Can understand why this thread would have been started after the unacceptable results in February where if he was going to go, it would have been then.
However 8 points from 4, unbeaten and steadied the ship.
Why the anger now? It’s a results business and that has improved this month. Strange timing to bring this up again now.
If we don’t go up, so be it. The owner is the one who will make that decision in the summer with who will manage us going forward.
Remember us going back to basics years ago when in a bad run and it was not pretty to watch but it was effective.
Every other team in this division is doing the whole Saturday/Tuesday routine!
Yes, and look at the weird results. Do you think Pompey fans just shrugged their shoulders after getting absolutely tonked 4-1 by Northampton? The Pompey that is under new ownership and had a whole close season to prepare. John Marquis and all... I don't even have to look at their forums, I know that lot of old...it will be the same hysterical nonsense on display here.
The only consistent over-performing management team in L1, based on a logical consideration of results and resources, is that at Lincoln.
Can understand why this thread would have been started after the unacceptable results in February where if he was going to go, it would have been then.
However 8 points from 4, unbeaten and steadied the ship.
Why the anger now? It’s a results business and that has improved this month. Strange timing to bring this up again now.
If we don’t go up, so be it. The owner is the one who will make that decision in the summer with who will manage us going forward.
Remember us going back to basics years ago when in a bad run and it was not pretty to watch but it was effective.
I said in match thread after seeing the first XI that the fan base would be apocalyptic if we didn't get a result.
The problem with Bowyer teams style of play is that the performances never really matter when we continue to grind out wins, and are solid at the back.
The moment you begin to lose games, if you play turgid uninspiring football alongside that it's always going to make bad results feel twice as bad. Plenty of people would still complain if we played expansive attacking football and lost, but I'm convinced as a whole the fan base would be less feral.
For what it's worth I think starting Pratley and Watson was an accident waiting to happen, especially when we needed someone with a little more guile in the middle of the park to unlock Shrewsbury. What Pratley may add in in defensive solidity off the ball, he lacks when we are in possession and need an out ball. It's no shock that for me Watson had his worst game in a few when he didn't have a JFC or Smith alongside him.
However on a positive, no matter the quality of the sides we have played, we have 8 points in 4 games and seem to working better much better as a unit. If we can string a run of wins together all of a sudden everything changes as we are really not that far out of it.
Every other team in this division is doing the whole Saturday/Tuesday routine!
Yes, and look at the weird results. Do you think Pompey fans just shrugged their shoulders after getting absolutely tonked 4-1 by Northampton? The Pompey that is under new ownership and had a whole close season to prepare. John Marquis and all... I don't even have to look at their forums, I know that lot of old...it will be the same hysterical nonsense on display here.
The only consistent over-performing management team in L1, based on a logical consideration of results and resources, is that at Lincoln.
I'm not expecting us to "over-perform".
But I do expect us to be able to take on teams like Burton Albion (x2), Shrewsbury (x2), Swindon (x2), Rochdale, Fleetwood, Blackpool, Gillingham, Accrington Stanley (all operating with significantly weaker resources), and not put in the dreadful performances that we've seen.
And if we have a bad day at the office from time to time, I get it. But the form/mentality of this manager and players this season is far worse than just the odd blip. We have the 'resources' to justify being in a comfortable fight for the top 6.
Personally, I don't think we're really in that fight at the moment, which isn't acceptable when there are 2 whole months to go in a poor division. Calling that out is not 'hysterical' in my opinion.
People talk about Eddie Howe like he would give instantly give us promotion but they seem to forget that he wasn't a success at Burnley. Yes he was at Bournemouth but he was backed heavily there, I don't see why Bowyer couldn't do the same if he was backed in the summer.
Compared to most other clubs it's hard to argue we have a toxic fanbase. I don't understand why TS would leave Bowyer in charge based on our football this season but if he decides to do so we'll just have to sit back and see what happens. Bowyer got us promoted through the playoffs but given the squad we had at the time I don't think this is as big an achievement as many are arguing. We've been pretty dire this season and whatever the limitations of the squad he has to take a large part of the responsibility. I will be very disappointed if we start next season with him in charge given his limitations.
