I don’t see how he survives, Bowyer is killing the club - so sad to see as 18 months ago i thought he could do no wrong. Needs a break away from football imo. Sigh, fed up with all Charlton at the moment
“Killing the club”
Come on, let’s not be hysterical. He should probably go now, but don’t forget we’ve seen what someone actually killing the club looks like in the not too distant past.
If he called a player out in public just the once, then that is ok. Its an open mistake and football is an emotional sport. He might apologise and be professional. Move on. An open forgivable mistake if it's just the once. He can't stop doing it now though and he is completely unable to shut up. Why on earth has he gone down this road?
Why has he gone back in time? He was a lot more content, professional and mature a few years ago. Surely the experience is a learning process and you move forward, not backwards. I don't get it.
That's why I assume he is going through a rough patch in his personal private life and he's just far from happy.
The short fuse has came back.
Unfortunately, it sounds like he is now simply, just an asshole.
Quite saddened by it to be honest. It's not who he really is.
Unfortunately it feels like the younger Bowyer re-emerging, rather than the mature version mellowed by age and his fishing lake. Lets face it the younger Bowyer was an asshole
In surprised more has not been made of this. Bowyers general make up and demeanour as a player really does not suggest a manager to take us to the next level. Even compared to other managers we have had like Lennie, Curbs, even Powell ffs. Would either of them have abused restaurant staff, fought their own players, be consistently caught up in racism incidents (that has been very much brushed under the carpet in recent times)...... Yes in the past, but I have always thought that he won’t command the respect of the next wave of Kinsellas, Bents, Mendoncas, Hunts etc. And there would be ZERO chance if his influence turning round an enigmatic undoubted talent like Maddison.
If he called a player out in public just the once, then that is ok. Its an open mistake and football is an emotional sport. He might apologise and be professional. Move on. An open forgivable mistake if it's just the once. He can't stop doing it now though and he is completely unable to shut up. Why on earth has he gone down this road?
Why has he gone back in time? He was a lot more content, professional and mature a few years ago. Surely the experience is a learning process and you move forward, not backwards. I don't get it.
That's why I assume he is going through a rough patch in his personal private life and he's just far from happy.
The short fuse has came back.
Unfortunately, it sounds like he is now simply, just an asshole.
Quite saddened by it to be honest. It's not who he really is.
Unfortunately it feels like the younger Bowyer re-emerging, rather than the mature version mellowed by age and his fishing lake. Lets face it the younger Bowyer was an asshole
In surprised more has not been made of this. Bowyers general make up and demeanour as a player really does not suggest a manager to take us to the next level. Even compared to other managers we have had like Lennie, Curbs, even Powell ffs. Would either of them have abused restaurant staff, fought their own players, be consistently caught up in racism incidents (that has been very much brushed under the carpet in recent times)...... Yes in the past, but I have always thought that he won’t command the respect of the next wave of Kinsellas, Bents, Mendoncas, Hunts etc. And there would be ZERO chance if his influence turning round an enigmatic undoubted talent like Maddison.
Its just not gonna work.
Careful now. I think you’ll find you’re not allowed to say that on here.
Just to stress I am not saying any of that has happened now - it is more that managers in the game who are influencing younger players will naturally have the younger players looking at them for an example.
Lee Bowyer now is more likely to go carp fishing after a game than fight his team mate but if he’s telling a character like Maddison to be more professional ..... what if Maddison (who’s not the sharpest tool himself) looks back on the conduct over the years if Mr L Bowyer.
I thought for ages Bowyer needed a Curbs / Powell like character to make it work in the long run but it’s too late now
Just watching the post-match interview on Valley Pass and LB says: "The players I have in that dressing room are underachieving. One hundred percent." I'm so confused. He said 'over' last time.
Just to stress I am not saying any of that has happened now - it is more that managers in the game who are influencing younger players will naturally have the younger players looking at them for an example.
Lee Bowyer now is more likely to go carp fishing after a game than fight his team mate but if he’s telling a character like Maddison to be more professional ..... what if Maddison (who’s not the sharpest tool himself) looks back on the conduct over the years if Mr L Bowyer.
I thought for ages Bowyer needed a Curbs / Powell like character to make it work in the long run but it’s too late now
Yea i was rhinkng about that from your earlier post. It would be very easy for players to fire shots at Bowyer after being criticised. I can’t watch his post match interviews either he really lacks decorum.
Just watching the post-match interview on Valley Pass and LB says: "The players I have in that dressing room are underachieving. One hundred percent." I'm so confused. He said 'over' last time.
He's clutching at straws and it's just getting more embarrassing. The interviews serve no purpose.
Just watching the post-match interview on Valley Pass and LB says: "The players I have in that dressing room are underachieving. One hundred percent." I'm so confused. He said 'over' last time.
