I purchased the stream for todays game and have now redeemed my code and saw the "success" screen, but, once I click on view todays stream it says I don't have access to this stream, (in My subscriptions it is there)
I know it is not streaming yet but normally a tv screen comes up saying something like "stream will start later" has anyone else got this or not, I don't want problems just before the game starts I've sent an email as it just seems different to normal
Someone has this issue every game & the CAFC team always sort this out for them.
Cheers, never had a problem before, hopefully no issue today then
These kind of discussions miss one point, and that is that any amount of money means something different to different people.
If you earn 30+ grand a year and have little or no mortgage then 10 quid has less value than for someone who earns 20 grand with a mortgage and 3 kids.
Your earnings/financial situation don’t have anything to with whether or not something is value for money (which is what the original post asked). It may be more/less affordable, you may be more/less willing to pay it, but value for money is dependent on cost and quality of product, not how much that product is in comparison to how much money you have.
With the new format, Minto plus a guest and replays the whole thing it's a lot more professional and well worth £10 in my opinion. Hopefully when covid restrictions ease we can get a different guest each week and not just Curbs in his M&S loafers ! Love you really Curbs
With the new format, Minto plus a guest and replays the whole thing it's a lot more professional and well worth £10 in my opinion. Hopefully when covid restrictions ease we can get a different guest each week and not just Curbs in his M&S loafers ! Love you really Curbs
It's potentially a double edged sword, having the ability to watch a game, in quality, might make less people attend in person when we can. However I assume once tings are normal again we won't be able to stream.
With the new format, Minto plus a guest and replays the whole thing it's a lot more professional and well worth £10 in my opinion. Hopefully when covid restrictions ease we can get a different guest each week and not just Curbs in his M&S loafers ! Love you really Curbs
It's potentially a double edged sword, having the ability to watch a game, in quality, might make less people attend in person when we can. However I assume once tings are normal again we won't be able to stream.
It's definitely at least 3 log ins.
Why assume that?
Streaming is undoubtedly the way forward. All COVID has done is bring forward a development that was bound to happen by a few years.
Most people on here are the keenest Charlton fans who will want to attend each and every match. Until 4 years ago, when I gave up my season ticket, that would probably have included me.
But things change. I'm getting older. TFL and Sadiq Khan have now made it impossible for me to drive across London, so I have to get public transport (fine for getting there, a complete pain getting home - an hour on a bus back to North Greenwich, no thanks). I really don't want to be getting home after midnight for a midweek game and let's be honest, I've just got out of the habit of going every week. So the days of me wanting to travel so I can attend week in, week out are probably over. But do I still want to see the games? Heck yes!
Carry on with the streaming and you will get money from me and others in the same situation who otherwise wouldn't be paying anything to the club.
The objections to it that it will reduce attendances just don't hold water anymore, not now that most people buy season tickets. (If you have a ST and decide not to go, you've already paid). And unlike in the old days, when people would often attend other games, I don't believe neutral supporters these days look to attend games of other teams in any real numbers.
Streaming is the way forward. The genie is now out of the bottle and the clubs will quickly realise that they can make millions more by streaming games themselves and by cutting Sky/BT sports out of the equation. (In fact, I think long-term Sky are finished). Clubs should be looking to harness it to encourage people to subscribe - as Charlton have done with their new coverage which I think is absolutely brilliant - instead of fighting a technical development that isn't going to go away.
With the new format, Minto plus a guest and replays the whole thing it's a lot more professional and well worth £10 in my opinion. Hopefully when covid restrictions ease we can get a different guest each week and not just Curbs in his M&S loafers ! Love you really Curbs
It's potentially a double edged sword, having the ability to watch a game, in quality, might make less people attend in person when we can. However I assume once tings are normal again we won't be able to stream.
It's definitely at least 3 log ins.
Why assume that?
Streaming is undoubtedly the way forward. All COVID has done is bring forward a development that was bound to happen by a few years.
Most people on here are the keenest Charlton fans who will want to attend each and every match. Until 4 years ago, when I gave up my season ticket, that would probably have included me.
But things change. I'm getting older. TFL and Sadiq Khan have now made it impossible for me to drive across London, so I have to get public transport (fine for getting there, a complete pain getting home - an hour on a bus back to North Greenwich, no thanks). I really don't want to be getting home after midnight for a midweek game and let's be honest, I've just got out of the habit of going every week. So the days of me wanting to travel so I can attend week in, week out are probably over. But do I still want to see the games? Heck yes!
Carry on with the streaming and you will get money from me and others in the same situation who otherwise wouldn't be paying anything to the club.