Let’s not start re-writing history. Getting promoted the season before last was a fantastic achievement.
I'm not rewriting history I just have a different view from you. We had a good squad so we should have been in the mix.
Weren't we something like 17th in the table for squad salary budget? The same as Burton Albion
No we spent nothing on transfers but had a, by league 1 standards, massive wage bill. Igor, Sarr, Bauer we on big money (for league 1) Taylor was on very good league 1 money. Remember our wage bill for that season was over 10 million quid.
It's hard to find what the "small clubs" spent on wages because they don't file full accounts, the "smallest" one I could find was MK Dons and they spent 5 million on wages.
Sunderland's wage bill for the same period was a staggering 20 million plus, Barnsley's was just over 7, Portsmouth's just over 6.
Whether we got bang for our buck is a different argument all together but the fact we had a big wage bill is just that, a fact.
I remember Airman saying we had the same budget as Burton but that may have been running costs.
It was phrased as a question so I will thank you to keep your hair on.
Utterly pointless. If the owner never changed it after we hadn’t won for 4 games, he’s not going to change it when we are 4 games unbeaten at this stage of the season.
Do wonder about us as a fanbase at times, it’s definitely evolved.
I’m curious to know what you mean by evolved? We’re basically 11th on PPG, we have a real chance of finishing in our lowest ever league position. We’ve been really poor for 18 months, i’m surprised at the amount of people who seem ok with this.
If I’m being completely honest @c@cafcsinger i just think as a fanbase we’ve collectively become increasing toxic. It feels like there’s now the right to demand this and that, with a backdrop of increased infighting etc.
We are having a bit of a nothing season, no one can deny that. It happens some times, and there’s underlying factors for this one. Managers like Parkinson, Slade and Robinson in recent years had similar nothing seasons and while there were definitely a few grumbles, there was nowhere near the level of spite, bordering hate we are seeing in the last couple of months. Especially for someone whose worn a few Charlton medals over the years. We’ve had a few better performances in the last fortnight and the second it’s dipped again, the outrage and nastiness comes out instantly.
I don’t think anyone is ok with this, but I just don’t ever remember us being that demanding. If we’d had yesterday’s draw a couple of years ago we’d have walked out the stadium saying ‘well that wasn’t a classic’ and shrugged our shoulders with the thought at least we didn’t lose.
The situation is different at the moment though. We are stuck at home watching it getting frustrated and with none of our normal Matchday experience stuff, and then having the manager on our screen minutes later when everyone is still vexed. We’ll now go on and have a repeat for a few days of the same people saying the same thing they’ve said daily (sometimes hourly) for the last few months.
I’m sure Sandgaard will change it in the summer and I’ll support that 100%. There’s enough justification there. And if he doesn’t, I’ll be surprised, but I’ll still back it 100% until it’s clear in more normal circumstances and with the right planning going into the season that the current set up isn’t good enough.
Calling for this and that NOW in shouty capitals at this stage isn’t going to achieve anything other than more fan disagreements and increasingly spite against the current manager. It just feels so unnecessary and not particularly the fanbase I think we used to be.
Just my opinion, not saying it’s the right one. It’s just the negativity, it’s tiring at times, even if there is a degree of fairness to it. There’s not one of us that doesn’t wish the team were doing better. But each year the football league is filled with about 70 teams whose fans think they should be doing better.
Some very fair points and I do agree with you about the none matchday experience effecting things. I do see it slightly differently, take the Fleetwood away game as an example, in non covid times we'd have what roughly 500 people there to see us play really poorly, with the majority not being able to watch a stream and thinking meh average 1-1 move on. Now we've apparently got the highest amount of streaming figures in league 1, is it just possible more are seeing how bad we really are?
Where we disagree is i don't think this is particularly toxic nor too different to the Slade/Robinson times. I seem to remember Robinson being called fat scouse gobshite on a regular basis on this forum, which was in poor taste.
