ESI 1 v ESI 2 - Initial Hearing 01-02/09/2020, Court of Appeal 17/09/2020 (p127)
Comments
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It’s bloody brilliant.
What a bunch of supporters this club has.
I’m overwhelmed by all this tbh.
A remarkable achievement.
Hopefully onwards and upwards now.4 -
Chaisty had that grapevinesque quality with his reluctance to over indulge with words , short and to the point21
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A few hours ago, few people had ever heard of Lauren Kreamer. Now she will go down as one of the most important people in the survival of the club with the likes of Dodger, NLA etc4
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You may not have noticed that early in the thread, when Lauren’s name was announced as defence counsel, my jaw hit the floor and landed next to yours!AFKABartram said:@PragueAddick out of interest, did any of the painstaking dossier work on Farnell & co find it’s way into Kreamer’s teams preparations for this?
Because if so, there are many many fans who should feel proud of the part they’ve played in this.
But so many people have stepped up, and so many people have been connected behind the scenes thanks to Charlton Life. When will arrogant politicians, apparatchiks, and greedy lowlife ever learn that we are not “just a bunch of football fans”?38 -
The sun is shining in Eynsford this morning and I am feeling fine! Thank you again, Lauren!
I still can't get over the emotional rollercoaster of Judge Pearce's summation, so how people like Lauren do this every day, beats me.
Like many, I feel that Nimer and Southall don't deserve a penny from this great club and fans, but if it rids us of them all, so be it. Farnell, Elliot, and all the shady characters lurking around them will be licking their wounds this morning.
'Woke up this morning feeling fine...'6 -
Her reply to Southall after his threat of litigation singed my fingers.6
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Nothing more than intuition and feeling. Personal feeling that I'm not attempting to pass onto others.Cafc43v3r said:
Do you know who the "consortium from Turkey" are? If not how do you know they are dodgy?mendonca said:
...and that they may still sell it onto a dodgy consortium from Turkey. Hence why I'm not focusing on the potential negative outcomes just yet!AddicksAddict said:Amid all the celebrations we should remember this has cleared the way for Nimer and Mouthall to walk away with a possibly substantial reward for doing feck all to help our club.
Six weeks ago no one would have celebrated a court ruling that allowed Southall to walk away with money, no one had heard of TS, it was Barclay or bust in a lot of people's eyes.0 -
I think we can take quite a lot from the Judge's comments. Ultimately, he made the decision/verdict. I think his reference to the 200 fans participating means they may have helped too. He would have been aware that not one was on the side of ESI2 which suggested the outcome was pretty urgent for the club.2
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What a great result, especially as the judicial tide appeared to be flowing against us until the very last knockings. I listened by phone on a weak stream and was, fittingly, just about to enter a pub to meet some Charlton supporting mates up town when the Judge delivered the denouement.
First and foremost, congratulations to Lauren, who did a sterling job when pitted against a vastly experienced QC, who took silk nearly 20 year ago and who sits as a Deputy High Court Judge.
Judge Pearce accepted that Elliot’s company satisfied the first two limbs of the test, including that damages would not be an adequate remedy if an injunction was denied. The latter finding seemed soft to me, given that any damages claim could be founded upon (1) any sale price subsequently paid for the club and (2) expenditure incurred during the last three or four months in terms of meeting any shortfall in wages etc. Having largely accepted the thrust of practically all the Claimant’s submissions, the Judge then turned the application on its head deep into stoppage time by giving full and proper weight to the very serious risks facing the club and the bigger picture, including its outstanding community work. Articles from the Supporters Trust, in particular, were exhibited to Mihail’s statement and they clearly helped to get the ball over the line, so great work from the authors and the Trust generally.
There was a lot of focus during the hearing on the serious shortcomings in Mihail’s statement. It clearly had some major omissions and one highly significant error which undermined the credibility of his evidence generally. All of this served to put Panoramic on the back foot and I thought it was skilfully exploited by Elliot’s QC. Perhaps none of it is surprising, given the shambolic way in which ESI has conducted its affairs from outset and Lauren was, as a result, dealt a very difficult hand. I don’t know who her instructing solicitors were or how long they have been involved but can you imagine trying to obtain instructions from Nimer and his associates ? Part of the problem in trying to construct a coherent narrative around the events in question is a suspicion that the true motivation for the £1 sale/conditional sale to Elliot’s company is a story that may never be told.
