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Has Bowyer lost it?
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Well Karl is sitting pretty with Oxford one place above Charlton albeit on GD but with two games in hand. I wouldn’t want Robinson back but my point is that Charlton have a better squad than Robinson does and are performing worse. Now if anyone wants to argue that his squad is in fact better than ours then bring it on. We are comfortably mid table and look good value to stay there. I’ve no idea what’s not right at The Valley but something definitely is.Valley11 said:
I was thinking of Robinson. A well respected League 1 boss who was heralded when appointed.jakecafc said:
We didn't go through any big name managers.. They were all foreign no marks brought in by Roland the rat.Valley11 said:
Because he’s a decent manager. He’s proved that over the last two seasons. There have been mitigating circumstances this season, although I agree, those excuses are wearing thin.boggzy said:
Given your observations, I genuinely don't understand why you are still backing him.Valley11 said:Backed him and continue to do so but it’s worrying. We have a very good squad and they’ve looked devoid of ideas, shape or consistency.
Bowyer’s subs today were just bizarre.I get the feeling he doesn’t know what system to play, which means the players don’t know what to do either.
Consistency is the key and we just haven’t had any of it all season.
I’m just tired of the upheaval and mess of the last few years and don’t fancy more of it by binning off Bowywr and going through another cycle of big name/big reputation managers who want to change the squad AGAIN and don’t work out.
I think it’ll be very interesting to see what Thomas does. His first big decision, really. I hope he doesn’t bring in an unknown Dane, however well intentioned that might be.Who is out there that you’d realistically want instead of Bowyer?4 -
But say over 15 months we’ve lost so many good players starting after the play offs Bauer Aribo etc and it’s just been impossible to hold onto a core for any sustained period, it’s tough to have that turnover of quality player and keep finding the replacements. As we know player recruitment is far from a perfect science, I remember John Carver and Steve Walsh from Newcastle and Leicester being lorded as recruitment kings but they plateaued out. Maybe in the summer 1 or 2 inspirational signings could change everything.blackheathaddick said:GenevaCharlton said:
I know we are coming from different perspectives and we all want the best for Charlton. It’s just a discussion, but having faith in someone who has delivered for the most part under difficult circumstances and is having a bad run of form why isn’t that seen as a possible way out or not something that’s possible to understand / consider?hoof_it_up_to_benty said:I think Bowyer has lost it and I don't understand those who want to persevere with him. I desperately wanted him to succeed but there are no signs of improvement and it's all getting a bit depressing.
We're one of the worst sides in L1 at present based on form since December - far beyond a blip. There haven't been any convincing or fluent performances and our squad should be capable of better than this.
We can't just stick with Bowyer out of sentiment or the fear that the next manager might do even worse.
If you were TS would you trust Bowyer to launch a promotion campaign next season?Or in the last 15 months we've been woeful other than a brief good spell earlier this season . In which case the blip was the good form.Personally I thought we got promoted with a good bunch of players as I thought we should have. I think Bowyer lucked out with Gallacher and as soon as he left he had no idea how to arrest the slump and we played some awful, tactically inept, negative football which got us relegated, and this season we have continued in the same vein other than a brief positive blip.Yet despite all that I wanted him to stay, and succeed, because I felt he deserved the chance for not jumping ship when things were going well.He's had that chance. It's getting worse. I don't want him replaced today because I think someone else can come in and get us promoted. I want him removed so we have time to bring in a replacement who will have a full transfer window to build, and to work out how to get the best out of the players we do have.Finally it's def not about results for me. I'm used to us losing games. It's the performances. It's the utter lack of hope or expectation. It's never thinking we're going to turn up and win a game. It's knowing when we do win that we easily could have lost it. It's watching team after team outplay us. Every game. That is the thing that pushed me over about 5 games ago. Since then it's got much worse.2 -
Well for a start NOT a well respected league one manager. I’d take at this point a well respected Championship manager or aim even higher. It will be the man at the helm that ultimately gets us to where our owner wants. Make the next managerial appointment the biggest and most ambitious in our history would be my advice to Thomas. Pay peanuts. Get monkeys.Valley11 said:
I was thinking of Robinson. A well respected League 1 boss who was heralded when appointed.jakecafc said:
We didn't go through any big name managers.. They were all foreign no marks brought in by Roland the rat.Valley11 said:
Because he’s a decent manager. He’s proved that over the last two seasons. There have been mitigating circumstances this season, although I agree, those excuses are wearing thin.boggzy said:
Given your observations, I genuinely don't understand why you are still backing him.Valley11 said:Backed him and continue to do so but it’s worrying. We have a very good squad and they’ve looked devoid of ideas, shape or consistency.