The objections to it that it will reduce attendances just don't hold water anymore, not now that most people buy season tickets. (If you have a ST and decide not to go, you've already paid). And unlike in the old days, when people would often attend other games, I don't believe neutral supporters these days look to attend games of other teams in any real numbers.
Streaming is the way forward. The genie is now out of the bottle and the clubs will quickly realise that they can make millions more by streaming games themselves and by cutting Sky/BT sports out of the equation. (In fact, I think long-term Sky are finished). Clubs should be looking to harness it to encourage people to subscribe - as Charlton have done with their new coverage which I think is absolutely brilliant - instead of fighting a technical development that isn't going to go away.
Totally agree ... not easy for me to attend the Valley even in normal times so would love this to continue
My Son and I watch it (same household) so £5 each for the game and the extras is a bargain AND supports the club in these difficult times. I think the new format is great and Scott Minto is brilliant and one of our own to boot.
Serious question. What don't you agree with in my post?
I can remember when games were first shown live on TV. It was a revolution. People said it would kill live football. 30 years later no-one bats an eye-lid at games being shown live. And crowds have gone up substantially over that period.
You may still want to go every week. It maybe easy for you to do so. For me, and hundreds of others who don't live so close to the ground, it's not that easy. The club can take our money from streaming games or have nothing.
Times change. Technology moves on. You can either embrace it or fight it. But there will only be one winner - the technology.
Streaming is the future. You may not like it but that is the reality.
With the new format, Minto plus a guest and replays the whole thing it's a lot more professional and well worth £10 in my opinion. Hopefully when covid restrictions ease we can get a different guest each week and not just Curbs in his M&S loafers ! Love you really Curbs
It's potentially a double edged sword, having the ability to watch a game, in quality, might make less people attend in person when we can. However I assume once tings are normal again we won't be able to stream.
It's definitely at least 3 log ins.
Why assume that?
Streaming is undoubtedly the way forward. All COVID has done is bring forward a development that was bound to happen by a few years.
Most people on here are the keenest Charlton fans who will want to attend each and every match. Until 4 years ago, when I gave up my season ticket, that would probably have included me.
But things change. I'm getting older. TFL and Sadiq Khan have now made it impossible for me to drive across London, so I have to get public transport (fine for getting there, a complete pain getting home - an hour on a bus back to North Greenwich, no thanks). I really don't want to be getting home after midnight for a midweek game and let's be honest, I've just got out of the habit of going every week. So the days of me wanting to travel so I can attend week in, week out are probably over. But do I still want to see the games? Heck yes!
Carry on with the streaming and you will get money from me and others in the same situation who otherwise wouldn't be paying anything to the club.
The objections to it that it will reduce attendances just don't hold water anymore, not now that most people buy season tickets. (If you have a ST and decide not to go, you've already paid). And unlike in the old days, when people would often attend other games, I don't believe neutral supporters these days look to attend games of other teams in any real numbers.
Streaming is the way forward. The genie is now out of the bottle and the clubs will quickly realise that they can make millions more by streaming games themselves and by cutting Sky/BT sports out of the equation. (In fact, I think long-term Sky are finished). Clubs should be looking to harness it to encourage people to subscribe - as Charlton have done with their new coverage which I think is absolutely brilliant - instead of fighting a technical development that isn't going to go away.
So all TS has to do is turn the corners into flats, sell off half the ground for other uses, develop the Valley to a capacity of 4,000 or so or move to Park View Welling. When RD said that there were rucktions.
I think most people will want to get out more, not find more excuses to stay in. Not unless everyone has become stir crazy anyway.
Absoutely not. And not what I am suggesting for a minute.
There will always be a good proportion of people who want to go to games. (As I said, until 2016 I went week in, week out for years and I will still want to go to some games - just not every one now (particularly midweek ones)). I suspect even if games were streamed when things go back to normal, the overwhelming majority of people will still want to attend in person.
But if there is an alternative for those who can't get to games - for whatever reason - it's more money in the club's coffers. And that can't be a bad thing.
With the new format, Minto plus a guest and replays the whole thing it's a lot more professional and well worth £10 in my opinion. Hopefully when covid restrictions ease we can get a different guest each week and not just Curbs in his M&S loafers ! Love you really Curbs
It's potentially a double edged sword, having the ability to watch a game, in quality, might make less people attend in person when we can. However I assume once tings are normal again we won't be able to stream.
It's definitely at least 3 log ins.
Why assume that?
Streaming is undoubtedly the way forward. All COVID has done is bring forward a development that was bound to happen by a few years.
Most people on here are the keenest Charlton fans who will want to attend each and every match. Until 4 years ago, when I gave up my season ticket, that would probably have included me.
