The comparison between 2010/11 and now seems appropriate,
Parky and dross out, Powell, Varney and Co implement a plan for the closed season.
“Getting to know the network” was very informative about exactly how they achieved the squad for 2011/12. It weren’t all done in the closed season, the months leading to it were vital & well used.
Their starting point, Solly and Jackson retained the rest gone!
My point being whoever is the manager needs to start that process now!
Luv to see Bow and Gallen do it but believe Powell and Gallen would be a good alternative.
The club are in a much better place now than 2010/11, great owner, financial stability, better player base (only just).
Start the plan now, write off the season and look forwards.
keep the faith COYRs
I think there is a difference. Powell came to the conclusion that too many players were not up to it. I doubt any would disagree with his assessment. We have a better squad now than then.
And if you believe that, don't write off this season with so many points to play for in a poor league. Just change the tune.
Someone posting on a Charlton fb site of a falling out between Roddy and Bowyer. Thinks Bowyers tactics and training methods are archaic. Doesn’t see him as the man to turn TS dream into reality!
Wants to pull the trigger now but TS holding off atm!
I saw enough from Bowyer in the two years previous to know there's a good manager in there. That for me is enough to give him a full pre season and summer window with a owner that will back him. If we aren't in contention by mid October with a squad he has built then that's the time to go. Everyone is desperate to get out of this league which I get but give him a chance without he's hands tied behind his back for once. If he stays until the summer I can see about 15 players leaving
Whoever is in charge next season, I think it will be Bowyer still I hope they won’t make these two mistakes in the summer.
1) Stop getting the maximum amount of loan players in. Get the bare minimum not maximum.
2) Sign younger demographic of players. Need to reduce the average of the squad and not increase it.
Yes I agree. There's nothing wrong with a loan signing but if you've got 5 in a starting 11 that's half the team that are temporary. I think it would also be wise to have loan slots free for later in the season. 3 players I'd sign first thing in the summer would be Baxter on loan from Chelsea he's Accrington keeper. Balogun on loan from Arsenal who's a young forward that looks rapid and can score goals and Also Bishop from Accrington a young forward who has come up from non league and looks hungry. I'd be inclined to try and sign Stockley and if we could I'd probably let Aneke go. As much as I like Pratley it's probably time to say bye and start building a midfield around JFC and Morgan. 2 decent CBs are needed urgently too
You would let our top scorer go and replace him with a forward who could be playing championship football next season?
Like I said I'd try and sign Stockley and if that was do-able I'd probably let Aneke go. His fitness is a problem which is well documented and I personally think you need a squad of players who you can call upon for any given time. Don't get me wrong he's a good player but even when he is "fit" we can only have him for 2/3rds of the game
Something that we have always lacked under bowyer is an identity, we've played about 10 formations and played them all differently in terms of our style of play. To be successful long term you need to have a set way of playing and sign players to fit that. Have a very strong plan A. Bowyer is a novice in a world with an increasing emphasis on strategy.
I saw enough from Bowyer in the two years previous to know there's a good manager in there. That for me is enough to give him a full pre season and summer window with a owner that will back him. If we aren't in contention by mid October with a squad he has built then that's the time to go. Everyone is desperate to get out of this league which I get but give him a chance without he's hands tied behind his back for once. If he stays until the summer I can see about 15 players leaving
Whoever is in charge next season, I think it will be Bowyer still I hope they won’t make these two mistakes in the summer.
1) Stop getting the maximum amount of loan players in. Get the bare minimum not maximum.
2) Sign younger demographic of players. Need to reduce the average of the squad and not increase it.
Yes I agree. There's nothing wrong with a loan signing but if you've got 5 in a starting 11 that's half the team that are temporary. I think it would also be wise to have loan slots free for later in the season. 3 players I'd sign first thing in the summer would be Baxter on loan from Chelsea he's Accrington keeper. Balogun on loan from Arsenal who's a young forward that looks rapid and can score goals and Also Bishop from Accrington a young forward who has come up from non league and looks hungry. I'd be inclined to try and sign Stockley and if we could I'd probably let Aneke go. As much as I like Pratley it's probably time to say bye and start building a midfield around JFC and Morgan. 2 decent CBs are needed urgently too
You would let our top scorer go and replace him with a forward who could be playing championship football next season?
