Romania / Hungary and reached the last 16 in a Group that included Germany | Ukraine | Poland
Go back further and you'll find he took Shamrock Rovers into the Europa Group Stages for the first time in their history
My point in Michael O'Neill is a bloke who knows how to get his teams disciplined and use the ball sensibly
Felt it was an inspired choice by Stoke to go after him in the first place and wont be surprised if they're challenging at the right end next season with very little investment needed in their squad
Yes we didn't get going yesterday but even on reflection today I think we were made to look even more average than normal by a decent side who would be top six if O'Neill had been in charge since the summer.
Their home results since he took charge:
Stoke 2-1 Wigan
Stoke 1-2 Blackburn
Stoke 3-0 Luton
Stoke 0-0 Reading
Stoke 3-2 Sheff Wed
Stoke 0-0 Millwall
Stoke 2-0 Swansea
Stoke 3-1 Charlton
Four clean sheets in their last five before us suggests a team that is finding their groove under the new boss. They are well drilled and work hard, to go with the talent of Tom Ince, Nick Powell et al.
We were able to get the better of them early in the season because they couldn't stop letting in goals. It took them nine games to concede less than two in a game(!!!) They are a different animal now and as expected, ran out comfortable winners.
Yes we know Stoke have improved, you've made that point plenty of times. We were still appalling.
So Stoke being alright at home is an excuse for a terrible performance? I thought Bowyer got it massively wrong yesterday. Purrington isn’t quite good enough, Davis and Pratley in the same team looks a mistake and it didn’t help Green looked off the pace. Should have changed it at half time, oh and what was all the OB about? Huge overkill
So Stoke being alright at home is an excuse for a terrible performance? I thought Bowyer got it massively wrong yesterday. Purrington isn’t quite good enough, Davis and Pratley in the same team looks a mistake and it didn’t help Green looked off the pace. Should have changed it at half time, oh and what was all the OB about? Huge overkill
We've seen it from Charlton though... Sometimes one side can play at a tempo that the other just cant cope with from the off
If we see something similar against Nottingham Forest then I'll be concerned, Stoke though appears to be a one off compared to what we've seen in 2020
Yes we didn't get going yesterday but even on reflection today I think we were made to look even more average than normal by a decent side who would be top six if O'Neill had been in charge since the summer.
Their home results since he took charge:
Stoke 2-1 Wigan
Stoke 1-2 Blackburn
Stoke 3-0 Luton
Stoke 0-0 Reading
Stoke 3-2 Sheff Wed
Stoke 0-0 Millwall
Stoke 2-0 Swansea
Stoke 3-1 Charlton
Four clean sheets in their last five before us suggests a team that is finding their groove under the new boss. They are well drilled and work hard, to go with the talent of Tom Ince, Nick Powell et al.
We were able to get the better of them early in the season because they couldn't stop letting in goals. It took them nine games to concede less than two in a game(!!!) They are a different animal now and as expected, ran out comfortable winners.
Yes we know Stoke have improved, you've made that point plenty of times. We were still appalling.
I'm clearly fighting a losing battle based on the likes and LOLs that the responses are getting.
Funny thing is that I don't think we actually disagree that much regarding the performance. Did I think we played well? No. Did I think we were unlucky to lose? Absolutely not. Did I need to say that again after 50 other people have already said the same thing? Nah.
What frustrates me is post-match comments like "we were sh*t" or "Bowyer needs to take his hands out of his pockets and do something" without any nuance or taking a look at the bigger picture.
I come onto the post match thread trying to explain potential reasons for WHY we lost (earlier in the season it was injuries, yesterday it was Stoke having better players and better form) and people come at me like I'm making excuses. I'm not.
If you can find the root cause of your bad results then you can begin to do something about it. If you dismiss everything as sh*t and don't look for the causes, don't expect it to get any better.
Maybe I'll have to preface my future posts so people don't think I'm a happy clapper.
Yes we didn't get going yesterday but even on reflection today I think we were made to look even more average than normal by a decent side who would be top six if O'Neill had been in charge since the summer.
Their home results since he took charge:
Stoke 2-1 Wigan
Stoke 1-2 Blackburn
Stoke 3-0 Luton
Stoke 0-0 Reading
Stoke 3-2 Sheff Wed
Stoke 0-0 Millwall
Stoke 2-0 Swansea
Stoke 3-1 Charlton
Four clean sheets in their last five before us suggests a team that is finding their groove under the new boss. They are well drilled and work hard, to go with the talent of Tom Ince, Nick Powell et al.