Compared to most other clubs it's hard to argue we have a toxic fanbase. I don't understand why TS would leave Bowyer in charge based on our football this season but if he decides to do so we'll just have to sit back and see what happens. Bowyer got us promoted through the playoffs but given the squad we had at the time I don't think this is as big an achievement as many are arguing. We've been pretty dire this season and whatever the limitations of the squad he has to take a large part of the responsibility. I will be very disappointed if we start next season with him in charge given his limitations.
Let’s not start re-writing history. Getting promoted the season before last was a fantastic achievement.
I'm not rewriting history I just have a different view from you. We had a good squad so we should have been in the mix.
Weren't we something like 17th in the table for squad salary budget? The same as Burton Albion
No we spent nothing on transfers but had a, by league 1 standards, massive wage bill. Igor, Sarr, Bauer we on big money (for league 1) Taylor was on very good league 1 money. Remember our wage bill for that season was over 10 million quid.
It's hard to find what the "small clubs" spent on wages because they don't file full accounts, the "smallest" one I could find was MK Dons and they spent 5 million on wages.
Sunderland's wage bill for the same period was a staggering 20 million plus, Barnsley's was just over 7, Portsmouth's just over 6.
Whether we got bang for our buck is a different argument all together but the fact we had a big wage bill is just that, a fact.
I remember Airman saying we had the same budget as Burton but that may have been running costs.
It was phrased as a question so I will thank you to keep your hair on.
That's why I provided an answer to your question. Not sure what bit of that answer suggested I had not got it on.
I personally don't feel like the fan base as a whole are acting any differently to when were weren't performing under Robinson or Slade etc.
I disagree.
If Robinson or Slade had been serving up this abject crap for over a year, picking these bizarre teams and subs from this squad, giving demoralising interviews full of bs while throwing players under the bus, and almost every player going backwards in terms of performance - and after all this time looking like an unconfident group of individuals, then the fanbase would be acting very differently.
That said, Bowyer is lucky that the stands are empty.
I don't know how many, but we have a substantial section of fans who are a very 'unique' bunch: A total lack of ambition, an obsession with comparing and dwelling on the past, and the willingness to accept utter mediocrity when there is now really no excuse for it.
Utterly pointless. If the owner never changed it after we hadn’t won for 4 games, he’s not going to change it when we are 4 games unbeaten at this stage of the season.
Do wonder about us as a fanbase at times, it’s definitely evolved.
Agree. Its "evolved" into an ever increasing bunch of whining, self-entitled, over-opiniated morons who think they are experts on just about everything, including man management, formations and tactics. All having never watched a training session in their lives, much less got any relevant qualifications.
I'm just fucking glad I dont have to sit in a stadium with them any more.
Do you get any enjoyment out of this forum? Genuine question because all you seem to do is whine and carry a self inflated opinion of yourself. Ironic eh
I feel for Thomas , we deserve this shit, we’re Charlton fans (although I never expected us to be third tier shit for this much in my lifetime , that was millwalls spot) He’s going to spunk a lot of dough on going nowhere of note the management and players are underperforming, which I’d accept in the second tier , I was brought up on that ... third tier wankness, fcuk right off call it a sense of entitlement or whatever but we are at our (relative) shittiest of footballing times in our history and it’s not for me . whether bowyer can turn it around or not is for Thomas to decide but looking at what’s been served up with all the conditions , it’s not been good enough this season and it will be a big gamble whoever is in charge next year . it’s always better at the ground cos you’ve got beer or mates or family to distract you from the football , watching on the telly at home the family walk away and your left to look at the shit football , I know it’s possible to walk away but it really isn’t if you’re crazy for Charlton and that’s where I’m at no matter how wank we are .
I personally don't feel like the fan base as a whole are acting any differently to when were weren't performing under Robinson or Slade etc.
I disagree.
If Robinson or Slade had been serving up this abject crap for over a year, picking these bizarre teams and subs from this squad, giving demoralising interviews full of bs while throwing players under the bus, and almost every player going backwards in terms of performance - and after all this time looking like an unconfident group of individuals, then the fanbase would be acting very differently.
That said, Bowyer is lucky that the stands are empty.
I don't know how many, but we have a substantial section of fans who are a very 'unique' bunch: A total lack of ambition, an obsession with comparing and dwelling on the past, and the willingness to accept utter mediocrity when there is now really no excuse for it.
