I have heard from someone with contacts that TS has said that there will be a clear-out in the summer and, consequently, many of the players are no longer interested in playing for Charlton knowing that they will be out at the end of the season. That leaves us with the need for 10 points with a disinterested squad...
A - Bowyer has lost the dressing room as suggested by a player to J Block
Or
B - ThE PlAyErS ArEn'T gOoD eNoUgH.
Both. THiS iS A toP TWo SqUAd isn't true either.
I agree. But it should have been a top 6 side at least throughout the season, with a really brilliant manager it could have overachieved to top 2.
I think we needed Doughty, Inniss and Famewo to stay fit to overachieve. No manager gets us up there with Oshilaja and Pearce playing regularly at CB.
To be fair a half decent one might have signed a center half in January?
Even if it ment sending Famewo back, he isn't THAT good that 2 games in 8 weeks means he was worth keeping.
Famewo's return has shown our problems defensively can't be sold just by having a better CB in the team.
Exactly the point I have been making since November, and constantly got told
"but the center halves are both injured"
But it is also a fact if you only have 2 center halves that are Oshilaja and Pearce it's reckless managment not to correct it at the first opportunity. Especially as we have now played about 12 games since the window opened and Inniss and Famewo have played 2 between them. Inniss must also be at least a month (7 games) away from starting?
Lapslie clearly wasn’t good enough though! I’m not sure Morgan is either!
I honestly don’t get that comment. Not good enough for our current team? Please don’t make me laugh. Certainly better than Watson and Pratley. Maybe not good enough for top 2 in the league granted, but way better than what we have.
I have heard from someone with contacts that TS has said that there will be a clear-out in the summer and, consequently, many of the players are no longer interested in playing for Charlton knowing that they will be out at the end of the season. That leaves us with the need for 10 points with a disinterested squad...
Presumably then Lee keeps selecting the ones who are not interested...
My guess is Jaiyesimi. He seems an easy target for Lee to bully.
He should be saying it to Watson and Pratley but there’s no way he will.
Be a man Lee, take the blame.
Edit: apologies I don’t know how to show the body of the tweet.
Oshilaja maybe?
Shinnie
Jaiyesimi lost the ball at the halfway line leading to 0-2. LB blamed the ref for the penalties. If Jaiyesimi didnt backtrack like hell, he is the one having a Tuesday off...?
A - Bowyer has lost the dressing room as suggested by a player to J Block
Or
B - ThE PlAyErS ArEn'T gOoD eNoUgH.
Both. THiS iS A toP TWo SqUAd isn't true either.
I agree. But it should have been a top 6 side at least throughout the season, with a really brilliant manager it could have overachieved to top 2.
I think we needed Doughty, Inniss and Famewo to stay fit to overachieve. No manager gets us up there with Oshilaja and Pearce playing regularly at CB.
To be fair a half decent one might have signed a center half in January?
Even if it ment sending Famewo back, he isn't THAT good that 2 games in 8 weeks means he was worth keeping.
Famewo's return has shown our problems defensively can't be sold just by having a better CB in the team.
Exactly the point I have been making since November, and constantly got told
"but the center halves are both injured"
But it is also a fact if you only have 2 center halves that are Oshilaja and Pearce it's reckless managment not to correct it at the first opportunity. Especially as we have now played about 12 games since the window opened and Inniss and Famewo have played 2 between them. Inniss must also be at least a month (7 games) away from starting?
How do we know they didn't try but just didn't rate any of the options out there? From what Bowyer had said that was the case.
We needed a CB that: - Was affordable under the wage cap - Proven/experienced enough that we could be fairly certain they'd be better than Oshilaja and Pearce - Fit and ready to come straight in to the team - Available to sign - Understood they may be dropped once Inniss and Famewo were fit (which at the time we were hoping would be earlier than it actually turned out)
It's a bit different than signing a winger or striker who you can give time off the bench and rotate a bit more.
Lapslie clearly wasn’t good enough though! I’m not sure Morgan is either!
I honestly don’t get that comment. Not good enough for our current team? Please don’t make me laugh. Certainly better than Watson and Pratley. Maybe not good enough for top 2 in the league granted, but way better than what we have.
Well TS is wasting his own money and everyone’s time if he peruses with bowyer.
When fans go back and if this is still being served up, TS will know first hand what the majority want done.