But things change. I'm getting older. TFL and Sadiq Khan have now made it impossible for me to drive across London, so I have to get public transport (fine for getting there, a complete pain getting home - an hour on a bus back to North Greenwich, no thanks). I really don't want to be getting home after midnight for a midweek game and let's be honest, I've just got out of the habit of going every week. So the days of me wanting to travel so I can attend week in, week out are probably over. But do I still want to see the games? Heck yes!
Carry on with the streaming and you will get money from me and others in the same situation who otherwise wouldn't be paying anything to the club.
The objections to it that it will reduce attendances just don't hold water anymore, not now that most people buy season tickets. (If you have a ST and decide not to go, you've already paid). And unlike in the old days, when people would often attend other games, I don't believe neutral supporters these days look to attend games of other teams in any real numbers.
Streaming is the way forward. The genie is now out of the bottle and the clubs will quickly realise that they can make millions more by streaming games themselves and by cutting Sky/BT sports out of the equation. (In fact, I think long-term Sky are finished). Clubs should be looking to harness it to encourage people to subscribe - as Charlton have done with their new coverage which I think is absolutely brilliant - instead of fighting a technical development that isn't going to go away.
So who is going to be bothered to buy a season ticket, if people decide they can sit at home watching a stream. People already are complaining about the cost of £10.00 a match stream. How many EFL sides will make millions out of streaming ? I'm sure the idea of improving the Valley Pass coverage was to lure people from illegal streams. It would be interesting to see how many fans still use the illegal streams.
In terms of Value for money, I tend to think of it in terms of how much I would be willing to pay for the service if it wasn't there. In those terms £10 doesn't seem too high for me, but it may seem that for others based on the money they have at their disposal to spend and their need to see us play live.
I think the whole set-up with Minto and Curbs is fantastic value for money... Think the commentary could do with a little more work, I do like the fact it is coming from fans perspectives, but they are sometimes OTT biased
With the new format, Minto plus a guest and replays the whole thing it's a lot more professional and well worth £10 in my opinion. Hopefully when covid restrictions ease we can get a different guest each week and not just Curbs in his M&S loafers ! Love you really Curbs
It's potentially a double edged sword, having the ability to watch a game, in quality, might make less people attend in person when we can. However I assume once tings are normal again we won't be able to stream.
It's definitely at least 3 log ins.
Why assume that?
Streaming is undoubtedly the way forward. All COVID has done is bring forward a development that was bound to happen by a few years.
Most people on here are the keenest Charlton fans who will want to attend each and every match. Until 4 years ago, when I gave up my season ticket, that would probably have included me.
But things change. I'm getting older. TFL and Sadiq Khan have now made it impossible for me to drive across London, so I have to get public transport (fine for getting there, a complete pain getting home - an hour on a bus back to North Greenwich, no thanks). I really don't want to be getting home after midnight for a midweek game and let's be honest, I've just got out of the habit of going every week. So the days of me wanting to travel so I can attend week in, week out are probably over. But do I still want to see the games? Heck yes!
Carry on with the streaming and you will get money from me and others in the same situation who otherwise wouldn't be paying anything to the club.
The objections to it that it will reduce attendances just don't hold water anymore, not now that most people buy season tickets. (If you have a ST and decide not to go, you've already paid). And unlike in the old days, when people would often attend other games, I don't believe neutral supporters these days look to attend games of other teams in any real numbers.
Streaming is the way forward. The genie is now out of the bottle and the clubs will quickly realise that they can make millions more by streaming games themselves and by cutting Sky/BT sports out of the equation. (In fact, I think long-term Sky are finished). Clubs should be looking to harness it to encourage people to subscribe - as Charlton have done with their new coverage which I think is absolutely brilliant - instead of fighting a technical development that isn't going to go away.
So who is going to be bothered to buy a season ticket, if people decide they can sit at home watching a stream. People already are complaining about the cost of £10.00 a match stream. How many EFL sides will make millions out of streaming ? I'm sure the idea of improving the Valley Pass coverage was to lure people from illegal streams. It would be interesting to see how many fans still use the illegal streams.
Lots of people will still carry on buying a season ticket as they will prefer to see football in the flesh. No argument from me - if you see an exciting game that is the way to do it. And I stand to be corrected but wasn't the last season ticket price for the north stand £260? So if you stream all 23 games, the price differential is marginal at best. Raise the price of the streaming if you are so concerned about it being cheaper to stream than watch in person.
A handful of people are complaining about the price of the stream (and then mostly about the picture quality). Most people realise £10 is a bargain for what we are now getting.