Okay. Let's use Robinson as an example as he was the last manager.
What was different in the fan bases reaction towards him compared to what is happening now with Bowyer?
Im sure if you dug up an old thread and replaced Robinson with Bowyer all the noise will sound much the same.
There will be just the same calls for his sacking, vile personal abuse, over analysis of tactics and press conferences as well as people on the other side of the fence arguing that he needs time, has had to work under difficult circumstances etc etc.
Furthermore go on any other teams football forum where the fans think the team are under performaning and you will read the same stuff.
That's just what football and social media are like when they combine together.
Utterly pointless. If the owner never changed it after we hadn’t won for 4 games, he’s not going to change it when we are 4 games unbeaten at this stage of the season.
Do wonder about us as a fanbase at times, it’s definitely evolved.
I’m curious to know what you mean by evolved? We’re basically 11th on PPG, we have a real chance of finishing in our lowest ever league position. We’ve been really poor for 18 months, i’m surprised at the amount of people who seem ok with this.
If I’m being completely honest @c@cafcsinger i just think as a fanbase we’ve collectively become increasing toxic. It feels like there’s now the right to demand this and that, with a backdrop of increased infighting etc.
We are having a bit of a nothing season, no one can deny that. It happens some times, and there’s underlying factors for this one. Managers like Parkinson, Slade and Robinson in recent years had similar nothing seasons and while there were definitely a few grumbles, there was nowhere near the level of spite, bordering hate we are seeing in the last couple of months. Especially for someone whose worn a few Charlton medals over the years. We’ve had a few better performances in the last fortnight and the second it’s dipped again, the outrage and nastiness comes out instantly.
I don’t think anyone is ok with this, but I just don’t ever remember us being that demanding. If we’d had yesterday’s draw a couple of years ago we’d have walked out the stadium saying ‘well that wasn’t a classic’ and shrugged our shoulders with the thought at least we didn’t lose.
The situation is different at the moment though. We are stuck at home watching it getting frustrated and with none of our normal Matchday experience stuff, and then having the manager on our screen minutes later when everyone is still vexed. We’ll now go on and have a repeat for a few days of the same people saying the same thing they’ve said daily (sometimes hourly) for the last few months.
I’m sure Sandgaard will change it in the summer and I’ll support that 100%. There’s enough justification there. And if he doesn’t, I’ll be surprised, but I’ll still back it 100% until it’s clear in more normal circumstances and with the right planning going into the season that the current set up isn’t good enough.
Calling for this and that NOW in shouty capitals at this stage isn’t going to achieve anything other than more fan disagreements and increasingly spite against the current manager. It just feels so unnecessary and not particularly the fanbase I think we used to be.
Just my opinion, not saying it’s the right one. It’s just the negativity, it’s tiring at times, even if there is a degree of fairness to it. There’s not one of us that doesn’t wish the team were doing better. But each year the football league is filled with about 70 teams whose fans think they should be doing better.
Some very fair points and I do agree with you about the none matchday experience effecting things. I do see it slightly differently, take the Fleetwood away game as an example, in non covid times we'd have what roughly 500 people there to see us play really poorly, with the majority not being able to watch a stream and thinking meh average 1-1 move on. Now we've apparently got the highest amount of streaming figures in league 1, is it just possible more are seeing how bad we really are?
Where we disagree is i don't think this is particularly toxic nor too different to the Slade/Robinson times. I seem to remember Robinson being called fat scouse gobshite on a regular basis on this forum, which was in poor taste.
He was definitely, but I don’t remember a particularly strong ‘sack him’ campaign going with it. The couple of times it was raised it was met with much greater support that the underlying factors (Roland) we’re leaving us hamstrung. As Grumpy so eloquently put “Robinson is very mediocre, irritating and overweight but he is not the core problem.” :-)
Should undoubtedly have been sacked about a month ago. It's possible a new manager may have got a new-manager bounce and helped get us out of this League. Don't understand why TS didn't act.
But I'm sure he won't be sacked now. Presumably TS has told Bowyer his job is safe until the end of the season. And as Bowyer has been a bit more relaxed recently I reckon he knows that.