We were able to get the better of them early in the season because they couldn't stop letting in goals. It took them nine games to concede less than two in a game(!!!) They are a different animal now and as expected, ran out comfortable winners.
Yes we know Stoke have improved, you've made that point plenty of times. We were still appalling.
I'm clearly fighting a losing battle based on the likes and LOLs that the responses are getting.
Funny thing is that I don't think we actually disagree that much regarding the performance. Did I think we played well? No. Did I think we were unlucky to lose? Absolutely not. Did I need to say that again after 50 other people have already said the same thing? Nah.
What frustrates me is post-match comments like "we were sh*t" or "Bowyer needs to take his hands out of his pockets and do something" without any nuance or taking a look at the bigger picture.
I come onto the post match thread trying to explain potential reasons for WHY we lost (earlier in the season it was injuries, yesterday it was Stoke having better players and better form) and people come at me like I'm making excuses. I'm not.
If you can find the root cause of your bad results then you can begin to do something about it. If you dismiss everything as sh*t and don't look for the causes, don't expect it to get any better.
Maybe I'll have to preface my future posts so people don't think I'm a happy clapper.
It's a bit of a cop out though just saying Stoke are a better team with better players. In football you have to try and find a way. There can only be one winner but you need to get a sense you were trying. We set up defensively and it didn't work. It was a massive injustice that we went in level at half time and that was the time to try something else. There was no evidence of us trying to change anything, even when we went behind again.
The only positive change that was made all game was Doughty for Purrington. Oztumer for Williams didn't change much. Why not change formation? Why not try to put some pressure on Stoke and take a few risks? I fully accept that it may not have made any difference, but you have to try something. I would be content if I thought we had tried to do something and we lost 4-1 but I didn't get any sense of it. How many times do you see a performance as poor as that and only two subs used? It felt like Bowyer was having a moody and was just pissed off with it to me.
What’s the excuse for the shit defending , can we still blame the youngsters in midfield or is the defence pretty pony hence it has more leaks than my house in this poxy storm .
2 wins in 19 league games are the facts , we are shocking and we won’t be able to rely on lucky wins like we got against Barnsley to get us out of it . Performances have to improve dramatically to start pulling off the results to drag ourselves away from trouble .
On reflection, the Stoke game is deeply worrying. I expect we all thought that once Taylor, Williams and Cullen were back that our results would improve. We scraped a win against Barnsley, the second bottom team and got outclassed by the fourth bottom team on Saturday. The transfer window weakened the side overall, as Gallagher was not replaced. But the worst thing of all is that Bowyer seems to have lost his mojo. Starting with 3 defensive midfielders on Saturday was a very bad sign for me. I wonder if 2 wins in 20 games has done for him, and maybe the squad as well. These next two games will show if there is any fight left. The main cause for optimism is that the returning players are not fully fit yet. Perhaps their increasing fitness will show over these next few games.
I wonder too. There were a few small things this season that made me think Bowyer was making a statement about how hard his job is, like not naming a full bench. You can always find a youngster to stick on the bench who would gain some experience. Not naming anybody is sending a message out about how impossible your job is that you just shouldn't do.
I felt there was a bit of that in Bowyer's approach yesterday. Not to start with - he clearly set out to frustrate them and whilst it didn't work, and I didn't think it would work, you have to respect it as a valid approach. But then when it was obvious it wasn't working, and not doing anything about it, I just can't get my head round that.
The Bowyer I have seen with the right mindset is formidable and the adaptability of his formations and positivity to get a win always shone through and I want to see that Bowyer again. It isn't about losing on Saturday but how we lost. I think that performance was bordering on the embarrassing. I am looking at it and seeing a manager sending a message to the world ' what can I do with the smallest budget in the league?'. I can't be sure that is the case, but I have it nagging away at me.
Hopefully we see no repeat of that. I know we will lose games, but I don't want to see us lose without a fight and I think that is a reasonable position.
Yes we didn't get going yesterday but even on reflection today I think we were made to look even more average than normal by a decent side who would be top six if O'Neill had been in charge since the summer.