He's clutching at straws and it's just getting more embarrassing. The interviews serve no purpose.
It's all a bit of a car crash.
If he isn't going to get sacked he needs to stop doing them. He is making himself look like an idiot. Just don't do them at all.
Just watching the post-match interview on Valley Pass and LB says: "The players I have in that dressing room are underachieving. One hundred percent." I'm so confused. He said 'over' last time.
He's clutching at straws and it's just getting more embarrassing. The interviews serve no purpose.
It's all a bit of a car crash.
If he isn't going to get sacked he needs to stop doing them. He is making himself look like an idiot. Just don't do them at all.
Do the zoom one for journos an hour or so after.
I can't watch them anymore as they're just depressing to watch.
Just watching the post-match interview on Valley Pass and LB says: "The players I have in that dressing room are underachieving. One hundred percent." I'm so confused. He said 'over' last time.
The situation is doing the next incumbent a massive favour. There will be a pick up and they’ll get credit and others will highlight how much Bowyer was holding us back.
Sometimes change and fresh starts are needed, even more so in football. It feels like now is in all parties best interests.
Karl Robinson is in no way a bad football manager, but this feels very much like the time when it was in everyone’s best interests for him to move on.
I suspect recency bias may play a part, but for me the performances/results feel even worse now than they did with Robinson.
Conceding an average of 3 goals per home game for about 2 months would be astonishingly bad for a team at the bottom of the Premier League, let alone one aiming for promotion from a dreadful League One.
No you’re right @cafctom I agree, I was just using the example that sometimes (for various reasons) it can get lost along the way and go wrong. It doesn’t automatically mean they are ‘a bad manager’, but the way the situation has evolved the best course of action I see is a change for all parties.
I don’t see how he survives, Bowyer is killing the club - so sad to see as 18 months ago i thought he could do no wrong. Needs a break away from football imo. Sigh, fed up with all Charlton at the moment
From holding the club together, now "killing the club". I don't think so.
What may have been an awkward or controversial decision 2 months ago, is now a very simple and obvious decision for TS. Surely there can only be a very small minority who are still thinking that keeping LB in position, is the right thing to do. I know its not my money but the pay off will be a thank you for what he did, and put up with, in the first couple of years. There should be no guilt about pulling the trigger and i'm really hoping they have been using the last few months to line up the right replacement because to me, LB has shown an inability to get the best out of what he has got, for well over a year now. A new broom to oversee a rebuild is what the club needs - the only decision is about picking the right person.
Yep, having been pro-Bowyer up until Burton then a little anti only to move back to suppprting him in the week - I think it’s best he gets a decent pay off for the rest of his contract, shake hands and go our separate ways.
The trouble is, that also means goodbye to JJ. I don’t believe the same voice is what we need here. It’s a complete overhaul. A sad way to say goodbye to a genuine club legend.
It’ll be painful but better to do it now then let this linger into the summer and balls up next season.
Who you appoint in their place is another matter. I can’t see anyone obvious to come in. Cook? Plays effective but awful football and has spent his career in the north. Feels like Neil Redfearn all over again.
Loans and short term contracts on players over the hill is not going to give you passion to win games, the best performance at the Valley this season was the EFL cup game against Orient. A few youngsters made their debuts in that game. It seems like Bowyer is not interested in the our youth when other clubs in this league have maximised this opportunity.
A - Bowyer has lost the dressing room as suggested by a player to J Block
Or
B - ThE PlAyErS ArEn'T gOoD eNoUgH.
C The players could not give a s***, Bowyer does.
Out them and replace in the summer and 'do a Powell' next season.
How many games you watched this season again?
One.
I think you need to respect the opinion more of those that have watched most games/every game, surely you just don’t have enough experience of the current gameplay to form an opinion as steadfast as the one you have. you seem very confident of your own views, why is that? Unless you have first hand experience of the current situation aren’t your opinions based on guesswork; the same as others. it’s like like a doctor making a house call and examining the patient through the letterbox.
Having watched the videos on the from the excellent Benjy Nurick on the thread of his name, it caused me to analyse the squad in more depth.
Without going into the whys and wherefores (of contract length, who should be retained, contract lengths etc.) the squad is a real mess. Most of the players either know they won’t be here next year or will, at best, be squad players. I only counted two that I could see as definite starters and one of those (Stockley) would need to be signed as permanent (would be 3 but we’ve got no chance of keeping Famewo).
