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Has Bowyer lost it?
Comments
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Yes, I'd be ok if any of it was as isolated thing. Halo's can slip and it can be a learning point. We have all probably said things we regret at some point. If Bowyer came out and admitted he had got things wrong, said he was going to apologise to his players and create a fresh start, I would be ok too.
But I am looking at this from how players would look at it and I don't think our on the pitch issues can be pointed at them. Ultimately, Bowyer can't go out on the pitch with his coaching staff and win us any games. It is the team that can do that, and they are not a bad squad for League One. Top 6 easily.0 -
I think the complete opposite is happening. ‘The players all are shit and this is only one persons fault’MuttleyCAFC said:It seems you can criticise the players all you like and even call them unprofessional and rubbish as many Bowyer supporters have done, but you can't do the same to him if you believe he is the problem.
the reality is a lot of people want him out for many different reasons. Your just all inadvertently contradict each other.This is a perfect example of finding it easy to point out negatives over any positives.0 -
If we're being honest, this site was up in arms after Bowyer's comments about the fans at the MK Dons match. He came out and 'clarified' those remarks because someone would have told him about the backlash.
It wasn't an attack on fans per se, but it was yet another example of his deflection away from taking any blame or criticism. And, if he thought the crowd was negative then, he'd be in for a very rude awakening if fans were in the ground at the moment.13 -
If players have a problem with the manager who do you think they would go to about it?
Jackson? Roddy?0 -
But I only wanted him out when he started being ultra negative and digging out players. I was very positive towards him before that.2
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Quote button is your friend Mutts, hard to keep up with who you are responding to without the use of it.MuttleyCAFC said:But I only wanted him out when he started being ultra negative and digging out players. I was very positive towards him before that.3 -
Apologies. I don't think it is hard to work out the point I am making though whether you agree with it or not.se9addick said:
Quote button is your friend Mutts, hard to keep up with who you are responding to without the use of it.MuttleyCAFC said:But I only wanted him out when he started being ultra negative and digging out players. I was very positive towards him before that.
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Very good point or one that once again just points to the post-match LB V the Monday LB?!Addickhead86 said:
I don't understand how players can be trying but also not care.0 -
No. I quoted his post and specifically stated that he did not personally attack fans, and provided a link to what he actually said.se9addick said:
But you by your own admission have quoted the post by @muttleycafc where he did accuse Bowyer of “personal attacks on ... fans”, you literally just wrote it.FishCostaFortune said:
Wow. Did you not read anything I or even MuttleyCAFC just wrote. It's utterly bemusing to me how quick posters are on here to get outraged and attack others.se9addick said:
For goodness sake, that’s supposed to be a “personal attack” against fans? We’re just making stuff up to use against him now aren’t we?FishCostaFortune said:
https://talksport.com/football/efl/798777/lee-bowyer-negative-charlton-fans-mk-dons-left-early/se9addick said:
“Personal attacks on...fans”? When was that?MuttleyCAFC said:He can make personal attacks on players and fans and not take any responsibility for it or poor performances and clueless tactics and yet some think that is fine.
I wouldn't say what Bowyer said was personal, though I am sure some fans took it that way, but it is another example of him looking to deflect blame.
I think Bowyer should go because the results have gone against him, our league position isn’t good enough and he doesn’t appear to be able to turn it around.Let’s leave all the other nonsense out.
I'll run you through what happened:
Muttley said:
'He can make personal attacks on players and fans and not take any responsibility for it or poor performances and clueless tactics and yet some think that is fine.'
You then asked:
'“Personal attacks on...fans”? When was that?'
I then referred to what Muttley was likely talking about, and even said 'I wouldn't say what Bowyer said was personal' - though if you look at the reactions to what was said by fans on this very forum a lot of them took massive exception to this.
Muttley then even went on to say his quote was meant to read as:
'Sorry, personal attacks on players and attacks on fans.'
And then you decided to excuse people of talking nonsense and making stuff up! Which then seems to get a bunch of likes even though no one actually excused Bowyer of making personal attacks on fans,
Unique.I haven’t “decided to excuse (accuse?)” people of anything, I asked Muttley to clarify and he has subsequently stated that the “personal attacks” on fans never happened.
