Oh Lee, this is getting rather tedious and arrogant. My concern is that other Teams, Managers, Players, Refs even are probably thinking the same thing and it's revving them up!
“Look at all the teams at the top. I said to Thomas: ‘Peterborough are top and we went and played them and they weren’t better than us’.
Yes Lee except the fact that they scored more goals than us and have consistently scored more than they have conceded Lee.
Oh Lee, this is getting rather tedious and arrogant. My concern is that other Teams, Managers, Players, Refs even are probably thinking the same thing and it's revving them up!
“Look at all the teams at the top. I said to Thomas: ‘Peterborough are top and we went and played them and they weren’t better than us’.
So his definition of the other team not being better than us is obvious...we managed to stay in the game for some stretch of time before either shooting ourselves in the foot or being outwitted. If we stop doing that and just score a bit more, we are the better team and winners.
I think we are a bit to blame for this mess and for my part I apologise to Thomas. We were jumping up and down, me included, because Southall seemed to be stalling on Bowyer's contract. To mitigate, this was at a time when there was no evidence he was losing it.
Bowyer is a bit to blame, but only if you want to say he is loyal. If not he was merely using the situation to benefit himself which isn't a crime. He knew he had Southall over a barrel. Of course on a professional level, nobody would begrudge Bowyer these wages when earned and playing in one division off the top one, but he isn't performing now and clearly is benefitting more than he should for failure.
Southall is a bit to blame as on top of being a crook, he was a useless chairman and at this time we have later found out that things were certainly not as he wanted us to think. There should have been relegation clauses in the contract that meant we didn't find ourselves in this situation.
The only person who isn't to blame in this mess IMO is Thomas. None of us can call on him to sack Bowyer given the situation. I do think this nonsense that Bowyer is out for anybody but himself has to be put to bed though. He knows he is failing and he knows his driver is money not loyalty.
Well I'm speechless. That tells us that TS isn't going to sack Bowyer & I don't understand it
You shouldn’t be surprised as I keep saying TS and only TS will decide when enough is enough so there’s no point getting your hopes up. Accept it for the the time being.
It is what it is, maybe try and focus on those players who appear not to give a toss for the shirt and take your frustrations out on them 😉.
But why don't they care?
Lee needs to inspire them for the rest of the season if he isn't going to be sacked. He needs to get them onside stop the negativity as it clearly doesn't help. I feel bad for the player who was told he won't play at Wigan, i mean how many managers go up to a player at the end of a game and say your crap and you're not playing the next game, that his a huge confidence blow to whoever it is(Deji i guess). Bowyer doesn't seem to understand empathy and subtlety which is a massive problem when that one of the main parts of a managers job. e.g. Look at how Klopp treats his players, he is very positive towards them.
No one would be too angry if we could see the players were really trying but just aren't good enough, but barely trying like the last few games is just not good enough and that's down to the manager.
They probably don’t care because some have downed tools knowing they won’t be here next season and others because of a personality clash.
Why do you feel sorry for that player whoever that may be though? You don’t know what was said in the dressing room do you? He may have put his hands up and said sorry boss down to me and the reply ‘Yep and you won’t be playing in the next game, you need a break’. Hopefully that was one to one though.
I agree that some of those players haven’t lived up to expectations but that doesn’t excuse not doing what you’ve been asked to and working on in training. Those players need to take more responsibility for their actions and if not they get a time out.
It's such a shame to see what he's become. I loved Lee, but he's now a deluded fool who spouts so much rubbish.
It's sad to see
It’s only what some people are seeing. I’m seeing people go way over the top.
To be clear, I’m not currently a ‘Bowyer supporter’ and I won’t dispute things are pretty crap at the moment. But what I’m also seeing is akin to how political supporters of the opposition constantly look to debunk, dismiss and demonise everything to do with whoever is the prime minister. I just can’t believe the escalated scale in which every comment decision etc is OTT scrutinised and slated, or viewpoints repetitively repeated.
i get people are unhappy, I get some people want change and I don’t necessarily disagree with any of that. I just don’t understand how he has lost some of you SO much after such difficult, and previously successful periods.
It's such a shame to see what he's become. I loved Lee, but he's now a deluded fool who spouts so much rubbish.
It's sad to see
It’s only what some people are seeing. I’m seeing people go way over the top.