We sell, I believe, about 4,000 streams a home game. Suppose that drops to 1,500 when fans allowed back in. That's still £345,000 at current prices. Put the price up, or more people carry on streaming, and you're soon up to a half a million. That's not an insignificant amount of money.
But even when things go back to normal, how many people will be travelling to most of our away games? I'm not talking about local derbies or places like Portsmouth, more like Blackburn. 300 or 400? Streaming gives everyone a chance to see the team play away, not just the few hundred who have the time and the money to do so. Didn't you enjoy watching the MK Dons game the other night - something I couldn't have done if it wasn't streamed.
As there seems to be no way of preventing illegal streaming, if the club raises the price of Valley Pass, people will just revert to them. Yesterday Portsmouth would probably have filled the Jimmy Seed Stand, if streaming was available, would that ever happen. As somebody who attends all home & away games [in normal circumstances] & have done for most of my life i would have been at MK Dons so would have enjoyed it. There are people perhaps who would attend a local non-league match when we are away, would they bother if they could stay at home watching a stream. If fewer away supporters attend matches that would damage the atmosphere & also damage the economy of some towns & cities around the country.
With the new format, Minto plus a guest and replays the whole thing it's a lot more professional and well worth £10 in my opinion. Hopefully when covid restrictions ease we can get a different guest each week and not just Curbs in his M&S loafers ! Love you really Curbs
It's potentially a double edged sword, having the ability to watch a game, in quality, might make less people attend in person when we can. However I assume once tings are normal again we won't be able to stream.
It's definitely at least 3 log ins.
Why assume that?
Streaming is undoubtedly the way forward. All COVID has done is bring forward a development that was bound to happen by a few years.
Most people on here are the keenest Charlton fans who will want to attend each and every match. Until 4 years ago, when I gave up my season ticket, that would probably have included me.
But things change. I'm getting older. TFL and Sadiq Khan have now made it impossible for me to drive across London, so I have to get public transport (fine for getting there, a complete pain getting home - an hour on a bus back to North Greenwich, no thanks). I really don't want to be getting home after midnight for a midweek game and let's be honest, I've just got out of the habit of going every week. So the days of me wanting to travel so I can attend week in, week out are probably over. But do I still want to see the games? Heck yes!
Carry on with the streaming and you will get money from me and others in the same situation who otherwise wouldn't be paying anything to the club.
The objections to it that it will reduce attendances just don't hold water anymore, not now that most people buy season tickets. (If you have a ST and decide not to go, you've already paid). And unlike in the old days, when people would often attend other games, I don't believe neutral supporters these days look to attend games of other teams in any real numbers.
Streaming is the way forward. The genie is now out of the bottle and the clubs will quickly realise that they can make millions more by streaming games themselves and by cutting Sky/BT sports out of the equation. (In fact, I think long-term Sky are finished). Clubs should be looking to harness it to encourage people to subscribe - as Charlton have done with their new coverage which I think is absolutely brilliant - instead of fighting a technical development that isn't going to go away.
Whilst undoubtedly it'll work for you and if you never attended the club will make extra revenue.
But for every one person who stoped attending (whether one game or completely) they probably need 3/4 people streaming. The fact right now we are only seeing around 4,000 streams must mean the club are losing a considerable sum.
As there seems to be no way of preventing illegal streaming, if the club raises the price of Valley Pass, people will just revert to them. Yesterday Portsmouth would probably have filled the Jimmy Seed Stand, if streaming was available, would that ever happen. As somebody who attends all home & away games [in normal circumstances] & have done for most of my life i would have been at MK Dons so would have enjoyed it. There are people perhaps who would attend a local non-league match when we are away, would they bother if they could stay at home watching a stream. If fewer away supporters attend matches that would damage the atmosphere & also damage the economy of some towns & cities around the country.
I'm sure Portsmouth would have filled the JS yesterday, irrespective of the game being streamed. But I take your point about away fans generally. Guess it just depends on the make-up of your away support - if it is overwhelmingly teens and people in their twenties I don't think numbers will reduce. If your away support is older, then sure numbers will go down.
Anyway, good to debate. Will be interesting to see what happens when things get back to normal. Or as normal as they can.
With the new format, Minto plus a guest and replays the whole thing it's a lot more professional and well worth £10 in my opinion. Hopefully when covid restrictions ease we can get a different guest each week and not just Curbs in his M&S loafers ! Love you really Curbs
It's potentially a double edged sword, having the ability to watch a game, in quality, might make less people attend in person when we can. However I assume once tings are normal again we won't be able to stream.
It's definitely at least 3 log ins.
Why assume that?
Streaming is undoubtedly the way forward. All COVID has done is bring forward a development that was bound to happen by a few years.
