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Bowyer's got to go (ed. p23 CAFCOfficial twitter confirm he's gone)

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  • Rothko said:
    Rothko said:
    As I’ve said before, when a decision is made, maybe in the summer or later, I’m relaxed to know that Sandgaard will pick from a far more interesting and inspiring list 
    We hope...
    You can’t keep Bowyer on the basis someone else might be worse. Although if he does go I do want someone with a recent promotion on their CV. Ryan Lowe and Russell Martin are promising managers but for me I’d rather someone a little more proven. In all honesty nobody other than Danny Cowley really springs to mind. Unless we can poach someone like Paul Warne if Rotherham go down. Having said that, although they’ve not spent much and were up against it, do you want to appoint someone who has just been relegated? Probably not. 
    You can’t sack without proper succession planning, if Danny Cowley is your only answer, you’re asking all the wrong questions 
    Fair point but there are plenty of options. League 1 clubs are not in a position to demand proven managers, the last two who got us promoted were in their first managerial jobs. Cowley did an outstanding job at Lincoln, and did a decent job at Huddersfield too. I'm not sure if he's the right man but I'm not totally against his appointment, 
  • Rothko said:
    Rothko said:
    As I’ve said before, when a decision is made, maybe in the summer or later, I’m relaxed to know that Sandgaard will pick from a far more interesting and inspiring list 
    We hope...
    You can’t keep Bowyer on the basis someone else might be worse. Although if he does go I do want someone with a recent promotion on their CV. Ryan Lowe and Russell Martin are promising managers but for me I’d rather someone a little more proven. In all honesty nobody other than Danny Cowley really springs to mind. Unless we can poach someone like Paul Warne if Rotherham go down. Having said that, although they’ve not spent much and were up against it, do you want to appoint someone who has just been relegated? Probably not. 
    You can’t sack without proper succession planning, if Danny Cowley is your only answer, you’re asking all the wrong questions 
    None of us, including you are sacking him, or not.  I could have a detailed 3 year succession plan and a fancy power point, you could say that if Bowyer goes we have to have Alan Pardew and it wouldn't change either of our, or more importantly the person making the decisions, opinions.

    For what it's worth the question I am asking is is Lee Bowyer the best manager to get us promoted next season.  If that's the wrong question I would like to know what the right one is. 
  • Rothko said:
    Rothko said:
    As I’ve said before, when a decision is made, maybe in the summer or later, I’m relaxed to know that Sandgaard will pick from a far more interesting and inspiring list 
    We hope...
    You can’t keep Bowyer on the basis someone else might be worse. Although if he does go I do want someone with a recent promotion on their CV. Ryan Lowe and Russell Martin are promising managers but for me I’d rather someone a little more proven. In all honesty nobody other than Danny Cowley really springs to mind. Unless we can poach someone like Paul Warne if Rotherham go down. Having said that, although they’ve not spent much and were up against it, do you want to appoint someone who has just been relegated? Probably not. 
    You can’t sack without proper succession planning, if Danny Cowley is your only answer, you’re asking all the wrong questions 
    Fair point but there are plenty of options. League 1 clubs are not in a position to demand proven managers, the last two who got us promoted were in their first managerial jobs. Cowley did an outstanding job at Lincoln, and did a decent job at Huddersfield too. I'm not sure if he's the right man but I'm not totally against his appointment, 
    There isn’t a Dean Smith out there at the moment, it would need someone achieving at the level and quality he was doing at Walsall who would appeal.

