Transfermarkt is not great with actual player values but is fairly good at relative values. They rank us as #6 in L1 in player values. And our net player values are a far, far, far cry from Ipswich, who appear to be "going for it." And millions behind other top 4 clubs. Also we have one of the smallest teams in the division, which can hardly be blamed on Lee. It seems by this data that we are only mildly under-performing our payroll. Club value points to 6th and we are 8th. Maybe the real problem is this is a crap league with crap players and crap money. Not sure there is some savior manager that we could get who can change that dynamic.
MK Dons must want their managers head! Massively underperforming.
Wait we were just linked with wanting Russel Martin.
How does this work?
*no intention of taking the piss out of original poster
I would love to know whether Thomas Sandgard reads Charlton Life.
I have no idea, but If he does then he will know that there is an awful lot of fans wanting Bowyer replaced.
As a successful businessman I am sure that he has his finger on the pulse, and will be acutely aware of the groundswell of anger and frustration from the fans.
I would love to know whether Thomas Sandgard reads Charlton Life.
I have no idea, but If he does then he will know that there is an awful lot of fans wanting Bowyer replaced.
As a successful businessman I am sure that he has his finger on the pulse, and will be acutely aware of the groundswell of anger and frustration from the fans.
I think it would be odds on mate. Maybe not himself ( although it wouldnt surprise me if he did ) but odds on he has someone reading it and reporting back. Fans are his customers at the end of the day and any sensible business wants to know what its customers think
I would love to know whether Thomas Sandgard reads Charlton Life.
I have no idea, but If he does then he will know that there is an awful lot of fans wanting Bowyer replaced.
As a successful businessman I am sure that he has his finger on the pulse, and will be acutely aware of the groundswell of anger and frustration from the fans.
I think it would be odds on mate. Maybe not himself ( although it wouldnt surprise me if he did ) but odds on he has someone reading it and reporting back. Fans are his customers at the end of the day and any sensible business wants to know what its customers think
I hope that you are right, because surely if Thomas really knows the depth of feeling towards Bowyer, then Bowyer is a dead man walking.
I would love to know whether Thomas Sandgard reads Charlton Life.
I have no idea, but If he does then he will know that there is an awful lot of fans wanting Bowyer replaced.
As a successful businessman I am sure that he has his finger on the pulse, and will be acutely aware of the groundswell of anger and frustration from the fans.
I think it would be odds on mate. Maybe not himself ( although it wouldnt surprise me if he did ) but odds on he has someone reading it and reporting back. Fans are his customers at the end of the day and any sensible business wants to know what its customers think
I hope that you are right, because surely if Thomas really knows the depth of feeling towards Bowyer, then Bowyer is a dead man walking.
Is there really a massive depth of feeling. There is a lot of noise but not huge numbers
I would love to know whether Thomas Sandgard reads Charlton Life.
I have no idea, but If he does then he will know that there is an awful lot of fans wanting Bowyer replaced.
As a successful businessman I am sure that he has his finger on the pulse, and will be acutely aware of the groundswell of anger and frustration from the fans.
I think it would be odds on mate. Maybe not himself ( although it wouldnt surprise me if he did ) but odds on he has someone reading it and reporting back. Fans are his customers at the end of the day and any sensible business wants to know what its customers think
I hope that you are right, because surely if Thomas really knows the depth of feeling towards Bowyer, then Bowyer is a dead man walking.
Is there really a massive depth of feeling. There is a lot of noise but not huge numbers
Based on what I read on Charlton Life the Bowyer out brigade must be approaching 60/65 % of the posters on here.
If I am correct, and that is a reflection of our fans feelings, that is a huge number.
I would love to know whether Thomas Sandgard reads Charlton Life.
I have no idea, but If he does then he will know that there is an awful lot of fans wanting Bowyer replaced.
As a successful businessman I am sure that he has his finger on the pulse, and will be acutely aware of the groundswell of anger and frustration from the fans.
I think it would be odds on mate. Maybe not himself ( although it wouldnt surprise me if he did ) but odds on he has someone reading it and reporting back. Fans are his customers at the end of the day and any sensible business wants to know what its customers think
I hope that you are right, because surely if Thomas really knows the depth of feeling towards Bowyer, then Bowyer is a dead man walking.
Is there really a massive depth of feeling. There is a lot of noise but not huge numbers
Based on what I read on Charlton Life the Bowyer out brigade must be approaching 60/65 % of the posters on here.
If I am correct, and that is a reflection of our fans feelings, that is a huge number.