The comment LB made today about Pratley leaving everything on the pitch and he only wants players that will fight for the club goes to show that he puts commitment above talent but that does make a bit of a mockery of getting shot of Lapslie you couldn't knock his effort. The loyalty to pratley and Watson has gone to far imo if any other player did what pratley did today they would be publicly lambasted by LB
The comment LB made today about Pratley leaving everything on the pitch and he only wants players that will fight for the club goes to show that he puts commitment above talent but that does make a bit of a mockery of getting shot of Lapslie you couldn't knock his effort. The loyalty to pratley and Watson has gone to far imo if any other player did what pratley did today they would be publicly lambasted by LB
Didn’t bowyer say that lapslie was moved on because if the cap?
A - Bowyer has lost the dressing room as suggested by a player to J Block
Or
B - ThE PlAyErS ArEn'T gOoD eNoUgH.
Both. THiS iS A toP TWo SqUAd isn't true either.
I agree. But it should have been a top 6 side at least throughout the season, with a really brilliant manager it could have overachieved to top 2.
I think we needed Doughty, Inniss and Famewo to stay fit to overachieve. No manager gets us up there with Oshilaja and Pearce playing regularly at CB.
To be fair a half decent one might have signed a center half in January?
Even if it ment sending Famewo back, he isn't THAT good that 2 games in 8 weeks means he was worth keeping.
Famewo's return has shown our problems defensively can't be sold just by having a better CB in the team.
Exactly the point I have been making since November, and constantly got told
"but the center halves are both injured"
But it is also a fact if you only have 2 center halves that are Oshilaja and Pearce it's reckless managment not to correct it at the first opportunity. Especially as we have now played about 12 games since the window opened and Inniss and Famewo have played 2 between them. Inniss must also be at least a month (7 games) away from starting?
How do we know they didn't try but just didn't rate any of the options out there? From what Bowyer had said that was the case.
We needed a CB that: - Was affordable under the wage cap - Proven/experienced enough that we could be fairly certain they'd be better than Oshilaja and Pearce - Fit and ready to come straight in to the team - Available to sign - Understood they may be dropped once Inniss and Famewo were fit (which at the time we were hoping would be earlier than it actually turned out)
It's a bit different than signing a winger or striker who you can give time off the bench and rotate a bit more.
Point is that missing a centre half was not the biggest issue. Blind loyalty to two slow and error phone defensive midfielders and not replacing them with someone that could actually protect the centre halves is the issue. We may have even been able to stumble through with Pearce if there was some protection in front!
The comment LB made today about Pratley leaving everything on the pitch and he only wants players that will fight for the club goes to show that he puts commitment above talent but that does make a bit of a mockery of getting shot of Lapslie you couldn't knock his effort. The loyalty to pratley and Watson has gone to far imo if any other player did what pratley did today they would be publicly lambasted by LB
LB has the same limited approach that Keane had as a manager and it won't work with a lot of players. You have to manage different personality types with a flexible approach and not assume everyone has your mindset.
The comment LB made today about Pratley leaving everything on the pitch and he only wants players that will fight for the club goes to show that he puts commitment above talent but that does make a bit of a mockery of getting shot of Lapslie you couldn't knock his effort. The loyalty to pratley and Watson has gone to far imo if any other player did what pratley did today they would be publicly lambasted by LB
Particularly when pratley gets himself sent off like he did today. Was almost like he fancied an early bath. To do what he did with his experience was as bad, probably worse than the pulling out of tackles incidents.
Pratley unfortunately, more games than not, looks like he is more likely to leave the pitch early through a combinations of cards than leave everything on the pitch to the final whistle.
God knows god loves a trier but while he had a good season last season, he’s better against more technical teams.
The comment LB made today about Pratley leaving everything on the pitch and he only wants players that will fight for the club goes to show that he puts commitment above talent but that does make a bit of a mockery of getting shot of Lapslie you couldn't knock his effort. The loyalty to pratley and Watson has gone to far imo if any other player did what pratley did today they would be publicly lambasted by LB
LB has the same limited approach that Keane had as a manager and it won't work with a lot of players. You have to manage different personality types with a flexible approach and not assume everyone has your mindset.
Exactly, and you still see that abrasive attitude and rubbing people up the wrong way when he’s on sky sports. Peas in a pod I’d say.
The comment LB made today about Pratley leaving everything on the pitch and he only wants players that will fight for the club goes to show that he puts commitment above talent but that does make a bit of a mockery of getting shot of Lapslie you couldn't knock his effort. The loyalty to pratley and Watson has gone to far imo if any other player did what pratley did today they would be publicly lambasted by LB
If Morgan did what Pratley did today, I reckon Bowyer would have chinned him as he walked off the pitch. The favouritism is staggering.