Bowyer’s subs today were just bizarre.I get the feeling he doesn’t know what system to play, which means the players don’t know what to do either.
Consistency is the key and we just haven’t had any of it all season.
I’m just tired of the upheaval and mess of the last few years and don’t fancy more of it by binning off Bowywr and going through another cycle of big name/big reputation managers who want to change the squad AGAIN and don’t work out.
I think it’ll be very interesting to see what Thomas does. His first big decision, really. I hope he doesn’t bring in an unknown Dane, however well intentioned that might be.Who is out there that you’d realistically want instead of Bowyer?3 -
If you think about it it's mental really.GenevaCharlton said:
It’s an interesting thought that having a little time away maybe good for Bowyer and the team. As you say though in football especially if results and performances suddenly picked up that the conclusion would be that its time for him to go. Alas in football no one gets a mini sabbatical from a club.Cafc43v3r said:
In any normal walk of life Bowyer would of had a proper break after the summer window shut. It probably would have made the world of difference.UEAAddick said:Bowyer to me seems exhausted from what's gone on off the pitch.
The mess off the pitch began in Late November and lasted till September. That's around 9 months of uncertainty that nearly led to us going under.
The stress and uncertainty from that was a nightmare for fans, staff and players
Bowyer knew it early on when he did that interview for the Hull Game on sky last year. 9 months of not knowing what was going to happen would have damaging long term effect on anyone decision making and feelings towards their position.
This period also saw our best player and goalscorer refuse to play in a relegation battle, when as a manager you rely on these players to help you out in the bad times. If we had of stayed up, it would have given bowyer a huge boost and possibly rejuvenated him. Considering that would be just a big of an achievment as winning promotion and with Sangaard over him, imo we would comfortably mid table in the championship or at least giving it a right go.
Roland, Meire, Southall, Nimer, Farnell and Elliot and all the others have done huge damage long term that means that we have to plan long term, so I understand why people would want Bowyer to stay.
But tactically he has been bad this season. The chopping and changing of starting 11s just suggests no belief in the players he has and unsure on the team he has and a lot of that comes from long term off the pitch problems, not the whole reason but it's a huge factor.
I think we need a fresh start, who that is I don't know, but I don't think under Bowyer we're going up anytime soon
The reasons it's got to this stage are undeniable, but that doesn't change the fact we have.
Most of us are formed from situations as young adults, it's telling the amount of times he references getting dropped by Graham at Leeds. IMO Bowyer's solution to any football problem is work harder, try more things, try and be more clever with "wacky" formations.
If we stick with Bowyer through the summer he is going to get, what, a week off? Then come back and have to deal with 20 odd transfers?
If you going to do that give him April off although you run the risk of an up turn in performances "proving" he was the problem.
Obviously there are exceptions at both ends of the scale but generally speaking most managers seem to follow the same pattern.
Come in as a breath of fresh air. Pick a couple of players that were frozen out under the previous manager, drop a couple of the previous favourites. Up tick in results. Players looking happy etc etc. Injured players make a lazarus like return. Add a few of their players to the squad for the next season. That normally last 18 months to 2 years.