How many fans are on CharltonLife though?
2,000 - 5,000? - If thats the case thats no where near normal attendance levels, of course there will be those on twitter and not even on social media who no doubt have the same feelings so impossible to actually judge.
Utterly pointless. If the owner never changed it after we hadn’t won for 4 games, he’s not going to change it when we are 4 games unbeaten at this stage of the season.
Do wonder about us as a fanbase at times, it’s definitely evolved.
Agree. Its "evolved" into an ever increasing bunch of whining, self-entitled, over-opiniated morons who think they are experts on just about everything, including man management, formations and tactics. All having never watched a training session in their lives, much less got any relevant qualifications.
I'm just fucking glad I dont have to sit in a stadium with them any more.
Football fans never discussed tactics, formations, or managers before 2020, you're right. Imagine being annoyed over football fans, discussing football, on a football forum.
I would love to know whether Thomas Sandgard reads Charlton Life.
I have no idea, but If he does then he will know that there is an awful lot of fans wanting Bowyer replaced.
As a successful businessman I am sure that he has his finger on the pulse, and will be acutely aware of the groundswell of anger and frustration from the fans.
I think it would be odds on mate. Maybe not himself ( although it wouldnt surprise me if he did ) but odds on he has someone reading it and reporting back. Fans are his customers at the end of the day and any sensible business wants to know what its customers think
I hope that you are right, because surely if Thomas really knows the depth of feeling towards Bowyer, then Bowyer is a dead man walking.
Is there really a massive depth of feeling. There is a lot of noise but not huge numbers
Based on what I read on Charlton Life the Bowyer out brigade must be approaching 60/65 % of the posters on here.
If I am correct, and that is a reflection of our fans feelings, that is a huge number.
How many fans are on CharltonLife though?
2,000 - 5,000? - If thats the case thats no where near normal attendance levels, of course there will be those on twitter and not even on social media who no doubt have the same feelings so impossible to actually judge.
I worked it out, for some other reason a couple of years ago. I think the conclusion I came to was there was actually only 50 odd people that had expressed an opinion on the issue. Despite the fact it was a multi page thread.
The view was about 90% in favour of what ever it was (I can't remember what the actual subject was) and I got pelters for pointing out even on the biggest forum it was still only about 0.1% of fans.
If anyone uses Charlton Life, Facebook, Twitter or Trust Surveys on the basis they are a gospel reflection of "all fans" opinions and base any significant business decisions on it, as the only source, their business won't do well for very long.
If anyone post on here, or else where, for any other reason than to express an opinion they need to give their head a wobble.
Let Bowyer have till Christmas. What's half a season amongst friends. What's gutting for me if he does go is his managerial career at us would of always been under a cloud. Give him a fresh season.
The success of Charlton should be absolutely paramount. You can't just gift a manager half a season on sentiment.
If we finish top 6 and lose in the play off final, then I'd keep him on. Anything short of top 6 and he's simply got to go.
What an enlightening thread. I’m perfectly happy to stick with with Lee and if TS wants to give him next season then that’s fine with me too. What I would say is that I do think Lee has made innumerable quite big errors in judgement this season. Some quite inexplicable. I currently don’t see the Lee Bowyer prior to our Wembley win. I see a completely different person. I’m a little concerned by the manager I’m seeing at the moment. To his credit. He has probably gone through one of the most intense baptisms of football management fires in history. Some stability and support from the owner might be both Lee’s and the football clubs salvation. It’s all about next season now for me.
Let Bowyer have till Christmas. What's half a season amongst friends. What's gutting for me if he does go is his managerial career at us would of always been under a cloud. Give him a fresh season.
The success of Charlton should be absolutely paramount. You can't just gift a manager half a season on sentiment.
If we finish top 6 and lose in the play off final, then I'd keep him on. Anything short of top 6 and he's simply got to go.
And replaced by.... whom? There are two parts to such a decision. Many seem to be saying "he has to go" with no plan of even knowledge of who would or could come here. This is not the EPL. Or even The Championship. If there were good managers in L1.... they would not be in L1. The pay down here sucks.
TS is reluctant to sack him. When fans are back in and if we continue to underperform, the message will be heard loud and clear by TS and he will act IMO. Fans support is everything to him.
I would love to know whether Thomas Sandgard reads Charlton Life.
I have no idea, but If he does then he will know that there is an awful lot of fans wanting Bowyer replaced.
As a successful businessman I am sure that he has his finger on the pulse, and will be acutely aware of the groundswell of anger and frustration from the fans.
