good stuff - he turned us from a joke club back to a proper respected football club - jimmy seed was before my time so as far as i am concerned, Alan Curbishley is the most influential figure in charlton's history - massive respect for the man and what he did for us - he also smashed the millwall hoodoo - there is no greater legend in this club's history and i would love him to get involved again.
If we were “a joke club” prior to Curbs and Gritty’s appointment in 1991 it was due to playing on someone else’s ground and nothing to do with the managers. Curbs didn’t get Charlton back to The Valley - if any manager had a claim on that it would be Lennie Lawrence because of the 1986 promotion and four years in the top flight that followed.
If you’re suggesting we were “a joke club” for other reasons then most of the league must have qualified for the same description.
good stuff - he turned us from a joke club back to a proper respected football club - jimmy seed was before my time so as far as i am concerned, Alan Curbishley is the most influential figure in charlton's history - massive respect for the man and what he did for us - he also smashed the millwall hoodoo - there is no greater legend in this club's history and i would love him to get involved again.
I know what you mean but you’ll be doing historians out of a job ;-)
good stuff - he turned us from a joke club back to a proper respected football club - jimmy seed was before my time so as far as i am concerned, Alan Curbishley is the most influential figure in charlton's history - massive respect for the man and what he did for us - he also smashed the millwall hoodoo - there is no greater legend in this club's history and i would love him to get involved again.
If we were “a joke club” prior to Curbs and Gritty’s appointment in 1991 it was due to playing on someone else’s ground and nothing to do with the managers. Curbs didn’t get Charlton back to The Valley - if any manager had a claim on that it would be Lennie Lawrence because of the 1986 promotion and four years in the top flight that followed.
If you’re suggesting we were “a joke club” for other reasons then most of the league must have qualified for the same description.
we had been a joke club with disinterested ownership for many years which eventually led to the ground share stuff which we then managed to turn around but were still ground sharing and then changing in portacabins when curbs and grit were in charge - it was curbishley's success and the money that brought in that enabled us to develop the club / ground and re build our support - that was all down to curbishley, not you or any of the fans and owners that got us back there and provided the platform for it to happen
good stuff - he turned us from a joke club back to a proper respected football club - jimmy seed was before my time so as far as i am concerned, Alan Curbishley is the most influential figure in charlton's history - massive respect for the man and what he did for us - he also smashed the millwall hoodoo - there is no greater legend in this club's history and i would love him to get involved again.
If we were “a joke club” prior to Curbs and Gritty’s appointment in 1991 it was due to playing on someone else’s ground and nothing to do with the managers. Curbs didn’t get Charlton back to The Valley - if any manager had a claim on that it would be Lennie Lawrence because of the 1986 promotion and four years in the top flight that followed.
If you’re suggesting we were “a joke club” for other reasons then most of the league must have qualified for the same description.
we had been a joke club with disinterested ownership for many years which eventually led to the ground share stuff which we then managed to turn around but were still ground sharing and then changing in portacabins when curbs and grit were in charge - it was curbishley's success and the money that brought in that enabled us to develop the club / ground and re build our support - that was all down to curbishley, not you or any of the fans and owners that got us back there and provided the platform for it to happen
You think we were a “joke club” because we weren’t in the Premier League, it appears? Curbs’ success was to get the club in the PL and keep it there. Only the north stand was built off the back of PL status. It’s frankly silly to suggest he did anything extraordinary in the period before that as all that was accomplished was keepIng the team in the division it had been in for most of the previous 40 years. Even then Lennie Lawrence had got it promoted to the top flight.
If you thought we were “a joke club” prior to 1998 it’s a pity you didn’t go and support someone else. The league was full of badly run under-achieving clubs and in a different way in a different era It still is. They must all be “joke clubs” by your definition.
if someone does the double over the scum then rename the ground after that unicorn manager .
Last CAFC manager to do so - A. Curbishley, the PL years were easy compared to that. It’s the equivalent of Fergies 1999 treble being done every year for a decade.
JS also did the double over them on our way to the top flight. They literally weren’t in our league after that, for a very long time.
I always have mixed feelings about this sort of thing - Hopefully Charlton will be around for many hundreds of years yet to come
Yet what if four Managers in that time dwarf the achievements of Curbishley and Seed etc.
Should they take their respective stand names, as the only advantage Curbs and Seed have is they came before them
That's optimistic thinking!