Most people on here are the keenest Charlton fans who will want to attend each and every match. Until 4 years ago, when I gave up my season ticket, that would probably have included me.
But things change. I'm getting older. TFL and Sadiq Khan have now made it impossible for me to drive across London, so I have to get public transport (fine for getting there, a complete pain getting home - an hour on a bus back to North Greenwich, no thanks). I really don't want to be getting home after midnight for a midweek game and let's be honest, I've just got out of the habit of going every week. So the days of me wanting to travel so I can attend week in, week out are probably over. But do I still want to see the games? Heck yes!
Carry on with the streaming and you will get money from me and others in the same situation who otherwise wouldn't be paying anything to the club.
The objections to it that it will reduce attendances just don't hold water anymore, not now that most people buy season tickets. (If you have a ST and decide not to go, you've already paid). And unlike in the old days, when people would often attend other games, I don't believe neutral supporters these days look to attend games of other teams in any real numbers.
Streaming is the way forward. The genie is now out of the bottle and the clubs will quickly realise that they can make millions more by streaming games themselves and by cutting Sky/BT sports out of the equation. (In fact, I think long-term Sky are finished). Clubs should be looking to harness it to encourage people to subscribe - as Charlton have done with their new coverage which I think is absolutely brilliant - instead of fighting a technical development that isn't going to go away.
Whilst undoubtedly it'll work for you and if you never attended the club will make extra revenue.
But for every one person who stoped attending (whether one game or completely) they probably need 3/4 people streaming. The fact right now we are only seeing around 4,000 streams must mean the club are losing a considerable sum.
Away attendances will undoubtedly reduce.
You're generally right on the button with your finance stuff but I'm not sure you are here.
Take away fans' receipts. Suppose we are at home to Blackburn . They bring 600 paying £25. Revenue to the club £15000.
Stream it. They bring only half that, say 300. But 4000 stream the game at home. So that's 300 x 25 plus 4000 x 10. Revenue to the club £47,500. 3 times as much as not streaming it.
With the new format, Minto plus a guest and replays the whole thing it's a lot more professional and well worth £10 in my opinion. Hopefully when covid restrictions ease we can get a different guest each week and not just Curbs in his M&S loafers ! Love you really Curbs
It's potentially a double edged sword, having the ability to watch a game, in quality, might make less people attend in person when we can. However I assume once tings are normal again we won't be able to stream.
It's definitely at least 3 log ins.
Why assume that?
Streaming is undoubtedly the way forward. All COVID has done is bring forward a development that was bound to happen by a few years.
Most people on here are the keenest Charlton fans who will want to attend each and every match. Until 4 years ago, when I gave up my season ticket, that would probably have included me.
But things change. I'm getting older. TFL and Sadiq Khan have now made it impossible for me to drive across London, so I have to get public transport (fine for getting there, a complete pain getting home - an hour on a bus back to North Greenwich, no thanks). I really don't want to be getting home after midnight for a midweek game and let's be honest, I've just got out of the habit of going every week. So the days of me wanting to travel so I can attend week in, week out are probably over. But do I still want to see the games? Heck yes!
Carry on with the streaming and you will get money from me and others in the same situation who otherwise wouldn't be paying anything to the club.
The objections to it that it will reduce attendances just don't hold water anymore, not now that most people buy season tickets. (If you have a ST and decide not to go, you've already paid). And unlike in the old days, when people would often attend other games, I don't believe neutral supporters these days look to attend games of other teams in any real numbers.
Streaming is the way forward. The genie is now out of the bottle and the clubs will quickly realise that they can make millions more by streaming games themselves and by cutting Sky/BT sports out of the equation. (In fact, I think long-term Sky are finished). Clubs should be looking to harness it to encourage people to subscribe - as Charlton have done with their new coverage which I think is absolutely brilliant - instead of fighting a technical development that isn't going to go away.
Whilst undoubtedly it'll work for you and if you never attended the club will make extra revenue.
But for every one person who stoped attending (whether one game or completely) they probably need 3/4 people streaming. The fact right now we are only seeing around 4,000 streams must mean the club are losing a considerable sum.
Away attendances will undoubtedly reduce.
You're generally right on the button with your finance stuff but I'm not sure you are here.
Take away fans' receipts. Suppose we are at home to Blackburn . They bring 600 paying £25. Revenue to the club £15000.
Stream it. They bring only half that, say 300. But 4000 stream the game at home. So that's 300 x 25 plus 4000 x 10. Revenue to the club £47,500. 3 times as much as not streaming it.
I was referring to home fans, but I don't think the math is that straight forward.