Then they start becoming more defensive in the media, what was once refreshing becomes stale. The challenges become burdens. They get sacked. Someone else, who probably went through exactly the same cycle a few months earlier comes in and repeats it all again.
Sacked manager rocks up somewhere else in 2 or 3 months time and starts the same cycle again.
Do they become bad managers, then good managers again? Almost certainly not. The fact people are happy to spend, in some cases, 10s of millions on transfer fees yet not give the most important employee a proper holiday, is quite frankly, bizarre.
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Cowley brothers would be great, they are looking for a league 1 club.3
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What even is a well respected League 1 manager? If they've been in this division for so long (like Robinson) then is probably because that's their level. If Bowyer is replaced then I hope it's with someone we can see growing with the club and being here in the long term.ShootersHillGuru said:
Well for a start NOT a well respected league one manager. I’d take at this point a well respected Championship manager or aim even higher. It will be the man at the helm that ultimately gets us to where our owner wants. Make the next managerial appointment the biggest and most ambitious in our history would be my advice to Thomas. Pay peanuts. Get monkeys.Valley11 said:
I was thinking of Robinson. A well respected League 1 boss who was heralded when appointed.jakecafc said:
We didn't go through any big name managers.. They were all foreign no marks brought in by Roland the rat.Valley11 said:
Because he’s a decent manager. He’s proved that over the last two seasons. There have been mitigating circumstances this season, although I agree, those excuses are wearing thin.boggzy said:
Given your observations, I genuinely don't understand why you are still backing him.Valley11 said:Backed him and continue to do so but it’s worrying. We have a very good squad and they’ve looked devoid of ideas, shape or consistency.
Bowyer’s subs today were just bizarre.I get the feeling he doesn’t know what system to play, which means the players don’t know what to do either.
Consistency is the key and we just haven’t had any of it all season.
I’m just tired of the upheaval and mess of the last few years and don’t fancy more of it by binning off Bowywr and going through another cycle of big name/big reputation managers who want to change the squad AGAIN and don’t work out.
I think it’ll be very interesting to see what Thomas does. His first big decision, really. I hope he doesn’t bring in an unknown Dane, however well intentioned that might be.Who is out there that you’d realistically want instead of Bowyer?2 -
But that's lower league football. Squad stability is a myth. Lincoln and Doncaster, for example, have had as high, if not higher, churn as us. Both have been held up as examples of clubs building for years.GenevaCharlton said:
But say over 15 months we’ve lost so many good players starting after the play offs Bauer Aribo etc and it’s just been impossible to hold onto a core for any sustained period, it’s tough to have that turnover of quality player and keep finding the replacements. As we know player recruitment is far from a perfect science, I remember John Carver and Steve Walsh from Newcastle and Leicester being lorded as recruitment kings but they plateaued out. Maybe in the summer 1 or 2 inspirational signings could change everything.blackheathaddick said:GenevaCharlton said:
I know we are coming from different perspectives and we all want the best for Charlton. It’s just a discussion, but having faith in someone who has delivered for the most part under difficult circumstances and is having a bad run of form why isn’t that seen as a possible way out or not something that’s possible to understand / consider?hoof_it_up_to_benty said:I think Bowyer has lost it and I don't understand those who want to persevere with him. I desperately wanted him to succeed but there are no signs of improvement and it's all getting a bit depressing.
We're one of the worst sides in L1 at present based on form since December - far beyond a blip. There haven't been any convincing or fluent performances and our squad should be capable of better than this.
We can't just stick with Bowyer out of sentiment or the fear that the next manager might do even worse.
