That wasn’t good enough whatever way you look at it. Poor defending, didn’t win the ball often enough, didn’t keep possession and didn’t create enough chances. Stoke did everything better.
The aim is the same as it was before the game and would have still been the same even had we won. We need around 17 points from the final 15 games.
As said Cullen, Davis and Pratley are all too similar. I don’t see how we can play them together again. Only one game but before I had seen Davis for us I said he gave us an alternative to Pratley. Surprised how long it took Bowyer to change it, before we scored I was expecting a sub at half time and a change in formation.
Today perhaps showed why Bowyer has often gone for Sarr over Pearce, he’s much better with the ball and that makes a difference in how well we keep possession and create chances. I expect he’ll start on Tuesday.
We’ve not yet seen McGeady and Smith, we need them to both make a big impact.
Stoke were up for it straight from kick-off and never really took their foot off the gas. We couldn't match their intensity.
Wont surprise me if O'Neill demanded a response from that 4-0 defeat against Derby, combined with the fact they were below us and the home team
No wonder they shot out the blocks
Plus the fact they have some of the best home form in the league...
Poeple on here underestimated them because of their league position. It was never going to be an easy game.
Callum I know you don't really 'do' negativity and so make an effort to try to to see the positive, but you need to realise that people aren't upset we lost to Stoke, they are upset that we didn't defend, didn't attack, didn't pass, didn't close or create spaces, didn't have any kind of discernible shape and barely even showed up. It is fine in these cases for people to complain.
But it's my belief that we didn't play well largely because Stoke were good, too good.
Remember when we used to beat the likes of Arsenal, Chelsea etc and all the pundits would go on about how the losing team played poorly and never gave us any credit for playing well?
Most of these doom and gloom posts are guilty of exactly that. Stoke won because they played well.
There's not playing well and there's not playing at all. We set out with a midfield of three DMs. No attacking shape. No way of keeping the ball or moving into the final third. You can't credit Stoke for that.
Or not following a man at a set piece (again), or failing to pick out 5-yard passes, or to pass it forwards, or control the ball.
The three DMs looks like a bad call after the fact. I'm not sure I want to see Pratley and Davis playing together again, they are too similar.
The second point is purely down to the squad not being good enough. These players are struggling with the step up from League One which we all expected coming into the season.
At the start of the season our previous owner gave us by far and away the lowest budget in the division.
In January our 2-5 year PL ambition new owners opened up the purse strings by losing the wages of Gallagher, Kayal, Leko and Ledley and getting a sell on from Fosu and replacing with the wages of Greene, Smith, Davis and McGeady. I have absolutely no doubt our budget has not changed and we remain with by far and away the lowest budget in this division.
Despite occasional baffling decisions Bowyer has done a wonderful job keeping us out of the bottom 3 so far and competitive in every game.
Losing Gallagher and Leko stripped so much attacking impetus and goals from the team and Matt Southalls Super duper deal phone failed to replace them.
Very poor from start to finish, all over the pitch. The tactic of playing Williams and Green wide and having three very similar players (Pratley, Cullen and Davis) looking to break up the Stoke play and spring forward failed abjectly. And Lee Bowyer was very slow to try to put things right. Stoke looked a league above us and could/should have won by a bigger margin. Notable exceptions to a dismal afternoon:
Tom Lockyer - who had a colossal game. If it wasn’t for him we would have suffered a much heavier defeat.
David Davis - showed a lot of promise. Did more than most to break up the fluid Stoke play.
Alfie Doughty - had a relatively brief cameo but showed he was probably worthy of starting.
We scored a good goal, and came close through Lyle’s shot very late in the game but apart from that there was nothing to reward the brilliant travelling fans.
At the start of the season our previous owner gave us by far and away the lowest budget in the division.
In January our 2-5 year PL ambition new owners opened up the purse strings by losing the wages of Gallagher, Kayal, Leko and Ledley and getting a sell on from Fosu and replacing with the wages of Greene, Smith, Davis and McGeady. I have absolutely no doubt our budget has not changed and we remain with by far and away the lowest budget in this division.
Despite occasional baffling decisions Bowyer has done a wonderful job keeping us out of the bottom 3 so far and competitive in every game.
Losing Gallagher and Leko stripped so much attacking impetus and goals from the team and Matt Southall a Super duper deal phone failed to replace them.
Frustrating day, on to the next game.
Erm. Though they have different strengths and weaknesses I would say that overall Andre Green is probably a better player than Leko.
I miss Gallagher though. Would have loved his energy in that midfield today.