I can imagine our manager in 2050 being really pissed off that despite winning the PL 3 times and the Champions League twice, he won't get a stand named after him because Adkins and Albie Morgan nabbed the other 2
Will it not be possible to have a 5-sided ground in your fantasy world?
Man U can keep their Theatre of Dreams, we'll have our Pentagram of Daydreams.
good stuff - he turned us from a joke club back to a proper respected football club - jimmy seed was before my time so as far as i am concerned, Alan Curbishley is the most influential figure in charlton's history - massive respect for the man and what he did for us - he also smashed the millwall hoodoo - there is no greater legend in this club's history and i would love him to get involved again.
If we were “a joke club” prior to Curbs and Gritty’s appointment in 1991 it was due to playing on someone else’s ground and nothing to do with the managers. Curbs didn’t get Charlton back to The Valley - if any manager had a claim on that it would be Lennie Lawrence because of the 1986 promotion and four years in the top flight that followed.
If you’re suggesting we were “a joke club” for other reasons then most of the league must have qualified for the same description.
we had been a joke club with disinterested ownership for many years which eventually led to the ground share stuff which we then managed to turn around but were still ground sharing and then changing in portacabins when curbs and grit were in charge - it was curbishley's success and the money that brought in that enabled us to develop the club / ground and re build our support - that was all down to curbishley, not you or any of the fans and owners that got us back there and provided the platform for it to happen
You think we were a “joke club” because we weren’t in the Premier League, it appears? Curbs’ success was to get the club in the PL and keep it there. Only the north stand was built off the back of PL status. It’s frankly silly to suggest he did anything extraordinary in the period before that as all that was accomplished was keepIng the team in the division it had been in for most of the previous 40 years. Even then Lennie Lawrence had got it promoted to the top flight.
If you thought we were “a joke club” prior to 1998 it’s a pity you didn’t go and support someone else. The league was full of badly run under-achieving clubs and in a different way in a different era It still is. They must all be “joke clubs” by your definition.
Don’t be daft - how many other clubs had to groundshare and dint insult me about premier league and all that - I’m every bit as charlton as u and we were a joke club at that time even if u can’t accept that
good stuff - he turned us from a joke club back to a proper respected football club - jimmy seed was before my time so as far as i am concerned, Alan Curbishley is the most influential figure in charlton's history - massive respect for the man and what he did for us - he also smashed the millwall hoodoo - there is no greater legend in this club's history and i would love him to get involved again.
If we were “a joke club” prior to Curbs and Gritty’s appointment in 1991 it was due to playing on someone else’s ground and nothing to do with the managers. Curbs didn’t get Charlton back to The Valley - if any manager had a claim on that it would be Lennie Lawrence because of the 1986 promotion and four years in the top flight that followed.
If you’re suggesting we were “a joke club” for other reasons then most of the league must have qualified for the same description.
we had been a joke club with disinterested ownership for many years which eventually led to the ground share stuff which we then managed to turn around but were still ground sharing and then changing in portacabins when curbs and grit were in charge - it was curbishley's success and the money that brought in that enabled us to develop the club / ground and re build our support - that was all down to curbishley, not you or any of the fans and owners that got us back there and provided the platform for it to happen
You think we were a “joke club” because we weren’t in the Premier League, it appears? Curbs’ success was to get the club in the PL and keep it there. Only the north stand was built off the back of PL status. It’s frankly silly to suggest he did anything extraordinary in the period before that as all that was accomplished was keepIng the team in the division it had been in for most of the previous 40 years. Even then Lennie Lawrence had got it promoted to the top flight.
If you thought we were “a joke club” prior to 1998 it’s a pity you didn’t go and support someone else. The league was full of badly run under-achieving clubs and in a different way in a different era It still is. They must all be “joke clubs” by your definition.
Don’t be daft - how many other clubs had to groundshare and dint insult me about premier league and all that - I’m every bit as charlton as u and we were a joke club at that time even if u can’t accept that
As your man Barney used to admit - all the off the pitch stuff is easy when the team is doing well - truth is our owners back then wiukd have been scared to death of promotion to the top flight because if the investment that would have been required to ground and team hence why we ended up with a decrepid stadium and inertia set in
good stuff - he turned us from a joke club back to a proper respected football club - jimmy seed was before my time so as far as i am concerned, Alan Curbishley is the most influential figure in charlton's history - massive respect for the man and what he did for us - he also smashed the millwall hoodoo - there is no greater legend in this club's history and i would love him to get involved again.
