Mrs Stig just played the Herman's Hermits song. For a second I thought about joining in with the Charlton lyrics. I couldn't though, it seemed as inappropriate as singing 'Congratulations' at a funeral.
I'd like to see Bowyer apologise to Williams. He didn't deserve that treatment and it takes a man to admit he acted wrongly. I think it will help morale too to put this behind us.
But to learn, you have to be open to the idea you might be wrong.
Given that he's never (correct me if I'm wrong) come out and accepted responsibility for a defeat or poor result I'd say that's highly unlikely.
He has at least once. Huddersfield 4-0 defeat earlier this year.
👍 Fair enough, thanks. I still think it's unusual he doesn't do it more often. So many managers do it just to take some heat off the players at times but if anything he piles more heat on individuals.
What does this ‘lost the dressing room’ actually mean? We had a run of games where we won and didn’t concede. We then had a break which coincided with the loss off the two centre backs pivotal to that run.
Five points from five games is a poor return. Much like 18 from 6 games is an amazing return. So, what do people think has happened in that time to lose a dressing room?
Bowyer had never been backward about challenging or criticising players. His character is such. But he has built amazing team ethos in the past so I’m not sure how he becomes such a poor man manager in a few weeks.
Like all teams we are having a bad run. We are still sixth and probably have one of the better infrastructures to build on in January.
Cullen, Gallacher, Field; all players from bigger and more successful clubs all eulogise over him. Let’s not look for anything other than this being a blip.
What does this ‘lost the dressing room’ actually mean? We had a run of games where we won and didn’t concede. We then had a break which coincided with the loss off the two centre backs pivotal to that run.
Five points from five games is a poor return. Much like 18 from 18 is an amazing return. So, what do people think has happened in that time to lose a dressing room?
Bowyer had never been backward about challenging or criticising players. His character is such. But he has built amazing team ethos in the past so I’m not sure how he becomes such a poor man manager in a few weeks.
Like all teams we are having a bad run. We are still sixth and probably have one of the better infrastructures to build on in January.
Cullen, Gallacher, Field; all players from bigger and more successful clubs all eulogise over him. Let’s not look for anything other than this being a blip.
One thing it is hard to do is please all of your players. There is always a lot of gossip that goes on behind a managers back at all levels but if the team is doing well it keeps a lid on it. Obviously personalities is also a factor in this.
When things go not so well, it doesn't take long for players who may be unhappy to be more confident in moaning and sharing grievances with each other. Calling players out the way Bowyer has done is a sure way to cause dressing room unrest. And an unwillingness to take any blame himself will add to that.
I think this is very likely to be happening and depending on what level it is, Bowyer will certainly need to change, or start winning. Winning shuts people up. Including us!
If players can't take being singled out or publicly criticised then they need to be more resilient.
Or should it only be one way traffic i.e. managers can only publicly praise and laud players when they put in a blinder or do something great in a game?
Seems to be a modern phenomenon where every body needs to be wrapped up in cotton wool and sheltered from any form of criticism because they're young or not a tackler or whatever
They are grown men who do a job the vast majority of us would love to do and get paid handsomely for it.
I make Bowyer bang on for pulling players up for jumping out of the ways of tackles and hoofing balls in the air in panic representative of u11s park football.
If players don't have the mental resilience to deal with such criticism and only expect to be praised or spoken to behind closed doors then what has the game come to.
Bowyer is only expressing what I and I suspect many fans thought when he saw what happened and saw them capitulate to throw away 2 points
The right set of players will roll their sleeves up now and kick on and learn from the public bollocking.
I really don't get the mentality that players are so precious that they cannot be publicly held to account for poor performance in the same way they are rightly lauded for good performances.
He's not slagging them off as people and he will laud them when they play well so it is swings and roundabouts.
Perhaps thats's where managers like Bowyer and Roy Keane struggle...i.e. they see things that they wouldn't see as acceptable or would be expected to get the hairdryer treatment for doing in their playing days and translate it into their management style.
With him on this one even though I may be wrong and in the minority.