That’s the risk here, people seem to be writing hundreds of words on this subject and they are doing so from a place of emotion. That is leading them to say silly things which really undermines their credibility, it’s like texting an ex at 2am when you’ve had a few - it will make you feel better in the moment but in the cold light of day you look ridiculous. Someone said earlier that people should take a breath before posting, I think that’s good advice.
Under that post Muttley even said he didn't mean 'personally attack'.
10 minutes after this you excuse me of talking nonsense and making stuff up. Perhaps you should take a breath, and read previous posts before jumping in?
Also what have I actually made up here.
Did Bowyer blame fans for not getting behind the team for a poor performance. Yes.
Are these personal attacks. No.
Did many fans on here and on social media take exception to this still. Yes.
Was this deflecting away from the root cause of the performance. Yes.
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OkFishCostaFortune said:
No. I quoted his post and specifically stated that he did not personally attack fans, and provided a link to what he actually said.se9addick said:
But you by your own admission have quoted the post by @muttleycafc where he did accuse Bowyer of “personal attacks on ... fans”, you literally just wrote it.FishCostaFortune said:
Wow. Did you not read anything I or even MuttleyCAFC just wrote. It's utterly bemusing to me how quick posters are on here to get outraged and attack others.se9addick said:
For goodness sake, that’s supposed to be a “personal attack” against fans? We’re just making stuff up to use against him now aren’t we?FishCostaFortune said:
https://talksport.com/football/efl/798777/lee-bowyer-negative-charlton-fans-mk-dons-left-early/se9addick said:
“Personal attacks on...fans”? When was that?MuttleyCAFC said:He can make personal attacks on players and fans and not take any responsibility for it or poor performances and clueless tactics and yet some think that is fine.
I wouldn't say what Bowyer said was personal, though I am sure some fans took it that way, but it is another example of him looking to deflect blame.
I think Bowyer should go because the results have gone against him, our league position isn’t good enough and he doesn’t appear to be able to turn it around.Let’s leave all the other nonsense out.
I'll run you through what happened:
Muttley said:
'He can make personal attacks on players and fans and not take any responsibility for it or poor performances and clueless tactics and yet some think that is fine.'
You then asked:
'“Personal attacks on...fans”? When was that?'
I then referred to what Muttley was likely talking about, and even said 'I wouldn't say what Bowyer said was personal' - though if you look at the reactions to what was said by fans on this very forum a lot of them took massive exception to this.
Muttley then even went on to say his quote was meant to read as:
'Sorry, personal attacks on players and attacks on fans.'
And then you decided to excuse people of talking nonsense and making stuff up! Which then seems to get a bunch of likes even though no one actually excused Bowyer of making personal attacks on fans,
Unique.I haven’t “decided to excuse (accuse?)” people of anything, I asked Muttley to clarify and he has subsequently stated that the “personal attacks” on fans never happened.
That’s the risk here, people seem to be writing hundreds of words on this subject and they are doing so from a place of emotion. That is leading them to say silly things which really undermines their credibility, it’s like texting an ex at 2am when you’ve had a few - it will make you feel better in the moment but in the cold light of day you look ridiculous. Someone said earlier that people should take a breath before posting, I think that’s good advice.
Under that post Muttley even said he didn't mean 'personally attack'.
10 minutes after this you excuse me of talking nonsense and making stuff up. Perhaps you should take a breath, and read previous posts before jumping in?
Also what have I actually made up here.
Did Bowyer blame fans for not getting behind the team for a poor performance. Yes.
Are these personal attacks. No.
Did many fans on here and on social media take exception to this still. Yes.