If you were TS would you trust Bowyer to launch a promotion campaign next season?Or in the last 15 months we've been woeful other than a brief good spell earlier this season . In which case the blip was the good form.Personally I thought we got promoted with a good bunch of players as I thought we should have. I think Bowyer lucked out with Gallacher and as soon as he left he had no idea how to arrest the slump and we played some awful, tactically inept, negative football which got us relegated, and this season we have continued in the same vein other than a brief positive blip.Yet despite all that I wanted him to stay, and succeed, because I felt he deserved the chance for not jumping ship when things were going well.He's had that chance. It's getting worse. I don't want him replaced today because I think someone else can come in and get us promoted. I want him removed so we have time to bring in a replacement who will have a full transfer window to build, and to work out how to get the best out of the players we do have.Finally it's def not about results for me. I'm used to us losing games. It's the performances. It's the utter lack of hope or expectation. It's never thinking we're going to turn up and win a game. It's knowing when we do win that we easily could have lost it. It's watching team after team outplay us. Every game. That is the thing that pushed me over about 5 games ago. Since then it's got much worse.2 -
Ok, cheers. I’m in a different place to you and suspect the vast majority are (including Sandgaard), but appreciate you sharing your thoughtsGenevaCharlton said:
Barring something catastrophic ie sliding into relegation trouble I’d like to see how we start next season. As others have said I would write this season off and get some stability on the ins and outs hopefully.AFKABartram said:It is @GenevaCharlton and it’s very easy for fans to ‘make’ these decisions when it’s not them that actually have to make it and have a full insight into the other considerations and impacts attached to it (financial etc).
Interesting though on where roughly your trigger point is for not having faith in taking forward next year, as I’m hovering around mine.3 -
I’m sure it’s not as easy as I’m portraying but if Bowyer leaves then Thomas has to sell the club to a manager / Head Coach who wouldn’t normally give us a second thought. Certainly salary but also sell a joint vision of what the owner and the new man want to build together. Financial support in the transfer market with a blueprint including targets and expectations. Run the football club like you run your medical business Thomas by getting the very best people you can.Scoham said:
What even is a well respected League 1 manager? If they've been in this division for so long (like Robinson) then is probably because that's their level. If Bowyer is replaced then I hope it's with someone we can see growing with the club and being here in the long term.ShootersHillGuru said:
Well for a start NOT a well respected league one manager. I’d take at this point a well respected Championship manager or aim even higher. It will be the man at the helm that ultimately gets us to where our owner wants. Make the next managerial appointment the biggest and most ambitious in our history would be my advice to Thomas. Pay peanuts. Get monkeys.Valley11 said:
I was thinking of Robinson. A well respected League 1 boss who was heralded when appointed.jakecafc said:
We didn't go through any big name managers.. They were all foreign no marks brought in by Roland the rat.Valley11 said:
Because he’s a decent manager. He’s proved that over the last two seasons. There have been mitigating circumstances this season, although I agree, those excuses are wearing thin.boggzy said:
Given your observations, I genuinely don't understand why you are still backing him.Valley11 said:Backed him and continue to do so but it’s worrying. We have a very good squad and they’ve looked devoid of ideas, shape or consistency.
Bowyer’s subs today were just bizarre.I get the feeling he doesn’t know what system to play, which means the players don’t know what to do either.
Consistency is the key and we just haven’t had any of it all season.
I’m just tired of the upheaval and mess of the last few years and don’t fancy more of it by binning off Bowywr and going through another cycle of big name/big reputation managers who want to change the squad AGAIN and don’t work out.
I think it’ll be very interesting to see what Thomas does. His first big decision, really. I hope he doesn’t bring in an unknown Dane, however well intentioned that might be.Who is out there that you’d realistically want instead of Bowyer?3 -
I think there is a good case for Bowyer having time away and coming back more like the manager he was. We have seen what a good manager he was after all. The problem is, this can only work in football when a manager leaves a club.
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I accept that, it’s just good for us to share opinions together knowing we all want the same thingAFKABartram said:
Ok, cheers. I’m in a different place to you and suspect the vast majority are (including Sandgaard), but appreciate you sharing your thoughtsGenevaCharlton said:
Barring something catastrophic ie sliding into relegation trouble I’d like to see how we start next season. As others have said I would write this season off and get some stability on the ins and outs hopefully.AFKABartram said:It is @GenevaCharlton and it’s very easy for fans to ‘make’ these decisions when it’s not them that actually have to make it and have a full insight into the other considerations and impacts attached to it (financial etc).