A - Bowyer has lost the dressing room as suggested by a player to J Block
Or
B - ThE PlAyErS ArEn'T gOoD eNoUgH.
Both. THiS iS A toP TWo SqUAd isn't true either.
I agree. But it should have been a top 6 side at least throughout the season, with a really brilliant manager it could have overachieved to top 2.
I think we needed Doughty, Inniss and Famewo to stay fit to overachieve. No manager gets us up there with Oshilaja and Pearce playing regularly at CB.
To be fair a half decent one might have signed a center half in January?
Even if it ment sending Famewo back, he isn't THAT good that 2 games in 8 weeks means he was worth keeping.
Famewo's return has shown our problems defensively can't be sold just by having a better CB in the team.
Exactly the point I have been making since November, and constantly got told
"but the center halves are both injured"
But it is also a fact if you only have 2 center halves that are Oshilaja and Pearce it's reckless managment not to correct it at the first opportunity. Especially as we have now played about 12 games since the window opened and Inniss and Famewo have played 2 between them. Inniss must also be at least a month (7 games) away from starting?
How do we know they didn't try but just didn't rate any of the options out there? From what Bowyer had said that was the case.
We needed a CB that: - Was affordable under the wage cap - Proven/experienced enough that we could be fairly certain they'd be better than Oshilaja and Pearce - Fit and ready to come straight in to the team - Available to sign - Understood they may be dropped once Inniss and Famewo were fit (which at the time we were hoping would be earlier than it actually turned out)
It's a bit different than signing a winger or striker who you can give time off the bench and rotate a bit more.
Point is that missing a centre half was not the biggest issue. Blind loyalty to two slow and error phone defensive midfielders and not replacing them with someone that could actually protect the centre halves is the issue. We may have even been able to stumble through with Pearce if there was some protection in front!
Agree on Bowyer having blind loyalty to them.
Don't agree they didn't try to improve on them - Ofoborh was a young DM we tried to bring in but he signed a pre-contract with Rangers and joined Wycombe on loan in the Championship.
I'm sure there are others we don't know about.
The mistake was signing Watson in the first place. Just said on the Watson thread we have too many slow CMs who lack energy. The balance isn't right, some of them would look decent if they had the right type of players around them.
January under a salary cap isn't a great time to be needing to sign quality players to improve the spine of your team. You can get the odd one or two like Stockley and Millar, but it's unlikely you'll bring in 4/5 who can make an immediate impact like they have.
Whoever is for the next few games should take a look in our u23s. Maybe there's a player there like Doughty who just needs a chance. They don't need to be the next Gomez or Shelvey to offer something in this side.
Bowyer is a trade gone wrong , yes it was onside and a good winner at one point , being short Bitcoin at 15k was brilliant when it was 5k but times and prices change .
Some people always get married to bad trades and find them hard to let go , trying to justify in their fucked up heads that it will come right and the price (good times)will come back and every slight move in that direction makes them believe whatever fuckedupness is going through their heads that they are right . well Bitcoin is 46k and doesn’t look like getting below 15k again , so even if it gets to 40k it’s still a wank trade . The hardest thing is taking your losses cos it means you admit your wrong and you can see that on here , many hanging on in the hope that their shit trade will come good . It’s not happening he has to go , get out of that trade and start afresh .
Agree. Hopefully someone is good enough to step up.
However finding a defensive midfielder with legs is a lot easier than finding a 20 goal striker. Long legged Plymouth DCM and even the Gills CM that scored against us are much better than what we’ve got. So even if there was not a player to take the championship by storm I am sure that we could have improved!
The situation is doing the next incumbent a massive favour. There will be a pick up and they’ll get credit and others will highlight how much Bowyer was holding us back.
Sometimes change and fresh starts are needed, even more so in football. It feels like now is in all parties best interests.
Karl Robinson is in no way a bad football manager, but this feels very much like the time when it was in everyone’s best interests for him to move on.
I no people have opinions but seriously the Bowyer in brigade talking about building his team for next season....These players talk amongst themselves and also with mates from other teams,all are probably aware of what’s going on with Bowyer,good & bad...but what player would really want to play for him,if he throws you under the bus then airs all that dirty washing out to the media,it’s almost bullying,why would anyone want that...as for the youngsters,the very same thing,one cock up & you become used abused & jettisoned out of team or at worst moved on,it’s no good for moral or team spirit,so if Lee is still in the hot seat next season who & what will he expect,because if as said it’s his training methods,his rudeness & irresponsible outbursts to his players then no wonder some players were so nearly through the door,yet went elsewhere & some seem quite happy to leave aswell...the caliber of players we need are gonna want respect back & I don’t think Lee has that in him if they don’t live up to his standards,there seems to be no give & take,so for that reason alone,I don’t think its gonna get any better with Bowyer in charge unfortunately,it’s time for change
Agree. Hopefully someone is good enough to step up.