I think it would be odds on mate. Maybe not himself ( although it wouldnt surprise me if he did ) but odds on he has someone reading it and reporting back. Fans are his customers at the end of the day and any sensible business wants to know what its customers think
I hope that you are right, because surely if Thomas really knows the depth of feeling towards Bowyer, then Bowyer is a dead man walking.
Is there really a massive depth of feeling. There is a lot of noise but not huge numbers
Based on what I read on Charlton Life the Bowyer out brigade must be approaching 60/65 posters who say the same thing every day, ten times a day for 3 months.
The vast majority are 50/50 on the issue and would like Bowyer to succeed if he can :-)
Let Bowyer have till Christmas. What's half a season amongst friends. What's gutting for me if he does go is his managerial career at us would of always been under a cloud. Give him a fresh season.
The success of Charlton should be absolutely paramount. You can't just gift a manager half a season on sentiment.
If we finish top 6 and lose in the play off final, then I'd keep him on. Anything short of top 6 and he's simply got to go.
And replaced by.... whom? There are two parts to such a decision. Many seem to be saying "he has to go" with no plan of even knowledge of who would or could come here. This is not the EPL. Or even The Championship. If there were good managers in L1.... they would not be in L1. The pay down here sucks.
How does someone become a good manager if they never get the chance? David Moyes, Chris Wilder, Eddie Howe, Dean Smith. All managers who have managed in League 1, the last three in the last decade. Clearly if you had your way you would just have twenty managers chopping and changing Premier League sides.
There's no point him going right now if whoever comes in at that point isn't a clear and immediate improvement straight away.
My own feelings are that TS already has a plan of some sort, what Bowyer's part in that (or Jackson's, or Gallen's) is remains to be seen. But his (seemingly uncharacteristic) lack of public commentary suggests to me that forums and fan discussion are not going to be decisive.
There's no point him going right now if whoever comes in at that point isn't a clear and immediate improvement straight away.
My own feelings are that TS already has a plan of some sort, what Bowyer's part in that (or Jackson's, or Gallen's) is remains to be seen. But his (seemingly uncharacteristic) lack of public commentary suggests to me that forums and fan discussion are not going to be decisive.
Surely the quality of Bowyer’s signings were heavily influenced by the salary cap. Hence the quality of players we have. Let’s give him a chance with a normal window. I’m sure Thomas is looking at it the same way. I really don’t think it would be a good idea to get rid of Bowyer now.
You would hope TS is a good enough business man to have people around him that would shortlist, interview and decide on any future manager in a thorough and insightful manner. We as fans can discuss or speculate because that’s what fans do, it’s what makes football so attractive, because we’ve been watching it long enough to convince ourselves that we know what we are talking about!
I’m of the opinion that GR has been doing this for a while and it’s what’s upset LB. Could be way off the mark but we’ve seen this sort of rift at football clubs before.
Surely the quality of Bowyer’s signings were heavily influenced by the salary cap. Hence the quality of players we have. Let’s give him a chance with a normal window. I’m sure Thomas is looking at it the same way. I really don’t think it would be a good idea to get rid of Bowyer now.
I agree that the salary cap made it more difficult. However, Bowyer still signed players he’d targeted for some time such as Gunter and Watson. We might have more money then in a long time but it’s not a bottomless pit. Any manager will still be working within a budget and you have to have the confidence he’s got it in him to build the promotion winning squad. I respect your opinion if you feel differently, I just don’t feel he has anymore.
Transfermarkt is not great with actual player values but is fairly good at relative values. They rank us as #6 in L1 in player values. And our net player values are a far, far, far cry from Ipswich, who appear to be "going for it." And millions behind other top 4 clubs. Also we have one of the smallest teams in the division, which can hardly be blamed on Lee. It seems by this data that we are only mildly under-performing our payroll. Club value points to 6th and we are 8th. Maybe the real problem is this is a crap league with crap players and crap money. Not sure there is some savior manager that we could get who can change that dynamic.
Perhaps we signed too many players after the cap because of the embargo a d spent big on some wages ,hence smaller squad, due the the embargo and a cap we were the only ones truly trapped in big time .
Our squad size of 24 is 100% but that was limited to 25 by the cap. I am not sure how anyone else has got a significantly higher one.
Someone says we have a significantly smaller squad though.
When the transfer window shut you were allowed 25 players in your squad. You could have unlimited U23s on your pay roll, but you couldn't include them in your squad.
