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Shrewsbury v Charlton - Post Match Thread

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  • I want Bowyer to come out and say we are going to get promoted. Like he did when he started. We can have arguments on here about that being too optimistic, like we did at the time, but the Bowyer of today just wouldn't say it. I think that takes a lot away from a man who can perform near miracles, if he doubts he can anymore.
  • edited December 2020
    ross1 said:
    I think there is too much rotation. I know you cannot allow for injuries, but we will never be successful if we keep changing as many players as LB does. I know we have played a lot of games, but so have other teams and we see other teams playing regular settled teams apart from any injuries. Pearce has said that each section of the team need to be settled so players can get used to those playing near them.
    There were 5 changes to the starting line up last Saturday. Five.

    Sure, we had Pearce & Fam returning from injury, Maatsen back from suspension, plus Aneke's turn to start. And in theory that should have made us a stronger team. But it's nevertheless half the team changed.

    It's not a one off, it's often similarly the case each match. It's no wonder that we are struggling for cohesion and fluency, many players don't get the chance to settle into a rhythm. 

    We know why Bowyer likes rotation  - he tells us it protects those who have been scarred by injury; keeps the players fresh and energised. I get that.
    Most of the squad are guaranteed regular involvement in games, which in theory leads to a happier dressing room but maybe also a little complacency?  Myself, I'm a firm believer in earning the shirt, it gives an edge to a player's performance.

    Bowyer, perhaps, sees the match day squad as 'one team of 18 players', of which any 11 can be on the pitch at the same time?
    And that makes them interchangeable to fit the gameplan.

    Okay, the season is condensed, we need to protect and conserve vulnerable players ...... but surely the nucleus of the team needs to be more settled?


  • I haven't suddenly turned on Bowyer. Up to the last January window I was very supportive as I appreciated the injury crisis was a disaster. I did pick up on a few little things that I thought might be more about him than managing. Things like not selecting enough subs when he could have even if they were U-21 players for experience. Nothing major though and at the time understandable.

    Then I was a bit annoyed with Bowyer at the press conference with Southall when he said that he was having to play Gallagher more than he would like due to injuries. I thought that was incredibly stupid. And he did it again recently saying we have to be careful with Smyth because he is a QPR player!!!!!

    I then started getting frustrated after the resumption after the first lockdown. He seemed to be continuing the ultra negative tactics, which I supported previously, despite having players back and a few additions. It was like he was stuck in this rut. I thought he underplayed Aneke who looked really good every time I saw him (although this may have been on medical advice to be fair).

    Sheff Wednesday was a game where anybody who follows football knows that you attack them and 99 times out of a hundred you beat them when a team is in that sort of rut. Bowyer decided to set up for a draw which was totally wrong for me. Birmingham was his fault and he just seemed to me to be a different personality to the person who took us up.

    Letting Fosu go, who I really rated, seemed like an inflexibility on Bowyer's part and I feel like similar is happening with Williams. He seems to have his favourites and players that get on his nerves. His interviews seem far more negative. Gone is the Bowyer who predicted we would get promoted when he first came in. Despite that always being a challenge. Now he seems to be a manager who underplays things. I saw his interview saying 5 subs wouldn't help us which was ridiculously negative. 

    When we started our Championship campaign, Bowyer was very flexible tactically and this was effective. Now he seems stuck in a rut of playing the same way even when he doesn't have the personnel or it clearly isn't working.

    Not one thing in isolation, but a number of things, some of them small that pile on top of each other that take me from viewing him as a potentially great manager, to now looking at a frustratingly negative manager. If I didn't see a different man when he took over I would imagine that is him. But something has definitely changed. Maybe understandably with all he has had to deal with, but he is not the same manager I was so excited about. 

    Publicly making scapegoats of players and even the fans is clearly a no no. Even if his anger with them is deserved, you don't do it in public. It is like him saying, it isn't me, it is him or it is them. Then saying we played well when we clearly didn't. It is weird.