On away fans there is currently a financial split between home and away clubs, plus not sure the club/s usually keep the full £10 anyway? You also miss on the extra sales of food, drinks, programmes etc etc (believe the programmes grosses around £40k which I guess is £25k profit?.
The vast majority of away games I probably spend half as much again in the ground as the ticket price, probably more if my daughters come on concession tickets.
With zero people in the Valley we are seeing only 4,000 stream, that means either people live together (as in my case) or a lot of people aren't bothering to watch matches. As we all know habits are hard to break, I do fear attendances are going to take some rebuilding and giving the option of continual streaming won't help that.
If a home fan pays £25 to attend, if they do not but buy an individual ticket then of course the difference is only £15 if they buy a stream. However many come in groups/families of varying sizes. If I don't go to a match but buy a £10 stream that's likely £80-90 I haven't spent so net £70-80 loss (3 tickets, drinks, food, programmes etc).
I think it's going to be quite complex and as yet the big unknown is the return of fans.
A lot of us are desperate to return to The Valley. Speaking personally, I am but not in a sterile reduced capacity situation, but an unrestricted post Covid restrictions one where everybody is safe.
With the new format, Minto plus a guest and replays the whole thing it's a lot more professional and well worth £10 in my opinion. Hopefully when covid restrictions ease we can get a different guest each week and not just Curbs in his M&S loafers ! Love you really Curbs
It's potentially a double edged sword, having the ability to watch a game, in quality, might make less people attend in person when we can. However I assume once tings are normal again we won't be able to stream.
It's definitely at least 3 log ins.
Why assume that?
Streaming is undoubtedly the way forward. All COVID has done is bring forward a development that was bound to happen by a few years.
Most people on here are the keenest Charlton fans who will want to attend each and every match. Until 4 years ago, when I gave up my season ticket, that would probably have included me.
But things change. I'm getting older. TFL and Sadiq Khan have now made it impossible for me to drive across London, so I have to get public transport (fine for getting there, a complete pain getting home - an hour on a bus back to North Greenwich, no thanks). I really don't want to be getting home after midnight for a midweek game and let's be honest, I've just got out of the habit of going every week. So the days of me wanting to travel so I can attend week in, week out are probably over. But do I still want to see the games? Heck yes!
Carry on with the streaming and you will get money from me and others in the same situation who otherwise wouldn't be paying anything to the club.
The objections to it that it will reduce attendances just don't hold water anymore, not now that most people buy season tickets. (If you have a ST and decide not to go, you've already paid). And unlike in the old days, when people would often attend other games, I don't believe neutral supporters these days look to attend games of other teams in any real numbers.
Streaming is the way forward. The genie is now out of the bottle and the clubs will quickly realise that they can make millions more by streaming games themselves and by cutting Sky/BT sports out of the equation. (In fact, I think long-term Sky are finished). Clubs should be looking to harness it to encourage people to subscribe - as Charlton have done with their new coverage which I think is absolutely brilliant - instead of fighting a technical development that isn't going to go away.
Whilst undoubtedly it'll work for you and if you never attended the club will make extra revenue.
But for every one person who stoped attending (whether one game or completely) they probably need 3/4 people streaming. The fact right now we are only seeing around 4,000 streams must mean the club are losing a considerable sum.
Away attendances will undoubtedly reduce.
You're generally right on the button with your finance stuff but I'm not sure you are here.
Take away fans' receipts. Suppose we are at home to Blackburn . They bring 600 paying £25. Revenue to the club £15000.
Stream it. They bring only half that, say 300. But 4000 stream the game at home. So that's 300 x 25 plus 4000 x 10. Revenue to the club £47,500. 3 times as much as not streaming it.
I was referring to home fans, but I don't think the math is that straight forward.
On away fans there is currently a financial split between home and away clubs, plus not sure the club/s usually keep the full £10 anyway? You also miss on the extra sales of food, drinks, programmes etc etc (believe the programmes grosses around £40k which I guess is £25k profit?.
The vast majority of away games I probably spend half as much again in the ground as the ticket price, probably more if my daughters come on concession tickets.
With zero people in the Valley we are seeing only 4,000 stream, that means either people live together (as in my case) or a lot of people aren't bothering to watch matches. As we all know habits are hard to break, I do fear attendances are going to take some rebuilding and giving the option of continual streaming won't help that.
If a home fan pays £25 to attend, if they do not but buy an individual ticket then of course the difference is only £15 if they buy a stream. However many come in groups/families of varying sizes. If I don't go to a match but buy a £10 stream that's likely £80-90 I haven't spent so net £70-80 loss (3 tickets, drinks, food, programmes etc).
I think it's going to be quite complex and as yet the big unknown is the return of fans.