As for those saying, it's a results business, we are unbeaten in four, Bowyer's turned it around etc I honestly just scratch my head in disbelief. The football we have played - or rather haven't played - in this unbeaten run has been appalling. Yesterday's second half was abysmal.
Given we were at home to a team near the bottom of the table, not in great form and with their manager ill and not able to be present I'm still bemused by the fact Bowyer thought it necessary to start with Pratley and Watson in midfield. It's baffling. And his post match comments about Jaiyesimi were crass.
A new start under a new manager can't come soon enough for me.
Utterly pointless. If the owner never changed it after we hadn’t won for 4 games, he’s not going to change it when we are 4 games unbeaten at this stage of the season.
Do wonder about us as a fanbase at times, it’s definitely evolved.
Agree. Its "evolved" into an ever increasing bunch of whining, self-entitled, over-opiniated morons who think they are experts on just about everything, including man management, formations and tactics. All having never watched a training session in their lives, much less got any relevant qualifications.
I'm just fucking glad I dont have to sit in a stadium with them any more.
Do you get any enjoyment out of this forum? Genuine question because all you seem to do is whine and carry a self inflated opinion of yourself. Ironic eh
Thanks for pointing that out. I get no enjoyment whatsoever as a matter of fact, so probably best I leave it there.
I just cant understand how anyone cannot see that LB has gone so far backwards he is unrecognisable. Yes he had to deal with all the off field shite but now when he should be upbeat and progressive he is dour and negative. He seems stuck in a rut and cant produce a different approach. In his press conference last week he himself said that Shrewsbury had big lumps at the back that would just head crosses away all day. Alot of people on here suggested it might be a game to start ronnie with washington and run in behind them. Fair enough we started with Stockley and washington but anyone could see watching the game Stockley wasnt going to get much joy, washington was causing problems running the lines. I would have thought that an idea may have been to swap Stockley for ronnie and add to the runs, but as per normal he gets swapped for Chuks and we are still sending high balls in for their big defenders to mop up. Obviously nobody will ever know if any lineup would have produced a different result but you cant get away from the fact that we are a 1 trick pony with LB at the moment, far to easy for opponents to nullify and devoid of any plan B. I'm ashamed to say I was actually hoping Watson would get booked yesterday and get his suspension in order to remove the pairing with pratley from LB,s options for Tuesday. I will continue to buy every stream but jesus it's a boring watch !
The comments about the fanbase being toxic I feel is unfair. After going through what the club has been through now we should be feeling positive about the future and moving forward.
I am of the opinion that changing Bowyer now would make the Play Offs an outside chance in the extreme so am far less bothered than I was. People have shared what they know and others have put their fingers in their ears or insulted them. Ultimately, It isn't about knowing more about tactics, but knowing how not to treat players from the players themselves.
There is little point anybody sharing what they know when other people don't want to listen. And when new things do come out the thread gets closed. Some of our fans can feel superior and look down on clubs that make a change when things go pear shaped. The real problem is, we are not literally looking down on those badly run clubs as they are all above us.
I personally don't feel like the fan base as a whole are acting any differently to when were weren't performing under Robinson or Slade etc.
I disagree.
If Robinson or Slade had been serving up this abject crap for over a year, picking these bizarre teams and subs from this squad, giving demoralising interviews full of bs while throwing players under the bus, and almost every player going backwards in terms of performance - and after all this time looking like an unconfident group of individuals, then the fanbase would be acting very differently.
That said, Bowyer is lucky that the stands are empty.
I don't know how many, but we have a substantial section of fans who are a very 'unique' bunch: A total lack of ambition, an obsession with comparing and dwelling on the past, and the willingness to accept utter mediocrity when there is now really no excuse for it.
Okay. Let's use Robinson as an example as he was the last manager.
What was different in the fan bases reaction towards him compared to what is happening now with Bowyer?
Im sure if you dug up an old thread and replaced Robinson with Bowyer all the noise will sound much the same.
There will be just the same calls for his sacking, vile personal abuse, over analysis of tactics and press conferences as well as people on the other side of the fence arguing that he needs time, has had to work under difficult circumstances etc etc.
