After racking my brains, the best theory I can come up with is Thomas agreed to give Bowyer this season with a target of top six. He being a man of principle won't go back on his word.
If that is correct, we probably won't see Bowyer gone until top six is impossible or he walks which I think is unlikely for reasons we have already discussed.
There is a new issue looming though. If we carry on like this, we can't rule out relegation. A few more defeats and this possibility will get larger and larger.
And if Sandgaard is a man of principle, he will start with Bowyer next season.
Not if he hasn't assured him of such. Being a man of principle is not the same thing as being a fool.
Sandgaard said Bowyer was the man for the job, and he wanted promotion in two seasons.
Doesn’t mean he should stick with Bowyer for the second season just because we didn’t expect to go to up in the first.
You have to have the confidence that he’s the right man for the job. The slagging off of players, the recruitment, team selections and tactics are increasingly showing that just he’s not.
Coating players in public is a poor show.
It’s clearly putting players off. Is there any coming back from that? I don’t think so. Fair enough players have to take responsibility but you can’t just sell all the players he slags off and keep replacing them. It’s ok occasionally but it’s not a long term solution.
If the theory is Bowyer is the right manager and it's the players who have either exclusively or mainly caused this malaise and frankly bizarre Manager vs Squad impasse... with a handful of exceptions (Amos, Morgan, Pearce, AMB, JFC) Bowyer has overseen the recruitment of this squad (mostly in choppy waters, granted), then -
1. How is Bowyer not accountable for the actions and mentality of a squad he assembled?
2. Before we implement an overhaul of most of the squad in the summer, how on earth do we trust that this isn't going to happen again with different players next season?
My concern about giving Bowyer a chance to rebuild in the summer is that word has already gone round about his shortcomings and anyone decent would run a mile. It may have been a reason why we didn’t land our top targets in January.
Well it's midday on Sunday and I can't but feel TS would have acted by now if he was going to remove LB after yesterday's fiasco. So I assume LB w I'll still be in charge on Tuesday. I'm amazed to be honest.
But the time has come for TS to say something. If he is not going to sack LB he needs to make it clear that LB retains his full support and will be allowed a full rebuild in the summer.
Saying nothing is no longer an
LB will be in charge come start of next season .. the expectations of fans this season. Has been ridiculous to be honest it was always going to be very difficult for us to get promoted this season given our situation at the start of the season ... if we could sneek into play offs and that not out the question in this league it will be one of our biggest achievements .... this season has been a rush , we have been playing catch up since the day TS took over .. yes we had to sign players that were available might not have been the ones we would have chosen given more time and no wage cap but needs must .. some have worked some have not ..
Add this to the whole COVID situation and no crowds which I believe is a massive lift for away teams coming to the valley and a big loss to us ... and I think you see why TS will not be removing LB ... we need a proper pre season and proper time to try and catch up a bit more and without wage cap hopefully we can do that much easier
But it’s been pointed out on several occasions, what players are going to want to come here and play under a manager that publicly slates his players and constantly changes them??
I do not trust Bowyer to attract the correct players, play them in their correct roles and play a system that will get us results.
Players will come to us because we'll still be one of the biggest clubs at this level. And now the salary cap has gone you'd assume one of the better payers too.
Players will always back their own ability anyway, i doubt many will think "i'm not signing for Charlton as i might get rotated, i'll go to Accrington and play every game".
Players that we will be after to get out of this league will still have options. Bowyer is getting himself a reputation for all the wrong reasons.
Can anyone think of a manager who turned a run of form and an unmotivated team like this around? If he is staying, I'd at least like to give myself some hope.
Problem with Bowyer is that he competed at such a higher level than these players and is so much mentally stronger. There is a reason they are playing at this level.
Can anyone think of a manager who turned a run of form and an unmotivated team like this around? If he is staying, I'd at least like to give myself some hope.
No but. Yes to the form.
But no to everything else. I don't think I have ever seen a manager recover from slagging the fans, "punishment subs" (for want of a better description) and publicly slagging off the players. To me the form/results are a direct result of everything else, not the other way round.
I think including positional changes we made 20 changes over 2 games! That's 2 league games, no micky mouse cup, no resting for a massive mid week game. That is not normal.
I've had enough of him. Bowyer thinks he's billy big bollocks, reality is he's a bully who has lost the plot over the last few months. Pull the trigger Sandgaard
You’ve summed it up well there. I’m surprised none of the players have chinned him. He hates it when a player that he has previously dug out proves him wrong. He has done some despicable things to players - Maddison, Williams and Morgan to name but a few. He is an absolute joke of a manager.
After racking my brains, the best theory I can come up with is Thomas agreed to give Bowyer this season with a target of top six. He being a man of principle won't go back on his word.
If that is correct, we probably won't see Bowyer gone until top six is impossible or he walks which I think is unlikely for reasons we have already discussed.
There is a new issue looming though. If we carry on like this, we can't rule out relegation. A few more defeats and this possibility will get larger and larger.
And if Sandgaard is a man of principle, he will start with Bowyer next season.
Not if he hasn't assured him of such. Being a man of principle is not the same thing as being a fool.