Thanks. I take your point although don't the profits from the sale of food etc go to the franchise holder rather than the club? And programmes are, sadly, dying out.
As I said, the genies out of the bottle. It will be hard to put it back in. If streaming is stopped in this country, presumably the league will still want to sell those streams abroad as they were doing previously. Then a VPN simply becomes your friend and you just take the stream that way.
I agree that the genie is out of the bottle now in terms of streaming. Can’t imagine watching an away game on text commentary again if I’m at home.
But drawing national boundaries will always create issues. In a pre-Covid world, I could live in Calais (about 4 hours travel away from The Valley) and legally stream a game, but if I lived in Scotland (about 6 hours away from The Valley), I could not legally stream despite still being in the UK. Somewhat ludicrous when you think about it.
Maybe there’s something in the NFL model for a post COVID world. If it’s not a sellout, its not shown on TV in the local area. Translated to lower league football - if a certain number of tickets aren’t sold (guaranteeing a minimum amount of revenue to the club), streaming can’t occur as it may disincentivise people from going in person.
Or you make streaming the same price as an adult ticket (maybe even more given that multiple people may watch together). But definitely shouldn’t return to the pre-COVID model
If people want to have a stream once crowds go back, then the cost needs to be really high, I.e. if you want to watch it from the comfort of your home, then you pay at least the top price that those who have gone to the game are paying
I agree that the genie is out of the bottle now in terms of streaming. Can’t imagine watching an away game on text commentary again if I’m at home.
But drawing national boundaries will always create issues. In a pre-Covid world, I could live in Calais (about 4 hours travel away from The Valley) and legally stream a game, but if I lived in Scotland (about 6 hours away from The Valley), I could not legally stream despite still being in the UK. Somewhat ludicrous when you think about it.
Maybe there’s something in the NFL model for a post COVID world. If it’s not a sellout, its not shown on TV in the local area. Translated to lower league football - if a certain number of tickets aren’t sold (guaranteeing a minimum amount of revenue to the club), streaming can’t occur as it may disincentivise people from going in person.
Or you make streaming the same price as an adult ticket (maybe even more given that multiple people may watch together). But definitely shouldn’t return to the pre-COVID model
That would be an interesting idea. I go to most away games (remember when fans could go to away games?!) and the stadiums are already generally 1/2 to 2/3 full (at best).
I would be genuinely interested at how abolishing the 3pm blackout and allowing streaming of all games would impact attendances. It might even mean that clubs start treating fans a little bit better to encourage them through the door, some of the facilities and ways fans are treated - particularly at away games - is atrocious, but it’s up until now the only (legal) way you can see your team.
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I've tried so can watch the Bow's and Scottie bants while making a late night dinner away from computer.
If you earn 30+ grand a year and have little or no mortgage then 10 quid has less value than for someone who earns 20 grand with a mortgage and 3 kids.
It's definitely at least 3 log ins.
Streaming is undoubtedly the way forward. All COVID has done is bring forward a development that was bound to happen by a few years.
Most people on here are the keenest Charlton fans who will want to attend each and every match. Until 4 years ago, when I gave up my season ticket, that would probably have included me.
But things change. I'm getting older. TFL and Sadiq Khan have now made it impossible for me to drive across London, so I have to get public transport (fine for getting there, a complete pain getting home - an hour on a bus back to North Greenwich, no thanks). I really don't want to be getting home after midnight for a midweek game and let's be honest, I've just got out of the habit of going every week. So the days of me wanting to travel so I can attend week in, week out are probably over. But do I still want to see the games? Heck yes!
Carry on with the streaming and you will get money from me and others in the same situation who otherwise wouldn't be paying anything to the club.
The objections to it that it will reduce attendances just don't hold water anymore, not now that most people buy season tickets. (If you have a ST and decide not to go, you've already paid). And unlike in the old days, when people would often attend other games, I don't believe neutral supporters these days look to attend games of other teams in any real numbers.
Streaming is the way forward. The genie is now out of the bottle and the clubs will quickly realise that they can make millions more by streaming games themselves and by cutting Sky/BT sports out of the equation. (In fact, I think long-term Sky are finished). Clubs should be looking to harness it to encourage people to subscribe - as Charlton have done with their new coverage which I think is absolutely brilliant - instead of fighting a technical development that isn't going to go away.
Serious question. What don't you agree with in my post?
I can remember when games were first shown live on TV. It was a revolution. People said it would kill live football. 30 years later no-one bats an eye-lid at games being shown live. And crowds have gone up substantially over that period.
You may still want to go every week. It maybe easy for you to do so. For me, and hundreds of others who don't live so close to the ground, it's not that easy. The club can take our money from streaming games or have nothing.
