It seems you can criticise the players all you like and even call them unprofessional and rubbish as many Bowyer supporters have done, but you can't do the same to him if you believe he is the problem.
LB is the master of deflection. He holds his hands up and says that he has to take the blame as well as the accolades. But there always follows an explanation as to why it wasn't his fault - it's usually "we set 'em up right then x or y or z makes a mistake. I can't control them things". He goes into far more detail as to what player "X" did wrong rather than what actually he did wrong.
We never him say, for example, that he picked the wrong team more that he had to make two, three or even four subs at half time because they weren't "doing it". He will never miss an opportunity to hang a player out to dry - think Taylor, Solly, Bonne, Maddison, Bogle, Phillips, Morgan, Williams, Pearce, Gilbey, Washington etc etc.
But the likes of Gunter, Watson and Pratley are untouchable. It really doesn't matter how many mistakes they make - and they've made quite a few between them this season. It was his decision on Saturday to leave Pratley on the pitch. Has he admitted that, knowing he was one mistimed tackle away from being sent off, it was his and Pratley's fault for that?
This is who he actually blamed in his post match interview on Saturday:
The defence for giving away an early goal The officials "for killing them" "Pratley, second yellow, think that's harsh. To be fair the lads wiped him out and he's fallen on him. Don't think that there was anything malicious" "Then Chuks' red, it was just one decision after another" "2nd goal disappointing, fella runs 20 yards without anyone challenging him" "Washington's come in but did I see him scream out at me like 'I'm gonna play next game'? I didn't see that" "Think they're feeling sorry for themselves"
He goes on to say that players aren't taking their opportunities and then be playing for the next six games. But on the occasions when they do take that opportunity, we've seen the "R" word come out as the reason for them being taken out of the side for the very next game.
Yet not one word on what he, himself, did wrong on Saturday.
It seems you can criticise the players all you like and even call them unprofessional and rubbish as many Bowyer supporters have done, but you can't do the same to him if you believe he is the problem.
Think that’s unfair. You’re the main voice on this thread, posting twice as much as anybody else, and rarely are you being disagreed with, most people are in fact in agreement with you. It’s only the latest comment about attacks on fans which a couple of us have said that’s not quite right, you even just replied to my reply saying if it was only the fans thing in isolation you’d be okay.
It seems you can criticise the players all you like and even call them unprofessional and rubbish as many Bowyer supporters have done, but you can't do the same to him if you believe he is the problem.
Well you’re certainly making a good job at it.
Incidentally ....... care to explain your assertion re him digging out the fans?
He can make personal attacks on players and fans and not take any responsibility for it or poor performances and clueless tactics and yet some think that is fine.
I wouldn't say what Bowyer said was personal, though I am sure some fans took it that way, but it is another example of him looking to deflect blame.
For goodness sake, that’s supposed to be a “personal attack” against fans? We’re just making stuff up to use against him now aren’t we?
I think Bowyer should go because the results have gone against him, our league position isn’t good enough and he doesn’t appear to be able to turn it around.
Let’s leave all the other nonsense out.
Wow. Did you not read anything I or even MuttleyCAFC just wrote. It's utterly bemusing to me how quick posters are on here to get outraged and attack others.
I'll run you through what happened:
Muttley said:
'He can make personal attacks on players and fans and not take any responsibility for it or poor performances and clueless tactics and yet some think that is fine.'
You then asked:
'“Personal attacks on...fans”? When was that?'
I then referred to what Muttley was likely talking about, and even said 'I wouldn't say what Bowyer said was personal' - though if you look at the reactions to what was said by fans on this very forum a lot of them took massive exception to this.
Muttley then even went on to say his quote was meant to read as:
'Sorry, personal attacks on players and attacks on fans.'
And then you decided to excuse people of talking nonsense and making stuff up! Which then seems to get a bunch of likes even though no one actually excused Bowyer of making personal attacks on fans,
Unique.
But you by your own admission have quoted the post by @muttleycafc where he did accuse Bowyer of “personal attacks on ... fans”, you literally just wrote it.
I haven’t “decided to excuse (accuse?)” people of anything, I asked Muttley to clarify and he has subsequently stated that the “personal attacks” on fans never happened.
That’s the risk here, people seem to be writing hundreds of words on this subject and they are doing so from a place of emotion. That is leading them to say silly things which really undermines their credibility, it’s like texting an ex at 2am when you’ve had a few - it will make you feel better in the moment but in the cold light of day you look ridiculous. Someone said earlier that people should take a breath before posting, I think that’s good advice.