That's not how you manage players, or even normal people, though. Some players will respond to that, some need an arm around them and reassurance. Mastering how you treat each individual is what makes you a good manager.
The team lacks serious pace and is too easy to play against. Pratley, Watson and Gilbey don’t have the pace to transition when we need to break teams down. Gunter has little amount of pace down the right.
Let’s see what happens in January but Bowyer need to adapt if he wants to remain in charge
If players can't take being singled out or publicly criticised then they need to be more resilient.
Or should it only be one way traffic i.e. managers can only publicly praise and laud players when they put in a blinder or do something great in a game?
Seems to be a modern phenomenon where every body needs to be wrapped up in cotton wool and sheltered from any form of criticism because they're young or not a tackler or whatever
They are grown men who do a job the vast majority of us would love to do and get paid handsomely for it.
I make Bowyer bang on for pulling players up for jumping out of the ways of tackles and hoofing balls in the air in panic representative of u11s park football.
If players don't have the mental resilience to deal with such criticism and only expect to be praised or spoken to behind closed doors then what has the game come to.
Bowyer is only expressing what I and I suspect many fans thought when he saw what happened and saw them capitulate to throw away 2 points
The right set of players will roll their sleeves up now and kick on and learn from the public bollocking.
I really don't get the mentality that players are so precious that they cannot be publicly held to account for poor performance in the same way they are rightly lauded for good performances.
He's not slagging them off as people and he will laud them when they play well so it is swings and roundabouts.
Perhaps thats's where managers like Bowyer and Roy Keane struggle...i.e. they see things that they wouldn't see as acceptable or would be expected to get the hairdryer treatment for doing in their playing days and translate it into their management style.
With him on this one even though I may be wrong and in the minority.
That's not how you manage players, or even normal people, though. Some players will respond to that, some need an arm around them and reassurance. Mastering how you treat each individual is what makes you a good manager.
Agreed
I wouldn't want to be bollocked by my boss in the middle of the office, it should be done in private
The team does lack pace, but a lot of League One teams do. What we have to do is accept that we are one of the big fishes in this league. What that means for us is a lot of teams will base their tactics around stopping us playing. We have shown that we have difficulty dealing with that. Some would say teams have found us out a bit.
When you go to Pompey or Ipswich, they are expected to beat you, fairly or unfairly, and they focus on themselves more than you. And when we go to them, we are allowed to try to stop them. Bowyer tried to do this to Shrewsbury today and it nearly worked but we have to question where we are if we need to play this way to beat Shrewsbury. Until we went ahead, they didn't do too much (neither did we) but then we tried to close out the game. We are just not good at this and when a team opens up and goes for it, we don't have the confidence to react and actually try to catch them out.
Bowyer clearly subbed Williams in a fit of temper, but it was an error as it not only sent a message to them that we were going to try and survive on the ropes, but it sent the same message to our players. This was the second from bottom team and Burton the other week were bottom.
If you are lacking in one attribute, you surely try to find other ways. I have been banging on about trying Bogle and Aneke together and it may not work, but seeing as a manager has to find solutions to problems, I just can't understanding Bowyer's reluctance to try this. That is one thing. But issues need answering and all Bowyer does is plays the same way, changing the personnel every game. He has a week to actually talk to people around him and find some answers. If he can't he should walk away.
