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Vaccine
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No of course not but for god sake look at this with some perspective. Have you read the link to The Lancet above ?Nadou said:So are you suggesting the information or debate should be suppressed?2 -
I'd much rather take my chances with the vaccine than getting Covid.10
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Me too, or dying from the extremely rare possibility of getting a rare brain thrombus.ME14addick said:I'd much rather take my chances with the vaccine than getting Covid.3 -
Stats show that about 1 in 2.5m people could die from blood clotting after having the AZ vacinne. If 2.5m people over 65 caught covid then the rate of death would be in the region of 50000. If 2.5m people under 45 caught covid then the death rate would be in the region of 2500. A risk worth taking.5
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As I have stated above on a number of occasions, me too. I don't understand your "for god's sake look at this with some perspective". How am I not looking at it with perspective?ShootersHillGuru said:
Me too, or dying from the extremely rare possibility of getting a rare brain thrombus.ME14addick said:I'd much rather take my chances with the vaccine than getting Covid.2 -
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Yes, I did read The Lancet report and was struck by "We are, however, aware that although a substantial fraction of the thromboembolisms seem to be venous, reports are emerging of rare types of multiple thrombosis, bleeding, and thrombocytopenia, apparently similar to disseminated intravascular coagulation, occurring in otherwise healthy individuals shortly after receiving the Oxford–AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine.1
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Hartleypete said:
Very grown up.Leroy Ambrose said:Hartleypete said:
I can understand your attitude.ShootersHillGuru said:
How is anyone being “heartless” ? The incidence of thromboembolic events is the same in the vaccinated and non vaccinated population. That’s a fact. I’m really not sure what you don’t understand.Hartleypete said:
Thanks for telling me how I should or shouldn’t feel, Not saying vaccine shouldn’t be administered just saying some people are heartless in this situation.Leroy Ambrose said:
Nope. That's the same thinking that got people worked up when that imbecile Wakefield - aided and abetted ably by the media - deliberately falsified results that linked autism to vaccines (indelibly, in the case of some people), and set scientific progress against diseases like measles back by decades.Hartleypete said:
Unless you or a loved one are one of those involved in the statistics.ShootersHillGuru said:
But as it’s been said, there is no importance or significance in that statistic. None.Nadou said:
That is why I put the number of doses. However, it is impossible to say yet that these cases were not a direct result of the vaccine, no matter how much you or I might wish otherwise.ShootersHillGuru said:
Been here before. Out of that number of vaccinations 30 would represent normally expected prevalence of thromboembolic events.Nadou said:30 blood clot cases attributed to AZ vaccine in the UK. Out of 18 million doses given. No reports yet of clots associated with the Pfizer.
Statistics are statistics. They don't care about your feelings - and you shouldn't care about your feelings when looking at them, either. The term 'not statistically significant' indicates precisely that there is nothing worry about, as the number of incidences is exactly the same as it would be if there were no vaccine.
Says the man who kept lolling his very well constructed posts that explained exactly what statistical significance meant. What did you think was going to happen? Would he keep banging his head against a wall trying to explain reality to someone with seemingly no interest in learning or would he finally give up and post a graphic representation of how your childish lolling made him feel?