Sandgaard said Bowyer was the man for the job, and he wanted promotion in two seasons.
Doesn’t mean he should stick with Bowyer for the second season just because we didn’t expect to go to up in the first.
You have to have the confidence that he’s the right man for the job. The slagging off of players, the recruitment, team selections and tactics are increasingly showing that just he’s not.
Coating players in public is a poor show.
Correct. By all means tear in to players (if justified) but do it behind closed doors. He has no man management skills whatsoever - I can’t for one minute believe that he will put his arm around a player and give them confidence when things go wrong. Managers stood by him as a player and gave him a bit of love. He has played under some good managers and looks like he has learned nothing.
I’m seriously starting to dislike him - a shame after the play off season, but he is losing the plot as the days go by.
I’m only speculating and to be honest I reckon Bowyer will survive once again, but every chance him and Thomas will ‘have a chat’ on Monday at the start of the work week.
I just can't see why he's still the manager. Every excuse he's come out with comes back to him.
"It's not Bowyer, the players aren't good enough" - Bowyer signed every single 1 of those players.
"The wage cap has fucked us" - Every other team in this division had to deal with the wage cap, although I accept other teams were in a better position than us to start with
"We'll be better when our 2 main centre backs are fit" - 1 of them is back & we're still shite. He had a chance to sign another centre back in January but didn't.
TS has been incredibly quiet on Twitter for 24 hours now. No tweets, no likes, no ‘Boom!’ (not that there was anything to Boom! about yesterday), no nothing. To not even say something like “tough game today, we go again Tuesday” (which he normally does) definitely speaks to something being up
Whilst I can no longer defend Bowyer's position, I'm absolutely delighted that our new owner isn't trigger happy and doesn't bow to pressure from supporters on social media.
It's very easy to come on here and say that he should sack him immediately, with the hefty payout that entails. None of us really know what's going on behind the scenes. Maybe he's not impressed by any of the available alternatives at the moment. We've almost certainly blown any chance of the play offs and need only 6 or 7 points from our least 15 games to be safe from relegation. Why rush? I'd rather sit through a couple more months of this dross if it means getting a better replacement in the summer, rather than rushing to appoint Cowley or Cook just to gain the short term approval of a proportion of our supporters.
2 sides to every story. The fans deserve to know the truth.
I actually think the opposite. The fans deserve to not have the internal issues played out in public, actually. We shouldn't be knowing about any of these things, but the manager is airing out his frustrations in public and dropping wicked whispers like a gossip columnist during his interviews. It's not professional, and it's not cool.
He's lost it. Post match interviews increasingly bizarre. Can't see any of them wanting to play for him ever again. Excuse after excuse. "Not my fault it's the players". Who bought them in Lee? Whose job is it to motivate?
Whilst I can no longer defend Bowyer's position, I'm absolutely delighted that our new owner isn't trigger happy and doesn't bow to pressure from supporters on social media.
It's very easy to come on here and say that he should sack him immediately, with the hefty payout that entails. None of us really know what's going on behind the scenes. Maybe he's not impressed by any of the available alternatives at the moment. We've almost certainly blown any chance of the play offs and need only 6 or 7 points from our least 15 games to be safe from relegation. Why rush? I'd rather sit through a couple more months of this dross if it means getting a better replacement in the summer, rather than rushing to appoint Cowley or Cook just to gain the short term approval of a proportion of our supporters.
I don't think anyone could accuse TS of being trigger happy if he sacks Bowyer. He's had plenty of time to turn it around. We've been shit for months!!
A caretaker appointment until then end of the season would be better than putting up with this for another couple of months
Don't trust Bowyer to take a budget given to him in the summer window and build a promotion winning squad. Unless we're going to be offering some of the highest wages in the division, how exactly is he going to convince any new signings to buy into what he wants them to do
TS has been incredibly quiet on Twitter for 24 hours now. No tweets, no likes, no ‘Boom!’ (not that there was anything to Boom! about yesterday), no nothing. To not even say something like “tough game today, we go again Tuesday” (which he normally does) definitely speaks to something being up
Yes, the last match related tweet was when we went 1-0 up on Tuesday against Burton. He didn't comment after the Burton match, and said nothing yesterday
I'd be staggered if he wasn't fuming after the last 4 matches, which against average opponents have delivered just 1 point, especially after the backing Bowyer got in January
TS has been incredibly quiet on Twitter for 24 hours now. No tweets, no likes, no ‘Boom!’ (not that there was anything to Boom! about yesterday), no nothing. To not even say something like “tough game today, we go again Tuesday” (which he normally does) definitely speaks to something being up
I do hope he is not getting disillusioned with all this doubting of his handling this situation by the fans, as you say he would usually post up some sort of reaction, so whatever is happening or not this thread will drag on and on, amazing we have got to 140 pages of too and fro
TS has been incredibly quiet on Twitter for 24 hours now. No tweets, no likes, no ‘Boom!’ (not that there was anything to Boom! about yesterday), no nothing. To not even say something like “tough game today, we go again Tuesday” (which he normally does) definitely speaks to something being up
We don’t even know if TS and LB have spoken since Saturday. Perhaps TS is giving Lee space over the weekend to get his head straight for a conversation to be had on Monday. I can’t see Thomas going after Bowyer, in fact I’m confident that provided Lee says the right things then he will be backed.