I really do think it’s the formation/tactics rather than the players. Take Watson out(who really should be playing Vets football - his legs have clearly gone. Gone even to play as the holding midfielder. That’s not a Jackson type comment who was a different player!). Gilbey obviously has some talent but he’s not a left midfielder. Pratley is not meant to play any other role other than the holding role at his age. And Morgan and Maddison are played so far out right and deep that they can’t affect the game from the half way line way out on the right. Washington clearly has pace but has to play every game with his back to goal rather than using his pace out wide running at people. Maatson is our only player with real pace and yet he’s playing left back. Gunter has played as one of the back three for Wales but not in a back two. It’s obviously destroyed his confidence. And for Christ’s sake playing Gunter with Matthews in front of him just does not work. Why for Chucks to get the ball does he need to jump on the halfway line with three players all over him? I think it all starts from Watson. He clearly can’t run with the ball. No point him him being there if he can only play sidewards. Might as well just give it to the centre backs. Someone playing the quarterback role needs variety. He just slows it all down painfully. On a positive note the two centre backs and keeper were very good today. Let’s move Watson out and rebuild from there(ironically Lapslie would have done a much much better job there IMO). Watson is the type of player to bring on to protect a lead. Not the type of player to help you dictate and WIN a game. And FFS regarding Williams. He actually made a difference today. But I want to get behind Bowyer. When we were promoted last we did some place some fantastic football. He deserves the chance to turn it around. But there needs to be some drastic decisons to change the direction we are going on. COYA
Heard an interview last week from Ruud Van Nistelroy and he said Sir Alex best management trait was that he built every player up and never said anything negative about the players or club in public. He had words in private. I recall a few managers I've worked under over the years and those that step out of line with the staff lose the office very quickly and it never repairs in my experience.
I hope Bowyer can turn around this slump but it has gone on for half a dozen games with very poor performances across the team. Maybe we've been found out and other managers know how to set up against us. That is down to good management and luck. We have a dedicated manager, which counts for a lot. The players are not performing. If they aren't careful, Bowyer will be out of a job and they will be shipped out as failures.
This season is at a real crux. Bowyer needs to turn this around within two/three games or our season will be wasted. If there is doubt in Thomas mind in January, he has three options 1) Sack Bowyer and start his business plan all over.
2) Back Bowyer in January and see what he is made of, but then that is Bowyer's job on the line if success isn't immediate.
3) Do a Roland January transfer window - Keep the status quo. Leave Bowyer to manage the squad he has chosen Spend no money, sell anything saleable and see how things go for the rest of the season.
people calling for bowyers head as if we’re not top 6 with a game in hand ffs give your head a check
Look below us at teams with games in hand, more than enough to overtake us and in form to boot. Then look at the gap between us and the top two.
Thats harsh, with games in hand Doncaster (on goal difference) and Accrington can go above us, but we can also jump past 3 teams with our game in hand.
Some players lacked composure at the end today. Bows lacked composure in his interview with Louis. Some on here are saying there’s too much chopping and changing, others are saying Bows always plays the same way and never changes when things aren’t working.
As others have said, it’s Roland and ESI that have left us in this state. We have some good players, unfortunately some of them are injured and some are not fit. We also need to sort out why so many get injured in training.
But we didn’t lose today. We’ve just had a great run and went 6 and a half hours without conceding. Let’s see where we are when McInniss, Smyth, Doughty and Shinnie are back and players like Gilbey and Maddison are fully fit. And we still have the January window and I am sure that Bows and Gallen already have their targets.
Some players lacked composure at the end today. Bows lacked composure in his interview with Louis. Some on here are saying there’s too much chopping and changing, others are saying Bows always plays the same way and never changes when things aren’t working.
As others have said, it’s Roland and ESI that have left us in this state. We have some good players, unfortunately some of them are injured and some are not fit. We also need to sort out why so many get injured in training.
But we didn’t lose today. We’ve just had a great run and went 6 and a half hours without conceding. Let’s see where we are when McInniss, Smyth, Doughty and Shinnie are back and players like Gilbey and Maddison are fully fit. And we still have the January window and I am sure that Bows and Gallen already have their targets.
You can chop and change personnel and keep playing the same way. There isn't the contradiction in what people are saying that you are suggesting there is.
LB under pressure for the first time as Manager at Charlton Dont start the game with Chucks - clearly he is far better coming on later in the game with defenders tiring LB stop digging out your players in public LB go back to being the Manager playing free flowing football like when you first took over Until Alfie is back - play Maatsen as a Wing Back The priority has to be getting a very good striker - if that means shipping out 3 or 4 players for that to happen - so be it
What 3 or 4 players? We have had Henry on the bench for the last two games! We can’t reduce the squad size at the moment
i like bowyer and am thinking there must be a reason for the way he is setting up in games but that needs to become apparent sooner rather than later coz the way he is going about it at the moment makes no sense to me
All we needed to do was play the last 20 minutes in the same manner as the first 70. It wouldn't have been great but it would have stayed solid, and we would have won 1-0 or even 2-0.