Was this deflecting away from the root cause of the performance. Yes.2 -
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'It is what it is' as Lee would say - i don't hate LB and i don't think he is doing anything any other manager would do in this situation - he's in a poor run of form and until told otherwise - and given the mandatory payout - which is fair enough - he will keep on trying to turn things round. I don't have an issue with any of that but I do what him replaced because i don't think he has done a good job since things went a bit wonky over a year ago and i have no confidence that he is the man to oversee the re build, based on what i have seen for over a year. He should not be the victim of any abuse or any undue pressure to go - he has earnt the right to the payout. The ball is in TS's court and personally i think that once we can no longer get into the playoffs, TS will pull the trigger - and hopefully have a replacement lined up.5
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I thought I would check in and see what is happening. Went back to page 144.
Fourteen odd Mutley contributions and nothing new.
A lot more upset obviously. In TS we trust. We have to.1 -
Indeed!SoundAsa£ said:
“Be careful with that axe Eugene.”EugenesAxe said:The defenition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome: in this case LB and his man management.
Pink Floyd.
Ummagumma.
1969.
Axe.....slang word for a guitar, much used by musos and road crews.
I thought I'd use it as my little nod to Thomas 'the Axeman cometh'1 -
If players have a problem with the manager who do you think they would go to about it?
Jackson? Roddy?0 -
Charlton Life 😉carly burn said:If players have a problem with the manager who do you think they would go to about it?
Jackson? Roddy?12 -
Looking at our results in January and February I am really surprised (to put it politely) that he is still our manager. WHY has he not been sacked ? Wake up Sandy1
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Are you Omar Bogle? 😂MuttleyCAFC said:But I only wanted him out when he started being ultra negative and digging out players. I was very positive towards him before that.0 -
What positives?esseffect said:
I think the complete opposite is happening. ‘The players all are shit and this is only one persons fault’MuttleyCAFC said:It seems you can criticise the players all you like and even call them unprofessional and rubbish as many Bowyer supporters have done, but you can't do the same to him if you believe he is the problem.
the reality is a lot of people want him out for many different reasons. Your just all inadvertently contradict each other.This is a perfect example of finding it easy to point out negatives over any positives.
What we are seeing on the pitch is not a direct result of anything that's happened over the last year off the pitch. We can argue back and forth quite how good the players are, or aren't. One thing we probably all can agree on is the players are better than a relegation battle to avoid the 4th tier. Which if nothing changes, we will be in, in a few weeks time.
Even last season you could take the positives of the Doughty, Bonne and Philips cementing their places as 1st team players and becoming sellable assets (which this club has always relied upon).
We are going to go into the summer with even less players under contract than last summer.7 -
No that's me :-)Leaburn Forever said:
Are you Omar Bogle? 😂MuttleyCAFC said:But I only wanted him out when he started being ultra negative and digging out players. I was very positive towards him before that.2 -
I'm Omar Bogle!4
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Leuth said:I'm Naby Sarr
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I'm Omar Bogle, and so is my wife!10
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The shit squad theory? Where does that come from?
Apart from Morgan,Matsaan,Millar and Schwartz all of them have shown proven ability at this level and higher.
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Agreed, there's a real lack of saleable assets. Normally in a struggling team there's usually at least someone who's stepped up, but instead our best performers are loan players or out of contract.Cafc43v3r said:
What positives?esseffect said:
I think the complete opposite is happening. ‘The players all are shit and this is only one persons fault’MuttleyCAFC said:It seems you can criticise the players all you like and even call them unprofessional and rubbish as many Bowyer supporters have done, but you can't do the same to him if you believe he is the problem.
the reality is a lot of people want him out for many different reasons. Your just all inadvertently contradict each other.This is a perfect example of finding it easy to point out negatives over any positives.
What we are seeing on the pitch is not a direct result of anything that's happened over the last year off the pitch. We can argue back and forth quite how good the players are, or aren't. One thing we probably all can agree on is the players are better than a relegation battle to avoid the 4th tier. Which if nothing changes, we will be in, in a few weeks time.
Even last season you could take the positives of the Doughty, Bonne and Philips cementing their places as 1st team players and becoming sellable assets (which this club has always relied upon).
We are going to go into the summer with even less players under contract than last summer.
