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Shrewsbury v Charlton - Post Match Thread
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I think the general mood is that he has to sort it out or be sacked. That is not the same as calling for him to be sacked. It is a far more reasonable position than that of people saying he has a free hit to fail.8
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I think we need a reality check. Yes the squad we have should be easily good enough to get promoted this season as the other teams are just so poor. Without doubt LB has gone negative in his mindset and that needs to change but all these comments about Albie, jFC and JW being wonderful creative players when have they shown that consistently? maybe LB doesnt think we are good enough to go all out front foot at the moment. Hopefully in January we can get a goalscorer ( Bogle tries but he just isnt ) whatever is going on with MM can get resolved ( I have a feeling there is something not happy in that relationship ) then we may see a change in approach1
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Yeah it’s not exactly controversial to say “if he keeps losing matches to dreadful teams then he should be sacked” is it? That’s different to “calling for his head” which to me suggests people are saying he should be sacked now, and I really don’t think I’ve seen that.MuttleyCAFC said:I think the general mood is that he has to sort it out or be sacked. That is not the same as calling for him to be sacked. It is a far more reasonable position than that of people saying he has a free hit to fail.2 -
Bowyer with the new owners assistance needs a proper striker as the team that played yesterday are not a true promotion team.
but with one or two tweaks and our other injured men back we could still finish top two as we do not want anymore playoffs.
it never ceases to amaze me at the negative comments we get from Certain fans so soon after been top of the inform league.😂😂
with the correct and continued support from Our new owner Thomas, Bowyer will get us back to the championship 👍3 -
Your stats are spot on, but I fear there's something awry with either your perception or your memory. I thought we looked a lot better in those games. I know that things always look rosier in the light of a win or six, but for me there were a few crucial differences in our play then and now: 1. The centre back pairing of Inniss and Famewo allowed us to play out from the back in a way that wasn't totally negative and boring. Whenever we had possession in our own half there was always a good chance that one good incisive pass would set up an attacking move. We may not have been Barcelona, but we weren't playing like a frightened pub side either. 2. Doughty gave us some real pace and movement, his speed and the fact that he could switch sides frightened the opposition whilst our players reacted positively to this. 3. Our other midfielders seemed more competent at passing the ball. There were, I'll grant you, too many miss-placed paces, but these seemed to occur when we got into attacking positions - not all over the pitch. 4. Maatsen looked an absolute revelation, now he looks like either a competent full back or a frustrated winger. He's fantastically skilled, but we cannot expect him to do it all. Let's be honest and say that the performances in the last week or two have not been anywhere near good enough. But in saying that, we shouldn't re-write history.golfaddick said:
Of the 6 game winning run we won 3 of them by the odd goal (two 1-0 wins) and the other 3 by 2 clear goals (all 2-0). In none of those 6 games did we look really any better than the opposition & in none of them did we go behind or concede first, needing to fight & scrap to get back into the game. The team was really only tested against Fleetwood & once they got back to 2-2 it could have been anyone's game until we got the penalty.sirjohnhumphrey said:What does this ‘lost the dressing room’ actually mean? We had a run of games where we won and didn’t concede. We then had a break which coincided with the loss off the two centre backs pivotal to that run.Five points from five games is a poor return. Much like 18 from 6 games is an amazing return. So, what do people think has happened in that time to lose a dressing room?Bowyer had never been backward about challenging or criticising players. His character is such. But he has built amazing team ethos in the past so I’m not sure how he becomes such a poor man manager in a few weeks.
Like all teams we are having a bad run. We are still sixth and probably have one of the better infrastructures to build on in January.Cullen, Gallacher, Field; all players from bigger and more successful clubs all eulogise over him. Let’s not look for anything other than this being a blip.3 -
Could you explain in a bit of detail, what is actually going on re "the dressing room atmosphere", as it's so bad you want Bowyer sacked?mattinfinland said:If Thomas came out and sacked Bowyer, would people back that?
I think I would. That's not to say I'm not greatful for everything Bowyer has done but prehaps it's soon time for a change because the dressing room atmosphere is a cause for concern and Bowyer dosnt know how to kill a game off without going park the bus mode.
Also who gave you this information about who is doing/saying what to whom in the dressing room etc.
Thanks.0 -
Are our team bad League 1 players ?
No they are not.
These are the same players that won 6 games in a row and didn't concede a goal.
Other than the beast Inniss.
In retrospect was beating the best two teams in the Championship, Leeds and Brentford( they bottled promotion) at the valley by being ultra defensive 1-0, now set in Lee Bowyer's DNA ?