To be clear, I’m not currently a ‘Bowyer supporter’ and I won’t dispute things are pretty crap at the moment. But what I’m also seeing is akin to how political supporters of the opposition constantly look to debunk, dismiss and demonise everything to do with whoever is the prime minister. I just can’t believe the escalated scale in which every comment decision etc is OTT scrutinised and slated, or viewpoints repetitively repeated.
i get people are unhappy, I get some people want change and I don’t necessarily disagree with any of that. I just don’t understand how he has lost some of you SO much after such difficult, and previously successful periods.
Performances and results pure and simple. I was a LB supporter until two weeks ago. Once you get past being that and look at what’s happening I can fully understand why people have turned on him.
Oh Lee, this is getting rather tedious and arrogant. My concern is that other Teams, Managers, Players, Refs even are probably thinking the same thing and it's revving them up!
“Look at all the teams at the top. I said to Thomas: ‘Peterborough are top and we went and played them and they weren’t better than us’.
Good grief. Doesn't help himself does he. Assume we'll be putting a call into the EFL for an honourary promotion, because the top 2 aren't better than us?
It's such a shame to see what he's become. I loved Lee, but he's now a deluded fool who spouts so much rubbish.
It's sad to see
It’s only what some people are seeing. I’m seeing people go way over the top.
To be clear, I’m not currently a ‘Bowyer supporter’ and I won’t dispute things are pretty crap at the moment. But what I’m also seeing is akin to how political supporters of the opposition constantly look to debunk, dismiss and demonise everything to do with whoever is the prime minister. I just can’t believe the escalated scale in which every comment decision etc is OTT scrutinised and slated, or viewpoints repetitively repeated.
i get people are unhappy, I get some people want change and I don’t necessarily disagree with any of that. I just don’t understand how he has lost some of you SO much after such difficult, and previously successful periods.
I think expectations are different under an ambitious owner, but it's not the fact we won't make the playoffs that bothers me. I was with LB up until he started publicly slagging off players. Since then, performances have been dreadful, he makes every excuse under the sun & blames everyone but himself, that's what pisses me off
It's such a shame to see what he's become. I loved Lee, but he's now a deluded fool who spouts so much rubbish.
It's sad to see
It’s only what some people are seeing. I’m seeing people go way over the top.
To be clear, I’m not currently a ‘Bowyer supporter’ and I won’t dispute things are pretty crap at the moment. But what I’m also seeing is akin to how political supporters of the opposition constantly look to debunk, dismiss and demonise everything to do with whoever is the prime minister. I just can’t believe the escalated scale in which every comment decision etc is OTT scrutinised and slated, or viewpoints repetitively repeated.
i get people are unhappy, I get some people want change and I don’t necessarily disagree with any of that. I just don’t understand how he has lost some of you SO much after such difficult, and previously successful periods.
I think expectations are different under an ambitious owner, but it's not the fact we won't make the playoffs that bothers me. I was with LB up until he started publicly slagging off players. Since then, performances have been dreadful, he makes every excuse under the sun & blames everyone but himself, that's what pisses me off
And we can slag off the players all we like, but when that happens I don't know how you can expect them to do the business. Confidence is such a big factor in football and Bowyer has squeezed all of that out of the side.
It's such a shame to see what he's become. I loved Lee, but he's now a deluded fool who spouts so much rubbish.
It's sad to see
It’s only what some people are seeing. I’m seeing people go way over the top.
To be clear, I’m not currently a ‘Bowyer supporter’ and I won’t dispute things are pretty crap at the moment. But what I’m also seeing is akin to how political supporters of the opposition constantly look to debunk, dismiss and demonise everything to do with whoever is the prime minister. I just can’t believe the escalated scale in which every comment decision etc is OTT scrutinised and slated, or viewpoints repetitively repeated.
i get people are unhappy, I get some people want change and I don’t necessarily disagree with any of that. I just don’t understand how he has lost some of you SO much after such difficult, and previously successful periods.
I think expectations are different under an ambitious owner, but it's not the fact we won't make the playoffs that bothers me. I was with LB up until he started publicly slagging off players. Since then, performances have been dreadful, he makes every excuse under the sun & blames everyone but himself, that's what pisses me off
Exactly how I feel. He’s got the audacity to use ‘lack of confidence’ as an excuse when he’s part of the cause.
The moment the playoffs are not mathematically achievable. Thomas I reckon will pull the trigger. It looks good for him in the long run that he backs his manager over us losing our shit on Social Media:)
How I see it. He's set a target. If it's not met then thanks and goodbye.