    We are going down a Brentford/Norwich type approach, so I would guess the next manager would be Frank/Farke type, who would fit the Sandgaard vision 
  • Forget Portsmouth Daniel Stendel 4/5, Bowyer is 12/1 on Skybet
  • Rothko said:
    As I’ve said before, when a decision is made, maybe in the summer or later, I’m relaxed to know that Sandgaard will pick from a far more interesting and inspiring list 
    We hope...
    You can’t keep Bowyer on the basis someone else might be worse. Although if he does go I do want someone with a recent promotion on their CV. Ryan Lowe and Russell Martin are promising managers but for me I’d rather someone a little more proven. In all honesty nobody other than Danny Cowley really springs to mind. Unless we can poach someone like Paul Warne if Rotherham go down. Having said that, although they’ve not spent much and were up against it, do you want to appoint someone who has just been relegated? Probably not. 
    Im not saying that we keep Bowyer on the basis someone else might be worse... Im just saying there is never the guarantee that Sandgaard will be able to find someone more interesting and inspiring 
    Strange one because Bowyer wasn't an interested or inspiring candidate. I don't think many chairman would have appointed him, he was an easy appointment from an owner who didn't give a shit. We're not going to get a big name appointment, we're a League 1 club who at best are going to finish around 8/9th. Sandgaard might be able to sell the project but talk of people like Wilder and Howe are ridiculous. I personally think it will be a League 1 manager who is overachieving or an assistant/coach from a Premier League team. I can't really think of an overachieving manager, Coleman or Appleton probably the only two who immediately spring to mind from the top half. 
    Absolutely, we always have to remember that we quite simply got lucky with Bowyer being hired at the time

    It'll be interesting if Sandgaard has been watching other Managers against us and has liked what he's seen from them; Ryan Lowe and Russell Martin for example, of course we see them in one game and like Scott Fraser want them for ourselves, but we have to question if they're not higher at this level because they cant get the consistency or whether its the restraints they're working under.

    Really hope we dont go for John Coleman though, reminds of Keith Hill a bit, both Northern versions of Alan Curbishley who I dont think could replicate their form at a club with higher expectations

    Neil Critchley is a potentially good example of someone from the U23s in the Premier League. Jody Morris an option perhaps, unemployed along with Frank Lampard (who we wouldnt stand a chance of getting) but is Jody himself ready to step out and go it alone himself yet?
    I wouldn't go for Coleman either, just saying he fits into the category of a current overachieving League 1 manager. 

    Critchley is doing a good job. I have no knowledge of U23 football really but the ex Birmingham midfielder Damien Johnson seems to be doing a decent job at Blackburn U23's. They are second in the league, above the likes of Arsenal, Spurs, Liverpool and Man Utd. 
  • My biggest problem with Bowyer by a significant margin is a lack of identity.  There is no way of playing that we strive to be the best at, suits us best, and will ultimately win us games, not even a formation we know is our strongest.  We have played in so many different systems this year it means that we haven't mastered anything, and our opposition may be well drilled into playing their way.  Look at Sheffield United, they had a system that they have worked on for years and it got them a great season in the Premier league.  Yes they got relegated but they are still in a better position than when they started and their recruitment has been poor.  You don't go from league 1 to the Premier league or league 1 to anywhere by not knowing how you will play at the start of the average game, what is your best eleven, and what is your strongest formation.
  • edited March 2021
    A question to the guys wanting Bowyer out.
    When the next manager comes in, if he was producing poor performances and results after fifteen games would you want him sacked?
    No, bowyer has had 3 years
    Yes but just 4 months of that with a decent owner.
  • A question to the guys wanting Bowyer out.
    When the next manager comes in, if he was producing poor performances and results after fifteen games would you want him sacked?
    No, bowyer has had 3 years
    Yes but just 4 months of that with a decent owner.
    Good job otherwise he wouldn't have been able to play the bad owner card and stayed in the job this long. Jaiyasemi (alright he may come good), Watson, Schwartz are what happens when he gets the players he wants with financial backing, let's not forget he chased Gunter for a while and deji but couldn't get them due to financial restraints. Give him a decent budget and I don't see an improvement. Lyle Taylor was a very good signing, but he must have received decent backing to sign him.
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  • A question to the guys wanting Bowyer out.
    When the next manager comes in, if he was producing poor performances and results after fifteen games would you want him sacked?
    No, bowyer has had 3 years
    Yes but just 4 months of that with a decent owner.
    At the same time he probably had 15 of the highest played 20 players in the squads for the last 4 games.  I know your a fan of soccernomics and the associated stats.