I/we gave Lee Bowyer a get out of jail free card for the injuries and chancers he had to put up with last season. 2 points in 18 in last 6 games by being cautious was agony to watch. (Mitigating circumstances)
A clean slate for Lee Bowyer under Thomas Sandgaard who is a winner in his business life and wants to be a winner in his Expensive hobby.
The Bar has been raised for Bowyer and that's how it should be.
Like Muttley said, no comparisons calling the shots in grass roots football and Professional football But as I said to the parents of my team I coached and managed. I will take the critism when we lose not the kids. But after the kids I want some praise for deciding tactics and subs when we win.
Or in my case not making any subs when we were 1 nil up against the strong favourites in a semi final ! We won and i still took stick from the kids parents who got no minutes. (Eleven parents thought I was Alex Ferguson)That was a total No No, when you have roll on roll off subs but I couldn't release our grip on the game.
Lee Bowyer will have to get the big calls right; Whether it's parents or fans in your ear it's a results business.
I want Lee Bowyer to be a success. It's not our call, we are only supporters. Thomas Sandgaard will judge Lee on public opinion and points. We have hit a bump in the road but we are in the top 6.
To attack or not to attack, that is the question. Successful game management must be the mantra; Composure and a clear head for players and manager.
Interesting times in our journey; Still feel gutted about yesterday.
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MuttleyCAFC said:We don't need him to explain his tactics, we just need to see his tactics working.
Agree But for 7 straight matches our defence was stronger than a nun with a charity belt, which no one could unlock.
Other than Ipswich who struggled after a couple of injuries during the match we have stumbled since the last international break.0 -
We really buggered up our momentum with that international break. I said at the time but I thought we should have played the match (think it was against Rochdale) as even absent 3 or 4 players the benefit in maintaining momentum, and avoiding fixture pile up later in the season, would have been worth it.soapboxsam said:MuttleyCAFC said:We don't need him to explain his tactics, we just need to see his tactics working.
Agree But for 7 straight matches our defence was stronger than a nun with a charity belt, which no one could unlock.
Other than Ipswich who struggled after a couple of injuries during the match we have stumbled since the last international break.0 -
For what it's worth, I have faith in Lee Bowyer and back him to get it right soon enough. The squad lacks pace, but we shouldn't underestimate the restrictions he had to deal with during the summer window.7
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I'm not fuming anymore . Looking at the positives, Amos is in great form , we have 2 centre backs and we have a week off . Wimbledon is a big game now , but I think we will bounce back .2
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Thinking a bit more about this and looking at the other threads. Bowyer does seem to be reacting to some sort of pressure, either imagined or actual. Pre-TS it was only him. No one else really to be accountable to. But now our owner has been positive and has started to put a real team together. Background individuals with solid experience. Specifically I'm thinking of the appointments of Roddy and Mumford. Maybe Lee is sensing that and he's feeling the pressure.
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I bloody hope not. Public opinion never won anything in football. It generally just causes completely unnecessary stress and drama.soapboxsam said:
I want Lee Bowyer to be a success. It's not our call, we are only supporters. Thomas Sandgaard will judge Lee on public opinion and points. We have hit a bump in the road but we are in the top 6.3 -
PragueAddick said:
I bloody hope not. Public opinion never won anything in football. It generally just causes completely unnecessary stress and drama.soapboxsam said:
I want Lee Bowyer to be a success. It's not our call, we are only supporters. Thomas Sandgaard will judge Lee on public opinion and points. We have hit a bump in the road but we are in the top 6.
Charlton public opinion will be in the mix.
Not just the armchair fans(most of us are now unfortunately)and the fans who normally go to games but Thomas Sandgaard wouldn't be impressed with Lee's criticism of the 2k crowd. Digging out your Players in public is problematical but I agree on highlighting the gift wrapped goals we gave to Burton.
In America, sport is always about entertainment and winning. Recently cafc have stopped winning and entertaining is thin on the ground. Never a good combo.
In England we want to win, but mainly at least play in a way you create chances.
Playing defensive against Leeds and Brentford at home in the Championship is one thing but deciding to reverse against Shrewsbury when 1 nil up with 23 minutes (added time included)to go isn't the way forward.
No VAR needed but Bowyer needs to keep the players on side, as well as the diverse opinions of the cafc fan base.
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I don't agree pal, I feel he owes us a shit load for the last 5 games of last season.soapy_jones said:Bowyer has a lot in his account with us and rightly so.