I suppose Thomas sees it as fair. There can be no arguments and maybe the realism of being kicked out might make Bowyer get his act together. Not seen enough to suggest he can turn this around though tbh. Also give TS more time to get a decent replacement lined up
The worry for me is Bowyers chastising of players publicly and his demeanor in general. It cannot be good for the atmosphere around the place. One can only assume TS/ Roddy are ok with it?
I actually don’t like the man now, arrogant & a bully!
Lost the players because of his constant slating, never takes the blame himself. A good manager would deflect criticism away from the team. Now it appears he has lost them! Definitely the Mourinho effect! Goes pear shaped in the third season! As for setting up a team he is clueless. The gap between the defence & midfield is why we concede so many long distance goals! Jackson’s career is on the line too by association but if he is in on the decisions too then fair enough. If we lose to Wigan we are in some serious shit! Is this really the man TS wants representing his club?!
I doubt they are ok with it. What we have learned is that sacking Bowyer will blow a massive hole in the League One budget. Money that wasn't part of the plan to spend. IMO Bowyer has (proverbial) the club over.
This is very sad because Bowyer wasn't always like this, but whilst he is in the job he may do something that deserves a proper sacking. He does have a history of it after all.
I doubt they are ok with it. What we have learned is that sacking Bowyer will blow a massive hole in the League One budget. Money that wasn't part of the plan to spend. IMO Bowyer has (proverbial) the club over.
This is very sad because Bowyer wasn't always like this, but whilst he is in the job he may do something that deserves a proper sacking. He does have a history of it after all.
The playoffs are only reasonably attainable if we do a complete 180. Doing a 180 from this position requires a change in leadership. Therefore if we're not making the change, we won't get playoffs. If we don't get playoffs, then the target hasn't been met and a change in leadership is required.
Bowyer obviously disagrees with the second premise. Or maybe Thomas will accept Bowyer's argument that it's not his fault if we don't achieve playoffs. But those are the only two ways we go into next season under the same management, I think.
He can make personal attacks on players and fans and not take any responsibility for it or poor performances and clueless tactics and yet some think that is fine.
I don't think Bowyer has any intention to have the club over a barrel.
He is fighting for his career too. I think that is his ONLY reason to not have walked. He needs to turn things around for himself and his future in management.
It's not working out and Bowyer is desperate to convince everyone that it is not his fault, in doing so he is alienating the players, because if he isn't taking on any responsibility, he is throwing the players under the bus.
This is why he needs to go. Let's not continue calling him names for being in a desperate situation.
Get rid and move on, before all the memories have soured.
I doubt they are ok with it. What we have learned is that sacking Bowyer will blow a massive hole in the League One budget. Money that wasn't part of the plan to spend. IMO Bowyer has (proverbial) the club over.
This is very sad because Bowyer wasn't always like this, but whilst he is in the job he may do something that deserves a proper sacking. He does have a history of it after all.
No. Not having that. They're holding off sacking a man that is not only not getting results but is slowly destroying the squad behind the scenes to save a few quid to buy some more players next season?
Can't see it. If the above is true then the best thing that could do with that money is get rid asap. It would be an untenable situation and I don't think we're there yet.
The moment the playoffs are not mathematically achievable. Thomas I reckon will pull the trigger. It looks good for him in the long run that he backs his manager over us losing our shit on Social Media:)
How I see it. He's set a target. If it's not met then thanks and goodbye.
I suppose Thomas sees it as fair. There can be no arguments and maybe the realism of being kicked out might make Bowyer get his act together. Not seen enough to suggest he can turn this around though tbh. Also give TS more time to get a decent replacement lined up
The worry for me is Bowyers chastising of players publicly and his demeanor in general. It cannot be good for the atmosphere around the place. One can only assume TS/ Roddy are ok with it?
Not entirely sure that's true. It could be, but equally it's valid that getting rid of Bowyer is only part of the issue - there is also replacing him. Whoever they go with will need to not only be someone who can turn things around on the pitch but clear the air and improve the atmosphere.
Getting someone who is 1) capable of doing so and 2) is available is something to consider very carefully as they absolutely won't want to become a Watford style hire-and-fire outfit.
I don't know if (for argument's sake) Euell could/would want to face that as a first time manager for example, especially if it ends up being as a stop gap anyway.
I think it's meaningful that Sandgaard has not commented himself yet. I just don't know exactly what it means.
In the Brazillian league, the saying is any manager is three games away from the sack at all times. I have a feeling this is the stage LB is at now, if we lose tomorrow and Sat that might be the end and surely any playoff hopes will be gone totally.