Like I said I'd try and sign Stockley and if that was do-able I'd probably let Aneke go. His fitness is a problem which is well documented and I personally think you need a squad of players who you can call upon for any given time. Don't get me wrong he's a good player but even when he is "fit" we can only have him for 2/3rds of the game
Can’t argue with what you are saying regarding fitness. I do wonder if a different manager and different training methods would make a difference.
Bowyer is cautious with him but I’m not sure if that’s bowyers choice or advice from the medical team.
Someone posting on a Charlton fb site of a falling out between Roddy and Bowyer. Thinks Bowyers tactics and training methods are archaic. Doesn’t see him as the man to turn TS dream into reality!
Wants to pull the trigger now but TS holding off atm!
That view (tactics) has been reported from a senior player too from a reliable source that many decided to ignore.
The comparison between 2010/11 and now seems appropriate,
Parky and dross out, Powell, Varney and Co implement a plan for the closed season.
“Getting to know the network” was very informative about exactly how they achieved the squad for 2011/12. It weren’t all done in the closed season, the months leading to it were vital & well used.
Their starting point, Solly and Jackson retained the rest gone!
My point being whoever is the manager needs to start that process now!
Luv to see Bow and Gallen do it but believe Powell and Gallen would be a good alternative.
The club are in a much better place now than 2010/11, great owner, financial stability, better player base (only just).
Start the plan now, write off the season and look forwards.
keep the faith COYRs
I think there is a difference. Powell came to the conclusion that too many players were not up to it. I doubt any would disagree with his assessment. We have a better squad now than then.
And if you believe that, don't write off this season with so many points to play for in a poor league. Just change the tune.
Agreed dear Sir, as suggested I’d not object to seeing a 2nd coming of Mr Powell, I believe he’s got unfinished business with us.
Whilst musing on this post, I ran thru the current 1st teamers (excluding loans) and end up with a short keep list:
1) Amos 2) Deja 3) JFC 4) Chucks 5) Shinnie 6) Morgan 7) DJ 8) Iniss
A bit better than just Solly and Jacko😊
Subjective and open to arguments but best of a bad bunch in my view, it’s something to biuld with.
Whatever the reasons for our piss poor performance over the past few months, ain’t no one on the planet going to put it right this season I’m really saddened to say.
Someone posting on a Charlton fb site of a falling out between Roddy and Bowyer. Thinks Bowyers tactics and training methods are archaic. Doesn’t see him as the man to turn TS dream into reality!
Wants to pull the trigger now but TS holding off atm!
That view (tactics) has been reported from a senior player too from a reliable source that many decided to ignore.
J Block heard it first hand from a player and I heard it third hand from a friend of a friend (nowt to do with J block ) saying the players weren’t happy with training and tactics
J Block heard it first hand from a player and I heard it third hand from a friend of a friend (nowt to do with J block ) saying the players weren’t happy with training and tactics
The player allegedly said the team never discuss tactics, so not sure how the team could also be unhappy with the tactics
I think that particular accusation has been dispelled in various player interviews since anyway
I will say that they didn't come out second half looking like they believed in what they were doing
“I’ve been here for less than a couple of weeks but can see he’s really good at managing the team and knows what he wants to do.
“I can see how keen he is on the detail and how he wants to play, it’s not kick-and-rush."
That was from Ronnie. There have been others but I'm not going to look for them. Remember the player apparently said "We never discuss or practice tactics."
I have also heard from a friend who worked with Ged Roddy at Bath Uni that he has said to Saandgard that he can’t work with Bowyer - various reason listed including things like his language to the players, demeanour, respect to players on the training ground and processes (whatever that means). Only happy to share now as it seems to have also come out elsewhere.
J Block heard it first hand from a player and I heard it third hand from a friend of a friend (nowt to do with J block ) saying the players weren’t happy with training and tactics
The player allegedly said the team never discuss tactics, so not sure how the team could also be unhappy with the tactics
I think that particular accusation has been dispelled in various player interviews since anyway
I will say that they didn't come out second half looking like they believed in what they were doing
“Our tactics and training aren’t working “ said no player ever publicly
J Block heard it first hand from a player and I heard it third hand from a friend of a friend (nowt to do with J block ) saying the players weren’t happy with training and tactics
The player allegedly said the team never discuss tactics, so not sure how the team could also be unhappy with the tactics
I think that particular accusation has been dispelled in various player interviews since anyway
I will say that they didn't come out second half looking like they believed in what they were doing
“Our tactics and training aren’t working “ said no player ever publicly
You've lost me there, not sure how it's a reply to what I wrote, but maybe that's my fault.