Times change. Technology moves on. You can either embrace it or fight it. But there will only be one winner - the technology.
Streaming is the future. You may not like it but that is the reality.
There will always be a good proportion of people who want to go to games. (As I said, until 2016 I went week in, week out for years and I will still want to go to some games - just not every one now (particularly midweek ones)). I suspect even if games were streamed when things go back to normal, the overwhelming majority of people will still want to attend in person.
But if there is an alternative for those who can't get to games - for whatever reason - it's more money in the club's coffers. And that can't be a bad thing.
People already are complaining about the cost of £10.00 a match stream.
How many EFL sides will make millions out of streaming ?
I'm sure the idea of improving the Valley Pass coverage was to lure people from illegal streams.
It would be interesting to see how many fans still use the illegal streams.
A handful of people are complaining about the price of the stream (and then mostly about the picture quality). Most people realise £10 is a bargain for what we are now getting.
We sell, I believe, about 4,000 streams a home game. Suppose that drops to 1,500 when fans allowed back in. That's still £345,000 at current prices. Put the price up, or more people carry on streaming, and you're soon up to a half a million. That's not an insignificant amount of money.
But even when things go back to normal, how many people will be travelling to most of our away games? I'm not talking about local derbies or places like Portsmouth, more like Blackburn. 300 or 400? Streaming gives everyone a chance to see the team play away, not just the few hundred who have the time and the money to do so. Didn't you enjoy watching the MK Dons game the other night - something I couldn't have done if it wasn't streamed.
Yesterday Portsmouth would probably have filled the Jimmy Seed Stand, if streaming was available, would that ever happen.
As somebody who attends all home & away games [in normal circumstances] & have done for most of my life i would have been at MK Dons so would have enjoyed it.
There are people perhaps who would attend a local non-league match when we are away, would they bother if they could stay at home watching a stream.
If fewer away supporters attend matches that would damage the atmosphere & also damage the economy of some towns & cities around the country.
But for every one person who stoped attending (whether one game or completely) they probably need 3/4 people streaming. The fact right now we are only seeing around 4,000 streams must mean the club are losing a considerable sum.
Away attendances will undoubtedly reduce.
That was the strapline for Terminator 2, right?
Anyway, good to debate. Will be interesting to see what happens when things get back to normal. Or as normal as they can.
Take away fans' receipts. Suppose we are at home to Blackburn . They bring 600 paying £25. Revenue to the club £15000.
Stream it. They bring only half that, say 300. But 4000 stream the game at home. So that's 300 x 25 plus 4000 x 10. Revenue to the club £47,500. 3 times as much as not streaming it.
On away fans there is currently a financial split between home and away clubs, plus not sure the club/s usually keep the full £10 anyway? You also miss on the extra sales of food, drinks, programmes etc etc (believe the programmes grosses around £40k which I guess is £25k profit?.
The vast majority of away games I probably spend half as much again in the ground as the ticket price, probably more if my daughters come on concession tickets.
With zero people in the Valley we are seeing only 4,000 stream, that means either people live together (as in my case) or a lot of people aren't bothering to watch matches. As we all know habits are hard to break, I do fear attendances are going to take some rebuilding and giving the option of continual streaming won't help that.
If a home fan pays £25 to attend, if they do not but buy an individual ticket then of course the difference is only £15 if they buy a stream. However many come in groups/families of varying sizes. If I don't go to a match but buy a £10 stream that's likely £80-90 I haven't spent so net £70-80 loss (3 tickets, drinks, food, programmes etc).
I think it's going to be quite complex and as yet the big unknown is the return of fans.
Don’t think it would have been as popular!
As I said, the genies out of the bottle. It will be hard to put it back in. If streaming is stopped in this country, presumably the league will still want to sell those streams abroad as they were doing previously. Then a VPN simply becomes your friend and you just take the stream that way.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Charlton-Athletic-Raise-the-Roof-Season-Review-2000-01-DVD-2001-cert-E/383736081666?epid=44091111&hash=item595873ed02:g:3Y4AAOSwCh5fa301
But drawing national boundaries will always create issues. In a pre-Covid world, I could live in Calais (about 4 hours travel away from The Valley) and legally stream a game, but if I lived in Scotland (about 6 hours away from The Valley), I could not legally stream despite still being in the UK. Somewhat ludicrous when you think about it.
I would be genuinely interested at how abolishing the 3pm blackout and allowing streaming of all games would impact attendances. It might even mean that clubs start treating fans a little bit better to encourage them through the door, some of the facilities and ways fans are treated - particularly at away games - is atrocious, but it’s up until now the only (legal) way you can see your team.