Interesting though on where roughly your trigger point is for not having faith in taking forward next year, as I’m hovering around mine.4 -
He most definietly was well respected when he was appointed Charlton manager.ShootersHillGuru said:
Well for a start NOT a well respected league one manager. I’d take at this point a well respected Championship manager or aim even higher. It will be the man at the helm that ultimately gets us to where our owner wants. Make the next managerial appointment the biggest and most ambitious in our history would be my advice to Thomas. Pay peanuts. Get monkeys.Valley11 said:
I was thinking of Robinson. A well respected League 1 boss who was heralded when appointed.jakecafc said:
We didn't go through any big name managers.. They were all foreign no marks brought in by Roland the rat.Valley11 said:
Because he’s a decent manager. He’s proved that over the last two seasons. There have been mitigating circumstances this season, although I agree, those excuses are wearing thin.boggzy said:
Given your observations, I genuinely don't understand why you are still backing him.Valley11 said:Backed him and continue to do so but it’s worrying. We have a very good squad and they’ve looked devoid of ideas, shape or consistency.
Bowyer’s subs today were just bizarre.I get the feeling he doesn’t know what system to play, which means the players don’t know what to do either.
Consistency is the key and we just haven’t had any of it all season.
I’m just tired of the upheaval and mess of the last few years and don’t fancy more of it by binning off Bowywr and going through another cycle of big name/big reputation managers who want to change the squad AGAIN and don’t work out.
I think it’ll be very interesting to see what Thomas does. His first big decision, really. I hope he doesn’t bring in an unknown Dane, however well intentioned that might be.Who is out there that you’d realistically want instead of Bowyer?So go on then, who would be your pick as the biggest and most ambitious?0 -
It doesn't happen, but I don't see why it can't. Most clubs seasons are over by April, yet I have never seen a manger have a month off.MuttleyCAFC said:I think there is a good case for Bowyer having time away and coming back more like the manager he was. We have seen what a good manager he was after all. The problem is, this can only work in football when a manager leaves a club.
Look at Pep and Klopp, for example, they are both probably nearer the end than the beginning of their current jobs. A proper break could probably add years to their longevity. I would wager who ever takes over from them doesn't do as well so a year off would be better for everyone wouldn't it?
Not everyone is Sir Alex, which makes his longevity ever more remarkable.2 -
Finding it harder to justify the heart over head stance with each passing game. Hope he can turn it around but not seen anything recently to suggest he will. Massive game on Tuesday and failure to win that will make that stance difficult to defend beyond blind faith, hope and optimism.
Not a fan of chopping and changing managers and like the fact we have a Charlton man and he is massively in credit with me for the past 2.5 years but think I am perhaps romanticising that and the reality of the modern game doesn't work like that.
In my mind Bowyer has to keep winning herein to justify his position....amongst those who have been saying enough for a while now and many of those of us who have been calling for him to be given time and hoping to be vindicated.
Which is a huge amount of pressure and a massive ask and maybe impossible.
Finding my arguments for doing so aren't stacking up after the last 2 games and difficult to keep arguing for it in the cold harsh reality of football in 2021.
Grim situation for all involved.
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.Valley11 said:
He most definietly was well respected when he was appointed Charlton manager.ShootersHillGuru said:
Well for a start NOT a well respected league one manager. I’d take at this point a well respected Championship manager or aim even higher. It will be the man at the helm that ultimately gets us to where our owner wants. Make the next managerial appointment the biggest and most ambitious in our history would be my advice to Thomas. Pay peanuts. Get monkeys.Valley11 said:
I was thinking of Robinson. A well respected League 1 boss who was heralded when appointed.jakecafc said:
We didn't go through any big name managers.. They were all foreign no marks brought in by Roland the rat.Valley11 said:
Because he’s a decent manager. He’s proved that over the last two seasons. There have been mitigating circumstances this season, although I agree, those excuses are wearing thin.boggzy said:
Given your observations, I genuinely don't understand why you are still backing him.Valley11 said:Backed him and continue to do so but it’s worrying. We have a very good squad and they’ve looked devoid of ideas, shape or consistency.