If we were “a joke club” prior to Curbs and Gritty’s appointment in 1991 it was due to playing on someone else’s ground and nothing to do with the managers. Curbs didn’t get Charlton back to The Valley - if any manager had a claim on that it would be Lennie Lawrence because of the 1986 promotion and four years in the top flight that followed.
If you’re suggesting we were “a joke club” for other reasons then most of the league must have qualified for the same description.
we had been a joke club with disinterested ownership for many years which eventually led to the ground share stuff which we then managed to turn around but were still ground sharing and then changing in portacabins when curbs and grit were in charge - it was curbishley's success and the money that brought in that enabled us to develop the club / ground and re build our support - that was all down to curbishley, not you or any of the fans and owners that got us back there and provided the platform for it to happen
You think we were a “joke club” because we weren’t in the Premier League, it appears? Curbs’ success was to get the club in the PL and keep it there. Only the north stand was built off the back of PL status. It’s frankly silly to suggest he did anything extraordinary in the period before that as all that was accomplished was keepIng the team in the division it had been in for most of the previous 40 years. Even then Lennie Lawrence had got it promoted to the top flight.
If you thought we were “a joke club” prior to 1998 it’s a pity you didn’t go and support someone else. The league was full of badly run under-achieving clubs and in a different way in a different era It still is. They must all be “joke clubs” by your definition.
Don’t be daft - how many other clubs had to groundshare and dint insult me about premier league and all that - I’m every bit as charlton as u and we were a joke club at that time even if u can’t accept that
As your man Barney used to admit - all the off the pitch stuff is easy when the team is doing well - truth is our owners back then wiukd have been scared to death of promotion to the top flight because if the investment that would have been required to ground and team hence why we ended up with a decrepid stadium and inertia set in
I think you significantly underestimate what was needed behind the scenes (principally by directors) to keep the club afloat from the early 1990s to 1998. It is true that there was no appetite for investment in the ground pre the move to Selhurst, but the context also changed dramatically. Football was in trouble in the 1970s and 1980s. It wasn't a time of stadium investment in the lower divisions. Charlton and its particular ownership wasn't exceptional - the only exceptional thing was the (unnecessary) move to Selhurst Park.
The return in 1992 also coincided with the zeitgeist post-1990 and post-Taylor. The east stand was largely funded by the Football (Grounds Improvement) Trust. Nevertheless, Charlton had to work hard to bring in investment through share issues even in the Premier League and only finished paying for the north stand under Duchatelet, about a decade after Curbishley had left. A huge amount of debt was written off by previous directors.
good stuff - he turned us from a joke club back to a proper respected football club - jimmy seed was before my time so as far as i am concerned, Alan Curbishley is the most influential figure in charlton's history - massive respect for the man and what he did for us - he also smashed the millwall hoodoo - there is no greater legend in this club's history and i would love him to get involved again.
If we were “a joke club” prior to Curbs and Gritty’s appointment in 1991 it was due to playing on someone else’s ground and nothing to do with the managers. Curbs didn’t get Charlton back to The Valley - if any manager had a claim on that it would be Lennie Lawrence because of the 1986 promotion and four years in the top flight that followed.
If you’re suggesting we were “a joke club” for other reasons then most of the league must have qualified for the same description.
we had been a joke club with disinterested ownership for many years which eventually led to the ground share stuff which we then managed to turn around but were still ground sharing and then changing in portacabins when curbs and grit were in charge - it was curbishley's success and the money that brought in that enabled us to develop the club / ground and re build our support - that was all down to curbishley, not you or any of the fans and owners that got us back there and provided the platform for it to happen
You think we were a “joke club” because we weren’t in the Premier League, it appears? Curbs’ success was to get the club in the PL and keep it there. Only the north stand was built off the back of PL status. It’s frankly silly to suggest he did anything extraordinary in the period before that as all that was accomplished was keepIng the team in the division it had been in for most of the previous 40 years. Even then Lennie Lawrence had got it promoted to the top flight.
If you thought we were “a joke club” prior to 1998 it’s a pity you didn’t go and support someone else. The league was full of badly run under-achieving clubs and in a different way in a different era It still is. They must all be “joke clubs” by your definition.