Yes, I'd be ok if any of it was as isolated thing. Halo's can slip and it can be a learning point. We have all probably said things we regret at some point. If Bowyer came out and admitted he had got things wrong, said he was going to apologise to his players and create a fresh start, I would be ok too.
But I am looking at this from how players would look at it and I don't think our on the pitch issues can be pointed at them. Ultimately, Bowyer can't go out on the pitch with his coaching staff and win us any games. It is the team that can do that, and they are not a bad squad for League One. Top 6 easily.
It seems you can criticise the players all you like and even call them unprofessional and rubbish as many Bowyer supporters have done, but you can't do the same to him if you believe he is the problem.
I think the complete opposite is happening. ‘The players all are shit and this is only one persons fault’
the reality is a lot of people want him out for many different reasons. Your just all inadvertently contradict each other.
This is a perfect example of finding it easy to point out negatives over any positives.
If we're being honest, this site was up in arms after Bowyer's comments about the fans at the MK Dons match. He came out and 'clarified' those remarks because someone would have told him about the backlash.
It wasn't an attack on fans per se, but it was yet another example of his deflection away from taking any blame or criticism. And, if he thought the crowd was negative then, he'd be in for a very rude awakening if fans were in the ground at the moment.
He can make personal attacks on players and fans and not take any responsibility for it or poor performances and clueless tactics and yet some think that is fine.
I wouldn't say what Bowyer said was personal, though I am sure some fans took it that way, but it is another example of him looking to deflect blame.
For goodness sake, that’s supposed to be a “personal attack” against fans? We’re just making stuff up to use against him now aren’t we?
I think Bowyer should go because the results have gone against him, our league position isn’t good enough and he doesn’t appear to be able to turn it around.
Let’s leave all the other nonsense out.
Wow. Did you not read anything I or even MuttleyCAFC just wrote. It's utterly bemusing to me how quick posters are on here to get outraged and attack others.
I'll run you through what happened:
Muttley said:
'He can make personal attacks on players and fans and not take any responsibility for it or poor performances and clueless tactics and yet some think that is fine.'
You then asked:
'“Personal attacks on...fans”? When was that?'
I then referred to what Muttley was likely talking about, and even said 'I wouldn't say what Bowyer said was personal' - though if you look at the reactions to what was said by fans on this very forum a lot of them took massive exception to this.
Muttley then even went on to say his quote was meant to read as:
'Sorry, personal attacks on players and attacks on fans.'
And then you decided to excuse people of talking nonsense and making stuff up! Which then seems to get a bunch of likes even though no one actually excused Bowyer of making personal attacks on fans,
Unique.
But you by your own admission have quoted the post by @muttleycafc where he did accuse Bowyer of “personal attacks on ... fans”, you literally just wrote it.
I haven’t “decided to excuse (accuse?)” people of anything, I asked Muttley to clarify and he has subsequently stated that the “personal attacks” on fans never happened.
That’s the risk here, people seem to be writing hundreds of words on this subject and they are doing so from a place of emotion. That is leading them to say silly things which really undermines their credibility, it’s like texting an ex at 2am when you’ve had a few - it will make you feel better in the moment but in the cold light of day you look ridiculous. Someone said earlier that people should take a breath before posting, I think that’s good advice.
No. I quoted his post and specifically stated that he did not personally attack fans, and provided a link to what he actually said.
Under that post Muttley even said he didn't mean 'personally attack'.
10 minutes after this you excuse me of talking nonsense and making stuff up. Perhaps you should take a breath, and read previous posts before jumping in?
Also what have I actually made up here.
Did Bowyer blame fans for not getting behind the team for a poor performance. Yes.
Are these personal attacks. No.
Did many fans on here and on social media take exception to this still. Yes.
Was this deflecting away from the root cause of the performance. Yes.
He can make personal attacks on players and fans and not take any responsibility for it or poor performances and clueless tactics and yet some think that is fine.
I wouldn't say what Bowyer said was personal, though I am sure some fans took it that way, but it is another example of him looking to deflect blame.
For goodness sake, that’s supposed to be a “personal attack” against fans? We’re just making stuff up to use against him now aren’t we?
I think Bowyer should go because the results have gone against him, our league position isn’t good enough and he doesn’t appear to be able to turn it around.
Let’s leave all the other nonsense out.