Furthermore go on any other teams football forum where the fans think the team are under performaning and you will read the same stuff.
That's just what football and social media are like when they combine together.
What is different is that a lot of our fanbase (on here at least) are being unbelievably lenient with Bowyer.
Not being able to go is definitely affecting my patience with this brand of football. When I go, I spend time singing, enjoying the atmosphere, talking to mates, having a beer etc. However sitting at home you over analyse everything and the only place to vent is on here. The shit football has become all the more noticeable this season.
I personally don't feel like the fan base as a whole are acting any differently to when were weren't performing under Robinson or Slade etc.
I disagree.
If Robinson or Slade had been serving up this abject crap for over a year, picking these bizarre teams and subs from this squad, giving demoralising interviews full of bs while throwing players under the bus, and almost every player going backwards in terms of performance - and after all this time looking like an unconfident group of individuals, then the fanbase would be acting very differently.
That said, Bowyer is lucky that the stands are empty.
I don't know how many, but we have a substantial section of fans who are a very 'unique' bunch: A total lack of ambition, an obsession with comparing and dwelling on the past, and the willingness to accept utter mediocrity when there is now really no excuse for it.
Okay. Let's use Robinson as an example as he was the last manager.
What was different in the fan bases reaction towards him compared to what is happening now with Bowyer?
Im sure if you dug up an old thread and replaced Robinson with Bowyer all the noise will sound much the same.
There will be just the same calls for his sacking, vile personal abuse, over analysis of tactics and press conferences as well as people on the other side of the fence arguing that he needs time, has had to work under difficult circumstances etc etc.
Furthermore go on any other teams football forum where the fans think the team are under performaning and you will read the same stuff.
That's just what football and social media are like when they combine together.
What is different is that a lot of our fanbase (on here at least) are being unbelievably lenient with Bowyer.
It's no different though. Look at the 'Robinson Gone' thread I linked to. You have fans referring to his weight and calling him a gob shite who are happy to see the back of him, and the next post others arguing he was dealt a tough hand and unfairly treated.
Exactly similar to what is happening now.
I've been very open with my opinion on Bowyer and his style of football. But I wouldn't say that a lot of our fans are being unbelievably lenient on him because they have a different opinion to me. Because at the end of the day that's what it is, an opinion.
And back to my original point these opinions are no different a phenomenon to what has happened under recent previous managers. It's not toxic, it's not lenient, it's just all very normal on social media - perhaps slightly amplified because of lockdown.
Utterly pointless. If the owner never changed it after we hadn’t won for 4 games, he’s not going to change it when we are 4 games unbeaten at this stage of the season.
Do wonder about us as a fanbase at times, it’s definitely evolved.
I fear in some cases it could be worse than that ;-)
Utterly pointless. If the owner never changed it after we hadn’t won for 4 games, he’s not going to change it when we are 4 games unbeaten at this stage of the season.
Do wonder about us as a fanbase at times, it’s definitely evolved.
I’m curious to know what you mean by evolved? We’re basically 11th on PPG, we have a real chance of finishing in our lowest ever league position. We’ve been really poor for 18 months, i’m surprised at the amount of people who seem ok with this.
If I’m being completely honest @c@cafcsinger i just think as a fanbase we’ve collectively become increasing toxic. It feels like there’s now the right to demand this and that, with a backdrop of increased infighting etc.
We are having a bit of a nothing season, no one can deny that. It happens some times, and there’s underlying factors for this one. Managers like Parkinson, Slade and Robinson in recent years had similar nothing seasons and while there were definitely a few grumbles, there was nowhere near the level of spite, bordering hate we are seeing in the last couple of months. Especially for someone whose worn a few Charlton medals over the years. We’ve had a few better performances in the last fortnight and the second it’s dipped again, the outrage and nastiness comes out instantly.
I don’t think anyone is ok with this, but I just don’t ever remember us being that demanding. If we’d had yesterday’s draw a couple of years ago we’d have walked out the stadium saying ‘well that wasn’t a classic’ and shrugged our shoulders with the thought at least we didn’t lose.