    Until we loaned out Maddison we were right on the wage cap.  If we only signed players no one else wanted how comes we had to pay them so much? 

    We haven't had to resort to playing a load of kids.

    We signed 2 players for a fee in January, hardly anyone else in league 1 did.

    Has it been ideal circumstances?  Of course it hasn't.  But most league 1 managers would have bitten your hand off to have Amos, Pearce, Oshilaja, Purrington, Morgan, JFC, Gilbey, Pratley, Chuks, Washington, Doughty, Williams, Bonne and Phillips as the core of a squad.  That's what we had when the take over was done. 
  • Cafc43v3r said:
    A question to the guys wanting Bowyer out.
    When the next manager comes in, if he was producing poor performances and results after fifteen games would you want him sacked?
    No, bowyer has had 3 years
    Yes but just 4 months of that with a decent owner.
    At the same time he probably had 15 of the highest played 20 players in the squads for the last 4 games.  I know your a fan of soccernomics and the associated stats.

    Until we loaned out Maddison we were right on the wage cap.  If we only signed players no one else wanted how comes we had to pay them so much? 

    We haven't had to resort to playing a load of kids.

    We signed 2 players for a fee in January, hardly anyone else in league 1 did.

    Has it been ideal circumstances?  Of course it hasn't.  But most league 1 managers would have bitten your hand off to have Amos, Pearce, Oshilaja, Purrington, Morgan, JFC, Gilbey, Pratley, Chuks, Washington, Doughty, Williams, Bonne and Phillips as the core of a squad.  That's what we had when the take over was done. 

    This is a good argument against his results. I wonder about the payroll advantage we really have given 90% of our players exist under a salary cap that equalized payroll. I've been trying to find comparitive payroll numbers in L1 for 2020-21 and so far am unable.
  • edited March 2021
    Transfermarkt is not great with actual player values but is fairly good at relative values. They rank us as #6 in L1 in player values. And our net player values are a far, far, far cry from Ipswich, who appear to be "going for it." And millions behind other top 4 clubs. Also we have one of the smallest teams in the division, which can hardly be blamed on Lee. It seems by this data that we are only mildly under-performing our payroll. Club value points to 6th and we are 8th. Maybe the real problem is this is a crap league with crap players and crap money. Not sure there is some savior manager that we could get who can change that dynamic.


  • AndyG said:
    It is a weird situation because I think even those people calling for a change of manager even now would change that stance quite quickly if they could see even the slightest improvement. Last season when we had the smallest budget in the championship and shit ownership we were putting in more entertaining performances than we are now. I'm no expert in body language but when you see Lee being interviewed does he look like someone who wants to be there? 
    Ts has put things in place corporate wise and has expressed his desire to grow the fan base beyond us die hard ones that continue to support regardless due to our underlying personality defects lol. I think it may prove difficult to attract new fans and corporate sponsors if you are a team that is based on pure negativity. I find it so frustrating that after all the recent years of shit the manager should be portraying such a dour outlook. Get a fucking spring in your step and start promoting a feeling of confidence and control ! You never know it might rub off on the players. Everyone just seems depressed ffs
    I wouldn't strictly call that true. First half against Forest at home, and second half against Reading away were the only performances of note I can remember. 

    When we went on our winning run at the beginning of the championship season we spent much of the games defending (very well by the way) and managed to basically score of the one or two chances we created. They were fantastic wins for sure, clearly to a game plan, but I wouldn't say the performances were entertaining on our side. 
  • When we went on our winning run at the beginning of the championship season we spent much of the games defending (very well by the way) and managed to basically score of the one or two chances we created. They were fantastic wins for sure, clearly to a game plan, but I wouldn't say the performances were entertaining on our side. 

    Same with the beginning of this season. Clean sheet after clean sheet.
  • This forum is sort of like a review system right now. You only ever have something to say when it’s bad. I the majority of fans are still behind Bowyer (maybe not 100%) 

    I have to admit I find it crazy most of the people that want bowyer out don’t even agree with eachother of why they want him out. 