It will be interesting to see how he performs under a bit of fan pressure and with a serious owner breathing down his neck. Is he the sort of character who will thrive, or will he say "fuck it"? At the moment he is saleable elsewhere if he fancy's it, but I assume he is a comparatively rich man with options outside of the game.
Still fuming over performances, but he has me behind him if he shows a bit of adventure, it's division 3 FFS!1 -
Purposely stayed off here the last 24 hours, I knew how it would be and haven’t read anything.
One thing I do know is that we desperately lack any kind of pace. No Doughty and no Smyth and we have no one who is actually quick. It makes me think that do we play Maatsen higher up the pitch from the start, he is really the only one at the moment who is able to take a player on with a bit of speed.
Our next 3 games are huge. Teams around us are playing one another and we have 2 home games coming up in quick succession.
Listening/watching Liverpool at the moment, if anyone dares to say they can’t make an atmosphere at The Valley for X, Y, or Z, you’re lying.We need at least 7 points from the next 3 and that will keep us top 6 heading into Christmas.
I really hope Bowyer and Gallen have identified that we need to sign someone with pace, because we are so predictable and static without it, without Doughty especially. But we have to find a way to get passed that. We have footballers, players who can play, so why have we abandoned that of late?
It’s time we stick together because it was only a month ago we won 6 on the spin and hadn’t conceded in 8 games or however long.
It’s poor at the moment and Bowyer is not immune to criticism. But anything more than that and give your head a wobble.
A full week of training and hopefully they have a meeting and work things out, find out what’s happening and what needs work. Then put it to bed, and work on it.
I don’t think we will see as poor performances as we have seen over the last 2-3 weeks now. We move on from here.18 -
Heat map shows one thing.......we weren't in their box as much we were in ours. In fact it looks like we didn't get in their box much at all. And the also look at the final passing map. Hardly any successful passes in their box either. Playing the team that would have gone bottom if we had won. You don't need coaching badges or to be an ex-Premier League player to work that one out.stackitsteve said:4 -
Actual amount of passes from players was a lot lower than usual. Watson and Pratley pass completion of 90.9% and 87.9% is superb though.1
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Yh they were outstanding.stoneroses19 said:Actual amount of passes from players was a lot lower than usual. Watson and Pratley pass completion of 90.9% and 87.9% is superb though.4 - Sponsored links:
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But dig out two players who play 30minutes, joker.golfaddick said:
Heat map shows one thing.......we weren't in their box as much we were in ours. In fact it looks like we didn't get in their box much at all. And the also look at the final passing map. Hardly any successful passes in their box either. Playing the team that would have gone bottom if we had won. You don't need coaching badges or to be an ex-Premier League player to work that one out.stackitsteve said:0 -
Honestly you can’t have watched the game. A defensive central midfielder should occasionally drive forward or try to skip a challenge. Just like Cullen did. Watson’s flat passing quite often straight to the player who passes to him results in the other player having to clear his lines and lose the ball. (Quite often this happens to Gunter). So whilst his stats might look good it’s actually not helping the team.stoneroses19 said:Actual amount of passes from players was a lot lower than usual. Watson and Pratley pass completion of 90.9% and 87.9% is superb though.3 -
This forum is so toxic right now4
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The scousers are all in the Kop. Don't get why we can't all be in the covered end, both tiers, and socially distanced. Would make a much better atmosphere.Sage said:Purposely stayed off here the last 24 hours, I knew how it would be and haven’t read anything.
One thing I do know is that we desperately lack any kind of pace. No Doughty and no Smyth and we have no one who is actually quick. It makes me think that do we play Maatsen higher up the pitch from the start, he is really the only one at the moment who is able to take a player on with a bit of speed.
Our next 3 games are huge. Teams around us are playing on another and we have 2 home games coming up in quick succession.
Listening/watching to Liverpool at the moment, if anyone dares to say they can’t make an atmosphere at The Valley for X, Y, or Z, you’re lying.We need at least 7 points from the next 3 and that will keep us top 6 heading into Christmas.
I really hope Bowyer and Gallen have identified that we need to sign someone with pace, because we are so predictable and static without it, without Doughty especially. But we have to find a way to get passed that. We have footballers, players who can play, so why have we abandoned that of late?
It’s time we stick together because it was only a month ago we won 6 on the spin and hadn’t conceded in 8 games or however long.
It’s poor at the moment and Bowyer is not immune to criticism. But anything more than that and give your head a wobble.
A full week of training and hopefully they have a meeting and work things out, find out what’s happening and what needs work. Then put it to bed, and work on it.
I don’t think we will see as poor performances as we have send over the last 2-3 weeks now. We move on from here.