Wow. Did you not read anything I or even MuttleyCAFC just wrote. It's utterly bemusing to me how quick posters are on here to get outraged and attack others.
I'll run you through what happened:
Muttley said:
'He can make personal attacks on players and fans and not take any responsibility for it or poor performances and clueless tactics and yet some think that is fine.'
You then asked:
'“Personal attacks on...fans”? When was that?'
I then referred to what Muttley was likely talking about, and even said 'I wouldn't say what Bowyer said was personal' - though if you look at the reactions to what was said by fans on this very forum a lot of them took massive exception to this.
Muttley then even went on to say his quote was meant to read as:
'Sorry, personal attacks on players and attacks on fans.'
And then you decided to excuse people of talking nonsense and making stuff up! Which then seems to get a bunch of likes even though no one actually excused Bowyer of making personal attacks on fans,
Unique.
But you by your own admission have quoted the post by @muttleycafc where he did accuse Bowyer of “personal attacks on ... fans”, you literally just wrote it.
I haven’t “decided to excuse (accuse?)” people of anything, I asked Muttley to clarify and he has subsequently stated that the “personal attacks” on fans never happened.
That’s the risk here, people seem to be writing hundreds of words on this subject and they are doing so from a place of emotion. That is leading them to say silly things which really undermines their credibility, it’s like texting an ex at 2am when you’ve had a few - it will make you feel better in the moment but in the cold light of day you look ridiculous. Someone said earlier that people should take a breath before posting, I think that’s good advice.
No. I quoted his post and specifically stated that he did not personally attack fans, and provided a link to what he actually said.
Under that post Muttley even said he didn't mean 'personally attack'.
10 minutes after this you excuse me of talking nonsense and making stuff up. Perhaps you should take a breath, and read previous posts before jumping in?
Also what have I actually made up here.
Did Bowyer blame fans for not getting behind the team for a poor performance. Yes.
Are these personal attacks. No.
Did many fans on here and on social media take exception to this still. Yes.
Was this deflecting away from the root cause of the performance. Yes.
'It is what it is' as Lee would say - i don't hate LB and i don't think he is doing anything any other manager would do in this situation - he's in a poor run of form and until told otherwise - and given the mandatory payout - which is fair enough - he will keep on trying to turn things round. I don't have an issue with any of that but I do what him replaced because i don't think he has done a good job since things went a bit wonky over a year ago and i have no confidence that he is the man to oversee the re build, based on what i have seen for over a year. He should not be the victim of any abuse or any undue pressure to go - he has earnt the right to the payout. The ball is in TS's court and personally i think that once we can no longer get into the playoffs, TS will pull the trigger - and hopefully have a replacement lined up.
I thought I would check in and see what is happening. Went back to page 144. Fourteen odd Mutley contributions and nothing new. A lot more upset obviously. In TS we trust. We have to.
Looking at our results in January and February I am really surprised (to put it politely) that he is still our manager. WHY has he not been sacked ? Wake up Sandy
It seems you can criticise the players all you like and even call them unprofessional and rubbish as many Bowyer supporters have done, but you can't do the same to him if you believe he is the problem.
I think the complete opposite is happening. ‘The players all are shit and this is only one persons fault’
the reality is a lot of people want him out for many different reasons. Your just all inadvertently contradict each other.
This is a perfect example of finding it easy to point out negatives over any positives.
What positives?
What we are seeing on the pitch is not a direct result of anything that's happened over the last year off the pitch. We can argue back and forth quite how good the players are, or aren't. One thing we probably all can agree on is the players are better than a relegation battle to avoid the 4th tier. Which if nothing changes, we will be in, in a few weeks time.
Even last season you could take the positives of the Doughty, Bonne and Philips cementing their places as 1st team players and becoming sellable assets (which this club has always relied upon).
We are going to go into the summer with even less players under contract than last summer.
It seems you can criticise the players all you like and even call them unprofessional and rubbish as many Bowyer supporters have done, but you can't do the same to him if you believe he is the problem.
I think the complete opposite is happening. ‘The players all are shit and this is only one persons fault’
the reality is a lot of people want him out for many different reasons. Your just all inadvertently contradict each other.
This is a perfect example of finding it easy to point out negatives over any positives.
What positives?
What we are seeing on the pitch is not a direct result of anything that's happened over the last year off the pitch. We can argue back and forth quite how good the players are, or aren't. One thing we probably all can agree on is the players are better than a relegation battle to avoid the 4th tier. Which if nothing changes, we will be in, in a few weeks time.