Bowyer’s subs today were just bizarre.I get the feeling he doesn’t know what system to play, which means the players don’t know what to do either.
Consistency is the key and we just haven’t had any of it all season.
I’m just tired of the upheaval and mess of the last few years and don’t fancy more of it by binning off Bowywr and going through another cycle of big name/big reputation managers who want to change the squad AGAIN and don’t work out.
I think it’ll be very interesting to see what Thomas does. His first big decision, really. I hope he doesn’t bring in an unknown Dane, however well intentioned that might be.Who is out there that you’d realistically want instead of Bowyer?So go on then, who would be your pick as the biggest and most ambitious?0 -
Approach Pep and work my way down.Valley11 said:
He most definietly was well respected when he was appointed Charlton manager.ShootersHillGuru said:
Well for a start NOT a well respected league one manager. I’d take at this point a well respected Championship manager or aim even higher. It will be the man at the helm that ultimately gets us to where our owner wants. Make the next managerial appointment the biggest and most ambitious in our history would be my advice to Thomas. Pay peanuts. Get monkeys.Valley11 said:
I was thinking of Robinson. A well respected League 1 boss who was heralded when appointed.jakecafc said:
We didn't go through any big name managers.. They were all foreign no marks brought in by Roland the rat.Valley11 said:
Because he’s a decent manager. He’s proved that over the last two seasons. There have been mitigating circumstances this season, although I agree, those excuses are wearing thin.boggzy said:
Given your observations, I genuinely don't understand why you are still backing him.Valley11 said:Backed him and continue to do so but it’s worrying. We have a very good squad and they’ve looked devoid of ideas, shape or consistency.
Bowyer’s subs today were just bizarre.I get the feeling he doesn’t know what system to play, which means the players don’t know what to do either.
Consistency is the key and we just haven’t had any of it all season.
I’m just tired of the upheaval and mess of the last few years and don’t fancy more of it by binning off Bowywr and going through another cycle of big name/big reputation managers who want to change the squad AGAIN and don’t work out.
I think it’ll be very interesting to see what Thomas does. His first big decision, really. I hope he doesn’t bring in an unknown Dane, however well intentioned that might be.Who is out there that you’d realistically want instead of Bowyer?So go on then, who would be your pick as the biggest and most ambitious?1 -
I’m inclined to stick with Bow for now but that’s wearing thin.4
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I just saw these words. God I hope that day never comes!ShootersHillGuru said:
I’m sure it’s not as easy as I’m portraying but if Bowyer leaves then Thomas has to sell the club to a manager / Head Coach who wouldn’t normally give us a second thought. Certainly salary but also sell a joint vision of what the owner and the new man want to build together. Financial support in the transfer market with a blueprint including targets and expectations. Run the football club like you run your medical business Thomas by getting the very best people you can.Scoham said:
What even is a well respected League 1 manager? If they've been in this division for so long (like Robinson) then is probably because that's their level. If Bowyer is replaced then I hope it's with someone we can see growing with the club and being here in the long term.ShootersHillGuru said:
Well for a start NOT a well respected league one manager. I’d take at this point a well respected Championship manager or aim even higher. It will be the man at the helm that ultimately gets us to where our owner wants. Make the next managerial appointment the biggest and most ambitious in our history would be my advice to Thomas. Pay peanuts. Get monkeys.Valley11 said:
I was thinking of Robinson. A well respected League 1 boss who was heralded when appointed.jakecafc said:
We didn't go through any big name managers.. They were all foreign no marks brought in by Roland the rat.Valley11 said:
Because he’s a decent manager. He’s proved that over the last two seasons. There have been mitigating circumstances this season, although I agree, those excuses are wearing thin.boggzy said:
Given your observations, I genuinely don't understand why you are still backing him.Valley11 said:Backed him and continue to do so but it’s worrying. We have a very good squad and they’ve looked devoid of ideas, shape or consistency.