The players we've signed on contracts beyond the summer - Washington, Gilbey, Gunter, Innis, DJ, Schwartz - none of them will have rival clubs fighting over them if we don't go up, either because of their injury record (Inniss) or their performances for us0 -
Inniss hasn’t been in the team long enough to get shit5
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It's not the fact you want to sell them, this summer, it's the fact you want to build your team around them next season.killerandflash said:
Agreed, there's a real lack of saleable assets. Normally in a struggling team there's usually at least someone who's stepped up, but instead our best performers are loan players or out of contract.Cafc43v3r said:
What positives?esseffect said:
I think the complete opposite is happening. ‘The players all are shit and this is only one persons fault’MuttleyCAFC said:It seems you can criticise the players all you like and even call them unprofessional and rubbish as many Bowyer supporters have done, but you can't do the same to him if you believe he is the problem.
the reality is a lot of people want him out for many different reasons. Your just all inadvertently contradict each other.This is a perfect example of finding it easy to point out negatives over any positives.
What we are seeing on the pitch is not a direct result of anything that's happened over the last year off the pitch. We can argue back and forth quite how good the players are, or aren't. One thing we probably all can agree on is the players are better than a relegation battle to avoid the 4th tier. Which if nothing changes, we will be in, in a few weeks time.
Even last season you could take the positives of the Doughty, Bonne and Philips cementing their places as 1st team players and becoming sellable assets (which this club has always relied upon).
We are going to go into the summer with even less players under contract than last summer.
The players we've signed on contracts beyond the summer - Washington, Gilbey, Gunter, Innis, DJ, Schwartz - none of them will have rival clubs fighting over them if we don't go up, either because of their injury record (Inniss) or their performances for us
Even "doing a Powell" ment keeping Solly, Jackson and BWP in the first team and Doughty, Wagstaff and Benson as squad players at the start. Plus the keeper situation didn't come to a head until the season stated so that would have been another player.0 -
His injury record is worse than Johnny Williams'soohaahmortimer said:Inniss hasn’t been in the team long enough to get shit1 -
It comes from it can't possibly be Bowyers fault.carly burn said:The shit squad theory? Where does that come from?
Apart from Morgan,Matsaan,Millar and Schwartz all of them have shown proven ability at this level and higher.0 -
hatrick of posts for Cafc43v3r 👏👏👏9
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What I meant was that, while you don't want to sell your best players, it's a positive sign that other clubs would want to sign them, as that shows that your player recruitment AND development are working.Cafc43v3r said:
It's not the fact you want to sell them, this summer, it's the fact you want to build your team around them next season.killerandflash said:
Agreed, there's a real lack of saleable assets. Normally in a struggling team there's usually at least someone who's stepped up, but instead our best performers are loan players or out of contract.Cafc43v3r said:
What positives?esseffect said:
I think the complete opposite is happening. ‘The players all are shit and this is only one persons fault’MuttleyCAFC said:It seems you can criticise the players all you like and even call them unprofessional and rubbish as many Bowyer supporters have done, but you can't do the same to him if you believe he is the problem.
the reality is a lot of people want him out for many different reasons. Your just all inadvertently contradict each other.This is a perfect example of finding it easy to point out negatives over any positives.
What we are seeing on the pitch is not a direct result of anything that's happened over the last year off the pitch. We can argue back and forth quite how good the players are, or aren't. One thing we probably all can agree on is the players are better than a relegation battle to avoid the 4th tier. Which if nothing changes, we will be in, in a few weeks time.
Even last season you could take the positives of the Doughty, Bonne and Philips cementing their places as 1st team players and becoming sellable assets (which this club has always relied upon).
We are going to go into the summer with even less players under contract than last summer.
The players we've signed on contracts beyond the summer - Washington, Gilbey, Gunter, Innis, DJ, Schwartz - none of them will have rival clubs fighting over them if we don't go up, either because of their injury record (Inniss) or their performances for us
Even "doing a Powell" ment keeping Solly, Jackson and BWP in the first team and Doughty, Wagstaff and Benson as squad players at the start. Plus the keeper situation didn't come to a head until the season stated so that would have been another player.
Brentford has consistently sold players at a big profit, both because their recruitment is very good, but also because they then improve them. How much value has Toney put on in 6 months?1
This discussion has been closed.