Instead we went ultra defensive and we got what we deserved.
It was the manager's fault. I love Bows and I think he's getting over-criticised but I just can't defend the indefensible. He needs to have a rethink.
Yes, the heat of the moment and all that, but Bowyer speaks like a supporter, not a manager, and that will remain our problem even if we bounce with a few passionate wins. We need a cool head who understands tactics to whisper in his ear (and do interviews), and as far as I'm concerned Bow can still stay as a great motivator. A bit like Maradona in that Netflix series as a manager of a 2nd division team in Mexico. They brought him on to the dressing room to fire the team, while the quiet assistant did the all tactics.
(The one time they did let Diego near the white board with the marker is a classic - should be shown at every coaching class👋🤣👋🤣)
For the first time as a manager, Bowyer is feeling the weight of expectation, not only from the fans, but also from the owner and probably the players too. Until now he's had nothing to lose. Caretaker manager, short term contract manager, fighting against the odds of shit owners and having hands tied behind his back with recruitment.
For now, he is exposed to all this expectation and has gone into his shell because he is more used to battling against the odds. As much as the players do from him, he needs an arm around the shoulder from Thomas. He also needs us fans to rally round him. He is a good manager. He transformed Robinson's team overnight into a group hungry for success. Anyone who was at his first game in charge at home to Plymouth can attest to that. Not to mention reaching the play-offs that season then winning them the next. Even better was coming within a hair's breadth of staying up last season despite so many injuries, despite Duchatelet, despite ESI and despite the useless EFL.
We all have a crisis of confidence occasionally. I had one earlier this week over next to nothing. Bows is having one now. He needs our support more than ever.
What does this ‘lost the dressing room’ actually mean? We had a run of games where we won and didn’t concede. We then had a break which coincided with the loss off the two centre backs pivotal to that run.
Five points from five games is a poor return. Much like 18 from 6 games is an amazing return. So, what do people think has happened in that time to lose a dressing room?
Bowyer had never been backward about challenging or criticising players. His character is such. But he has built amazing team ethos in the past so I’m not sure how he becomes such a poor man manager in a few weeks.
Like all teams we are having a bad run. We are still sixth and probably have one of the better infrastructures to build on in January.
Cullen, Gallacher, Field; all players from bigger and more successful clubs all eulogise over him. Let’s not look for anything other than this being a blip.
Of the 6 game winning run we won 3 of them by the odd goal (two 1-0 wins) and the other 3 by 2 clear goals (all 2-0). In none of those 6 games did we look really any better than the opposition & in none of them did we go behind or concede first, needing to fight & scrap to get back into the game. The team was really only tested against Fleetwood & once they got back to 2-2 it could have been anyone's game until we got the penalty.
If we had held out for the win we'd have been in third place, as it is we are still in the play offs. Some people think we have a divine right to be in the Championship, we're in this division for a reason. People questioning whether Bowyer has the right credentials is as ridiculous as thinking Eddie Howe would be interested in joining us.
The buck stops with Bowyer. Certainly not the loyal supporters. This is absolutely atrocious. He does not get a pass this season. He has to go. He is not an experienced manager and looks like he has lost the plot. Take a good look at yourself Bowyer. Do the decent thing and resign now, before Thomas gives you the spanish archer.
Comments
Like all teams we are having a bad run. We are still sixth and probably have one of the better infrastructures to build on in January.
Bowyer blaming the fans and now calling out players.
Feels off.
When things go not so well, it doesn't take long for players who may be unhappy to be more confident in moaning and sharing grievances with each other. Calling players out the way Bowyer has done is a sure way to cause dressing room unrest. And an unwillingness to take any blame himself will add to that.
I think this is very likely to be happening and depending on what level it is, Bowyer will certainly need to change, or start winning. Winning shuts people up. Including us!