Bowyer’s subs today were just bizarre.I get the feeling he doesn’t know what system to play, which means the players don’t know what to do either.
Consistency is the key and we just haven’t had any of it all season.
I’m just tired of the upheaval and mess of the last few years and don’t fancy more of it by binning off Bowywr and going through another cycle of big name/big reputation managers who want to change the squad AGAIN and don’t work out.
I think it’ll be very interesting to see what Thomas does. His first big decision, really. I hope he doesn’t bring in an unknown Dane, however well intentioned that might be.Who is out there that you’d realistically want instead of Bowyer?
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How can the players respect Bowyer when he has publicly consistently torn them apart in the press. If not them then their mates! Not good for team morale! Always thought Jackson would be next in line but think he is now tarnished too. Tactics, team selection, square pegs in round holes etc........would get a new man in now to assess the squad & build for next season..... If we could get Paul Cook I’d be happy!3
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Always been disappointed that when a journalist has praised a player he’s always replied, ‘yes, we’ve improved him’. That’s not good for morale either.dajavouslagan said:How can the players respect Bowyer when he has publicly consistently torn them apart in the press. If not them then their mates! Not good for team morale!3 - Sponsored links:
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All seems to have wrong since Ged Roddy got his feet under the table..I am repeating myself but I feel certain that lb is pushing back against things internally and it has reflected on the players.
Bowyer has no sophisticated coaching or management background and hes probably a bit lost now ..should get someone with proven experience now so they can assess who they want to keep and recruit for a successful season next time.Also if we have a better budget not so many loans0 -
Just want to point out LB being blamed for last year's relegation again.blackheathaddick said:GenevaCharlton said:
I know we are coming from different perspectives and we all want the best for Charlton. It’s just a discussion, but having faith in someone who has delivered for the most part under difficult circumstances and is having a bad run of form why isn’t that seen as a possible way out or not something that’s possible to understand / consider?hoof_it_up_to_benty said:I think Bowyer has lost it and I don't understand those who want to persevere with him. I desperately wanted him to succeed but there are no signs of improvement and it's all getting a bit depressing.
We're one of the worst sides in L1 at present based on form since December - far beyond a blip. There haven't been any convincing or fluent performances and our squad should be capable of better than this.
We can't just stick with Bowyer out of sentiment or the fear that the next manager might do even worse.
If you were TS would you trust Bowyer to launch a promotion campaign next season?I think Bowyer lucked out with Gallacher and as soon as he left he had no idea how to arrest the slump and we played some awful, tactically inept, negative football which got us relegated
I feel it's pretty unfair and revisionist, nobody was blaming him last year when we were fielding a midfield of youth players and a striker back from Enfield upfront.
I don't disagree with anything else you've written by the way.1 -
There is a massive difference between giving people an opportunity and improving them as players.JamesSeed said:
Always been disappointed that when a journalist has praised a player he’s always replied, ‘yes, we’ve improved him’. That’s not good for morale either.dajavouslagan said:How can the players respect Bowyer when he has publicly consistently torn them apart in the press. If not them then their mates! Not good for team morale!
Is Gallagher a Premier league footballer through hard work and 10 years at Chelsea or six months under Bowyer?
Also the comments about changing the current Matt Smith into a box to box midfielder. If Arsenal wanted to do that maybe they could have done it themselves?