Stoke were up for it straight from kick-off and never really took their foot off the gas. We couldn't match their intensity.
Wont surprise me if O'Neill demanded a response from that 4-0 defeat against Derby, combined with the fact they were below us and the home team
No wonder they shot out the blocks
Plus the fact they have some of the best home form in the league...
Poeple on here underestimated them because of their league position. It was never going to be an easy game.
Callum I know you don't really 'do' negativity and so make an effort to try to to see the positive, but you need to realise that people aren't upset we lost to Stoke, they are upset that we didn't defend, didn't attack, didn't pass, didn't close or create spaces, didn't have any kind of discernible shape and barely even showed up. It is fine in these cases for people to complain.
But it's my belief that we didn't play well largely because Stoke were good, too good.
Remember when we used to beat the likes of Arsenal, Chelsea etc and all the pundits would go on about how the losing team played poorly and never gave us any credit for playing well?
Most of these doom and gloom posts are guilty of exactly that. Stoke won because they played well.
There's not playing well and there's not playing at all. We set out with a midfield of three DMs. No attacking shape. No way of keeping the ball or moving into the final third. You can't credit Stoke for that.
Or not following a man at a set piece (again), or failing to pick out 5-yard passes, or to pass it forwards, or control the ball.
The three DMs looks like a bad call after the fact. I'm not sure I want to see Pratley and Davis playing together again, they are too similar.
The second point is purely down to the squad not being good enough. These players are struggling with the step up from League One which we all expected coming into the season.
Yes. Agree. Not good enough. Stoke have nothing to do with that.
As I said on the match thread, the most embarrassing part was our official Twitter feed AND livestream commentators braying on about a wrongly-awarded throw 'in the build-up' to their 3rd goal.
Except, we won the ball from that throw, Cullen played a hopeless ball straight to their keeper, and they scored from that.
I get the bunker mentality but we can't go blaming everyone else for our own inadequacy. I sincerely hope LB didn't refer to that throw in the post-match interview (obviously the offside was a lot more contentious!)
At the start of the season our previous owner gave us by far and away the lowest budget in the division.
In January our 2-5 year PL ambition new owners opened up the purse strings by losing the wages of Gallagher, Kayal, Leko and Ledley and getting a sell on from Fosu and replacing with the wages of Greene, Smith, Davis and McGeady. I have absolutely no doubt our budget has not changed and we remain with by far and away the lowest budget in this division.
Despite occasional baffling decisions Bowyer has done a wonderful job keeping us out of the bottom 3 so far and competitive in every game.
Losing Gallagher and Leko stripped so much attacking impetus and goals from the team and Matt Southall a Super duper deal phone failed to replace them.
Frustrating day, on to the next game.
Erm. Though they have different strengths and weaknesses I would say that overall Andre Green is probably a better player than Leko.
I miss Gallagher though. Would have loved his energy in that midfield today.
I think Green showed today that he's technically a better player again, but Leko was much more dynamic. Leko moved us up the pitch a lot with his pace and ability to beat a man. We won a lot of corners etc from his one man forays onto long balls.
I think they could have even played together. I don't think you can argue he's a notable step up from Leko, which combined with the loss of Gallagher has fucked us.
Stoke were up for it straight from kick-off and never really took their foot off the gas. We couldn't match their intensity.
Wont surprise me if O'Neill demanded a response from that 4-0 defeat against Derby, combined with the fact they were below us and the home team
No wonder they shot out the blocks
Plus the fact they have some of the best home form in the league...
Poeple on here underestimated them because of their league position. It was never going to be an easy game.
Callum I know you don't really 'do' negativity and so make an effort to try to to see the positive, but you need to realise that people aren't upset we lost to Stoke, they are upset that we didn't defend, didn't attack, didn't pass, didn't close or create spaces, didn't have any kind of discernible shape and barely even showed up. It is fine in these cases for people to complain.
But it's my belief that we didn't play well largely because Stoke were good, too good.
Remember when we used to beat the likes of Arsenal, Chelsea etc and all the pundits would go on about how the losing team played poorly and never gave us any credit for playing well?
Most of these doom and gloom posts are guilty of exactly that. Stoke won because they played well.
There's not playing well and there's not playing at all. We set out with a midfield of three DMs. No attacking shape. No way of keeping the ball or moving into the final third. You can't credit Stoke for that.
Or not following a man at a set piece (again), or failing to pick out 5-yard passes, or to pass it forwards, or control the ball.
The three DMs looks like a bad call after the fact. I'm not sure I want to see Pratley and Davis playing together again, they are too similar.