Don’t be daft - how many other clubs had to groundshare and dint insult me about premier league and all that - I’m every bit as charlton as u and we were a joke club at that time even if u can’t accept that
As your man Barney used to admit - all the off the pitch stuff is easy when the team is doing well - truth is our owners back then wiukd have been scared to death of promotion to the top flight because if the investment that would have been required to ground and team hence why we ended up with a decrepid stadium and inertia set in
I think you significantly underestimate what was needed behind the scenes (principally by directors) to keep the club afloat from the early 1990s to 1998. It is true that there was no appetite for investment in the ground pre the move to Selhurst, but the context also changed dramatically. Football was in trouble in the 1970s and 1980s. It wasn't a time of stadium investment in the lower divisions. Charlton and its particular ownership wasn't exceptional - the only exceptional thing was the (unnecessary) move to Selhurst Park.
The return in 1992 also coincided with the zeitgeist post-1990 and post-Taylor. The east stand was largely funded by the Football (Grounds Improvement) Trust. Nevertheless, Charlton had to work hard to bring in investment through share issues even in the Premier League and only finished paying for the north stand under Duchatelet, about a decade after Curbishley had left. A huge amount of debt was written off by previous directors.
i do appreciate how much work was required behind the scenes trust me but none of it would have amounted to the fantastic stadium and re built support base we now have without curbishley because there would have been no need for that capacity, the loans would not have been taken out and the new generation of fans would not have been attracted - you can argue your point as much as u like but if lennie thought we were in great shape when curbs and gritt took over, he wouldn't have left - we were on our way back from the joke we had become but were a long way off - it wasn't just first team that curbishley re built - our whole youth set up and scouting system as well - again, trust me, i know so don't start belittling what i am saying - when redknapp took over at west ham, the first thing he did was try and work out why we were nicking all the youth talent from their area and set about trying to change that - that was curbishley and in particular a fella called Jimmy Hamson - i am quite satisfied, as Lennie is, that what curbishley achieved, makes him arguably our greatest ever manager, alongside Jimmy Seed - Lawrence did really well in the circumstances but the likes oif him and Lee remind me of the selhurst and pre selhurst days when we were a bit of a joke whether you like it or not - we always lost to millwall, we ran out to fake crowd noise and then ended up as paupers on crystal palace's and wesdt ham's ground - don't tell me we weren't a joke coz we were and i can say that because they were and are my club.
the youth and scouting set up pre lawrence collapsed when Les Gore died and wasn't properly re built until curbishley - again, i know that - that is all part of re building the football side of a club which feeds the first team, without which, offering free coach travel and other initiatives to fans, don't amount to much.
Lenny put himself in third place which feels about right to me.
the team he put together in 85/86 was a job very well done and the importance of staying up at birmingham v leeds and in subsequent years can't be understated given the joke we were so yes, i think you and he are right but his lack of appearance after he left has always worked against him for me as is the fact there's just something a bit croydon about him
Our youth setup was excellent BEFORE Curbs came along
The likes of Minto, Leaburn, Pitcher, Brown and Gordon Watson all came through in the late 80s/early 90s
The youth set up was fantastic throught the 80s and 90s, would struggle to think of a season during that spell when we did not get a new player make an appearance.
When the FA brought in the Academy system we did seem to lose our way for a few seasons in the noughties, never could understand losing such a good coach in Terry Westley and replacing him with Mick Browne
Without Lennie, none of what happened subsequently would have been feasible.
That said, I agree with Lennie in the 1, 2, 3 - Curbs, Seed, Lennie
Disagree
Seed
Curbs
Lawrence
Saying that Seed did what he did was in a different era doesn't diminish just how much he did.
The FA Cup and five highest league finishes are statistically enough but ignore his starting point.
Before JS we were a third division club who'd spent two or three seasons in tier two and just been relegated.
We'd never been near the top flight.
Seed changed all that, changed how the game saw the club and set the expectations that left fans so frustrated by the time Lennie arrived because no one until Lennie and then Curbs even came close.
Yes, Seed had new and early on ambitious owners but so did LL and AC at first
Our youth setup was excellent BEFORE Curbs came along
The likes of Minto, Leaburn, Pitcher, Brown and Gordon Watson all came through in the late 80s/early 90s
The youth set up was fantastic throught the 80s and 90s, would struggle to think of a season during that spell when we did not get a new player make an appearance.