However finding a defensive midfielder with legs is a lot easier than finding a 20 goal striker. Long legged Plymouth DCM and even the Gills CM that scored against us are much better than what we’ve got. So even if there was not a player to take the championship by storm I am sure that we could have improved!
Doesn’t work if their clubs want big money for them though. The Rochdale winger looked good against us and then he ended up signing for Man City. Even if they’re available for us you’re not going to pay £1m+ for a player, give him a 3 or 4 year contract then convince him him to sign on only £2-3k due to the salary cap. They could be earning more than that already and get a better deal in the summer when clubs have more room in their budget (and no cap as it turns out).
On Quest they mentioned the pressure on Bowyer, so the wider football world is well aware that we're underperforming
Ally Maxwell noted the defensive record at home (9 games conceding 2 a game) but also thought Bowyer's demeanour and post match interviews over the last few months weren't helping getting the players in the right frame of mind
But net result is that this has wasted this season. We went out on a limb to buy a right mid. Lost out on the Gills man and then pushed the boat out for DJ. So money was there. We just focused on the wrong priority!
The best footballers play on instinct. That comes from their own ability and also clear direction from the coach. The combination of an individual being able to express themselves but within the coach's overall game plan.
Take Liverpool - last season they won the PL by 18 points from City. This season they are 22 points behind. That's a 40 point turn round. At times their players can't string three passes together. Even Klopp is feeling the pressure.
The difference between Klopp and Bowyer - Klopp has a track to run on and knows how he wants his team to play. He and the players have something to revert back to once that confidence returns. In the same way as Guardiola knew what he needed to do to get his team back on track, Klopp will do so too in time.
But what is LB's style of football? How was it that he managed to steer us towards promotion? I'm afraid the longer this goes on one questions whether he actually has a "style" and whether we were successful more on the back of a dozen players who are now plying their trade at Championship level or higher. With LB I see more a rigid expectation of what each player should be doing and when they aren't doing that they are blamed - in private or even public.
They are dropped as a result. If and when they return they are afraid to make the same mistakes, to not do exactly what the coach expects them to do. That is when instinct walks out the door, when they stop making the runs that they used to without ever thinking or to deliver even the most simple of passes. Failure becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.
There is only one way to break that. I mentioned that stat about Cardiff under McCarthy on the post match thread. How does a team comprising of the same players go from taking 29 points from 24 games under one manager to immediately taking 21 from 9 under another? There's no "baggage" for a start. There's no same message week in week out falling on deaf ears. McCarthy is also experienced enough to go in with a clear vision and the presence and gravitas that enables him to carry that off.
But net result is that this has wasted this season. We went out on a limb to buy a right mid. Lost out on the Gills man and then pushed the boat out for DJ. So money was there. We just focused on the wrong priority!
I don’t think we can be certain about the priorities, it’s a window in which you can’t always get what you want and sometimes late on in the window you sign other players because you need the numbers. I think Matt Smith is an example of that. DJ not so much as we needed another winger, we only have two.
Comments
"but the center halves are both injured"
But it is also a fact if you only have 2 center halves that are Oshilaja and Pearce it's reckless managment not to correct it at the first opportunity. Especially as we have now played about 12 games since the window opened and Inniss and Famewo have played 2 between them. Inniss must also be at least a month (7 games) away from starting?
LB blamed the ref for the penalties.
If Jaiyesimi didnt backtrack like hell, he is the one having a Tuesday off...?
We needed a CB that:
- Was affordable under the wage cap
- Proven/experienced enough that we could be fairly certain they'd be better than Oshilaja and Pearce
- Fit and ready to come straight in to the team
- Available to sign
- Understood they may be dropped once Inniss and Famewo were fit (which at the time we were hoping would be earlier than it actually turned out)
It's a bit different than signing a winger or striker who you can give time off the bench and rotate a bit more.
When fans go back and if this is still being served up, TS will know first hand what the majority want done.