The second point is purely down to the squad not being good enough. These players are struggling with the step up from League One which we all expected coming into the season.
Yes. Agree. Not good enough. Stoke have nothing to do with that.
Not good enough talent wise to compete with Stoke's players who are good enough.
My exasperation comes from people being aware of this stuff but still going off on one when it happens. If you know we don't have quality players, why such a reaction when those players perform to expectation?
Trust me, there are plenty of Charlton teams that I've had a go at over the last 10-15 years but I can't have a go at players that I know are trying their hardest for the shirt. That's not what I want to put my energy into.
Stoke were up for it straight from kick-off and never really took their foot off the gas. We couldn't match their intensity.
Wont surprise me if O'Neill demanded a response from that 4-0 defeat against Derby, combined with the fact they were below us and the home team
No wonder they shot out the blocks
Not shit sherlock & I said as much in the pre-match thread yesterday. Anyone who knows anything about football knows what the home team were likely to do....and again I said on the match thread at 2.30 when I saw the team that we were too defensive. I would love for fucking once in my life to attack a team from the off.
Also pissed off to be proved right again. No strikers signed in the January window so we have no attacking threat apart from Taylor & certainly nothing to bring on from off the bench. And just like last month when the soothsayers were saying "it will be alright when Williams, Cullen & Taylor are back" we are now pinning our survival hopes on a lad who's played just half a season in this League & will need 2 or 3 games just to be match fit again. Bonne will not be the answer I'm afraid. Wd needed a bring in a quality striker & we didnt.
Gave Stoke far too much respect from the start, just sat off and invited pressure. We need to press high and close down quickly, make it tough for opponents to get going. None of that happened today and we got what we deserved.
Watching the replays 100% Matthews at fault for the first. He’s marking Maclean. As the ball comes in Maclean runs towards the near post while Matthews plants his feet and watch the ball fly over his head, jaw flapping like it’s a fly past from red arrows or something. Ball comes back across and Matthews is. nowhere near Maclean who had a tap in.
If Lyle had done his defensive duties and marked Powell properly from the free kick it would never have got to Maclean.
A defeat against a team in form at home. Sounds like a horrible display but that happens. I still feel our home form will see us through: Wigan Boro Luton Reading QPR Blackburn are all perfectly winnable as are these away games: Hull Huddersfield Sheff Weds
We may pick up a surprise result along the way. I think Luton and Barnsley are gone and others around us will have a bad run or two.
Today is our joint worst defeat of the season, but something must be done about our defensive displays. Needing to score 2 to get a point most games is not a good place to be in.
I have faith in Bowyer and his ability to keep us up, which is all we were hoping for at the start of the season. Our opening run gave us some points credit and some misguided hope.
Sometimes teams play shit. We did today and I’m sure it will be better on Tuesday and next Saturday.
Our home form will have to see us through because our away form is absolutely shocking. 3 points from our last 12 away games!!
I think we will need to win at least 5 of our last 15 games. If we do that, then Wigan need to win 7 from 15 because their goal difference is worse than ours.
Very poor from start to finish, all over the pitch. The tactic of playing Williams and Green wide and having three very similar players (Pratley, Cullen and Davis) looking to break up the Stoke play and spring forward failed abjectly. And Lee Bowyer was very slow to try to put things right. Stoke looked a league above us and could/should have won by a bigger margin. Notable exceptions to a dismal afternoon:
Tom Lockyer - who had a colossal game. If it wasn’t for him we would have suffered a much heavier defeat.
David Davis - showed a lot of promise. Did more than most to break up the fluid Stoke play.
Alfie Doughty - had a relatively brief cameo but showed he was probably worthy of starting.
We scored a good goal, and came close through Lyle’s shot very late in the game but apart from that there was nothing to reward the brilliant travelling fans.
Davis was woeful i thought!
I think that is harsh. He was making his debut with new teammates in a match where we were being outplayed all over the pitch. He got his tackles in, broke up play better than Cullen for sure and his passing was pretty decent. Not great, I agree, but some promising signs imo.
Stoke were up for it straight from kick-off and never really took their foot off the gas. We couldn't match their intensity.
Wont surprise me if O'Neill demanded a response from that 4-0 defeat against Derby, combined with the fact they were below us and the home team
No wonder they shot out the blocks
Plus the fact they have some of the best home form in the league...
Poeple on here underestimated them because of their league position. It was never going to be an easy game.
