our tactic appears to be to play it around the back, suck the opposition in and then ping a 40 yard ball - at least tonight we had some players who can run with the ball and go past people which is vital if playing on the break - maguire was good, shaw not bad but sako our best player - him and grealish have to start next match - i'm starting to buy into southgate's dull but controlled methods and maybe, just maybe, he is a tournament genius - more likely, we will concede early against one of the big teams next up and it will develop into a panicky shambles but maybe, just maybe not and we may just be onto something - boring our way to victory - we've tried everything else so why not
Surely Saka has to start now? Impressive going forward, good composure and has the engine to help out with defensive work, seriously impressed.
Also Maguire for his first game back was immense I thought, will never understand his doubters. One of the best centre backs in the world imo, feel very confident with him in that defense.
Southgate certainly has a headache for that starting XI, spoilt for choice in most positions and everyone is playing well enough to not be dropped bar arguably Kane, not that it should happen
Does anybody have any confidence in a team 1) with an out of form striker and no real reliable backup 2) no balance in the midfield, everyone either is a talented attacking midfielder who doesn’t defend or a holding midfielder who can only make short sideways passes. There is no one who can link up the lines. 3) a defense consisting of some combination of Mings, Maguire, Stones and Pickford all of whom have proven to make too many mental errors at the club level and 4)Southgate who is extremely conservative tactically. Does anyone have any confidence in beating Italy, Spain, France, Germany, Belgium, Portugal or even Netherlands? Let’s face it quarterfinals is probably the highest ceiling but a round of 16 exit is certainly a strong possibility if playing the group f runner up
I see the BBC are leading with Scotland going out and "going home"
1) last time I looked England has 10 x the population size of Scotland. There are more people inside the M25 than in Scotland. Can you imagine any other country running their main story about another country, especially as the majority watching the news item support a team that won & actually qualified !!
2) the game was at Hampden Park....in Scotland. They are already "home". They dont have to go anywhere now they are out. They wont be flying home anytime soon.
Grrrrr.
MOTD leading with the Scotland match.
Have I fallen asleep for 10 years & the Scots have not only won an Independence vote but now also rule the UK ???
The England game was shit and we'd already qualified. The Scotland game had 4 goals and meant something if they won. What's the problem?
A beautiful nights results , the sweaty’s sent packing and out having given their all, cucky plunts …. us cruising in reverse and through as group winners .
20%Win tourney 20% Runner up 20% Losing semi 20%losing 1/4 finalists 20%losing last 16
100% further than the great unwashed of the north .
Does anybody have any confidence in a team 1) with an out of form striker and no real reliable backup 2) no balance in the midfield, everyone either is a talented attacking midfielder who doesn’t defend or a holding midfielder who can only make short sideways passes. There is no one who can link up the lines. 3) a defense consisting of some combination of Mings, Maguire, Stones and Pickford all of whom have proven to make too many mental errors at the club level and 4)Southgate who is extremely conservative tactically. Does anyone have any confidence in beating Italy, Spain, France, Germany, Belgium, Portugal or even Netherlands? Let’s face it quarterfinals is probably the highest ceiling but a round of 16 exit is certainly a strong possibility if playing the group f runner up
Yes
Kane hasn't looked great but with players who work hard around him he will get his chance, his back up is DCL, can't think of many teams in the tournament who have a strike force as good as ours bar France?
The midfield issue is probably why we are playing so defensive, if we had a cm who could link and break the play I imagine we would look different, in Southgates defense I think he has recognised this and found a way to work around it, even though it is a bit boring.
Our defenders have been just fine, Stones wouldn't start for Man City if he wasn't good, Maguire is a fantastic player and Mings has proven me wrong completely, we have back up options of Coady and White who would start for most sides in this tournament.
I am fairly confident we can win our ro16 game, I imagine they're just as worried about us as we are them and also have thought of a possible early exit. Not one of those group of death teams have impressed me this tournament and I've been far more impressed by Italy and Belgium.