I wonder if TS is looking at the Wigan game on Wednesday as last chance saloon. They are down the bottom of the form table along with us. He might be thinking a win could be the turn of the tide. May be LB's last game.
I wonder if TS is looking at the Wigan game on Wednesday as last chance saloon. They are down the bottom of the form table along with us. He might be thinking a win could be the turn of the tide. May be LB's last game.
Could be the case, but, how may last chance saloons can he have, thought Burton was his last chance maybe, but this just drags on and on
I've said it before and I'll say it again, TS is not going to sack LB just because fans want him to. TS is a successful businessman in his own right. He has also said, on many occasions, he is a stubborn person. It was his stubbornness that won the day, eventually, against ESI and all their 'hangerons'!! It is TS's money, his plan and his 'right' to decide what he wants to do. For what it's worth I was in the keep LB camp, but after the last two games it's obvious something is not right, or not clicking, so I now think a change is required.
However I respect what LB did for the club and I also respect TS decisions, after all I don't have £500 million available to spend on CAFC, if only I did!! We have no idea what's going on behind the scenes, so we'll just have to wait and see what transpires. I don't think TS will waste money, but I do think he has patience to ride this current situation, how long for? Who knows?
Whilst I can no longer defend Bowyer's position, I'm absolutely delighted that our new owner isn't trigger happy and doesn't bow to pressure from supporters on social media.
It's very easy to come on here and say that he should sack him immediately, with the hefty payout that entails. None of us really know what's going on behind the scenes. Maybe he's not impressed by any of the available alternatives at the moment. We've almost certainly blown any chance of the play offs and need only 6 or 7 points from our least 15 games to be safe from relegation. Why rush? I'd rather sit through a couple more months of this dross if it means getting a better replacement in the summer, rather than rushing to appoint Cowley or Cook just to gain the short term approval of a proportion of our supporters.
Agree on the trigger happy point.
Disagree about sitting through more dross. I think it’s important to let a new manager have a look at the squad before deciding what to do in the summer. However I do take your point about behind the scenes. We don’t know what’s happening and whether we have a summer appointment lined up. If that’s the case I’d still sack Bowyer because he’s creating a toxic atmosphere in the dressing room.
Comments
If the theory is Bowyer is the right manager and it's the players who have either exclusively or mainly caused this malaise and frankly bizarre Manager vs Squad impasse... with a handful of exceptions (Amos, Morgan, Pearce, AMB, JFC) Bowyer has overseen the recruitment of this squad (mostly in choppy waters, granted), then -
1. How is Bowyer not accountable for the actions and mentality of a squad he assembled?
2. Before we implement an overhaul of most of the squad in the summer, how on earth do we trust that this isn't going to happen again with different players next season?
But no to everything else. I don't think I have ever seen a manager recover from slagging the fans, "punishment subs" (for want of a better description) and publicly slagging off the players. To me the form/results are a direct result of everything else, not the other way round.
I think including positional changes we made 20 changes over 2 games! That's 2 league games, no micky mouse cup, no resting for a massive mid week game. That is not normal.
Really can't understand Sandgaard's thinking here
He’s been very quiet recently.
"It's not Bowyer, the players aren't good enough"
- Bowyer signed every single 1 of those players.
"The wage cap has fucked us"
- Every other team in this division had to deal with the wage cap, although I accept other teams were in a better position than us to start with
"We'll be better when our 2 main centre backs are fit"
- 1 of them is back & we're still shite. He had a chance to sign another centre back in January but didn't.
It all comes back to Bowyer!!
2 sides to every story. The fans deserve to know the truth.
It's very easy to come on here and say that he should sack him immediately, with the hefty payout that entails. None of us really know what's going on behind the scenes. Maybe he's not impressed by any of the available alternatives at the moment. We've almost certainly blown any chance of the play offs and need only 6 or 7 points from our least 15 games to be safe from relegation. Why rush? I'd rather sit through a couple more months of this dross if it means getting a better replacement in the summer, rather than rushing to appoint Cowley or Cook just to gain the short term approval of a proportion of our supporters.
I have a nagging feeling that the 20th of March could be key. If there is no up turn in results we could be right in the brown stuff by then.
Also if there is a slight up turn we will be safe from relegation and a mutual consent about "different directions" or some bollocks could be spun.
I actually think the opposite. The fans deserve to not have the internal issues played out in public, actually. We shouldn't be knowing about any of these things, but the manager is airing out his frustrations in public and dropping wicked whispers like a gossip columnist during his interviews. It's not professional, and it's not cool.
Excuse after excuse. "Not my fault it's the players". Who bought them in Lee? Whose job is it to motivate?
A caretaker appointment until then end of the season would be better than putting up with this for another couple of months
I'd be staggered if he wasn't fuming after the last 4 matches, which against average opponents have delivered just 1 point, especially after the backing Bowyer got in January
Seriously surely a third tier manager shouldn’t even be on a half of that