The squad situation is a manifestation of all that has gone on before - whilst signed in TS’s tenure they were kind of thrown together and the January window is notoriously difficult to put it right. To a degree Bowyer can’t be blamed for that but, having said all of the above, they are not terrible players and he should be getting more out of them than he is. His biggest weakness, to me, seems to be his reaction to pressure - he always seemed quite relaxed under the bad regimes when there was no real expectation, just one of our own doing the best he can, what more could we ask. But TS comes in and, rightly, sets a target of play off places and Bowyer seems unhappy with the world regularly resorting to publicly blaming players - telling it how it is often is not the best policy, any of us who have managed under pressure will tell you that, it tends to make matters worse. Players know when they’ve made a bad mistake, repeatedly telling them and punishing them for it will lead to more bad mistakes. His morose body language is also a no no at this time, take the matter seriously of course but if he doesn’t look like he believes it will turn around the players sure as hell won’t. It’s simply bad leadership. When’s all said and done there’s a reason Bowyer chose fishing over football for a few years.
It’s his reaction to what’s gone on that is more likely to lose him his job rather than the results. There is a massive rebuild required in the summer which, hopefully, TS is going to significantly invest in. He needs the right man in now to understand the place, know what players he wants to keep, have input into next season’s signings (a process that already should be well underway). And the small matter of getting enough points for safety this term.
Maybe the search for the ‘right man’ is already underway and maybe he’s not available until after the last day of the season. Or maybe, for reasons that aren’t apparent to us, TS feels that LB is our leader for next season.
One thing’s for sure, if TS doesn’t trust Bowyer with next season’s investment, he has to act now.
Football is about momentum, if Bowyer sees out the season and oversees a rebuild, unless we pick up some form (most unlikely at present) the remaining games are going to be toxic and will only hinder any rebuilding process and delay things further.
Here is a question I’d be grateful for an opinion on. We now appear to have the best ownership we have had in a long time. There is stability and no more of the chaos of a year ago. Players do not have to worry about being paid even in difficult COVID times. The club are building something with the fans together and I can’t wait until we can get back in to watch the team. So my question is how has the chaos from previous ownerships somehow transferred itself into performances and results?
I don’t see how he survives, Bowyer is killing the club - so sad to see as 18 months ago i thought he could do no wrong. Needs a break away from football imo. Sigh, fed up with all Charlton at the moment
“Killing the club”
Come on, let’s not be hysterical. He should probably go now, but don’t forget we’ve seen what someone actually killing the club looks like in the not too distant past.
Fair point, killing this current crop of players more like.
Here is a question I’d be grateful for an opinion on. We now appear to have the best ownership we have had in a long time. There is stability and no more of the chaos of a year ago. Players do not have to worry about being paid even in difficult COVID times. The club are building something with the fans together and I can’t wait until we can get back in to watch the team. So my question is how has the chaos from previous ownerships somehow transferred itself into performances and results?
In a word BOWYER.
I think constantly calling players out in public has cost him the respect he needs from the players. Not finding a playing system that works and sticking to it. Playing players out of position when he hasn't needed to. Not getting the best out of his more skilful players. Showing far to much loyalty to players like Watson and Pratley. Getting rid of Lapslie and Williams. The list goes on. But the buck stops with Bowyer.
Have seen a couple of posts critical of the January signings, we can all see we needed a Centre Back and an energetic CDM but instead we got Ronnie.
Does anyone now think that this wasn’t a Bows signing and was forced upon by Thomas? - a vanity signing if you will to strengthen the Danish links?
Either way he’s been a complete did and maybe it’s the reason we then couldn’t get another defender in during the window? He cost £300k and decent wages I’m sure and he’s offers absolutely nothing
We needed a striker as well as those positions. We only had 3 (not counting Smyth) which was one reason Bogle was playing so often despite not performing.
Football is about momentum, if Bowyer sees out the season and oversees a rebuild, unless we pick up some form (most unlikely at present) the remaining games are going to be toxic and will only hinder any rebuilding process and delay things further.
Also, if Bowyer stays next season, I don't see how we can keep ANY of this seasons players, even the ones under contract.
Just watching the post-match interview on Valley Pass and LB says: "The players I have in that dressing room are underachieving. One hundred percent." I'm so confused. He said 'over' last time.
Probably meant before himself & his management team are overachieving not the team!
If the strategic decision by Sandgaard is to write off this season now and ride it out with no change, this could get pretty grim. Our run in will see us playing back to back against teams playing for promotion with a disheartened squad playing for nothing and knowing they are leaving.
So no one can pinpoint who Bowyer was digging out?
Says a lot
That is the blame culture that he has created. On the one hand he says that "it's down to me" but, in the very next breath he says that it is because of player "x", "y" or "z".
It's deflection from the root cause of the problem. There's a certain Manager in charge of a north London club who does that too. Which is why he loses so many dressing rooms. Because players become fed up with it. Ferguson would famously give players the hair dryer treatment in the dressing room but, in public, he would blame the Ref, luck, cheating of the opposition or even the colour of the other team's shirts.