Hence Lapslie wasn't in our squad so didn't count towards the wage cap, but Oztumer did. (source Bowyer)
We had 25, right up to the limit, both in terms of numbers and wages, until Maddison left freeing up a space and wages at the last minute. Hence we could have signed a free agent. (source Gallen).
I added it up for the injury thread a few weeks ago, I think we have used 33 players. The current 24, Maddison, Williams, Levitt, Smyth, Bonne, Bogle, Doughty plus Barker and Henry (who don't count towards anything as they are u18s).
I am not sure how Hull can possibly have a 30 plus man squad, unless they have picked 5 or 6 of their u23s since the cap was abolished?
Transfermarkt is not great with actual player values but is fairly good at relative values. They rank us as #6 in L1 in player values. And our net player values are a far, far, far cry from Ipswich, who appear to be "going for it." And millions behind other top 4 clubs. Also we have one of the smallest teams in the division, which can hardly be blamed on Lee. It seems by this data that we are only mildly under-performing our payroll. Club value points to 6th and we are 8th. Maybe the real problem is this is a crap league with crap players and crap money. Not sure there is some savior manager that we could get who can change that dynamic.
Perhaps we signed too many players after the cap because of the embargo a d spent big on some wages ,hence smaller squad, due the the embargo and a cap we were the only ones truly trapped in big time .
Our squad size of 24 is 100% but that was limited to 25 by the cap. I am not sure how anyone else has got a significantly higher one.
Someone says we have a significantly smaller squad though.
We've used 33 in the League and 46 in all competitions. Of the 33 that appeared in the League, 24 are still at the club and that doesn't include either of our two reserve keepers who have yet to play:
Compared to most other clubs it's hard to argue we have a toxic fanbase. I don't understand why TS would leave Bowyer in charge based on our football this season but if he decides to do so we'll just have to sit back and see what happens. Bowyer got us promoted through the playoffs but given the squad we had at the time I don't think this is as big an achievement as many are arguing. We've been pretty dire this season and whatever the limitations of the squad he has to take a large part of the responsibility. I will be very disappointed if we start next season with him in charge given his limitations.
Let’s not start re-writing history. Getting promoted the season before last was a fantastic achievement.
I'm not rewriting history I just have a different view from you. We had a good squad so we should have been in the mix.
Weren't we something like 17th in the table for squad salary budget? The same as Burton Albion
No we spent nothing on transfers but had a, by league 1 standards, massive wage bill. Igor, Sarr, Bauer we on big money (for league 1) Taylor was on very good league 1 money. Remember our wage bill for that season was over 10 million quid.
It's hard to find what the "small clubs" spent on wages because they don't file full accounts, the "smallest" one I could find was MK Dons and they spent 5 million on wages.
Sunderland's wage bill for the same period was a staggering 20 million plus, Barnsley's was just over 7, Portsmouth's just over 6.
Whether we got bang for our buck is a different argument all together but the fact we had a big wage bill is just that, a fact.
I remember Airman saying we had the same budget as Burton but that may have been running costs.
It was phrased as a question so I will thank you to keep your hair on.
My point was that Charlton tried to operate in the Championship on Burton's sort of budget. Understandably they failed. It was close, but even Burton survived one season.
Virtually every club which has tried this has come down pretty quickly (see also Wycombe Wanderers this season). Rotherham are probably about to do it again, but Charlton are the biggest club to attempt it (AFAIK) and that was all about Roland.
In L1 we are a big club and even with the salary cap and turnover of players I'd expect our playing budget this season to be one of the largest just because of existing contracts.
When the next manager comes in, if he was producing poor performances and results after fifteen games would you want him sacked?
No, bowyer has had 3 years
Yes but just 4 months of that with a decent owner.
At the same time he probably had 15 of the highest played 20 players in the squads for the last 4 games. I know your a fan of soccernomics and the associated stats.
Until we loaned out Maddison we were right on the wage cap. If we only signed players no one else wanted how comes we had to pay them so much?
We haven't had to resort to playing a load of kids.
We signed 2 players for a fee in January, hardly anyone else in league 1 did.
Has it been ideal circumstances? Of course it hasn't. But most league 1 managers would have bitten your hand off to have Amos, Pearce, Oshilaja, Purrington, Morgan, JFC, Gilbey, Pratley, Chuks, Washington, Doughty, Williams, Bonne and Phillips as the core of a squad. That's what we had when the take over was done.