Even last season you could take the positives of the Doughty, Bonne and Philips cementing their places as 1st team players and becoming sellable assets (which this club has always relied upon).
We are going to go into the summer with even less players under contract than last summer.
Agreed, there's a real lack of saleable assets. Normally in a struggling team there's usually at least someone who's stepped up, but instead our best performers are loan players or out of contract.
The players we've signed on contracts beyond the summer - Washington, Gilbey, Gunter, Innis, DJ, Schwartz - none of them will have rival clubs fighting over them if we don't go up, either because of their injury record (Inniss) or their performances for us
Comments
We never him say, for example, that he picked the wrong team more that he had to make two, three or even four subs at half time because they weren't "doing it". He will never miss an opportunity to hang a player out to dry - think Taylor, Solly, Bonne, Maddison, Bogle, Phillips, Morgan, Williams, Pearce, Gilbey, Washington etc etc.
But the likes of Gunter, Watson and Pratley are untouchable. It really doesn't matter how many mistakes they make - and they've made quite a few between them this season. It was his decision on Saturday to leave Pratley on the pitch. Has he admitted that, knowing he was one mistimed tackle away from being sent off, it was his and Pratley's fault for that?
This is who he actually blamed in his post match interview on Saturday:
The defence for giving away an early goal
The officials "for killing them"
"Pratley, second yellow, think that's harsh. To be fair the lads wiped him out and he's fallen on him. Don't think that there was anything malicious"
"Then Chuks' red, it was just one decision after another"
"2nd goal disappointing, fella runs 20 yards without anyone challenging him"
"Washington's come in but did I see him scream out at me like 'I'm gonna play next game'? I didn't see that"
"Think they're feeling sorry for themselves"
He goes on to say that players aren't taking their opportunities and then be playing for the next six games. But on the occasions when they do take that opportunity, we've seen the "R" word come out as the reason for them being taken out of the side for the very next game.
Yet not one word on what he, himself, did wrong on Saturday.
Incidentally ....... care to explain your assertion re him digging out the fans?
That’s the risk here, people seem to be writing hundreds of words on this subject and they are doing so from a place of emotion. That is leading them to say silly things which really undermines their credibility, it’s like texting an ex at 2am when you’ve had a few - it will make you feel better in the moment but in the cold light of day you look ridiculous. Someone said earlier that people should take a breath before posting, I think that’s good advice.
But I am looking at this from how players would look at it and I don't think our on the pitch issues can be pointed at them. Ultimately, Bowyer can't go out on the pitch with his coaching staff and win us any games. It is the team that can do that, and they are not a bad squad for League One. Top 6 easily.
the reality is a lot of people want him out for many different reasons. Your just all inadvertently contradict each other.
It wasn't an attack on fans per se, but it was yet another example of his deflection away from taking any blame or criticism. And, if he thought the crowd was negative then, he'd be in for a very rude awakening if fans were in the ground at the moment.
Jackson? Roddy?
Under that post Muttley even said he didn't mean 'personally attack'.
10 minutes after this you excuse me of talking nonsense and making stuff up. Perhaps you should take a breath, and read previous posts before jumping in?
Also what have I actually made up here.
Did Bowyer blame fans for not getting behind the team for a poor performance. Yes.
Are these personal attacks. No.
Did many fans on here and on social media take exception to this still. Yes.
Was this deflecting away from the root cause of the performance. Yes.
Fourteen odd Mutley contributions and nothing new.
A lot more upset obviously. In TS we trust. We have to.
I thought I'd use it as my little nod to Thomas 'the Axeman cometh'
Jackson? Roddy?
What we are seeing on the pitch is not a direct result of anything that's happened over the last year off the pitch. We can argue back and forth quite how good the players are, or aren't. One thing we probably all can agree on is the players are better than a relegation battle to avoid the 4th tier. Which if nothing changes, we will be in, in a few weeks time.
Even last season you could take the positives of the Doughty, Bonne and Philips cementing their places as 1st team players and becoming sellable assets (which this club has always relied upon).
We are going to go into the summer with even less players under contract than last summer.
Apart from Morgan,Matsaan,Millar and Schwartz all of them have shown proven ability at this level and higher.
The players we've signed on contracts beyond the summer - Washington, Gilbey, Gunter, Innis, DJ, Schwartz - none of them will have rival clubs fighting over them if we don't go up, either because of their injury record (Inniss) or their performances for us