Seems this thread is tumbling down conspiracy theory avenue
Ok, I accept a new player with a positive mindset said that, but do you accept a senior pro said what has been reported? Or is it just select what you want to hear.
Things seemed to change when we had that horrendous injury crisis in October- Dec last season. We had about 15 players out injured. Up to that point I would watch the team and admire the work commitment of the team. Often LB would comment after a game how the players ' left everything on the pitch '. You don't hear that anymore. Josh Cullen set a great example. I thought at the time , due to the injury crisis , that Gallagher was over played and needed a rest. Was he recalled because Chelsea were not happy ? That decision was a big factor in us being relegated. Something has been lost , this group of players are a shadow of the team of two years ago. Those saying cut out the loan players , well we would not have been promoted two years ago without Cullen and Beilik. We need quality loan players with the right attitude , Millar is a good quality loan. It's Thomas's decision if he trusts LB with his money , we have underachieved so far this season. I think there are very few that think this is not the case. Does that mean you sack the manager ? Players were signed in short time , Curbs always did his homework on new signings. Did they have the right attitude , would they fit in with the group ? That is a lesson LB would have learned this season. I trust Thomas to do the right thing for the future of the club and think others should let him get on with the job instead of constantly pushing their agenda on here
J Block heard it first hand from a player and I heard it third hand from a friend of a friend (nowt to do with J block ) saying the players weren’t happy with training and tactics
The player allegedly said the team never discuss tactics, so not sure how the team could also be unhappy with the tactics
I think that particular accusation has been dispelled in various player interviews since anyway
No current player will ever come out and publicly say the managers tactics and training aren’t working. these conversations didn’t take place with journalists .
Whatever anybody says from whatever position, I think it is a decent bet that Bowyer is fighting for his job. The question for me is whether he will get off the back foot and onto the front foot and have a real go at it - like he did when he took over from Robinson (where he wasn't a shoe in for the manager's job) or whether it will be a case of more of the same negativity and depression.
Ok, I accept a new player with a positive mindset said that, but do you accept a senior pro said what has been reported? Or is it just select what you want to hear.
There's really no good way for me to answer that so I'm going to pass.
I have also heard from a friend who worked with Ged Roddy at Bath Uni that he has said to Saandgard that he can’t work with Bowyer - various reason listed including things like his language to the players, demeanour, respect to players on the training ground and processes (whatever that means). Only happy to share now as it seems to have also come out elsewhere.
Would fit with why Roddy has been very quiet.
These are the kind of things that I think baring a miracle end of season run, why Bowyer won’t be here next season. I would not be surprised had that already been determined by Sandgaard.
“I’ve been here for less than a couple of weeks but can see he’s really good at managing the team and knows what he wants to do.
“I can see how keen he is on the detail and how he wants to play, it’s not kick-and-rush."
That was from Ronnie. There have been others but I'm not going to look for them. Remember the player apparently said "We never discuss or practice tactics."
Bonne said as soon as he heard of QPR his head was turned, but it was widely accepted on here that that was just a sound bite. I'd assume Ronnie js the same
Bowyer was the sort of player that if the manager said your playing right back today, he would go and do it. Even if he had never played there before. His basic skill set and knowledge of the game we see him able to "do a job". But he was a top top player, no one in our current squad is close in terms of that. Not even Pratley, Watson Gunter etc even when they were 10 years younger.
Millar, in 6 weeks, has played in 5 different positions for us! That's not normal.
Roy Keane had similar problems when he was a manager.
A good manager at this level is able to negate the weakness in his players.
Is the fact the best players under Bowyer are all now playing at a higher level cause or effect?
I don't see any improvement in players with a lower level of potential like JFC, Morgan, Oshilaja.
The problem is for me and why I have changed my mind is the air around the team. I can accept being turned over by genuinely better footballing teams, I am not particularly in a rush to see us get out of league 1 but I am fed up of watching a team that I can't get excited to watch and making my mood consistently worse. Even when we win it doesn't feel enjoyable imo (rare atm).
I think Lee has been unlucky. Players who should be performing aren't, injuries etc but now the excuses are drying up and we still look awful.
I believe Bowyer and Charlton are in a toxic relationship atm and I am extremely familiar with this territory. When I left my ex after 8 years the last 3 were genuinely toxic, always held on to the good years etc and loyalty but in the end once resentment kicks in and bitterness it's very hard to ignore. I think Lee comes across depressed, angry, negative, droney, unenthusiastic in a nutshell I think atm he is a toxic person. He is not the same energy we first inherited and for me that is the reason he needs to go.