God knows god loves a trier but while he had a good season last season, he’s better against more technical teams.
https://londonnewsonline.co.uk/lee-bowyer-has-say-after-darren-pratley-is-sent-off-during-charltons-loss-at-hull/
Don't agree they didn't try to improve on them - Ofoborh was a young DM we tried to bring in but he signed a pre-contract with Rangers and joined Wycombe on loan in the Championship.
I'm sure there are others we don't know about.
The mistake was signing Watson in the first place. Just said on the Watson thread we have too many slow CMs who lack energy. The balance isn't right, some of them would look decent if they had the right type of players around them.
January under a salary cap isn't a great time to be needing to sign quality players to improve the spine of your team. You can get the odd one or two like Stockley and Millar, but it's unlikely you'll bring in 4/5 who can make an immediate impact like they have.
Whoever is for the next few games should take a look in our u23s. Maybe there's a player there like Doughty who just needs a chance. They don't need to be the next Gomez or Shelvey to offer something in this side.
Bowyer is a trade gone wrong , yes it was onside and a good winner at one point , being short Bitcoin at 15k was brilliant when it was 5k but times and prices change .
Some people always get married to bad trades and find them hard to let go , trying to justify in their fucked up heads that it will come right and the price (good times)will come back
and every slight move in that direction makes them believe whatever fuckedupness is going through their heads that they are right .
well Bitcoin is 46k and doesn’t look like getting below 15k again , so even if it gets to 40k it’s still a wank trade .
The hardest thing is taking your losses cos it means you admit your wrong and you can see that on here , many hanging on in the hope that their shit trade will come good .
It’s not happening
he has to go , get out of that trade and start afresh .
However finding a defensive midfielder with legs is a lot easier than finding a 20 goal striker. Long legged Plymouth DCM and even the Gills CM that scored against us are much better than what we’ve got. So even if there was not a player to take the championship by storm I am sure that we could have improved!
He's found A BIG BAG OF SHITE...
Sometimes change and fresh starts are needed, even more so in football. It feels like now is in all parties best interests.
Karl Robinson is in no way a bad football manager, but this feels very much like the time when it was in everyone’s best interests for him to move on.
I no people have opinions but seriously the Bowyer in brigade talking about building his team for next season....These players talk amongst themselves and also with mates from other teams,all are probably aware of what’s going on with Bowyer,good & bad...but what player would really want to play for him,if he throws you under the bus then airs all that dirty washing out to the media,it’s almost bullying,why would anyone want that...as for the youngsters,the very same thing,one cock up & you become used abused & jettisoned out of team or at worst moved on,it’s no good for moral or team spirit,so if Lee is still in the hot seat next season who & what will he expect,because if as said it’s his training methods,his rudeness & irresponsible outbursts to his players then no wonder some players were so nearly through the door,yet went elsewhere & some seem quite happy to leave aswell...the caliber of players we need are gonna want respect back & I don’t think Lee has that in him if they don’t live up to his standards,there seems to be no give & take,so for that reason alone,I don’t think its gonna get any better with Bowyer in charge unfortunately,it’s time for change
Ally Maxwell noted the defensive record at home (9 games conceding 2 a game) but also thought Bowyer's demeanour and post match interviews over the last few months weren't helping getting the players in the right frame of mind
Take Liverpool - last season they won the PL by 18 points from City. This season they are 22 points behind. That's a 40 point turn round. At times their players can't string three passes together. Even Klopp is feeling the pressure.
The difference between Klopp and Bowyer - Klopp has a track to run on and knows how he wants his team to play. He and the players have something to revert back to once that confidence returns. In the same way as Guardiola knew what he needed to do to get his team back on track, Klopp will do so too in time.
But what is LB's style of football? How was it that he managed to steer us towards promotion? I'm afraid the longer this goes on one questions whether he actually has a "style" and whether we were successful more on the back of a dozen players who are now plying their trade at Championship level or higher. With LB I see more a rigid expectation of what each player should be doing and when they aren't doing that they are blamed - in private or even public.
They are dropped as a result. If and when they return they are afraid to make the same mistakes, to not do exactly what the coach expects them to do. That is when instinct walks out the door, when they stop making the runs that they used to without ever thinking or to deliver even the most simple of passes. Failure becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.
There is only one way to break that. I mentioned that stat about Cardiff under McCarthy on the post match thread. How does a team comprising of the same players go from taking 29 points from 24 games under one manager to immediately taking 21 from 9 under another? There's no "baggage" for a start. There's no same message week in week out falling on deaf ears. McCarthy is also experienced enough to go in with a clear vision and the presence and gravitas that enables him to carry that off.