Their home results since he took charge:
Stoke 2-1 Wigan
Stoke 1-2 Blackburn
Stoke 3-0 Luton
Stoke 0-0 Reading
Stoke 3-2 Sheff Wed
Stoke 0-0 Millwall
Stoke 2-0 Swansea
Stoke 3-1 Charlton
Four clean sheets in their last five before us suggests a team that is finding their groove under the new boss. They are well drilled and work hard, to go with the talent of Tom Ince, Nick Powell et al.
We were able to get the better of them early in the season because they couldn't stop letting in goals. It took them nine games to concede less than two in a game(!!!) They are a different animal now and as expected, ran out comfortable winners.
One result you have missed there is the match before our loss; Derby 4 - Stoke 0
There were some negative elements to Bowyer the player when he got frustrated. It is the reason so many were surprised how well he has done as a manager. I have lost count of the number of times I have told people he is totally different as a manager. Maybe there is still some of that in him though. Maybe he was so pissed off with the performance, he couldn't be arsed to try to do anything about it. Like I have said, no tactical change, two late subs and only two the whole game when he could have made three using the strongest bench we have had for a while. Something wasn't right!
I think think Bowyer’s team selection was set up for gaining a point. He will also be considering three games in seven days, two of which are away. I reckon he was looking for 5 points across the three games and hoped for a strong defensive performance for 60 minutes and then see what he could do. Trouble with that thinking is that it’s not a formation to chase a game once plan A has gone; he took a chance that backfired.
I expect a reaction against Forest and I think we will get one. A point would be acceptable if followed up with 3 on Saturday.
I think Bowyer’s team selection was set up for gaining a point. He will also be considering three games in seven days, two of which are away. I reckon he was looking for 5 points across the three games and hoped for a strong defensive performance for 60 minutes and then see what he could do. Trouble with that thinking is that it’s not a formation to chase a game once plan A has gone; he took a chance that backfired.
I expect a reaction against Forest and I think we will get one. A point would be acceptable if followed up with 3 on Saturday.
This, also he can't legislate for individual errors and people switching off at crucial moments in defence. Somehow we got ourselves back in the game at half time with a rare attack and no doubt they were told keep it tight for the next fifteen and let's see if we can nick another goal if not we'll take a point. That plan went tits up and with how we had performed in the previous 45 mins we were highly unlikely to get anything from the game and so it transpired.
Add to this as Forever Addicted has mentioned McGeady's withdrawal later last week meant a change in personnel, weakening the starting line up and certainly bench options to take the game to Stoke. Still this is Charlton and as I've said many times always be prepared to expect the unexpected with this club because we can't be as bad at Forest as Saturday can we? Whoever gets left out on Tuesday can have no complaints if they are dropped or 'rotated' whichever takes your fancy.
I wonder too. There were a few small things this season that made me think Bowyer was making a statement about how hard his job is, like not naming a full bench. You can always find a youngster to stick on the bench who would gain some experience. Not naming anybody is sending a message out about how impossible your job is that you just shouldn't do.
I felt there was a bit of that in Bowyer's approach yesterday. Not to start with - he clearly set out to frustrate them and whilst it didn't work, and I didn't think it would work, you have to respect it as a valid approach. But then when it was obvious it wasn't working, and not doing anything about it, I just can't get my head round that.
The Bowyer I have seen with the right mindset is formidable and the adaptability of his formations and positivity to get a win always shone through and I want to see that Bowyer again. It isn't about losing on Saturday but how we lost. I think that performance was bordering on the embarrassing. I am looking at it and seeing a manager sending a message to the world ' what can I do with the smallest budget in the league?'. I can't be sure that is the case, but I have it nagging away at me.
Hopefully we see no repeat of that. I know we will lose games, but I don't want to see us lose without a fight and I think that is a reasonable position.
That potential explanation of Bow's approach yesterday is rather concerning, @MuttleyCAFC.
Until the close season, there is nothing he can do to increase the current squad numerically, unless it's bringing in a non contracted player ( I think), so what's the point?
TBH, we've come to recognise that the gaffer doesn't have one iota of negativity in his make up so this mindset would indeed indicate that something, maybe out of his control, is seriously worrying him. Hopefully, it's nothing amiss in his personal life.
I'm remaining optimistic that this was a one off - that he could see nothing he had in his "locker" would change the game in our favour on Saturday when Stoke took the lead in the 2nd half. And decided to keep certain players fresh for Tuesday by making the subs. In essence, a kind of "it is what it is" and we'll regroup over the next couple of days with a different gameplan and possibly line up to face Forest.
However, as I always say, I know nothing......but I sincerely hope these concerns don't reappear.