    I am for giving him a bit more time, but I find myself in the strange position of knowing that if he walked out tomorrow, I wouldn't be all that disappointed. My preference is to get the old Bowyer back. It must still be in there somewhere.
    I think think the middle of last season took something out of Bowyer. The injury crisis in the autumn, the shambles of the ESI takeover and transfer embargo, the shiftiness of Southall, it engendered a negative attitude. 

    After beating Luton 3-1 on the 22nd February, in the next 12 matches we only scored more than 1 goal ONCE. You're relying on clean sheet to get any wins, which is putting massive pressure on the defence. On Saturday we were once again clinging on for the 3 points.


  • Sometimes, when things come to a head it allows matters to get sorted. I genuinely hope Bowyer sorts things out. It isn't so much the results, but the tactics and his public utterings. 

    I think he has changed, but that doesn't mean he won't or can't change back. But we do have to be honest and criticising players and hauling them off is not going to be reaction free. If you start losing the dressing room, it is not easy to get it back.

    One thing when we got promoted was how everybody was pulling in the same direction (and I mean playing wise).
  • Come on guys don't give up on Lee yet
  • If you look at what is being said on here and other social media channels I think it is plain to see that pretty much all fans want to see us far more on the front foot. I hope LB is starting to think that as well and gets his mojo back soon. I personally would rather lose going forward than keep watching the negative shite we are getting at the moment. If 1-0 victories were exiting I would be an Arsenal fan now. Apart from the obvious few there are no teams that are going to score a few goals against our defense however we play and keep sitting back after getting a lead is just stupid
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  • "
    For a long time Charlton became the team that panicked, invited pressure and conceded sickening late winners/equalisers to the point it became predictable. When Bowyer came in he transformed that and we, for once, were the ones scoring the late winners with a team that had a never say die attitude.
    "

    Great comment! I remember being gobamacked with some of our comebacks, as was just used to the oppisite for years. Really felt like getting our Charlton back and an actual competive team. 

    @golfaddick has highlighted quite well, our inability to get back into a game (from losing position) and win it it from there.
  • We started the Championship season strong and Bowyer himself said we would surprise a few teams. I remember the Notts Forest game when we were like a dream team. That team was a reflection of what we had seen from Bowyer since he had become our manager. Positive and forward thinking from both him and the teams he put out. And then it started to unravel. I know the injuries were a big part of that and then Gallagher’s loan was recalled but that’s all part of the game. I don’t know why he now seems to be stuck in this negative approach but it’s certainly influencing his decisions. 
  • edited December 2020
    Rob said:
    We started the Championship season strong and Bowyer himself said we would surprise a few teams. I remember the Notts Forest game when we were like a dream team. That team was a reflection of what we had seen from Bowyer since he had become our manager. Positive and forward thinking from both him and the teams he put out. And then it started to unravel. I know the injuries were a big part of that and then Gallagher’s loan was recalled but that’s all part of the game. I don’t know why he now seems to be stuck in this negative approach but it’s certainly influencing his decisions. 
     I believe he wants us to not concede and nick a goal or two.

    He knows what we have is less impressive than what we had in terms of players.

    I would quite like to see him turn it around, but that won't happen by publicly attacking players for mistakes and poor decisions.
  • CAFCOlly said:
    I want Bowyer to come out and say we are going to get promoted. Like he did when he started. We can have arguments on here about that being too optimistic, like we did at the time, but the Bowyer of today just wouldn't say it. I think that takes a lot away from a man who can perform near miracles, if he doubts he can anymore.
    Agree with much of what you’ve said in your posts. 

    Bowyer’s reluctance in coming out with enthusiastic promotion predictions like in 18/19 may just be that this group of players isn’t as strong and he knows that. 

    Our 18/19 squad with Taylor, Bielik, Cullen, Aribo, Grant (for 1/2 season), Bauer and Phillips as the core should’ve, in retrospect, probably gone up automatically. Having those players at your disposal would make any manager in League One confident of promotion.

    For a long time Charlton became the team that panicked, invited pressure and conceded sickening late winners/equalisers to the point it became predictable. When Bowyer came in he transformed that and we, for once, were the ones scoring the late winners with a team that had a never say die attitude.