Time will tell but I am excited for our knockout game and genuinely believe we can win, if we don't I am positive this team will leave it all out there and give us a proud performance at least
Unless we can find a 30-40% improvement we have no chance against a better side and if we go a goal down then we are sunk.
That was a piss easy group and we won it, fair enough, but if people are being really honest we have shown absolutely nothing so far.
After the first ten minutes tonight after we had scored we had precisely one shot on target - and nothing at all in the second half.
The only consolation I can see is that we might be far better sitting back and hitting the better teams on the break as we have pace going forward.
However, if the better teams sit back in numbers then we don't seem to have the quality to break them down.
It's pretty frustrating because in 2018 we seemed to have a system that the players understood and you could see how we were trying to play but now, while we do look solid at the back, we are a shambles going forward, I can't see any shape or structure to our attacking play.
In 2018 you could see the likes of Alli and Lingard breaking from midfield and getting behind Kane but we are not really doing that now and we are struggling to get in behind teams as a result.
Kane doesn't help matters with his indifferent form, he was mediocre again tonight and looks listless and ineffectual.
A shambles going forward? Thought first half we looked the best we’ve looked for a while.
Does anybody have any confidence in a team 1) with an out of form striker and no real reliable backup 2) no balance in the midfield, everyone either is a talented attacking midfielder who doesn’t defend or a holding midfielder who can only make short sideways passes. There is no one who can link up the lines. 3) a defense consisting of some combination of Mings, Maguire, Stones and Pickford all of whom have proven to make too many mental errors at the club level and 4)Southgate who is extremely conservative tactically. Does anyone have any confidence in beating Italy, Spain, France, Germany, Belgium, Portugal or even Netherlands? Let’s face it quarterfinals is probably the highest ceiling but a round of 16 exit is certainly a strong possibility if playing the group f runner up
Yes
Kane hasn't looked great but with players who work hard around him he will get his chance, his back up is DCL, can't think of many teams in the tournament who have a strike force as good as ours bar France?
The midfield issue is probably why we are playing so defensive, if we had a cm who could link and break the play I imagine we would look different, in Southgates defense I think he has recognised this and found a way to work around it, even though it is a bit boring.
Our defenders have been just fine, Stones wouldn't start for Man City if he wasn't good, Maguire is a fantastic player and Mings has proven me wrong completely, we have back up options of Coady and White who would start for most sides in this tournament.
I am fairly confident we can win our ro16 game, I imagine they're just as worried about us as we are them and also have thought of a possible early exit. Not one of those group of death teams have impressed me this tournament and I've been far more impressed by Italy and Belgium.
Time will tell but I am excited for our knockout game and genuinely believe we can win, if we don't I am positive this team will leave it all out there and give us a proud performance at least
Coady and White would “start for most sides at this tournament” - really?
They are mid-table Premier League defenders, they probably would get a game for Scotland, North Macedonia, Austria, Hungary, Finland and Wales.
However, they sure as shit wouldn’t get near the starting line-ups of France, Spain, Italy, Germany, Netherlands, Portugal, Denmark, Sweden, Belgium or Croatia.
I swear we don't get some of the negativity that this thread has after a 1-0 Charlton win?
England brings out the absolute weirdest of mentalities in some people. Its as if they can literally do nothing right.
Major international tournaments are one of the most fun things about the game, why spend it constantly looking for the negative (even when we've won!)?
Football is supposed to be entertaining & have moments of skill & passion that gets you off your seat.
I swear we don't get some of the negativity that this thread has after a 1-0 Charlton win?
England brings out the absolute weirdest of mentalities in some people. Its as if they can literally do nothing right.
Major international tournaments are one of the most fun things about the game, why spend it constantly looking for the negative (even when we've won!)?
Football is supposed to be entertaining & have moments of skill & passion that gets you off your seat.