I think an application for permission to appeal may well be made to Judge Pearce this afternoon, as Elliot may feel there’s not much to be lost in having a go. His real objective (far from the “prestige” of owning Charlton) is to somehow get his nose into the trough or, as his QC rather quaintly put it, “be part of the process” (or words to that effect). Elliot will try and keep the issues alive if he can for tactical reasons. Should Judge Pearce refuse leave, permission can be sought from the Court of Appeal, who will determine the application on paper without an oral hearing, save where the judge considering the application directs otherwise (which is unlikely, especially given the pressure on court time).
The difficulty which Elliot faces is that the ground upon which the application for an injunction failed - the balance of convenience - is very much a matter of impression for a Judge. Having carefully reviewed the evidence and listened to over three hours of submissions, an appeal court is likely to be reluctant to overturn the conclusion which he has reached. On that basis, an appeal is unlikely to have a real prospect of success and nor is there is any other compelling reason for it to be heard.
I have real doubts as to whether Elliot’s and Panoramic’s dispute will ever reach a trial - speedy to otherwise - although it would be a lot of fun to watch. Apart from the costs involved and witnesses like Elliot and Farnell being subjected to the purifying ordeal of cross-examination, the chances of ever enforcing a judgment against Panoramic in the UAE are remote; that is especially so, given that its only assets are its shares in ESI, which it will hopefully now be selling in short order.
We all know that we have a little further to go on the road to salvation but this is undoubtedly a huge step.
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Where’s Grapevine in all this....🤔👍,bring it home to us mate...😉0
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Was that this one?Redrobo said:Her reply to Southall after his threat of litigation singed my fingers.
https://www.castrust.org/2020/05/cast-responds-to-southalls-threat-to-sue/
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Bloody hell. Talk about getting served.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
Was that this one?Redrobo said:Her reply to Southall after his threat of litigation singed my fingers.
https://www.castrust.org/2020/05/cast-responds-to-southalls-threat-to-sue/7 -
Blucher said:
What a great result, especially as the judicial tide appeared to be flowing against us until the very last knockings. I listened by phone on a weak stream and was, fittingly, just about to enter a pub to meet some Charlton supporting mates up town when the Judge delivered the denouement.
First and foremost, congratulations to Lauren, who did a sterling job when pitted against a vastly experienced QC, who took silk nearly 20 year ago and who sits as a Deputy High Court Judge.
Judge Pearce accepted that Elliot’s company satisfied the first two limbs of the test, including that damages would not be an adequate remedy if an injunction was denied. The latter finding seemed soft to me, given that any damages claim could be founded upon (1) any sale price subsequently paid for the club and (2) expenditure incurred during the last three or four months in terms of meeting any shortfall in wages etc. Having largely accepted the thrust of practically all the Claimant’s submissions, the Judge then turned the application on its head deep into stoppage time by giving full and proper weight to the very serious risks facing the club and the bigger picture, including its outstanding community work. Articles from the Supporters Trust, in particular, were exhibited to Mihail’s statement and they clearly helped to get the ball over the line, so great work from the authors and the Trust generally.
There was a lot of focus during the hearing on the serious shortcomings in Mihail’s statement. It clearly had some major omissions and one highly significant error which undermined the credibility of his evidence generally. All of this served to put Panoramic on the back foot and I thought it was skilfully exploited by Elliot’s QC. Perhaps none of it is surprising, given the shambolic way in which ESI has conducted its affairs from outset and Lauren was, as a result, dealt a very difficult hand. I don’t know who her instructing solicitors were or how long they have been involved but can you imagine trying to obtain instructions from Nimer and his associates ? Part of the problem in trying to construct a coherent narrative around the events in question is a suspicion that the true motivation for the £1 sale/conditional sale to Elliot’s company is a story that may never be told.
I think an application for permission to appeal may well be made to Judge Pearce this afternoon, as Elliot may feel there’s not much to be lost in having a go. His real objective (far from the “prestige” of owning Charlton) is to somehow get his nose into the trough or, as his QC rather quaintly put it, “be part of the process” (or words to that effect). Elliot will try and keep the issues alive if he can for tactical reasons. Should Judge Pearce refuse leave, permission can be sought from the Court of Appeal, who will determine the application on paper without an oral hearing, save where the judge considering the application directs otherwise (which is unlikely, especially given the pressure on court time).
The difficulty which Elliot faces is that the ground upon which the application for an injunction failed - the balance of convenience - is very much a matter of impression for a Judge. Having carefully reviewed the evidence and listened to over three hours of submissions, an appeal court is likely to be reluctant to overturn the conclusion which he has reached. On that basis, an appeal is unlikely to have a real prospect of success and nor is there is any other compelling reason for it to be heard.