Callum I know you don't really 'do' negativity and so make an effort to try to to see the positive, but you need to realise that people aren't upset we lost to Stoke, they are upset that we didn't defend, didn't attack, didn't pass, didn't close or create spaces, didn't have any kind of discernible shape and barely even showed up. It is fine in these cases for people to complain.
But it's my belief that we didn't play well largely because Stoke were good, too good.
Remember when we used to beat the likes of Arsenal, Chelsea etc and all the pundits would go on about how the losing team played poorly and never gave us any credit for playing well?
Most of these doom and gloom posts are guilty of exactly that. Stoke won because they played well.
There's not playing well and there's not playing at all. We set out with a midfield of three DMs. No attacking shape. No way of keeping the ball or moving into the final third. You can't credit Stoke for that.
Or not following a man at a set piece (again), or failing to pick out 5-yard passes, or to pass it forwards, or control the ball.
The three DMs looks like a bad call after the fact. I'm not sure I want to see Pratley and Davis playing together again, they are too similar.
The second point is purely down to the squad not being good enough. These players are struggling with the step up from League One which we all expected coming into the season.
Yes. Agree. Not good enough. Stoke have nothing to do with that.
Not good enough talent wise to compete with Stoke's players who are good enough.
My exasperation comes from people being aware of this stuff but still going off on one when it happens. If you know we don't have quality players, why such a reaction when those players perform to expectation?
Trust me, there are plenty of Charlton teams that I've had a go at over the last 10-15 years but I can't have a go at players that I know are trying their hardest for the shirt. That's not what I want to put my energy into.
Many people on this board think we'd be mid table or better if we had a fully fit squad all season. The majority of people even think we are good at defending. My exasperation comes from people not realising how bad and in danger we are.
I highly doubt you have ever 'had a go' at a Charlton team... Or if you did, it probably consisted of you tutting at a bad bit of play, shaking your head, then immediately feeling so guilty so you jumped into a large rendition of "RED ARRMMYY."
That wasn’t good enough whatever way you look at it. Poor defending, didn’t win the ball often enough, didn’t keep possession and didn’t create enough chances. Stoke did everything better.
The aim is the same as it was before the game and would have still been the same even had we won. We need around 17 points from the final 15 games.
As said Cullen, Davis and Pratley are all too similar. I don’t see how we can play them together again. Only one game but before I had seen Davis for us I said he gave us an alternative to Pratley. Surprised how long it took Bowyer to change it, before we scored I was expecting a sub at half time and a change in formation.
Today perhaps showed why Bowyer has often gone for Sarr over Pearce, he’s much better with the ball and that makes a difference in how well we keep possession and create chances. I expect he’ll start on Tuesday.
We’ve not yet seen McGeady and Smith, we need them to both make a big impact.
I think Bowyer expected, or perhaps wanted to make it, a battle today. I think the plan was pack the team with fighters, hence Pearce, Pratley and Davis, Purrington. I think the hope was they would disrupt, unsettle and frustrate Stoke and then Williams, Green and a Taylor would manage to fashion one golden chance. It wasn't really working anyway, but it all fell apart with another calamitous goal against from the set piece. Like you, I was surprised that Bowyer didn’t do more to try and change it up.
Stoke were up for it straight from kick-off and never really took their foot off the gas. We couldn't match their intensity.
Wont surprise me if O'Neill demanded a response from that 4-0 defeat against Derby, combined with the fact they were below us and the home team
No wonder they shot out the blocks
Plus the fact they have some of the best home form in the league...
Poeple on here underestimated them because of their league position. It was never going to be an easy game.
Callum I know you don't really 'do' negativity and so make an effort to try to to see the positive, but you need to realise that people aren't upset we lost to Stoke, they are upset that we didn't defend, didn't attack, didn't pass, didn't close or create spaces, didn't have any kind of discernible shape and barely even showed up. It is fine in these cases for people to complain.
But it's my belief that we didn't play well largely because Stoke were good, too good.
Remember when we used to beat the likes of Arsenal, Chelsea etc and all the pundits would go on about how the losing team played poorly and never gave us any credit for playing well?
Most of these doom and gloom posts are guilty of exactly that. Stoke won because they played well.
There's not playing well and there's not playing at all. We set out with a midfield of three DMs. No attacking shape. No way of keeping the ball or moving into the final third. You can't credit Stoke for that.
Or not following a man at a set piece (again), or failing to pick out 5-yard passes, or to pass it forwards, or control the ball.
The three DMs looks like a bad call after the fact. I'm not sure I want to see Pratley and Davis playing together again, they are too similar.