    Half want consistently and then someone else says change the starting 11. Aneke must start every game, to “I would have brought on Schwartz there actually” 

    It’s clearly not the easiest job right now, and obviously everything is based on opinion. I’m not saying Bowyer is the best manager in the world, I just think any manager would struggle in this job right now 
  • AndyG said:
    It is a weird situation because I think even those people calling for a change of manager even now would change that stance quite quickly if they could see even the slightest improvement. Last season when we had the smallest budget in the championship and shit ownership we were putting in more entertaining performances than we are now. I'm no expert in body language but when you see Lee being interviewed does he look like someone who wants to be there? 
    Ts has put things in place corporate wise and has expressed his desire to grow the fan base beyond us die hard ones that continue to support regardless due to our underlying personality defects lol. I think it may prove difficult to attract new fans and corporate sponsors if you are a team that is based on pure negativity. I find it so frustrating that after all the recent years of shit the manager should be portraying such a dour outlook. Get a fucking spring in your step and start promoting a feeling of confidence and control ! You never know it might rub off on the players. Everyone just seems depressed ffs
    I wouldn't strictly call that true. First half against Forest at home, and second half against Reading away were the only performances of note I can remember. 

    When we went on our winning run at the beginning of the championship season we spent much of the games defending (very well by the way) and managed to basically score of the one or two chances we created. They were fantastic wins for sure, clearly to a game plan, but I wouldn't say the performances were entertaining on our side. 
    I'm not saying we played brilliant football mate. Maybe it's just me but I have watched every game since the stream started at the beginning of lockdown and I admit that the games were the highlight of my week regardless of result. Now I buy the stream but tbh have to talk myself into actually watching it as it just  pisses me off so much there just seems to be such a poor vibe and its frankly depressing to watch. For the last 4 matches I have turned off when LB comes on as it really is too much to bear
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  • Bowyer's got to go when Sandgaard decides.
  • Cafc43v3r said:
    A question to the guys wanting Bowyer out.
    When the next manager comes in, if he was producing poor performances and results after fifteen games would you want him sacked?
    No, bowyer has had 3 years
    Yes but just 4 months of that with a decent owner.
    At the same time he probably had 15 of the highest played 20 players in the squads for the last 4 games.  I know your a fan of soccernomics and the associated stats.

    Until we loaned out Maddison we were right on the wage cap.  If we only signed players no one else wanted how comes we had to pay them so much? 

    We haven't had to resort to playing a load of kids.

    We signed 2 players for a fee in January, hardly anyone else in league 1 did.

    Has it been ideal circumstances?  Of course it hasn't.  But most league 1 managers would have bitten your hand off to have Amos, Pearce, Oshilaja, Purrington, Morgan, JFC, Gilbey, Pratley, Chuks, Washington, Doughty, Williams, Bonne and Phillips as the core of a squad.  That's what we had when the take over was done. 

    This is a good argument against his results. I wonder about the payroll advantage we really have given 90% of our players exist under a salary cap that equalized payroll. I've been trying to find comparitive payroll numbers in L1 for 2020-21 and so far am unable.
    You can't even get conclusive numbers for last season yet, although they will be dropping any time now.

    Our wage bill was 10 million, 2 years ago, and Gallen said if was about 3 or 4 million less now.  That would put us currently in the same ball park as Luton and Barnsley the year we got promoted.