Relegation is the possibility now if he doesn't go. He has apparently insinuated that players are not playing because they want more money now the wage cap has ended. If that is true, and I think it is doubtful, how can he talk?
There is one person who I would absolutely love to be our Manager.
One because he is the son of one of the greatest motivators of all time, two because he has an understanding of the game from non league to international level and three because he is a family man who has demonstrated an appetite for sticking with a club. Sadly, I think it is, perhaps, his reluctance to move out of area that might be the issue but if TS were to be able to sell him his long term vision then I am convinced he would be the solution especially as he has a reputation for being able to work with Chairmen.
He played for Forest, Liverpool and Man City as well as England but here's his Managerial CV:
In his first two seasons he was runners up in the Southern League with record points for a 2nd placed side. The second year they were pipped by Fatty Evans at Boston who it turned out had been massively cheating. Year 3 he was promoted, again with record points and record goals.
They then played in the Conference as the only part time club, training twice a week, while they built the Pirelli.
Once they drew Man Utd in the cup they went full time and finished 7th, 5th (beaten by Cambridge in the p/o semis) and the next season they were top and clear by 13 points winning a record 12 games on the spin.
At Derby he cut the wage bill from 38 million to just under 10 million and built a squad capable of pushing for the play offs despite having to generate his own transfer budget. 10 of the 11 who started the Play Off final were his signings.
At Sheff Utd, he took them from 3rd bottom to 7th and an FA Cup semi in his first half season and then finished 5th and got them to a league cup semi in his 2nd. They had the 4th highest budget in League One but a lot of that budget came from cup runs and the Harry Maguire sale to Hull. He also signed Che Adams from Ilkeston for £250k and Adams on his own made a profit in excess of all of his transfer dealings.
He then took over at Burton and were only ever out of the top 2 for one week, narrowly missing out going up as Champions. He then survived a season in the Championship despite having by far the lowest budget.
When he joined Mansfield this season they had not won a single match from their first 14 games and were staring relegation in the face - since then they have won 10, drawn 8 and lost 4 in all competitions and are 11 points above the relegation zone. And until he got injured, one of LB's discards, George Lapslie, had been thriving under him with 6 goals and 2 assists.
He has brought through shedloads of youngsters in his time and also, unlike virtually all our Managers in living memory, has taken teams on Cup runs - as we so painfully know when his Sheffield United side knocked us out of the FA Cup to reach the semi final despite being a third tier side.
Oh and his name is Nigel Clough for those that hadn't worked that out already. But I've probably just wasted 15 minutes of my life writing this for the very reasons I set out at the outset - family and loyalty to the club he is at.
Relegation is the possibility now if he doesn't go. He has apparently insinuated that players are not playing because they want more money now the wage cap has ended. If that is true, and I think it is doubtful, how can he talk?
I think we do need to get clarification on what he was referring to when he mentioned the reason players aren't performing but I didn't invent the explanation.
I did say if that is true rather than it 100% was. What was he referring to as the problem?
Comments
It's sad to see
Bowyer is a bit to blame, but only if you want to say he is loyal. If not he was merely using the situation to benefit himself which isn't a crime. He knew he had Southall over a barrel. Of course on a professional level, nobody would begrudge Bowyer these wages when earned and playing in one division off the top one, but he isn't performing now and clearly is benefitting more than he should for failure.
Southall is a bit to blame as on top of being a crook, he was a useless chairman and at this time we have later found out that things were certainly not as he wanted us to think. There should have been relegation clauses in the contract that meant we didn't find ourselves in this situation.
The only person who isn't to blame in this mess IMO is Thomas. None of us can call on him to sack Bowyer given the situation. I do think this nonsense that Bowyer is out for anybody but himself has to be put to bed though. He knows he is failing and he knows his driver is money not loyalty.
Why do you feel sorry for that player whoever that may be though? You don’t know what was said in the dressing room do you? He may have put his hands up and said sorry boss down to me and the reply ‘Yep and you won’t be playing in the next game, you need a break’. Hopefully that was one to one though.
I agree that some of those players haven’t lived up to expectations but that doesn’t excuse not doing what you’ve been asked to and working on in training. Those players need to take more responsibility for their actions and if not they get a time out.