Yes we didn't get going yesterday but even on reflection today I think we were made to look even more average than normal by a decent side who would be top six if O'Neill had been in charge since the summer.
Their home results since he took charge:
Stoke 2-1 Wigan
Stoke 1-2 Blackburn
Stoke 3-0 Luton
Stoke 0-0 Reading
Stoke 3-2 Sheff Wed
Stoke 0-0 Millwall
Stoke 2-0 Swansea
Stoke 3-1 Charlton
Four clean sheets in their last five before us suggests a team that is finding their groove under the new boss. They are well drilled and work hard, to go with the talent of Tom Ince, Nick Powell et al.
We were able to get the better of them early in the season because they couldn't stop letting in goals. It took them nine games to concede less than two in a game(!!!) They are a different animal now and as expected, ran out comfortable winners.
Yes we know Stoke have improved, you've made that point plenty of times. We were still appalling.
I'm clearly fighting a losing battle based on the likes and LOLs that the responses are getting.
Funny thing is that I don't think we actually disagree that much regarding the performance. Did I think we played well? No. Did I think we were unlucky to lose? Absolutely not. Did I need to say that again after 50 other people have already said the same thing? Nah.
What frustrates me is post-match comments like "we were sh*t" or "Bowyer needs to take his hands out of his pockets and do something" without any nuance or taking a look at the bigger picture.
I come onto the post match thread trying to explain potential reasons for WHY we lost (earlier in the season it was injuries, yesterday it was Stoke having better players and better form) and people come at me like I'm making excuses. I'm not.
If you can find the root cause of your bad results then you can begin to do something about it. If you dismiss everything as sh*t and don't look for the causes, don't expect it to get any better.
Maybe I'll have to preface my future posts so people don't think I'm a happy clapper.
It's a bit of a cop out though just saying Stoke are a better team with better players. In football you have to try and find a way. There can only be one winner but you need to get a sense you were trying. We set up defensively and it didn't work. It was a massive injustice that we went in level at half time and that was the time to try something else. There was no evidence of us trying to change anything, even when we went behind again.
The only positive change that was made all game was Doughty for Purrington. Oztumer for Williams didn't change much. Why not change formation? Why not try to put some pressure on Stoke and take a few risks? I fully accept that it may not have made any difference, but you have to try something. I would be content if I thought we had tried to do something and we lost 4-1 but I didn't get any sense of it. How many times do you see a performance as poor as that and only two subs used? It felt like Bowyer was having a moody and was just pissed off with it to me.
Yes, after a dismal first half I was expecting a change at half time, whether to make us more of an attacking threat or to make us look less vulnerable. Then when we went 2-1 down I was expecting a change, and it still didn't happen
To then make 2 subs when 3-1 down looked far too late, indeed Oztumer for Williams seem more like saving Jonny's legs than a serious attempt to get us back in the game.
Yes we didn't get going yesterday but even on reflection today I think we were made to look even more average than normal by a decent side who would be top six if O'Neill had been in charge since the summer.
Their home results since he took charge:
Stoke 2-1 Wigan
Stoke 1-2 Blackburn
Stoke 3-0 Luton
Stoke 0-0 Reading
Stoke 3-2 Sheff Wed
Stoke 0-0 Millwall
Stoke 2-0 Swansea
Stoke 3-1 Charlton
Four clean sheets in their last five before us suggests a team that is finding their groove under the new boss. They are well drilled and work hard, to go with the talent of Tom Ince, Nick Powell et al.
We were able to get the better of them early in the season because they couldn't stop letting in goals. It took them nine games to concede less than two in a game(!!!) They are a different animal now and as expected, ran out comfortable winners.
One result you have missed there is the match before our loss; Derby 4 - Stoke 0
Not a home result...
They can still be got at when they’re away from home but O’Neill has done a good job building a fortress at home where they are second in the form table.
I think the plan was probably to keep it level until 70 ish minutes (or down by one at worst) and try to nick something with a late goal. We conceded a third goal minutes before making those subs and that was all but game over.
We may not like it as fans but Bowyer needs points and will have had his reasons for setting up in such a way. I suspect due to being aware of the limitations of his squad in comparison to the opposition.
It won’t always pay off and yesterday was one of those occasions. If he keeps doing it and keeps getting nothing from it then I’ll start to question it.
I think the plan was probably to keep it level until 70 ish minutes (or down by one at worst) and try to nick something with a late goal. We conceded a third goal minutes before making those subs and that was all but game over.