    Now you could make an argument that the players aren't worth what we pay them but I don't think there is a player at the club that either wasn't signed, or had a new contract, under Bowyer/Gallen. 
  • AndyG said:
    AndyG said:
    It is a weird situation because I think even those people calling for a change of manager even now would change that stance quite quickly if they could see even the slightest improvement. Last season when we had the smallest budget in the championship and shit ownership we were putting in more entertaining performances than we are now. I'm no expert in body language but when you see Lee being interviewed does he look like someone who wants to be there? 
    Ts has put things in place corporate wise and has expressed his desire to grow the fan base beyond us die hard ones that continue to support regardless due to our underlying personality defects lol. I think it may prove difficult to attract new fans and corporate sponsors if you are a team that is based on pure negativity. I find it so frustrating that after all the recent years of shit the manager should be portraying such a dour outlook. Get a fucking spring in your step and start promoting a feeling of confidence and control ! You never know it might rub off on the players. Everyone just seems depressed ffs
    I wouldn't strictly call that true. First half against Forest at home, and second half against Reading away were the only performances of note I can remember. 

    When we went on our winning run at the beginning of the championship season we spent much of the games defending (very well by the way) and managed to basically score of the one or two chances we created. They were fantastic wins for sure, clearly to a game plan, but I wouldn't say the performances were entertaining on our side. 
    I'm not saying we played brilliant football mate. Maybe it's just me but I have watched every game since the stream started at the beginning of lockdown and I admit that the games were the highlight of my week regardless of result. Now I buy the stream but tbh have to talk myself into actually watching it as it just  pisses me off so much there just seems to be such a poor vibe and its frankly depressing to watch. For the last 4 matches I have turned off when LB comes on as it really is too much to bear
    Same with me. I've mentioned about 2 games into our losing run this season that I had well and truely fallen out of love with Bowyer ball. We don't look great when we win most of the time, but that does not matter because there's no better feelings for me then warm fuzz you get after a Charlton win. But when we lose, because of a style of play it just feels like a gut punch. 
  • Dazzler21 said:
    Bowyer's got to go when Sandgaard decides.
    Totally on the money.

    Can I ask you a question ? Is it all purely down to results in your opinion? In the event that all of a sudden the team turn it around and we win the next 12 games 1-0 playing negative football but winning. Does that give the manager the green light for next season ? I dont think so which is why I'm asking. TS has been open about what type of team he wants but what would the fans think
  • AndyG said:
    Dazzler21 said:
    Bowyer's got to go when Sandgaard decides.
    Totally on the money.

    Can I ask you a question ? Is it all purely down to results in your opinion? In the event that all of a sudden the team turn it around and we win the next 12 games 1-0 playing negative football but winning. Does that give the manager the green light for next season ? I dont think so which is why I'm asking. TS has been open about what type of team he wants but what would the fans think
    I’m bowyer out due to his negative football BUT no manager in the world would get sacked after winning 12 in a row no matter how badly the team played in those 12 games.
  • edited March 2021
    AndyG said:
    Dazzler21 said:
    Bowyer's got to go when Sandgaard decides.
    Totally on the money.

    Can I ask you a question ? Is it all purely down to results in your opinion? In the event that all of a sudden the team turn it around and we win the next 12 games 1-0 playing negative football but winning. Does that give the manager the green light for next season ? I dont think so which is why I'm asking. TS has been open about what type of team he wants but what would the fans think
    I’m bowyer out due to his negative football BUT no manager in the world would get sacked after winning 12 in a row no matter how badly the team played in those 12 games.
    THIS combined with our awful form and strange transfers this season.

    No CB?!
  • AndyG said:
    Dazzler21 said:
    Bowyer's got to go when Sandgaard decides.
    Totally on the money.

    Can I ask you a question ? Is it all purely down to results in your opinion? In the event that all of a sudden the team turn it around and we win the next 12 games 1-0 playing negative football but winning. Does that give the manager the green light for next season ? I dont think so which is why I'm asking. TS has been open about what type of team he wants but what would the fans think
    I’m bowyer out due to his negative football BUT no manager in the world would get sacked after winning 12 in a row no matter how badly the team played in those 12 games.
    Yes but it also comes down to identity doesnt it ? I have some friends who are Spurs fans. They are confused as after years of underachieving Mourinho may well win something but it's a bit boring isnt it lol
  • Transfermarkt is not great with actual player values but is fairly good at relative values. They rank us as #6 in L1 in player values. And our net player values are a far, far, far cry from Ipswich, who appear to be "going for it." And millions behind other top 4 clubs. Also we have one of the smallest teams in the division, which can hardly be blamed on Lee. It seems by this data that we are only mildly under-performing our payroll. Club value points to 6th and we are 8th. Maybe the real problem is this is a crap league with crap players and crap money. Not sure there is some savior manager that we could get who can change that dynamic.