The situation is different at the moment though. We are stuck at home watching it getting frustrated and with none of our normal Matchday experience stuff, and then having the manager on our screen minutes later when everyone is still vexed. We’ll now go on and have a repeat for a few days of the same people saying the same thing they’ve said daily (sometimes hourly) for the last few months.
I’m sure Sandgaard will change it in the summer and I’ll support that 100%. There’s enough justification there. And if he doesn’t, I’ll be surprised, but I’ll still back it 100% until it’s clear in more normal circumstances and with the right planning going into the season that the current set up isn’t good enough.
Calling for this and that NOW in shouty capitals at this stage isn’t going to achieve anything other than more fan disagreements and increasingly spite against the current manager. It just feels so unnecessary and not particularly the fanbase I think we used to be.
Just my opinion, not saying it’s the right one. It’s just the negativity, it’s tiring at times, even if there is a degree of fairness to it. There’s not one of us that doesn’t wish the team were doing better. But each year the football league is filled with about 70 teams whose fans think they should be doing better.
I realise that we must always have ambition but fans seem to think we're a bigger club than we are. We have been in turmoil for a number of years, we have a Manager that wants the best for the club, not somebody who is in charge of what he put as a "basket case of a club", plus an owner that is laying down foundations. Bowyer has made mistakes, we all do. Let him have the dough in the summer, give him till October/November then review the situation. When I started going to football in the mid 70's managers were given a contract and were left to get on with things for the long haul.
I have no problem with a manager making mistakes occasionally and then putting it right in the next game but when a manager continues to make the same mistakes over and over again there is something wrong. We are told that we'll only sign players that will improve what we have but then the new players that are signed only get minimal game time. That tells me, and probably them, those players are not better that what we already have. So why have we signed them? Bowyer just seems miserable and I'm sure that rubs off on the rest of the management team and players. Bowyer seems to be stuck in a rut and out of ideas and I can't see any way of him getting out of it. For that reason and for the sake of the club I love and support through thick and thin It would be better for him and us if he went. I realise that there is no guarantee when a new manager is appointed but sometimes doing nothing is worse.
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However 8 points from 4, unbeaten and steadied the ship.
Why the anger now? It’s a results business and that has improved this month. Strange timing to bring this up again now.
If we don’t go up, so be it. The owner is the one who will make that decision in the summer with who will manage us going forward.
Remember us going back to basics years ago when in a bad run and it was not pretty to watch but it was effective.
The only consistent over-performing management team in L1, based on a logical consideration of results and resources, is that at Lincoln.
The problem with Bowyer teams style of play is that the performances never really matter when we continue to grind out wins, and are solid at the back.
The moment you begin to lose games, if you play turgid uninspiring football alongside that it's always going to make bad results feel twice as bad. Plenty of people would still complain if we played expansive attacking football and lost, but I'm convinced as a whole the fan base would be less feral.
For what it's worth I think starting Pratley and Watson was an accident waiting to happen, especially when we needed someone with a little more guile in the middle of the park to unlock Shrewsbury. What Pratley may add in in defensive solidity off the ball, he lacks when we are in possession and need an out ball. It's no shock that for me Watson had his worst game in a few when he didn't have a JFC or Smith alongside him.
However on a positive, no matter the quality of the sides we have played, we have 8 points in 4 games and seem to working better much better as a unit. If we can string a run of wins together all of a sudden everything changes as we are really not that far out of it.
But I do expect us to be able to take on teams like Burton Albion (x2), Shrewsbury (x2), Swindon (x2), Rochdale, Fleetwood, Blackpool, Gillingham, Accrington Stanley (all operating with significantly weaker resources), and not put in the dreadful performances that we've seen.
And if we have a bad day at the office from time to time, I get it. But the form/mentality of this manager and players this season is far worse than just the odd blip. We have the 'resources' to justify being in a comfortable fight for the top 6.
Personally, I don't think we're really in that fight at the moment, which isn't acceptable when there are 2 whole months to go in a poor division. Calling that out is not 'hysterical' in my opinion.
It was phrased as a question so I will thank you to keep your hair on.