We may not like it as fans but Bowyer needs points and will have had his reasons for setting up in such a way. I suspect due to being aware of the limitations of his squad in comparison to the opposition.
It won’t always pay off and yesterday was one of those occasions. If he keeps doing it and keeps getting nothing from it then I’ll start to question it.
I mentioned this in the pre-match thread as it was something I expected Bowyer to do. Very Curbishley like & doesnt generally work. You cant expect to sit back & defend for 70 mins & not be aniliated. I don't have any stats to hand but I'm willing to bet that not many teams lose after scoring 2 goals & likely to win a high proportion if they score 3. Set you stall out NOT to score & you are asking for trouble. Why not on Tuesday go all out to win the game from the off. Go ultra offensive & take Forest by surprise. People seem to think it's a "free hit" anyway & we are not likely to win....so nothing to lose going for it.
Maybe radical but trying to defend for 90 mins away from home hasnt got us anywhere this season so why not.
Stoke are in a false position in the league I didn’t expect them to be down there for so long - completely outplayed from start to finish and got what we deserved - nothing.
A 2k away following with quite a shunt of a journey followed by a sold out valley If we cant pick anything up out of these 2 then we are in trouble, fortunately we still have to play Wigan and Luton at home, our final game of the season Leeds away was hoping for them to have the autos wrapped up and roll over - but they are doing a bottle job as per.
Police Saturday was very ott certainly won’t be in a rush back to stoke - crap overpriced pub before hand and after - although the buses were v handy and quick.
Just looking at our remaining fixtures, league positions in brackets
Forest a ( 4th ) blackburn h ( 12th ) Luton h ( 24th ) Sheff weds a ( 11th) Huddersfield a ( 19th ) Middlesbrough h (18th ) Hull a ( 14th ) Qpr h ( 17th ) Cardiff a (8th ) Millwall h ( 10th ) Brentford a ( 5th ) Reading h ( 16th )
Birmingham a ( 15th ) Wigan h ( 22nd ) Leeds a ( 2nd )
we have to play a lot of the bottom half teams from law of averages we need 47.2 points to stay up so 15 points from the above set of fixtures.
Stoke are in a false position in the league I didn’t expect them to be down there for so long - completely outplayed from start to finish and got what we deserved - nothing.
A 2k away following with quite a shunt of a journey followed by a sold out valley If we cant pick anything up out of these 2 then we are in trouble, fortunately we still have to play Wigan and Luton at home, our final game of the season Leeds away was hoping for them to have the autos wrapped up and roll over - but they are doing a bottle job as per.
Police Saturday was very ott certainly won’t be in a rush back to stoke - crap overpriced pub before hand and after - although the buses were v handy and quick.
Just looking at our remaining fixtures, league positions in brackets
Forest a ( 4th ) blackburn h ( 12th ) Luton h ( 24th ) Sheff weds a ( 11th) Huddersfield a ( 19th ) Middlesbrough h (18th ) Hull a ( 14th ) Qpr h ( 17th ) Cardiff a (8th ) Millwall h ( 10th ) Brentford a ( 5th ) Reading h ( 16th )
Birmingham a ( 15th ) Wigan h ( 22nd ) Leeds a ( 2nd )
we have to play a lot of the bottom half teams from law of averages we need 47.2 points to stay up so 15 points from the above set of fixtures.
Comments
Burton stayed up in their first season, by the way.
You are giving Stoke far too much credit. They were good yesterday but we have won two in 20 (is it?) and god graced us againt Barnsley or else it would still be one win. We are horrible.
The hope is we are suddenly going to turn around such terrible form? How? Based on what? Our clean sheet record or our fabulous attacking play? We keep crediting our poor form to the other side being great, or to injuries, but the truth is, we're just nowhere near good enough.
We will never progress under this Manager."
Narrow defeats against Germany | Netherlands in the last few months when Northern Ireland potentially deserved something
Topped a group to qualify for Euro 2016 (their first Major Tournament since 1986) which included Romania / Hungary and reached the last 16 in a Group that included Germany | Ukraine | Poland
Go back further and you'll find he took Shamrock Rovers into the Europa Group Stages for the first time in their history
My point in Michael O'Neill is a bloke who knows how to get his teams disciplined and use the ball sensibly
Felt it was an inspired choice by Stoke to go after him in the first place and wont be surprised if they're challenging at the right end next season with very little investment needed in their squad
If we see something similar against Nottingham Forest then I'll be concerned, Stoke though appears to be a one off compared to what we've seen in 2020
Wonder if we can sign him up... Scratch that Stoke picked him up on a free.