The second point is purely down to the squad not being good enough. These players are struggling with the step up from League One which we all expected coming into the season.
Yes. Agree. Not good enough. Stoke have nothing to do with that.
Not good enough talent wise to compete with Stoke's players who are good enough.
My exasperation comes from people being aware of this stuff but still going off on one when it happens. If you know we don't have quality players, why such a reaction when those players perform to expectation?
Trust me, there are plenty of Charlton teams that I've had a go at over the last 10-15 years but I can't have a go at players that I know are trying their hardest for the shirt. That's not what I want to put my energy into.
Many people on this board think we'd be mid table or better if we had a fully fit squad all season. The majority of people even think we are good at defending. My exasperation comes from people not realising how bad and in danger we are.
I highly doubt you have ever 'had a go' at a Charlton team... Or if you did, it probably consisted of you tutting at a bad bit of play, shaking your head, then immediately feeling so guilty so you jumped into a large rendition of "RED ARRMMYY."
Haha.
Over the years, I've had plenty to say about Pardew, Peeters, Luzon, Fraeye, Russell Slade, Karl Robinson...
The names I've omitted from that tells you who I think did well with the sh*t hand they were dealt. :-)
At the start of the season our previous owner gave us by far and away the lowest budget in the division.
In January our 2-5 year PL ambition new owners opened up the purse strings by losing the wages of Gallagher, Kayal, Leko and Ledley and getting a sell on from Fosu and replacing with the wages of Greene, Smith, Davis and McGeady. I have absolutely no doubt our budget has not changed and we remain with by far and away the lowest budget in this division.
Despite occasional baffling decisions Bowyer has done a wonderful job keeping us out of the bottom 3 so far and competitive in every game.
Losing Gallagher and Leko stripped so much attacking impetus and goals from the team and Matt Southall a Super duper deal phone failed to replace them.
Frustrating day, on to the next game.
Erm. Though they have different strengths and weaknesses I would say that overall Andre Green is probably a better player than Leko.
I miss Gallagher though. Would have loved his energy in that midfield today.
Not on today's showing, Green was absolutely dreadful.
Comments
The aim is the same as it was before the game and would have still been the same even had we won. We need around 17 points from the final 15 games.
Today perhaps showed why Bowyer has often gone for Sarr over Pearce, he’s much better with the ball and that makes a difference in how well we keep possession and create chances. I expect he’ll start on Tuesday.
In January our 2-5 year PL ambition new owners opened up the purse strings by losing the wages of Gallagher, Kayal, Leko and Ledley and getting a sell on from Fosu and replacing with the wages of Greene, Smith, Davis and McGeady. I have absolutely no doubt our budget has not changed and we remain with by far and away the lowest budget in this division.
Despite occasional baffling decisions Bowyer has done a wonderful job keeping us out of the bottom 3 so far and competitive in every game.
Losing Gallagher and Leko stripped so much attacking impetus and goals from the team and Matt Southalls Super duper deal phone failed to replace them.
Frustrating day, on to the next game.
Surely it can't be that hard to come out after half time and start concentrating straight away?
I miss Gallagher though. Would have loved his energy in that midfield today.
https://www.londonnewsonline.co.uk/charlton-boss-lee-bowyer-extremely-underwhelmed-by-display-during-defeat-at-stoke/
Except, we won the ball from that throw, Cullen played a hopeless ball straight to their keeper, and they scored from that.
I get the bunker mentality but we can't go blaming everyone else for our own inadequacy. I sincerely hope LB didn't refer to that throw in the post-match interview (obviously the offside was a lot more contentious!)
I think Green showed today that he's technically a better player again, but Leko was much more dynamic. Leko moved us up the pitch a lot with his pace and ability to beat a man. We won a lot of corners etc from his one man forays onto long balls.
I think they could have even played together. I don't think you can argue he's a notable step up from Leko, which combined with the loss of Gallagher has fucked us.
Also pissed off to be proved right again. No strikers signed in the January window so we have no attacking threat apart from Taylor & certainly nothing to bring on from off the bench. And just like last month when the soothsayers were saying "it will be alright when Williams, Cullen & Taylor are back" we are now pinning our survival hopes on a lad who's played just half a season in this League & will need 2 or 3 games just to be match fit again. Bonne will not be the answer I'm afraid. Wd needed a bring in a quality striker & we didnt.
See you all at Accrington next season.
I think we will need to win at least 5 of our last 15 games. If we do that, then Wigan need to win 7 from 15 because their goal difference is worse than ours.
I highly doubt you have ever 'had a go' at a Charlton team...