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Anything like this must be investigated and see if any causal link can be teased out the data. It appears more in young or middle aged women according to the report above. Worth seeing if they have anything else in common (contraceptive perhaps?). Different drugs can can different effects on different patient groups, maybe suggest a different vaccine for those groups, if a causal effect is shown. At the moment it just seems like statistical noise.6
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56566892Not seen this mentioned elsewhere so thought I would share as may be relevant to some people on here.1
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Did you read that section @s@ShootersHillGuru? And if so, what did you make of it? The presence of unusual events seems to marry up with the section of BBC News that I posted above. Straightforward DVTs and Pulmonary Embolisms found in some post- Vaccine recipients might well be statistically insignificant and fit the pattern of normal expectation but rare types might be more significant, no? Even if the risk is still well worth getting vaccinated versus getting Covid.Nadou said:Yes, I did read The Lancet report and was struck by "We are, however, aware that although a substantial fraction of the thromboembolisms seem to be venous, reports are emerging of rare types of multiple thrombosis, bleeding, and thrombocytopenia, apparently similar to disseminated intravascular coagulation, occurring in otherwise healthy individuals shortly after receiving the Oxford–AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine.1 -
2nd Pfizer jab completed at Dartford football club, great service in and complete in 20 mins including 15 minute wait, you really got to admire the organisation.11
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I think it’s obvious to say that there are going to be reported effects that require research and for any reported side effect that is the due process whether it’s statistically rare cranial thromboembolic events or muscle aches. That’s how the process for any medication works. I think where we are at crossed purposes is that even if it’s proven that there is a spike in an already very rare type of thrombus caused by a vaccine then unless the numbers are truly cause for concern then it’s right and proper that a vaccine that will save thousands of lives and prevent serious illness and prevent transmission in the middle of a pandemic must continue to be used and although it’s been said before, even some reported deaths as a consequence of vaccination will be far outweighed by the hundred of thousands of lives saved. That’s always the trade off in medicine. A cost / benefit analysis.Nadou said:
Did you read that section @s@ShootersHillGuru? And if so, what did you make of it? The presence of unusual events seems to marry up with the section of BBC News that I posted above. Straightforward DVTs and Pulmonary Embolisms found in some post- Vaccine recipients might well be statistically insignificant and fit the pattern of normal expectation but rare types might be more significant, no? Even if the risk is still well worth getting vaccinated versus getting Covid.Nadou said:Yes, I did read The Lancet report and was struck by "We are, however, aware that although a substantial fraction of the thromboembolisms seem to be venous, reports are emerging of rare types of multiple thrombosis, bleeding, and thrombocytopenia, apparently similar to disseminated intravascular coagulation, occurring in otherwise healthy individuals shortly after receiving the Oxford–AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine.0 -
Thanks for posting that.cafcforever said:https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56566892Not seen this mentioned elsewhere so thought I would share as may be relevant to some people on here.
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More than 5m people have had second dose
More than five million people have received both doses of a Covid-19 vaccine in the UK, the latest figures show.
There were 107,402 first doses given on Good Friday, taking the total number of people who have received one jab to 31,425,682.
Nearly 250,000 second jabs were given, taking the number of people who have received both vaccinations to 5,205,505.
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I don't think we are at cross-purposes at all. I have never dismissed the possibility of side effects with any medicine, nor have I ever denied the rarity of the events in the case of the AZ vaccine nor the fact that any current risks are far outweighed by the benefits. I am merely interested in any developments in the pandemic and our responses to it with vaccines, which I think are a magnificent achievement. I just think you have misinterpreted my interest and curiosity and questioning as a sign of someone who is a vaccine sceptic and incapable of understanding statistics and you have consequently been rather dismissive.ShootersHillGuru said:
I think it’s obvious to say that there are going to be reported effects that require research and for any reported side effect that is the due process whether it’s statistically rare cranial thromboembolic events or muscle aches. That’s how the process for any medication works. I think where we are at crossed purposes is that even if it’s proven that there is a spike in an already very rare type of thrombus caused by a vaccine then unless the numbers are truly cause for concern then it’s right and proper that a vaccine that will save thousands of lives and prevent serious illness and prevent transmission in the middle of a pandemic must continue to be used and although it’s been said before, even some reported deaths as a consequence of vaccination will be far outweighed by the hundred of thousands of lives saved. That’s always the trade off in medicine. A cost / benefit analysis.Nadou said:
Did you read that section @s@ShootersHillGuru? And if so, what did you make of it? The presence of unusual events seems to marry up with the section of BBC News that I posted above. Straightforward DVTs and Pulmonary Embolisms found in some post- Vaccine recipients might well be statistically insignificant and fit the pattern of normal expectation but rare types might be more significant, no? Even if the risk is still well worth getting vaccinated versus getting Covid.Nadou said:Yes, I did read The Lancet report and was struck by "We are, however, aware that although a substantial fraction of the thromboembolisms seem to be venous, reports are emerging of rare types of multiple thrombosis, bleeding, and thrombocytopenia, apparently similar to disseminated intravascular coagulation, occurring in otherwise healthy individuals shortly after receiving the Oxford–AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine.2 -
I'd give up if I were you SHG, there's only so many ways and times that you can explain.4
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He hasn't tried a house analogy has he?Covered End said:I'd give up if I were you SHG, there's only so many ways and times that you can explain.8 -
Can you explain what I have not understood?Covered End said:I'd give up if I were you SHG, there's only so many ways and times that you can explain.1 - Sponsored links:
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Wife and myself had the Oxford AZ first dose in Eltham this afternoon. All very well organised. Feeling OK so far.
