We’ve chucked in a few performances like that this season. Wigan, Preston, Birmingham, Luton, Boro and now today. They’ve been mostly isolated but also against teams around us at the bottom. A slightly worrying trend given our upcoming fixtures.
I blame Bowyer today. From the first minute they looked to have a tactical edge - too much space when they had it and too easy to snuff us out when they didn’t. Bowyer never does it but Curbs would’ve just changed it to match them like for like. Bowyer didn’t and we never really got on top of them as a result. To then gift them that opening goal... well, we have to stop defending like that and very very soon.
No one scores more than a 6 today, they were all off it in one way or another.
Starting 11 made sense to me at the time, but now I’ve seen Davis play I can see he’s almost identical to Pratley. Has to be one or the other from now on.
Poor all round but a chance to correct it on Tuesday. Tough match but playing better teams seems to suit us.
Careful, someone's going to call you out for suggesting this and get a zillion likes
Most people on here called it early on that our midfield wasnt working and it didnt improve over 90mins. Dont get why no changes were made until the game was gone. However, Cullen and Williams got some more good match fitness today and we can only hope that over this next month they can get back to the form they were in before injured. If they dont, i fear we aint gonna pick up many points
Stoke were up for it straight from kick-off and never really took their foot off the gas. We couldn't match their intensity.
Wont surprise me if O'Neill demanded a response from that 4-0 defeat against Derby, combined with the fact they were below us and the home team
No wonder they shot out the blocks
Plus the fact they have some of the best home form in the league...
Poeple on here underestimated them because of their league position. It was never going to be an easy game.
I don't think it's people underestimating them or expecting us to turn up and walk all over them, just that a performance better than shit (apparently) would have been nice.
Bang in trouble. We put shifts in when the injury crisis was in full swing and got nothing. Performances have now dipped and the chances of getting anything are again remote. Hope it doesn't last. Still say we should have signed a defender.
1. Stoke are a good side, with some very good, physically strong players. They made us look poor. 2. We set up with three defensive midfielders, inviting Stoke to attack. 3. We played Purrington rather than Doughty, which for me is another defensive decision. 4. No Sarr, another negative signal. 5. As a result of 1-4 we couldn't keep hold of the ball for most of the match. Not sure what the possession stats were, but it felt like 40/60. [edit 45/55 apparently] 6. When Oztumer came on we started creating something in attacking areas. And Doughty's pace added a bit of a threat. 7. We urgently need to try different tactics away from home. We last won away in August, so whatever we're doing isn't working. 8. Stoke gave away 22 fouls. Shocking that none of them were booked. Five of ours were, through last ditch defending mainly. 9. At least Luton and Wigan lost. Huddersfield winning is a blow. Barnsley picked up a point.
Stoke were up for it straight from kick-off and never really took their foot off the gas. We couldn't match their intensity.
Wont surprise me if O'Neill demanded a response from that 4-0 defeat against Derby, combined with the fact they were below us and the home team
No wonder they shot out the blocks
Plus the fact they have some of the best home form in the league...
Poeple on here underestimated them because of their league position. It was never going to be an easy game.
I don't think it's people underestimating them or expecting us to turn up and walk all over them, just that a performance better than shit (apparently) would have been nice.
Our players are not as good as theirs and hard work alone can't beat talent that is also working hard. Stoke have the second best home form (behind Brentford) and best goal difference for a reason.
We were shit all game and only played two of our subs. And those two were played when we were 2 goals down! Can somebody explain what is going on please? Couldn't Bowyer be bothered to manage today?
Watching the replays 100% Matthews at fault for the first. He’s marking Maclean. As the ball comes in Maclean runs towards the near post while Matthews plants his feet and watch the ball fly over his head, jaw flapping like it’s a fly past from red arrows or something. Ball comes back across and Matthews is. nowhere near Maclean who had a tap in.
Stoke were up for it straight from kick-off and never really took their foot off the gas. We couldn't match their intensity.
Wont surprise me if O'Neill demanded a response from that 4-0 defeat against Derby, combined with the fact they were below us and the home team
No wonder they shot out the blocks
Plus the fact they have some of the best home form in the league...
Poeple on here underestimated them because of their league position. It was never going to be an easy game.
Callum I know you don't really 'do' negativity and so make an effort to try to to see the positive, but you need to realise that people aren't upset we lost to Stoke, they are upset that we didn't defend, didn't attack, didn't pass, didn't close or create spaces, didn't have any kind of discernible shape and barely even showed up. It is fine in these cases for people to complain.
Stoke were up for it straight from kick-off and never really took their foot off the gas. We couldn't match their intensity.
Wont surprise me if O'Neill demanded a response from that 4-0 defeat against Derby, combined with the fact they were below us and the home team
No wonder they shot out the blocks
Plus the fact they have some of the best home form in the league...
Poeple on here underestimated them because of their league position. It was never going to be an easy game.
I don't think it's people underestimating them or expecting us to turn up and walk all over them, just that a performance better than shit (apparently) would have been nice.