I have real doubts as to whether Elliot’s and Panoramic’s dispute will ever reach a trial - speedy to otherwise - although it would be a lot of fun to watch. Apart from the costs involved and witnesses like Elliot and Farnell being subjected to the purifying ordeal of cross-examination, the chances of ever enforcing a judgment against Panoramic in the UAE are remote; that is especially so, given that its only assets are its shares in ESI, which it will hopefully now be selling in short order.
We all know that we have a little further to go on the road to salvation but this is undoubtedly a huge step.
Fantastic and very helpful post @Blucher Many thanks.
I for one hadn't fully appreciated the CAST's specific and likely crucial role in the evidence presented yesterday. Brilliant job CAST.
As said so many times by everyone, what an unbelievable Club, what an amazingly dedicated and talented family of fans. Welcome to the family (hopefully) Tommy.
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Great news 👌0
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If you look at it from that perspective we were in a lose/lose situation.AddicksAddict said:Amid all the celebrations we should remember this has cleared the way for Nimer and Mouthall to walk away with a possibly substantial reward for doing feck all to help our club.Either you clear the way for Elliott and Farnell to actually destroy the club and be left with foundations of an AFC, or you clear the way for Nimer and Southall to sell the club onwards to TS or another group and make a profit.
Obviously it’s sickening that Southall is going to get a pay day after separating the club and The Valley + SL, but his troubles are not over and he may spend the next year being sued by various people, as well as always looking over his shoulder after he has angered several thousand fans over the last 8 months. Also no one is ever going to let him near another football club again.6 -
Your poem doesn’t scan, your word choice is prosaic and there is no rhyme. It’s a “No” from me.3blokes said:It’s bloody brilliant.
What a bunch of supporters this club has.
I’m overwhelmed by all this tbh.
A remarkable achievement.
Hopefully onwards and upwards now.7 -
Read it out loud in an arty farty voice and it works fine.KiwiValley said:
Your poem doesn’t scan, your word choice is prosaic and there is no rhyme. It’s a “No” from me.3blokes said:It’s bloody brilliant.
What a bunch of supporters this club has.
I’m overwhelmed by all this tbh.
A remarkable achievement.
Hopefully onwards and upwards now.4 -
Is Judge Pearce's conclusion in print anywhere? Would like to read it just as a matter of interest.0
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Raith_C_Chattonell said:Is Judge Pearce's conclusion in print anywhere? Would like to read it just as a matter of interest.
I intend to print and frame it!!
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I think we should all print a copy and send to IPS Law...15
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Anyone else wonder how elliots conversation went with his wife last night0
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Todds_right_hook said:Anyone else wonder how elliots conversation went with his wife last night
I doubt it would have ended well.
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Depends what Farnell told him to say.Todds_right_hook said:Anyone else wonder how elliots conversation went with his wife last night15 -
"How'd d'ya fancy Blackpool next year?"Todds_right_hook said:Anyone else wonder how elliots conversation went with his wife last night7 -
I spent yesterday afternoon following events and yesterday evening reading CL. As good as a match day thread and thanks to everyone who contributed.
There are some fine brains that support our club, I dont mind admitting they lost a few times but I got the jist of what was going on and was never in any doubt we would win.
I hope we all get to enjoy watching the demise of Elliottt, Farnell, Southhall and anyone else associated.
Occasionally, my walk from Charing Cross to work I buy a coffee, buy an Issue or give some change to the less fortunate, it is a dream of mine to that for one of the 3 above.6 -
Was that her work? I thought someone else had already claimed it.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
Was that this one?Redrobo said:Her reply to Southall after his threat of litigation singed my fingers.
https://www.castrust.org/2020/05/cast-responds-to-southalls-threat-to-sue/0 -
Can I just thank, our wonderful @aliwibble for her bitesize of the court hearing (as well as all her other ones), as it was brilliant for those of us who didn't hear it all. Thank you!Raith_C_Chattonell said:Is Judge Pearce's conclusion in print anywhere? Would like to read it just as a matter of interest.23 -
@Pico tried to claim it, but very tongue in cheek.Stig said:
Was that her work? I thought someone else had already claimed it.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
Was that this one?Redrobo said:Her reply to Southall after his threat of litigation singed my fingers.
https://www.castrust.org/2020/05/cast-responds-to-southalls-threat-to-sue/5 -
I've got a bone to pick with you H, I had a heart tremour when the judge was summing up you was painting a bleak picture ! I don't pay my fiver for that! 😉.Weegie Addick said:
@Pico tried to claim it, but very tongue in cheek.Stig said:
Was that her work? I thought someone else had already claimed it.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
Was that this one?Redrobo said:Her reply to Southall after his threat of litigation singed my fingers.
https://www.castrust.org/2020/05/cast-responds-to-southalls-threat-to-sue/8