To be clear, I’m not currently a ‘Bowyer supporter’ and I won’t dispute things are pretty crap at the moment. But what I’m also seeing is akin to how political supporters of the opposition constantly look to debunk, dismiss and demonise everything to do with whoever is the prime minister. I just can’t believe the escalated scale in which every comment decision etc is OTT scrutinised and slated, or viewpoints repetitively repeated.
i get people are unhappy, I get some people want change and I don’t necessarily disagree with any of that. I just don’t understand how he has lost some of you SO much after such difficult, and previously successful periods.
I suppose Thomas sees it as fair. There can be no arguments and maybe the realism of being kicked out might make Bowyer get his act together. Not seen enough to suggest he can turn this around though tbh.
Also give TS more time to get a decent replacement lined up
The worry for me is Bowyers chastising of players publicly and his demeanor in general. It cannot be good for the atmosphere around the place. One can only assume TS/ Roddy are ok with it?
This is very sad because Bowyer wasn't always like this, but whilst he is in the job he may do something that deserves a proper sacking. He does have a history of it after all.
Bowyer obviously disagrees with the second premise. Or maybe Thomas will accept Bowyer's argument that it's not his fault if we don't achieve playoffs. But those are the only two ways we go into next season under the same management, I think.
He is fighting for his career too. I think that is his ONLY reason to not have walked. He needs to turn things around for himself and his future in management.
It's not working out and Bowyer is desperate to convince everyone that it is not his fault, in doing so he is alienating the players, because if he isn't taking on any responsibility, he is throwing the players under the bus.
This is why he needs to go. Let's not continue calling him names for being in a desperate situation.
Get rid and move on, before all the memories have soured.
Can't see it. If the above is true then the best thing that could do with that money is get rid asap. It would be an untenable situation and I don't think we're there yet.
Getting someone who is 1) capable of doing so and 2) is available is something to consider very carefully as they absolutely won't want to become a Watford style hire-and-fire outfit.
I don't know if (for argument's sake) Euell could/would want to face that as a first time manager for example, especially if it ends up being as a stop gap anyway.
I think it's meaningful that Sandgaard has not commented himself yet. I just don't know exactly what it means.
One because he is the son of one of the greatest motivators of all time, two because he has an understanding of the game from non league to international level and three because he is a family man who has demonstrated an appetite for sticking with a club. Sadly, I think it is, perhaps, his reluctance to move out of area that might be the issue but if TS were to be able to sell him his long term vision then I am convinced he would be the solution especially as he has a reputation for being able to work with Chairmen.
He played for Forest, Liverpool and Man City as well as England but here's his Managerial CV:
In his first two seasons he was runners up in the Southern League with record points for a 2nd placed side. The second year they were pipped by Fatty Evans at Boston who it turned out had been massively cheating. Year 3 he was promoted, again with record points and record goals.
They then played in the Conference as the only part time club, training twice a week, while they built the Pirelli.
Once they drew Man Utd in the cup they went full time and finished 7th, 5th (beaten by Cambridge in the p/o semis) and the next season they were top and clear by 13 points winning a record 12 games on the spin.
At Derby he cut the wage bill from 38 million to just under 10 million and built a squad capable of pushing for the play offs despite having to generate his own transfer budget. 10 of the 11 who started the Play Off final were his signings.
At Sheff Utd, he took them from 3rd bottom to 7th and an FA Cup semi in his first half season and then finished 5th and got them to a league cup semi in his 2nd. They had the 4th highest budget in League One but a lot of that budget came from cup runs and the Harry Maguire sale to Hull. He also signed Che Adams from Ilkeston for £250k and Adams on his own made a profit in excess of all of his transfer dealings.
He then took over at Burton and were only ever out of the top 2 for one week, narrowly missing out going up as Champions. He then survived a season in the Championship despite having by far the lowest budget.
When he joined Mansfield this season they had not won a single match from their first 14 games and were staring relegation in the face - since then they have won 10, drawn 8 and lost 4 in all competitions and are 11 points above the relegation zone. And until he got injured, one of LB's discards, George Lapslie, had been thriving under him with 6 goals and 2 assists.
He has brought through shedloads of youngsters in his time and also, unlike virtually all our Managers in living memory, has taken teams on Cup runs - as we so painfully know when his Sheffield United side knocked us out of the FA Cup to reach the semi final despite being a third tier side.
Oh and his name is Nigel Clough for those that hadn't worked that out already. But I've probably just wasted 15 minutes of my life writing this for the very reasons I set out at the outset - family and loyalty to the club he is at.
I did say if that is true rather than it 100% was. What was he referring to as the problem?