Our players are not as good as theirs and hard work alone can't beat talent that is also working hard. Stoke have the second best home form (behind Brentford) for a reason.
Exactly. But none of that means we had to play shit (apparently). It's possible to play well and lose I believe.
Most people on here called it early on that our midfield wasnt working and it didnt improve over 90mins. Dont get why no changes were made until the game was gone. However, Cullen and Williams got some more good match fitness today and we can only hope that over this next month they can get back to the form they were in before injured. If they dont, i fear we aint gonna pick up many points
The biggest challenge Williams has is just trying to stay fit!
Whilst I'm not using it as an excuse for today's inept performance and defeat, Williams was once again singled out, in a 'tag team' style, for foul after foul after foul. The ref was woeful, failing to show any yellow cards for the constant fouling on Williams.
If it's allowed to carry on unchecked, Williams will most certainly get injured again.
Second one I can’t tell if it’s offside, but if it isn’t it’s Matthews again who is too slow pushing out.
Third one Davis and/Pratley are too slow to support Purrington who, like so often happens to him, has to deal with two players on his own. It’s an easy cross for Stoke to put in and Pearce fails to cut off the angle to the near post while Lockyer allows his man to get in front of him.
Stoke were up for it straight from kick-off and never really took their foot off the gas. We couldn't match their intensity.
Wont surprise me if O'Neill demanded a response from that 4-0 defeat against Derby, combined with the fact they were below us and the home team
No wonder they shot out the blocks
Plus the fact they have some of the best home form in the league...
Poeple on here underestimated them because of their league position. It was never going to be an easy game.
Callum I know you don't really 'do' negativity and so make an effort to try to to see the positive, but you need to realise that people aren't upset we lost to Stoke, they are upset that we didn't defend, didn't attack, didn't pass, didn't close or create spaces, didn't have any kind of discernible shape and barely even showed up. It is fine in these cases for people to complain.
But it's my belief that we didn't play well largely because Stoke were good, too good.
Remember when we used to beat the likes of Arsenal, Chelsea etc and all the pundits would go on about how the losing team played poorly and never gave us any credit for playing well?
Most of these doom and gloom posts are guilty of exactly that. Stoke won because they played well, we lost because we didn't. It happens and the sky isn't falling.
We were shocking dont get me wrong. We did not deserve anything from that.
But.
Stoke are a good side in a false position.
They have players worth more than our entire team.
Some tough conditions up there.
Some shocking officiating.
The midfield was one a lot of people were saying they would play before the game but it clearly didnt work. Bow should have changed this sooner but options from the bench were limited. For me it was less about the midfield combination and more about the formation. We should have gone 4231 to match them up. Doughty or Ozzy on for Davis at 2-1 would have given us a chance.
Ozzy looked lively when he came on. Want him to start midweek. Taylor put in a shift but is better with someone playing off him as it allows him to try and drag a cb out of position. We actually did very well to keep Tyrese Campbell quiet. Hes a good striker but tried to make it a battle with Pearce and Pearce thrives in that kind of battle. It was the 3 playing off him that we just couldn't handle and they moved the ball well, switched well and always seemed to have a man up.
Plenty of lessons to learn from this and things to work on.
Not sure the diamond is gonna work without a Gallagher/Aribo player. Hoping Smith can be that player but early days. At home I defo think it's worth trying William's a bit deeper and McGeady ahead of him. Davis has an engine but hes not good enough on the ball to do that role. For me its 2 from Field/Prately/Cullen/Davis from now on.
Now we have McGeady/Green/Doughty who can play wide and Williams/Ozzy/Aneke for the 10 role I think we should do the 4231 for a while.
But at least try to change things surely. If you try to change things and it doesn't work, you have at least tried. You can see what you are doing isn't working so why keep doing it?
Stoke were up for it straight from kick-off and never really took their foot off the gas. We couldn't match their intensity.
Wont surprise me if O'Neill demanded a response from that 4-0 defeat against Derby, combined with the fact they were below us and the home team
No wonder they shot out the blocks
Plus the fact they have some of the best home form in the league...
Poeple on here underestimated them because of their league position. It was never going to be an easy game.
Callum I know you don't really 'do' negativity and so make an effort to try to to see the positive, but you need to realise that people aren't upset we lost to Stoke, they are upset that we didn't defend, didn't attack, didn't pass, didn't close or create spaces, didn't have any kind of discernible shape and barely even showed up. It is fine in these cases for people to complain.
But it's my belief that we didn't play well largely because Stoke were good, too good.
Remember when we used to beat the likes of Arsenal, Chelsea etc and all the pundits would go on about how the losing team played poorly and never gave us any credit for playing well?
Most of these doom and gloom posts are guilty of exactly that. Stoke won because they played well, we lost because we didn't. It happens and the sky isn't falling.
Stoke played quite well and have better players than us on paper and were at home. All fine. We made life far too easy for them though. Tactics in particular were all wrong today. I hope Bowyer owns it in his press conference because he got it wrong today and can’t hide behind injuries etc.