    For a while now, performance wise it’s felt a little more like the time before Bowyer came in, and I definitely agree that something has changed since the onslaught of injuries last season and the off the field sh*t he’s had to endure. He’s shown that he can do it before and I really hope he does it again. Whilst he should not be immune to discussion/criticism, he 100% deserves some more time to build some momentum again like he’s shown he can.

    100% about the promotion team being good enough for automatic. I felt our main issue was depth. Whereas there seems to be more depth now, the quality is a little bit less. But I don't think we are too bad in that respect. 

    I recall the season before that, when he took over, he was making these claims too when the team was less strong. It was a real positivity and it got us to the play offs even if we did end up getting knocked out by Shrewsbury.
  • edited December 2020
    If we had kept Grant for the season, we would have got automatic as in the first half of the season the main problem was left back, which Purrington solved in January

    We were very close to Barnsley by the end
    We had that run of games in February... Fleetwood | Southend | Blackpoool where we got two points

    If we hadnt lost Taylor to that stupid suspension against Accrington for two of those games OR if we'd kept Grant then four points from those three games would have seen us above Barnsley
  • If we had kept Grant for the season, we would have got automatic as in the first half of the season the main problem was left back, which Purrington solved in January

    We were very close to Barnsley by the end
    We had that run of games in February... Fleetwood | Southend | Blackpoool where we got two points

    If we hadnt lost Taylor to that stupid suspension against Accrington for two of those games OR if we'd kept Grant then four points from those three games would have seen us above Barnsley
    And miss out on Wembley.


  • Oggy Red said:
    If we had kept Grant for the season, we would have got automatic as in the first half of the season the main problem was left back, which Purrington solved in January

    We were very close to Barnsley by the end
    We had that run of games in February... Fleetwood | Southend | Blackpoool where we got two points

    If we hadnt lost Taylor to that stupid suspension against Accrington for two of those games OR if we'd kept Grant then four points from those three games would have seen us above Barnsley
    And miss out on Wembley.
    Oh no, what a shame... I'd get about 10-years of my life back if we'd gone up automatically ;)
  • Oggy Red said:
    If we had kept Grant for the season, we would have got automatic as in the first half of the season the main problem was left back, which Purrington solved in January

    We were very close to Barnsley by the end
    We had that run of games in February... Fleetwood | Southend | Blackpoool where we got two points

    If we hadnt lost Taylor to that stupid suspension against Accrington for two of those games OR if we'd kept Grant then four points from those three games would have seen us above Barnsley
    And miss out on Wembley.
    Oh no, what a shame... I'd get about 10-years of my life back if we'd gone up automatically ;)
    But that feeling of winning and scoring all 3 goals in a 2-1 win over Sunderland... What could be better?

    That was a special day, a special feeling and was meant to be the first goal achieved on the Special Journey... Whatever happened to the special journey?
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  • Bowyer needs to find a way of playing that will get the best out of our ball players, ones who are technically good on the ball and create chances from there. Right now, we need Maatsen higher up the pitch than he is as he seems to be the only player capable of beating a man with a bit of pace.

    I wouldn't be disappointed to see a team playing 3-5-2, but the 3 in the midfield needs to have at least one capable of getting forward and scoring. It's tough, and who do you leave out? But maybe something like this wouldn't be a bad idea..?

    Amos
    Gunter | Pearce | Famewo
    Matthews | Morgan | Watson | Gilbey | Maatsen
    Aneke | Washington

    Maynard-Brewer, Purrington, Pratley, Shinnie, Williams, Maddison, Bogle
  • Gilbey gets nowhere near our first-choice side imo. Replace him with pretty much any of the outfield substitutes. I'd go with Maddison because why the hell not tbh, but any of them. 

    I also want to see Aneke and Bogle start a game together
  • edited December 2020
    Leuth said:
    Gilbey gets nowhere near our first-choice side imo. Replace him with pretty much any of the outfield substitutes. I'd go with Maddison because why the hell not tbh, but any of them. 

    I also want to see Aneke and Bogle start a game together
    Maddison could then play behind the front two and have it as a 3-4-1-2 formation or even out on the right, Washington on the left and it's then a 3-4-3/5-2-3 formation.