Its starting to sound like a parody.3 -
I'll agree on that point as I never wanted Slade. He'd never been promoted and it was a wasted appointment. Robinson built some good foundations, but lost it towards the end.GenevaCharlton said:
We’ve been pretty much awful for the last 15 years barring 1 or 2 seasons. I’d rather give the guy responsible for 1 of those good seasons more time because I believe that’s what’s best for the club in the long run. Just think back to Slade or Robinson, wasted seasons wouldn’t you agree? People assume the next manager will be better in the long term, but it could be more wasted seasons. I know it’s not a popular view and we all just want the team to do well.Croydon said:
6 months til we improve? Backing Bowyer over the success of Charlton. I just don't get it.GenevaCharlton said:Wheresmeticket? said:
So how is Bowyer learning from his mistakes, as we all do?GenevaCharlton said:It all comes down to believing in the person. Do you believe in Bowyer or not? I do. This is his first job and we all learn by our mistakes, Most of us actually get better through our experiences. Yet football managers are not given that chance to grow without getting fired.
We are not going to be relegated and this is a guy who has a completely different starting 11 than from Leeds game barely 7 months ago and not by choice. He’s shown too much quality up until the last few months. Il be with him to the end not just out of loyalty but because I believe in his ability.Managing people doesn’t work like that IMHO. You have a team of people who believe in you back in July and were 3 points away from staying up, You then lose all your best employees and you have to basically start again in a completely unstable work environment. We have no idea what is going on in the background and by the comment I assume unless you see a big improvement in results he’s not learning anything. Who knows it could be a month or it could be 6 months by the time we are back on track. We’ve had some shocking managers over the last 5 or 6 years and Bowyer as shown us he’s a good manager. Again completely different personnel from 7 months ago, I don’t understand the rush for him to leave.
What I don't understand is why that is what's best for the club? Stick with someone who's clearly failing, because we had a good season 3 years ago? I want Charlton to succeed, but Bowyer is absolutely holding us back right now.3 -
I can see how a manager can improve a player, and it is a good selling point if you want a loan from a big club. The problem is it can work both ways.0
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Interesting views on here. I might be changing my stance a little. Perhaps it is time for a change. I dunno.1
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Wonder what would have happened if we had forums and social media when Curbishley began his managerial career with us, as well as Lennie Lawrence. ???I doubt that they would have lasted as long the way fans react now....have a bad season...sack him...Let’s not remember what he has done for us over the last two and half seasons, personally I think it’s embaressing.7
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I doubt that very much. Ask any of those who think Bowyer needs to go whether they wanted Curbs or Lawrence gone at any point. Thinking of managers I personally felt had to go, I didn't want Peters or Luzon to go, nor Riga or Parky. I wanted Pardew and Slade to go and reluctantly Robinson.1
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Lost it ? .. Excuse the amateur psychoanalysis ((:>) .. I think that relegation was a serious blow to Bowyer's ego. Also, as has been written countless times, the loss of half his team in the close season including all his star players has pushed him into a mindset of confusion and a too defensive idea of how football should be played. His constant team changes, falling out with his players and his too often seeming bafflement and an almost terrified demeanour when being interviewed indicates that he has REALLY lost it.
He must be replaced, and I write this with a sad heart. Bowyer is probably a well meaning, talented and ambitious man, but he is not suited to managing a football club of Charlton's stature when the going is very tough and important decisions need to be made.1 -
The comparison between 2010/11 and now seems appropriate,
Parky and dross out, Powell, Varney and Co implement a plan for the closed season.
“Getting to know the network” was very informative about exactly how they achieved the squad for 2011/12. It weren’t all done in the closed season, the months leading to it were vital & well used.Their starting point, Solly and Jackson retained the rest gone!
My point being whoever is the manager needs to start that process now!
Luv to see Bow and Gallen do it but believe Powell and Gallen would be a good alternative.
The club are in a much better place now than 2010/11, great owner, financial stability, better player base (only just).Start the plan now, write off the season and look forwards.
keep the faith COYRs1
This discussion has been closed.