Was not expecting us to get a result today, but it's how poor we are in possession that really worries me. Neither Lockyer and Pearce are good enough to play the ball out from the back, and the moment we have the ball at the back we are automatically under loads of pressure.
Stoke were up for it straight from kick-off and never really took their foot off the gas. We couldn't match their intensity.
Wont surprise me if O'Neill demanded a response from that 4-0 defeat against Derby, combined with the fact they were below us and the home team
No wonder they shot out the blocks
Plus the fact they have some of the best home form in the league...
Poeple on here underestimated them because of their league position. It was never going to be an easy game.
Callum I know you don't really 'do' negativity and so make an effort to try to to see the positive, but you need to realise that people aren't upset we lost to Stoke, they are upset that we didn't defend, didn't attack, didn't pass, didn't close or create spaces, didn't have any kind of discernible shape and barely even showed up. It is fine in these cases for people to complain.
But it's my belief that we didn't play well largely because Stoke were good, too good.
Remember when we used to beat the likes of Arsenal, Chelsea etc and all the pundits would go on about how the losing team played poorly and never gave us any credit for playing well?
Most of these doom and gloom posts are guilty of exactly that. Stoke won because they played well.
There's not playing well and there's not playing at all. We set out with a midfield of three DMs. No attacking shape. No way of keeping the ball or moving into the final third. You can't credit Stoke for that.
Or not following a man at a set piece (again), or failing to pick out 5-yard passes, or to pass it forwards, or control the ball.
Our home form will save us but we have to at least try to get wins away from home. Too negative from Bowyer, was like we was expecting defeat before a ball was kicked. Defensive tactics and poor defending are not a good mix and it showed. When we play with no fear it seems to raise our confidence and ability to play good football. We didn’t do that today.
Comments
No wonder they shot out the blocks
Absolutely shite.
That's about it.
However, Cullen and Williams got some more good match fitness today and we can only hope that over this next month they can get back to the form they were in before injured. If they dont, i fear we aint gonna pick up many points
We put shifts in when the injury crisis was in full swing and got nothing.
Performances have now dipped and the chances of getting anything are again remote.
Hope it doesn't last.
Still say we should have signed a defender.
2. We set up with three defensive midfielders, inviting Stoke to attack.
3. We played Purrington rather than Doughty, which for me is another defensive decision.
4. No Sarr, another negative signal.
5. As a result of 1-4 we couldn't keep hold of the ball for most of the match. Not sure what the possession stats were, but it felt like 40/60. [edit 45/55 apparently]
6. When Oztumer came on we started creating something in attacking areas. And Doughty's pace added a bit of a threat.
7. We urgently need to try different tactics away from home. We last won away in August, so whatever we're doing isn't working.
8. Stoke gave away 22 fouls. Shocking that none of them were booked. Five of ours were, through last ditch defending mainly.
9. At least Luton and Wigan lost. Huddersfield winning is a blow. Barnsley picked up a point.
Oh
Whilst I'm not using it as an excuse for today's inept performance and defeat, Williams was once again singled out, in a 'tag team' style, for foul after foul after foul. The ref was woeful, failing to show any yellow cards for the constant fouling on Williams.
If it's allowed to carry on unchecked, Williams will most certainly get injured again.
Third one Davis and/Pratley are too slow to support Purrington who, like so often happens to him, has to deal with two players on his own. It’s an easy cross for Stoke to put in and Pearce fails to cut off the angle to the near post while Lockyer allows his man to get in front of him.
But.
Stoke are a good side in a false position.
They have players worth more than our entire team.
Some tough conditions up there.
Some shocking officiating.
The midfield was one a lot of people were saying they would play before the game but it clearly didnt work. Bow should have changed this sooner but options from the bench were limited. For me it was less about the midfield combination and more about the formation. We should have gone 4231 to match them up. Doughty or Ozzy on for Davis at 2-1 would have given us a chance.
Ozzy looked lively when he came on. Want him to start midweek. Taylor put in a shift but is better with someone playing off him as it allows him to try and drag a cb out of position. We actually did very well to keep Tyrese Campbell quiet. Hes a good striker but tried to make it a battle with Pearce and Pearce thrives in that kind of battle. It was the 3 playing off him that we just couldn't handle and they moved the ball well, switched well and always seemed to have a man up.
Plenty of lessons to learn from this and things to work on.
Not sure the diamond is gonna work without a Gallagher/Aribo player. Hoping Smith can be that player but early days. At home I defo think it's worth trying William's a bit deeper and McGeady ahead of him. Davis has an engine but hes not good enough on the ball to do that role. For me its 2 from Field/Prately/Cullen/Davis from now on.
Now we have McGeady/Green/Doughty who can play wide and Williams/Ozzy/Aneke for the 10 role I think we should do the 4231 for a while.
Ohh well. We go again on tuesday.
Or not following a man at a set piece (again), or failing to pick out 5-yard passes, or to pass it forwards, or control the ball.