I also believe the time is now. We would have a slim chance of promotion, failing we don't we have enough points to not worry about relegation and for a new team to experiment with the players we have and for the new team to decide who is good enough etc.
Tldr;
- Bowyer has become toxic
- 90% of our squad are not good enough and need re-evaluating
- Stop hanging on to the good times, it's not a reason to accept mediocrity
Ok, I accept a new player with a positive mindset said that, but do you accept a senior pro said what has been reported? Or is it just select what you want to hear.
There's really no good way for me to answer that so I'm going to pass.
Good, because going by some things I know, I'd bet my life on what J Block said being true. The problem is, the first place to look to find the truth is not where people are saying what you want to hear.
“I’ve been here for less than a couple of weeks but can see he’s really good at managing the team and knows what he wants to do.
“I can see how keen he is on the detail and how he wants to play, it’s not kick-and-rush."
That was from Ronnie. There have been others but I'm not going to look for them. Remember the player apparently said "We never discuss or practice tactics."
Comments
And if you believe that, don't write off this season with so many points to play for in a poor league. Just change the tune.
Whilst musing on this post, I ran thru the current 1st teamers (excluding loans) and end up with a short keep list:
1) Amos
2) Deja
3) JFC
4) Chucks
5) Shinnie
6) Morgan
7) DJ
8) Iniss
A bit better than just Solly and Jacko😊
Subjective and open to arguments but best of a bad bunch in my view, it’s something to biuld with.
Whatever the reasons for our piss poor performance over the past few months, ain’t no one on the planet going to put it right this season I’m really saddened to say.
saying the players weren’t happy with training and tactics
I think that particular accusation has been dispelled in various player interviews since anyway
I think the criticism was around players being asked to adopt tactics that are undercooked in training btw.
“I’ve been here for less than a couple of weeks but can see he’s really good at managing the team and knows what he wants to do.
“I can see how keen he is on the detail and how he wants to play, it’s not kick-and-rush."
That was from Ronnie. There have been others but I'm not going to look for them. Remember the player apparently said "We never discuss or practice tactics."
Would fit with why Roddy has been very quiet.
Seems this thread is tumbling down conspiracy theory avenue
Something has been lost , this group of players are a shadow of the team of two years ago. Those saying cut out the loan players , well we would not have been promoted two years ago without Cullen and Beilik. We need quality loan players with the right attitude , Millar is a good quality loan.
It's Thomas's decision if he trusts LB with his money , we have underachieved so far this season. I think there are very few that think this is not the case. Does that mean you sack the manager ? Players were signed in short time , Curbs always did his homework on new signings. Did they have the right attitude , would they fit in with the group ? That is a lesson LB would have learned this season.
I trust Thomas to do the right thing for the future of the club and think others should let him get on with the job instead of constantly pushing their agenda on here
these conversations didn’t take place with journalists .
time will tell
Bowyer was the sort of player that if the manager said your playing right back today, he would go and do it. Even if he had never played there before. His basic skill set and knowledge of the game we see him able to "do a job". But he was a top top player, no one in our current squad is close in terms of that. Not even Pratley, Watson Gunter etc even when they were 10 years younger.
Millar, in 6 weeks, has played in 5 different positions for us! That's not normal.
Roy Keane had similar problems when he was a manager.
A good manager at this level is able to negate the weakness in his players.
Is the fact the best players under Bowyer are all now playing at a higher level cause or effect?
I don't see any improvement in players with a lower level of potential like JFC, Morgan, Oshilaja.
I think Lee has been unlucky. Players who should be performing aren't, injuries etc but now the excuses are drying up and we still look awful.
I believe Bowyer and Charlton are in a toxic relationship atm and I am extremely familiar with this territory. When I left my ex after 8 years the last 3 were genuinely toxic, always held on to the good years etc and loyalty but in the end once resentment kicks in and bitterness it's very hard to ignore. I think Lee comes across depressed, angry, negative, droney, unenthusiastic in a nutshell I think atm he is a toxic person. He is not the same energy we first inherited and for me that is the reason he needs to go.
I also believe the time is now. We would have a slim chance of promotion, failing we don't we have enough points to not worry about relegation and for a new team to experiment with the players we have and for the new team to decide who is good enough etc.
Tldr;
- Bowyer has become toxic
"