Just a small prick according to the wife.
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And the vaccine?Penfolds Perm said:Wife and myself had the Oxford AZ first dose in Eltham this afternoon. All very well organised. Feeling OK so far.
Just a small prick according to the wife.5 -
No.Nadou said:
Can you explain what I have not understood?Covered End said:I'd give up if I were you SHG, there's only so many ways and times that you can explain.2 -
I'm basically waiting for the vaccine so I can make the 'little prick' joke. I'm gutted seeing 20 other people on here make it so far and not to have had the chance yet myself....9
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Leroy Ambrose said:I'm basically waiting for the vaccine so I can make the 'little prick' joke. I'm gutted seeing 20 other people on here make it so far and not to have had the chance yet myself....
You could say you had a big prick.9 -
Help me dear LordHartleypete said:
Very grown up.Leroy Ambrose said:Hartleypete said:
I can understand your attitude.ShootersHillGuru said:
How is anyone being “heartless” ? The incidence of thromboembolic events is the same in the vaccinated and non vaccinated population. That’s a fact. I’m really not sure what you don’t understand.Hartleypete said:
Thanks for telling me how I should or shouldn’t feel, Not saying vaccine shouldn’t be administered just saying some people are heartless in this situation.Leroy Ambrose said:
Nope. That's the same thinking that got people worked up when that imbecile Wakefield - aided and abetted ably by the media - deliberately falsified results that linked autism to vaccines (indelibly, in the case of some people), and set scientific progress against diseases like measles back by decades.Hartleypete said:
Unless you or a loved one are one of those involved in the statistics.ShootersHillGuru said:
But as it’s been said, there is no importance or significance in that statistic. None.Nadou said:
That is why I put the number of doses. However, it is impossible to say yet that these cases were not a direct result of the vaccine, no matter how much you or I might wish otherwise.ShootersHillGuru said:
Been here before. Out of that number of vaccinations 30 would represent normally expected prevalence of thromboembolic events.Nadou said:30 blood clot cases attributed to AZ vaccine in the UK. Out of 18 million doses given. No reports yet of clots associated with the Pfizer.
Statistics are statistics. They don't care about your feelings - and you shouldn't care about your feelings when looking at them, either. The term 'not statistically significant' indicates precisely that there is nothing worry about, as the number of incidences is exactly the same as it would be if there were no vaccine.
To keep if I can
A piece of the heart
Of the boy in the man.0 -
But that would be a lie. A dirty great lie.Johnnysummers5 said:Leroy Ambrose said:I'm basically waiting for the vaccine so I can make the 'little prick' joke. I'm gutted seeing 20 other people on here make it so far and not to have had the chance yet myself....
You could say you had a big prick.4 -
20.....more like 120!Leroy Ambrose said:I'm basically waiting for the vaccine so I can make the 'little prick' joke. I'm gutted seeing 20 other people on here make it so far and not to have had the chance yet myself....0 -
I see. So it was just an arrogant, condescending barb rather than a real point.Covered End said:
No.Nadou said:
Can you explain what I have not understood?Covered End said:I'd give up if I were you SHG, there's only so many ways and times that you can explain.2 -
How do you expect me to explain what you have not understood?Nadou said:
I see. So it was just an arrogant, condescending barb rather than a real point.Covered End said:
No.Nadou said:
Can you explain what I have not understood?Covered End said:I'd give up if I were you SHG, there's only so many ways and times that you can explain.
You have been asking the same question/similar question repeatedly for the last couple of days.
You have had the answers that all vaccines may have side effects and it is possible that there is a side effect of blood clots.
However, the people responding to your repeated questions have offered their opinion, that the odd blood clot case is preferable to thousands, perhaps tens of thousands, perhaps hundreds of thousands of people getting Covid.
So statistically the blood clot cases are not significant.
You appear to accept this and then repeat the question again.
So no I'm terribly sorry but I don't see how I can explain what you have not understood, because I can't understand what you haven't understood and why you continue to ask the same people the same questions for days on end.
I now expect you to ask the same question again.8