But never, in a post match conference, would he single out a player for blame. Because once you do that to "x" this week you have to do it to "y" next. His own "enforcers" within the team are untouchable. Well possibly until he gets sent off for the second time in ten games that is!
Yeah I’m not a fan out him calling out players in public.
However I think we focus on the stuff we want to hear. I hear him blame himself as much as he does everything else.
Others just hear him blame players, refs and bizarrely weather.
He clearly wears his heart on his sleeve and just speaks his mind... rightly or wrongly
"I know I'm a good manager. I tell the players the right things every day. Every day. And for whatever reason some of these players can't take the information"
Football is about momentum, if Bowyer sees out the season and oversees a rebuild, unless we pick up some form (most unlikely at present) the remaining games are going to be toxic and will only hinder any rebuilding process and delay things further.
The opposing force of bowyers random unexpected immature behaviour...has sent the momentum to a place that can't be identified.
It basically just means small clubs can run rings round us and they are enjoying it.
If the strategic decision by Sandgaard is to write off this season now and ride it out with no change, this could get pretty grim. Our run in will see us playing back to back against teams playing for promotion with a disheartened squad playing for nothing and knowing they are leaving.
If the strategic decision by Sandgaard is to write off this season now and ride it out with no change, this could get pretty grim. Our run in will see us playing back to back against teams playing for promotion with a disheartened squad playing for nothing and knowing they are leaving.
Yet another good reason change needs to happen sooner rather than later.
Comments
Come on, let’s not be hysterical. He should probably go now, but don’t forget we’ve seen what someone actually killing the club looks like in the not too distant past.
Its just not gonna work.
Lee Bowyer now is more likely to go carp fishing after a game than fight his team mate but if he’s telling a character like Maddison to be more professional ..... what if Maddison (who’s not the sharpest tool himself) looks back on the conduct over the years if Mr L Bowyer.
I thought for ages Bowyer needed a Curbs / Powell like character to make it work in the long run but it’s too late now
It's all a bit of a car crash.
Do the zoom one for journos an hour or so after.
From holding the club together, now "killing the club". I don't think so.
you seem very confident of your own views, why is that? Unless you have first hand experience of the current situation aren’t your opinions based on guesswork; the same as others.
it’s like like a doctor making a house call and examining the patient through the letterbox.
Without going into the whys and wherefores (of contract length, who should be retained, contract lengths etc.) the squad is a real mess. Most of the players either know they won’t be here next year or will, at best, be squad players. I only counted two that I could see as definite starters and one of those (Stockley) would need to be signed as permanent (would be 3 but we’ve got no chance of keeping Famewo).
The squad situation is a manifestation of all that has gone on before - whilst signed in TS’s tenure they were kind of thrown together and the January window is notoriously difficult to put it right. To a degree Bowyer can’t be blamed for that but, having said all of the above, they are not terrible players and he should be getting more out of them than he is. His biggest weakness, to me, seems to be his reaction to pressure - he always seemed quite relaxed under the bad regimes when there was no real expectation, just one of our own doing the best he can, what more could we ask. But TS comes in and, rightly, sets a target of play off places and Bowyer seems unhappy with the world regularly resorting to publicly blaming players - telling it how it is often is not the best policy, any of us who have managed under pressure will tell you that, it tends to make matters worse. Players know when they’ve made a bad mistake, repeatedly telling them and punishing them for it will lead to more bad mistakes. His morose body language is also a no no at this time, take the matter seriously of course but if he doesn’t look like he believes it will turn around the players sure as hell won’t. It’s simply bad leadership. When’s all said and done there’s a reason Bowyer chose fishing over football for a few years.
It’s his reaction to what’s gone on that is more likely to lose him his job rather than the results. There is a massive rebuild required in the summer which, hopefully, TS is going to significantly invest in. He needs the right man in now to understand the place, know what players he wants to keep, have input into next season’s signings (a process that already should be well underway). And the small matter of getting enough points for safety this term.
Maybe the search for the ‘right man’ is already underway and maybe he’s not available until after the last day of the season. Or maybe, for reasons that aren’t apparent to us, TS feels that LB is our leader for next season.
One thing’s for sure, if TS doesn’t trust Bowyer with next season’s investment, he has to act now.
I think constantly calling players out in public has cost him the respect he needs from the players.
Not finding a playing system that works and sticking to it.
Playing players out of position when he hasn't needed to.
Not getting the best out of his more skilful players.
Showing far to much loyalty to players like Watson and Pratley.
Getting rid of Lapslie and Williams.
The list goes on.
But the buck stops with Bowyer.
The opposing force of bowyers random unexpected immature behaviour...has sent the momentum to a place that can't be identified.
It basically just means small clubs can run rings round us and they are enjoying it.