If you just want to win then watch tidlywinks.
What a load of bollocks. You’re a Charlton fan ffs, when have we been entertaining 😂
But did anyone else think the ref kept getting in the bleeding way?
I thought he was deliberately trying to get on the end of a few crosses 😳
My father once refereed a game that I played in. Our team were winning very comfortably (around 6 or 7 nil) and the opposition had an attack & put the ball into the box.......he dived full length & headed it past our goalkeeper. Said he just wanted to help them out......
Like I said earlier on this thread; a win's a win. Tournament football is about the results, and if we do nothing but 1-0 borefests on the way to winning it, we'll all be out celebrating it without a care for the performances.
No shots on goal from the 26th minute, against the Czechs, is pretty dull though. It's friendly levels of intensity.
Knockout football is never boring though, so I imagine most of those complaints will.be done with from now onwards.
Unless we can find a 30-40% improvement we have no chance against a better side and if we go a goal down then we are sunk.
That was a piss easy group and we won it, fair enough, but if people are being really honest we have shown absolutely nothing so far.
After the first ten minutes tonight after we had scored we had precisely one shot on target - and nothing at all in the second half.
The only consolation I can see is that we might be far better sitting back and hitting the better teams on the break as we have pace going forward.
However, if the better teams sit back in numbers then we don't seem to have the quality to break them down.
It's pretty frustrating because in 2018 we seemed to have a system that the players understood and you could see how we were trying to play but now, while we do look solid at the back, we are a shambles going forward, I can't see any shape or structure to our attacking play.
In 2018 you could see the likes of Alli and Lingard breaking from midfield and getting behind Kane but we are not really doing that now and we are struggling to get in behind teams as a result.
Kane doesn't help matters with his indifferent form, he was mediocre again tonight and looks listless and ineffectual.
A shambles going forward? Thought first half we looked the best we’ve looked for a while.
Up until the goal we were good - after that we had one shot from Harry Kane in the 26th minute and that was it - and it was very similar fare in the other two games.
What is our attacking structure? What are our patterns of play that open teams up? We are not putting in that many crosses - which is probably good since Kane is rarely in the box - and we seem to really struggle to break teams down when they sit deep.
The proof of the pudding is in the eating and two goals in three home games against very middling opposition is cause for concern, not least because we are creating so few chances.
If someone is silly enough to come at us all guns blazing then we do have the counter-attacking game to really hurt teams, as we showed in that fantastic 3-2 win in Spain which is the best football I have ever seen us play.
However, when teams sit deep we really do lack imagination and guile to break them down and if someone sits deep and can hit us on the counter then we are going to have a real problem.
With all the attacking talent we are struggling to include our inventiveness and gameplay has been very very average for 270 minutes.
I cannot see us beating Germany, France or Portugal.
Sadly.
The two holding midfielders stunts our pace of play. Both players in those roles are decent, but offer very little to our dynamism in the final third.
I pray he now can't drop Grealish and Saka and he decides Foden just has to play and we bite rhe bullet and drop Sterling and play Henderson instead of Philips.
Sterling has two goals, so I'll understand if Sputhgate plays him but I feel actual gameplay outside of the two goals, he's been consistently a weak.point in our attack.
Portugal the weakest of the three teams we could be get please.
If he wasn't going to drop Sterling last night after the Scotland shocker, then i honestly can't see how he will for Tuesday. Especially as despite how generally poor overall i think he's been...........he's got our only 2 goals.
With all the attacking talent we are struggling to include our inventiveness and gameplay has been very very average for 270 minutes.
I cannot see us beating Germany, France or Portugal.
Sadly.
The two holding midfielders stunts our pace of play. Both players in those roles are decent, but offer very little to our dynamism in the final third.
I pray he now can't drop Grealish and Saka and he decides Foden just has to play and we bite rhe bullet and drop Sterling and play Henderson instead of Philips.