I wouldn't want to be bollocked by my boss in the middle of the office, it should be done in private
When you go to Pompey or Ipswich, they are expected to beat you, fairly or unfairly, and they focus on themselves more than you. And when we go to them, we are allowed to try to stop them. Bowyer tried to do this to Shrewsbury today and it nearly worked but we have to question where we are if we need to play this way to beat Shrewsbury. Until we went ahead, they didn't do too much (neither did we) but then we tried to close out the game. We are just not good at this and when a team opens up and goes for it, we don't have the confidence to react and actually try to catch them out.
Bowyer clearly subbed Williams in a fit of temper, but it was an error as it not only sent a message to them that we were going to try and survive on the ropes, but it sent the same message to our players. This was the second from bottom team and Burton the other week were bottom.
If you are lacking in one attribute, you surely try to find other ways. I have been banging on about trying Bogle and Aneke together and it may not work, but seeing as a manager has to find solutions to problems, I just can't understanding Bowyer's reluctance to try this. That is one thing. But issues need answering and all Bowyer does is plays the same way, changing the personnel every game. He has a week to actually talk to people around him and find some answers. If he can't he should walk away.
But I want to get behind Bowyer. When we were promoted last we did some place some fantastic football. He deserves the chance to turn it around. But there needs to be some drastic decisons to change the direction we are going on.
COYA
I hope Bowyer can turn around this slump but it has gone on for half a dozen games with very poor performances across the team. Maybe we've been found out and other managers know how to set up against us. That is down to good management and luck. We have a dedicated manager, which counts for a lot. The players are not performing. If they aren't careful, Bowyer will be out of a job and they will be shipped out as failures.
This season is at a real crux. Bowyer needs to turn this around within two/three games or our season will be wasted. If there is doubt in Thomas mind in January, he has three options
1) Sack Bowyer and start his business plan all over.
2) Back Bowyer in January and see what he is made of, but then that is Bowyer's job on the line if success isn't immediate.
3) Do a Roland January transfer window - Keep the status quo. Leave Bowyer to manage the squad he has chosen Spend no money, sell anything saleable and see how things go for the rest of the season.
As others have said, it’s Roland and ESI that have left us in this state. We have some good players, unfortunately some of them are injured and some are not fit. We also need to sort out why so many get injured in training.
But we didn’t lose today. We’ve just had a great run and went 6 and a half hours without conceding. Let’s see where we are when McInniss, Smyth, Doughty and Shinnie are back and players like Gilbey and Maddison are fully fit. And we still have the January window and I am sure that Bows and Gallen already have their targets.
Instead we went ultra defensive and we got what we deserved.
It was the manager's fault. I love Bows and I think he's getting over-criticised but I just can't defend the indefensible. He needs to have a rethink.
We need a cool head who understands tactics to whisper in his ear (and do interviews), and as far as I'm concerned Bow can still stay as a great motivator.
A bit like Maradona in that Netflix series as a manager of a 2nd division team in Mexico.
They brought him on to the dressing room to fire the team, while the quiet assistant did the all tactics.
(The one time they did let Diego near the white board with the marker is a classic - should be shown at every coaching class👋🤣👋🤣)
Until now he's had nothing to lose. Caretaker manager, short term contract manager, fighting against the odds of shit owners and having hands tied behind his back with recruitment.
For now, he is exposed to all this expectation and has gone into his shell because he is more used to battling against the odds. As much as the players do from him, he needs an arm around the shoulder from Thomas. He also needs us fans to rally round him.
He is a good manager. He transformed Robinson's team overnight into a group hungry for success. Anyone who was at his first game in charge at home to Plymouth can attest to that. Not to mention reaching the play-offs that season then winning them the next. Even better was coming within a hair's breadth of staying up last season despite so many injuries, despite Duchatelet, despite ESI and despite the useless EFL.
We all have a crisis of confidence occasionally. I had one earlier this week over next to nothing. Bows is having one now. He needs our support more than ever.
Some people think we have a divine right to be in the Championship, we're in this division for a reason.
People questioning whether Bowyer has the right credentials is as ridiculous as thinking Eddie Howe would be interested in joining us.