    Perhaps we signed too many players after the cap because  of the embargo a d spent big on some wages ,hence smaller squad, due the the embargo and a cap we were the only ones truly trapped in big time .
    Our squad size of 24 is 100% but that was limited to 25 by the cap.  I am not sure how anyone else has got a significantly higher one. 
  • Rothko said:
    Rothko said:
    Rothko said:
    As I’ve said before, when a decision is made, maybe in the summer or later, I’m relaxed to know that Sandgaard will pick from a far more interesting and inspiring list 
    We hope...
    You can’t keep Bowyer on the basis someone else might be worse. Although if he does go I do want someone with a recent promotion on their CV. Ryan Lowe and Russell Martin are promising managers but for me I’d rather someone a little more proven. In all honesty nobody other than Danny Cowley really springs to mind. Unless we can poach someone like Paul Warne if Rotherham go down. Having said that, although they’ve not spent much and were up against it, do you want to appoint someone who has just been relegated? Probably not. 
    You can’t sack without proper succession planning, if Danny Cowley is your only answer, you’re asking all the wrong questions 
    Fair point but there are plenty of options. League 1 clubs are not in a position to demand proven managers, the last two who got us promoted were in their first managerial jobs. Cowley did an outstanding job at Lincoln, and did a decent job at Huddersfield too. I'm not sure if he's the right man but I'm not totally against his appointment, 
    There isn’t a Dean Smith out there at the moment, it would need someone achieving at the level and quality he was doing at Walsall who would appeal.

    We are going down a Brentford/Norwich type approach, so I would guess the next manager would be Frank/Farke type, who would fit the Sandgaard vision 
    Surely John Coleman is doing roughly what Smith was doing? Dean Smith was over achieving at Walsall but didn't get a promotion. He was consistent at Brentford, but they only just squeezed into the top half every season. 
  • edited March 2021
    Rothko said:
    Rothko said:
    Rothko said:
    As I’ve said before, when a decision is made, maybe in the summer or later, I’m relaxed to know that Sandgaard will pick from a far more interesting and inspiring list 
    We hope...
    You can’t keep Bowyer on the basis someone else might be worse. Although if he does go I do want someone with a recent promotion on their CV. Ryan Lowe and Russell Martin are promising managers but for me I’d rather someone a little more proven. In all honesty nobody other than Danny Cowley really springs to mind. Unless we can poach someone like Paul Warne if Rotherham go down. Having said that, although they’ve not spent much and were up against it, do you want to appoint someone who has just been relegated? Probably not. 
    You can’t sack without proper succession planning, if Danny Cowley is your only answer, you’re asking all the wrong questions 
    Fair point but there are plenty of options. League 1 clubs are not in a position to demand proven managers, the last two who got us promoted were in their first managerial jobs. Cowley did an outstanding job at Lincoln, and did a decent job at Huddersfield too. I'm not sure if he's the right man but I'm not totally against his appointment, 
    There isn’t a Dean Smith out there at the moment, it would need someone achieving at the level and quality he was doing at Walsall who would appeal.

    We are going down a Brentford/Norwich type approach, so I would guess the next manager would be Frank/Farke type, who would fit the Sandgaard vision 
    Surely John Coleman is doing roughly what Smith was doing? Dean Smith was over achieving at Walsall but didn't get a promotion. He was consistent at Brentford, but they only just squeezed into the top half every season. 
    He’s doing a good job in an unusual season; which has the warping effect of a salary cap which helps a club like Stanley.

    Smith’s Walsall also played a very good brand of football, Coleman’s AS don’t for me
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