This is a good argument against his results. I wonder about the payroll advantage we really have given 90% of our players exist under a salary cap that equalized payroll. I've been trying to find comparitive payroll numbers in L1 for 2020-21 and so far am unable.
You can't even get conclusive numbers for last season yet, although they will be dropping any time now.
Our wage bill was 10 million, 2 years ago, and Gallen said if was about 3 or 4 million less now. That would put us currently in the same ball park as Luton and Barnsley the year we got promoted.
Now you could make an argument that the players aren't worth what we pay them but I don't think there is a player at the club that either wasn't signed, or had a new contract, under Bowyer/Gallen.
Apples and pears comparison. The £10m figure includes all staff including the academy and non-football staff (maybe 100 people). Gallen will only count the first team squad.
Comments
Wait we were just linked with wanting Russel Martin.
How does this work?
I have no idea, but If he does then he will know that there is an awful lot of fans wanting Bowyer replaced.
As a successful businessman I am sure that he has his finger on the pulse, and will be acutely aware of the groundswell of anger and frustration from the fans.
As carmaker Henry Ford once said, "If I'd asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses."
If I am correct, and that is a reflection of our fans feelings, that is a huge number.
2,000 - 5,000? - If thats the case thats no where near normal attendance levels, of course there will be those on twitter and not even on social media who no doubt have the same feelings so impossible to actually judge.
The view was about 90% in favour of what ever it was (I can't remember what the actual subject was) and I got pelters for pointing out even on the biggest forum it was still only about 0.1% of fans.
If anyone uses Charlton Life, Facebook, Twitter or Trust Surveys on the basis they are a gospel reflection of "all fans" opinions and base any significant business decisions on it, as the only source, their business won't do well for very long.
If anyone post on here, or else where, for any other reason than to express an opinion they need to give their head a wobble.
If we finish top 6 and lose in the play off final, then I'd keep him on. Anything short of top 6 and he's simply got to go.
And replaced by.... whom? There are two parts to such a decision. Many seem to be saying "he has to go" with no plan of even knowledge of who would or could come here. This is not the EPL. Or even The Championship. If there were good managers in L1.... they would not be in L1. The pay down here sucks.
My own feelings are that TS already has a plan of some sort, what Bowyer's part in that (or Jackson's, or Gallen's) is remains to be seen. But his (seemingly uncharacteristic) lack of public commentary suggests to me that forums and fan discussion are not going to be decisive.
Hence Lapslie wasn't in our squad so didn't count towards the wage cap, but Oztumer did. (source Bowyer)
We had 25, right up to the limit, both in terms of numbers and wages, until Maddison left freeing up a space and wages at the last minute. Hence we could have signed a free agent. (source Gallen).
I added it up for the injury thread a few weeks ago, I think we have used 33 players. The current 24, Maddison, Williams, Levitt, Smyth, Bonne, Bogle, Doughty plus Barker and Henry (who don't count towards anything as they are u18s).
I am not sure how Hull can possibly have a 30 plus man squad, unless they have picked 5 or 6 of their u23s since the cap was abolished?
We've used 33 in the League and 46 in all competitions. Of the 33 that appeared in the League, 24 are still at the club and that doesn't include either of our two reserve keepers who have yet to play:
LB 1st XI
Amos
Gunter
Famewo
Inniss
Maatsen
Watson
Pratley
Shinnie
Millar
Aneke
Stockley
LB 2nd XI
Maynard-Brewer
Matthews
Pearce
Oshilaja
Purrington
Forster-Caskey
Smith
Gilbey
Morgan
Washington
Schwartz
Not used:
Jaiyesimi
Harness
Barker
Vennings
So we comfortably have two players for every position and I doubt that many of our rivals are that fortunate
We cling to the hope that we might make the Play-Offs (we probably won't).
We cling to the hope that, if we make the Play-Offs (which we probably won't), then we will win them (we probably won't).
We cling to the hope that Bowyer will build a superteam once he has infinite cash to spend (he probably won't).
We cling to the hope that Bowyer is the man to deliver Sandgaard's vision of European football in seven six years (he probably isn't).
Some have asked 'why sack Bowyer now?'.
Answer: So that the new guy gets a flying start at the essential promotion that we need next season.
Virtually every club which has tried this has come down pretty quickly (see also Wycombe Wanderers this season). Rotherham are probably about to do it again, but Charlton are the biggest club to attempt it (AFAIK) and that was all about Roland.
In L1 we are a big club and even with the salary cap and turnover of players I'd expect our playing budget this season to be one of the largest just because of existing contracts.