When the FA brought in the Academy system we did seem to lose our way for a few seasons in the noughties, never could understand losing such a good coach in Terry Westley and replacing him with Mick Browne
And when players came through, they were being blooded in the top 2 divisions, not the 3rd tier which we've spent a hideous amount of time in recently. Money was (as ever) tight, but the mindset was giving the youngsters a go, hence when Barness (who I forgot in that list), and then Minto were sold we gave youngsters Paul Sturgess and Jamie Stuart a chance, rather than signing a journeyman.
I find it really sad how few home grown players have been given a chance this season
the youth and scouting set up pre lawrence collapsed when Les Gore died and wasn't properly re built until curbishley - again, i know that - that is all part of re building the football side of a club which feeds the first team, without which, offering free coach travel and other initiatives to fans, don't amount to much.
Lennie was manager from 1982. Les Gore died in January 1991, six months before Curbs and Gritty took over. And Charlton reached the FA Youth Cup final in 1987. So which period did it collapse in again?
Thrilled for a man who has given me the best years supporting CAFC. Congrats Curbs. Might be an idea to name some boxes after managers/players as well. Lennie deserves something IMO
the youth and scouting set up pre lawrence collapsed when Les Gore died and wasn't properly re built until curbishley - again, i know that - that is all part of re building the football side of a club which feeds the first team, without which, offering free coach travel and other initiatives to fans, don't amount to much.
Lennie was manager from 1982. Les Gore died in January 1991, six months before Curbs and Gritty took over. And Charlton reached the FA Youth Cup final in 1987. So which period did it collapse in again?
Comments
If you’re suggesting we were “a joke club” for other reasons then most of the league must have qualified for the same description.
Without Sir Lennie there would have been a very good chance we'd not have had the future successes.
(Theatre of Dreams is so, so naff, isn't it?).
The return in 1992 also coincided with the zeitgeist post-1990 and post-Taylor. The east stand was largely funded by the Football (Grounds Improvement) Trust. Nevertheless, Charlton had to work hard to bring in investment through share issues even in the Premier League and only finished paying for the north stand under Duchatelet, about a decade after Curbishley had left. A huge amount of debt was written off by previous directors.
i do appreciate how much work was required behind the scenes trust me but none of it would have amounted to the fantastic stadium and re built support base we now have without curbishley because there would have been no need for that capacity, the loans would not have been taken out and the new generation of fans would not have been attracted - you can argue your point as much as u like but if lennie thought we were in great shape when curbs and gritt took over, he wouldn't have left - we were on our way back from the joke we had become but were a long way off - it wasn't just first team that curbishley re built - our whole youth set up and scouting system as well - again, trust me, i know so don't start belittling what i am saying - when redknapp took over at west ham, the first thing he did was try and work out why we were nicking all the youth talent from their area and set about trying to change that - that was curbishley and in particular a fella called Jimmy Hamson - i am quite satisfied, as Lennie is, that what curbishley achieved, makes him arguably our greatest ever manager, alongside Jimmy Seed - Lawrence did really well in the circumstances but the likes oif him and Lee remind me of the selhurst and pre selhurst days when we were a bit of a joke whether you like it or not - we always lost to millwall, we ran out to fake crowd noise and then ended up as paupers on crystal palace's and wesdt ham's ground - don't tell me we weren't a joke coz we were and i can say that because they were and are my club.
The likes of Minto, Leaburn, Pitcher, Brown and Gordon Watson all came through in the late 80s/early 90s
When the FA brought in the Academy system we did seem to lose our way for a few seasons in the noughties, never could understand losing such a good coach in Terry Westley and replacing him with Mick Browne
Seed
Saying that Seed did what he did was in a different era doesn't diminish just how much he did.
The FA Cup and five highest league finishes are statistically enough but ignore his starting point.
Before JS we were a third division club who'd spent two or three seasons in tier two and just been relegated.
We'd never been near the top flight.
Seed changed all that, changed how the game saw the club and set the expectations that left fans so frustrated by the time Lennie arrived because no one until Lennie and then Curbs even came close.
Yes, Seed had new and early on ambitious owners but so did LL and AC at first
I find it really sad how few home grown players have been given a chance this season