The only positive change that was made all game was Doughty for Purrington. Oztumer for Williams didn't change much. Why not change formation? Why not try to put some pressure on Stoke and take a few risks? I fully accept that it may not have made any difference, but you have to try something. I would be content if I thought we had tried to do something and we lost 4-1 but I didn't get any sense of it. How many times do you see a performance as poor as that and only two subs used? It felt like Bowyer was having a moody and was just pissed off with it to me.
2 wins in 19 league games are the facts , we are shocking and we won’t be able to rely on lucky wins like we got against Barnsley to get us out of it .
Performances have to improve dramatically to start pulling off the results to drag ourselves away from trouble .
The transfer window weakened the side overall, as Gallagher was not replaced. But the worst thing of all is that Bowyer seems to have lost his mojo. Starting with 3 defensive midfielders on Saturday was a very bad sign for me. I wonder if 2 wins in 20 games has done for him, and maybe the squad as well.
These next two games will show if there is any fight left. The main cause for optimism is that the returning players are not fully fit yet. Perhaps their increasing fitness will show over these next few games.
I felt there was a bit of that in Bowyer's approach yesterday. Not to start with - he clearly set out to frustrate them and whilst it didn't work, and I didn't think it would work, you have to respect it as a valid approach. But then when it was obvious it wasn't working, and not doing anything about it, I just can't get my head round that.
The Bowyer I have seen with the right mindset is formidable and the adaptability of his formations and positivity to get a win always shone through and I want to see that Bowyer again. It isn't about losing on Saturday but how we lost. I think that performance was bordering on the embarrassing. I am looking at it and seeing a manager sending a message to the world ' what can I do with the smallest budget in the league?'. I can't be sure that is the case, but I have it nagging away at me.
Hopefully we see no repeat of that. I know we will lose games, but I don't want to see us lose without a fight and I think that is a reasonable position.
I expect a reaction against Forest and I think we will get one. A point would be acceptable if followed up with 3 on Saturday.
Add to this as Forever Addicted has mentioned McGeady's withdrawal later last week meant a change in personnel, weakening the starting line up and certainly bench options to take the game to Stoke. Still this is Charlton and as I've said many times always be prepared to expect the unexpected with this club because we can't be as bad at Forest as Saturday can we? Whoever gets left out on Tuesday can have no complaints if they are dropped or 'rotated' whichever takes your fancy.
Until the close season, there is nothing he can do to increase the current squad numerically, unless it's bringing in a non contracted player ( I think), so what's the point?
TBH, we've come to recognise that the gaffer doesn't have one iota of negativity in his make up so this mindset would indeed indicate that something, maybe out of his control, is seriously worrying him. Hopefully, it's nothing amiss in his personal life.
I'm remaining optimistic that this was a one off - that he could see nothing he had in his "locker" would change the game in our favour on Saturday when Stoke took the lead in the 2nd half. And decided to keep certain players fresh for Tuesday by making the subs. In essence, a kind of "it is what it is" and we'll regroup over the next couple of days with a different gameplan and possibly line up to face Forest.
However, as I always say, I know nothing......but I sincerely hope these concerns don't reappear.
To then make 2 subs when 3-1 down looked far too late, indeed Oztumer for Williams seem more like saving Jonny's legs than a serious attempt to get us back in the game.
They can still be got at when they’re away from home but O’Neill has done a good job building a fortress at home where they are second in the form table.
It won’t always pay off and yesterday was one of those occasions. If he keeps doing it and keeps getting nothing from it then I’ll start to question it.
Maybe radical but trying to defend for 90 mins away from home hasnt got us anywhere this season so why not.
Forest a ( 4th )
blackburn h ( 12th )
Luton h ( 24th )
Sheff weds a ( 11th)
Huddersfield a ( 19th )
Middlesbrough h (18th )
Hull a ( 14th )
Qpr h ( 17th )
Cardiff a (8th )
Millwall h ( 10th )
Brentford a ( 5th )
Reading h ( 16th )
Wigan h ( 22nd )
Leeds a ( 2nd )
we have to play a lot of the bottom half teams from law of averages we need 47.2 points to stay up so 15 points from the above set of fixtures.