    I get the appeal of starting both Aneke and Bogle together, I just worry that if we did, we would just resort to constant route one football and bypass the midfield completely. 
  • Sage said:
    Leuth said:
    Gilbey gets nowhere near our first-choice side imo. Replace him with pretty much any of the outfield substitutes. I'd go with Maddison because why the hell not tbh, but any of them. 

    I also want to see Aneke and Bogle start a game together
    Maddison could then play behind the front two and have it as a 3-4-1-2 formation or even out on the right, Washington on the left and it's then a 3-4-3/5-2-3 formation.

    I get the appeal of starting both Aneke and Bogle together, I just worry that if we did, we would just resort to constant route one football and bypass the midfield completely. 
    On current selection/form I'm not sure that's much of a loss honestly... :)
  • I think we would probably do that, but it is a tactic. It could be a plan B to resort to within a game. But it is surely worth looking at.
  • I get the feeling Bows would probably have played the 3-5-2 if we had the defenders fit for it - and I quite like the look of the team you've put down there Sage. Every game currently we are losing out on the midfield battle so that's what I would address. 

    How do you feel going a bit Robinson esque and playing a 4-5-1 with the current maybe fit players? 

                         Amos
    Gunter Famewo Pearce Maatsen
                 Watson Pratley
       Maddison Williams Symth
                        Aneke

    Something like that. 
  • edited December 2020
    Go Foozball style

    Amos

    Famewo - Pearce

    Gunter - Shinnie - Pratson - Morgan - Maatsen

    Maddison - Aneke - Williams

  • If we had kept Grant for the season, we would have got automatic as in the first half of the season the main problem was left back, which Purrington solved in January

    We were very close to Barnsley by the endWe had that run of games in February... Fleetwood | Southend | Blackpoool where we got two points


    If we hadnt lost Taylor to that stupid suspension against Accrington for two of those games OR if we'd kept Grant then four points from those three games would have seen us above Barnsley
    and this is a similar problem today  .. despite the better quality squad we had that season, we were still far too dependant on Taylor who was a master goal poacher for us and his ability covered up a lot of weaknesses, especially in attack ..
    now there is no Taylor equivalent and despite a fairly good start earlier to the season, cracks are starting to show and I fear that this has forced Bowyer into an even more defensive mindset and his bickering about the fans and his players is a symptom of a bit of stress and panic.

     With all the 'viewing and analytical' technology nowadays, we might well have been sussed out by oppositions as a team which is too keen on aimless passing across and back and with little idea of how to assert themselves in attack and as a team short on confidence .

    We now know that there are no easy games anywhere nowadays and we need to get in an attacking mindset and start once again to play with some flair, swagger and confidence. Perhaps an assurance from Sandy that his job is safe for (say) a year minimum, will allow Bowyer to loosen up and to get his players in the right frame of mind
  • I get the feeling Bows would probably have played the 3-5-2 if we had the defenders fit for it - and I quite like the look of the team you've put down there Sage. Every game currently we are losing out on the midfield battle so that's what I would address. 

    How do you feel going a bit Robinson esque and playing a 4-5-1 with the current maybe fit players? 

                         Amos
    Gunter Famewo Pearce Maatsen
                 Watson Pratley
       Maddison Williams Symth
                        Aneke

    Something like that. 
    We finished MKD playing 4231, with Maddison, Williams and Washington behind Aneke
  • I get the feeling Bows would probably have played the 3-5-2 if we had the defenders fit for it - and I quite like the look of the team you've put down there Sage. Every game currently we are losing out on the midfield battle so that's what I would address. 

    How do you feel going a bit Robinson esque and playing a 4-5-1 with the current maybe fit players? 

                         Amos
    Gunter Famewo Pearce Maatsen
                 Watson Pratley
       Maddison Williams Symth
                        Aneke

    Something like that. 
    We finished MKD playing 4231, with Maddison, Williams and Washington behind Aneke
    I thought that was more of a 4-3-3? At least we looked like creating a little through Maddison either way though.

    Shame MK Dons still managed to waltz through our midfield. 
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