Where we disagree is i don't think this is particularly toxic nor too different to the Slade/Robinson times. I seem to remember Robinson being called fat scouse gobshite on a regular basis on this forum, which was in poor taste.
If Robinson or Slade had been serving up this abject crap for over a year, picking these bizarre teams and subs from this squad, giving demoralising interviews full of bs while throwing players under the bus, and almost every player going backwards in terms of performance - and after all this time looking like an unconfident group of individuals, then the fanbase would be acting very differently.
That said, Bowyer is lucky that the stands are empty.
I don't know how many, but we have a substantial section of fans who are a very 'unique' bunch: A total lack of ambition, an obsession with comparing and dwelling on the past, and the willingness to accept utter mediocrity when there is now really no excuse for it.
He’s going to spunk a lot of dough on going nowhere of note
the management and players are underperforming, which I’d accept in the second tier , I was brought up on that ...
third tier wankness, fcuk right off
call it a sense of entitlement or whatever but we are at our (relative) shittiest of footballing times in our history and it’s not for me .
whether bowyer can turn it around or not is for Thomas to decide but looking at what’s been served up with all the conditions , it’s not been good enough this season and it will be a big gamble whoever is in charge next year .
it’s always better at the ground cos you’ve got beer or mates or family to distract you from the football , watching on the telly at home the family walk away and your left to look at the shit football , I know it’s possible to walk away but it really isn’t if you’re crazy for Charlton and that’s where I’m at no matter how wank we are .
What was different in the fan bases reaction towards him compared to what is happening now with Bowyer?
Im sure if you dug up an old thread and replaced Robinson with Bowyer all the noise will sound much the same.
There will be just the same calls for his sacking, vile personal abuse, over analysis of tactics and press conferences as well as people on the other side of the fence arguing that he needs time, has had to work under difficult circumstances etc etc.
Furthermore go on any other teams football forum where the fans think the team are under performaning and you will read the same stuff.
That's just what football and social media are like when they combine together.
I'm just reading some comments on this thread and I can't see the fan base being any less divided then it is now.
But I'm sure he won't be sacked now. Presumably TS has told Bowyer his job is safe until the end of the season. And as Bowyer has been a bit more relaxed recently I reckon he knows that.
As for those saying, it's a results business, we are unbeaten in four, Bowyer's turned it around etc I honestly just scratch my head in disbelief. The football we have played - or rather haven't played - in this unbeaten run has been appalling. Yesterday's second half was abysmal.
Given we were at home to a team near the bottom of the table, not in great form and with their manager ill and not able to be present I'm still bemused by the fact Bowyer thought it necessary to start with Pratley and Watson in midfield. It's baffling. And his post match comments about Jaiyesimi were crass.
A new start under a new manager can't come soon enough for me.
I will continue to buy every stream but jesus it's a boring watch !
The comments about the fanbase being toxic I feel is unfair. After going through what the club has been through now we should be feeling positive about the future and moving forward.
There is little point anybody sharing what they know when other people don't want to listen. And when new things do come out the thread gets closed. Some of our fans can feel superior and look down on clubs that make a change when things go pear shaped. The real problem is, we are not literally looking down on those badly run clubs as they are all above us.
Exactly similar to what is happening now.
I've been very open with my opinion on Bowyer and his style of football. But I wouldn't say that a lot of our fans are being unbelievably lenient on him because they have a different opinion to me. Because at the end of the day that's what it is, an opinion.
And back to my original point these opinions are no different a phenomenon to what has happened under recent previous managers. It's not toxic, it's not lenient, it's just all very normal on social media - perhaps slightly amplified because of lockdown.
We are told that we'll only sign players that will improve what we have but then the new players that are signed only get minimal game time. That tells me, and probably them, those players are not better that what we already have. So why have we signed them?
Bowyer just seems miserable and I'm sure that rubs off on the rest of the management team and players.
Bowyer seems to be stuck in a rut and out of ideas and I can't see any way of him getting out of it. For that reason and for the sake of the club I love and support through thick and thin It would be better for him and us if he went.
I realise that there is no guarantee when a new manager is appointed but sometimes doing nothing is worse.