Or stick a load in the Jimmy Seed. Guaranteed noise, and the kiosks are outside so could even open them.5 -
If you read my post, I clearly only mention stats, didn’t say anything about it helping the team or not. Enough has been said about how poor the players were yesterday, so excuse me for enjoying looking at the newly posted pass map and taking some positives from it.AndyHuntUpFront said:
Honestly you can’t have watched the game. A defensive central midfielder should occasionally drive forward or try to skip a challenge. Just like Cullen did. Watson’s flat passing quite often straight to the player who passes to him results in the other player having to clear his lines and lose the ball. (Quite often this happens to Gunter). So whilst his stats might look good it’s actually not helping the team.stoneroses19 said:Actual amount of passes from players was a lot lower than usual. Watson and Pratley pass completion of 90.9% and 87.9% is superb though.0 -
Looking at the heat map, Bogle had a 100% pass completion.
He was on the pitch 25 minutes, made as many as 4 successful passes, one of which started the move from which we scored.
Yep, 100% pass completion rate. 4 good passes. Yes, only 4 ...... but the stats 'prove' he didn't put a foot wrong.
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@SAGE At the beginning of October I highlighted how I felt that it was wrong for LB to have publicly singled out players for criticism and used Bonne as an example. Since then he has also now done the same to Bogle, Williams, Morgan and Maddison.Sage said:Purposely stayed off here the last 24 hours, I knew how it would be and haven’t read anything.
One thing I do know is that we desperately lack any kind of pace. No Doughty and no Smyth and we have no one who is actually quick. It makes me think that do we play Maatsen higher up the pitch from the start, he is really the only one at the moment who is able to take a player on with a bit of speed.
Our next 3 games are huge. Teams around us are playing one another and we have 2 home games coming up in quick succession.
Listening/watching Liverpool at the moment, if anyone dares to say they can’t make an atmosphere at The Valley for X, Y, or Z, you’re lying.We need at least 7 points from the next 3 and that will keep us top 6 heading into Christmas.
I really hope Bowyer and Gallen have identified that we need to sign someone with pace, because we are so predictable and static without it, without Doughty especially. But we have to find a way to get passed that. We have footballers, players who can play, so why have we abandoned that of late?
It’s time we stick together because it was only a month ago we won 6 on the spin and hadn’t conceded in 8 games or however long.
It’s poor at the moment and Bowyer is not immune to criticism. But anything more than that and give your head a wobble.
A full week of training and hopefully they have a meeting and work things out, find out what’s happening and what needs work. Then put it to bed, and work on it.
I don’t think we will see as poor performances as we have seen over the last 2-3 weeks now. We move on from here.
Do you now agree that LB does do this and that this can be counter productive?1 -
Right the honeymoon is over , I’ve worn rose tinted glasses since my lover TS came in to town and swept me off my feet and stole me from SCP but enough is enough the glasses are off , we are fucking shit , completely lame and I don’t think the players we have should be as poor as the performances we are getting .Shrewsbury definitely have more chance of going down than we have of going up , they were appalling waiting to get beat, yet we were so impotent as usual and managed a draw ffsI had thought the results were definitely better than the performances in that winning run and wrongfully assumed we would improve the more the new squad got to know and train with each other , completely wrong, we have gone backwards alarmingly, the longer they’ve gotten to know each other and that is not right , something badly wrong is happening.
luckily for us it is a shit league and the January window may help us but I’m resigned to play offs at best , come on Lee get your act together and at least try and play with a bit more attacking intent .
in Thomas I trust .2 % Automatic promotion49% Play offs49% 7th-12th14 -
Stability and patience is required Rambo.blackpool72 said:
Totally agree.clb74 said:
Far from Bowyers biggest fan, tacticts can be boring and negative but heard hardly any moaning when we went on the 8 match unbeaten run.blackpool72 said:
Well actually if Bowyer can't solve the problem soon it just might be.clb74 said:So things have not gone our way for a few games so things are falling apart?
But it's not me and you that call the shots.
With the money he is investing in the club I think Thomas Sandgaard will be expecting nothing less than promotion this season.2 -
Agreed, but a lot are questioning his ability to do the job, and if we don't go up Sandgaard should get rid of him.se9addick said:
Are people actually calling for his head? I don’t think I’ve seen any comments actually suggesting he should be sacked?DA9 said:Honeymoon period for Bowyer definitely over it seems, calls for his head are rash considering what he’s had to deal with, and where we were end of September squad wise before TS came riding in on his big beautiful Danish stead, however, Bowyer is not beyond criticism or fault, those that think he is are equally rash.0