Sterling has two goals, so I'll understand if Sputhgate plays him but I feel actual gameplay outside of the two goals, he's been consistently a weak.point in our attack.
Portugal the weakest of the three teams we could be get please.
I agree about Sterling which I know sounds crazy since he has our only two goals but when teams sit deep I just don't think he is the right player for us as he isn't a natural dribbler really in those tight spaces.
Sterling is also often careless in possession, once last night he gifted the ball in midfield in a really dangerous way and the Czechs countered.
Maybe against the better sides that leave space in behind then Sterling will be more effective but right now we need someone that can beat people in tight spaces and create something for us, more of a David Silva player if you like - and I know that's a tough ask!
Unless we can find a 30-40% improvement we have no chance against a better side and if we go a goal down then we are sunk.
That was a piss easy group and we won it, fair enough, but if people are being really honest we have shown absolutely nothing so far.
After the first ten minutes tonight after we had scored we had precisely one shot on target - and nothing at all in the second half.
The only consolation I can see is that we might be far better sitting back and hitting the better teams on the break as we have pace going forward.
However, if the better teams sit back in numbers then we don't seem to have the quality to break them down.
It's pretty frustrating because in 2018 we seemed to have a system that the players understood and you could see how we were trying to play but now, while we do look solid at the back, we are a shambles going forward, I can't see any shape or structure to our attacking play.
In 2018 you could see the likes of Alli and Lingard breaking from midfield and getting behind Kane but we are not really doing that now and we are struggling to get in behind teams as a result.
Kane doesn't help matters with his indifferent form, he was mediocre again tonight and looks listless and ineffectual.
A shambles going forward? Thought first half we looked the best we’ve looked for a while.
I want England to succeed as much as you do but having watched them disappoint for all my life its very hard not to see reality. We are not world beaters, have never really been apart from one summer a lifetime ago when the world cup of football consisted of a 2 week competition played on our own turf. When we knock out France or Germany in the next round I will be convinced Southgate is a tactical genius. Playing the the best we have for 45 minutes is meaningless. Last nights second half was poor from both sides. May be next match against a better team we might see the opposition attack with more conviction, that may allow us more room to play when we counter attack. But I do feel we are not good enough to defend against good teams despite our defensive stats.
Many positives, although there is the big doubt now we will play someone half decent so might struggle. I am hoping we can continue to improve as the tournament progresses, i am not confident but on paper we have the squad/players to get the results just not too much faith in Gareth.
The first half we looked good, it felt like we eased off again which seems to happen alot at 1-0 to England these days.
First part done, now just hope we can build from it and in an ideal world we pick up our performances. Stating the obvious but the next match is key, if (BIG IF) we win, we could really pick up and have a chance.
The hope has got to be that we raise our game to match when we go up against a better team. There's definitely signs that this team is capable of much more than it's shown so far, the question being whether we can tap into that when we really need to.
Thought it was good for being able to do the two things that this team is good at, first showing good attacking intent in the first 30 minutes, and then managing the game for the remaining 60 minutes, the Czech didn't have a shot on target in the second half.
Watching England divides CL and I imagine the Nation:
I had England winning our group with two wins and a draw (The draw with Croatia not Jocks) and then going out to Portugal in last 16 match ! Italy were winners for me before a ball was kicked in this tournament.
Saka was a delight to watch in the first half especially, as he played with total freedom to express himself. The Czech's couldn't handle him and his superb direct run opened up so many attacking options. Walker had a good game defensively but failed to give him passes to out pace a defender on a couple of occasions.
Again we defended the 1-0 lead in the 2nd half rather than go for the killer 2nd goal. A stalemate ensued as the opposition and England didn't go for Checkmate as both were already into the KO stages. Our game management is so different to Italy, Belgium, France or Germany who continue to probe for more goals even when they have the lead.
England have treated D group like a minefield but have come through unscathed but we all know the quality of the next opponent will be increased and we won't be able to just go through the motions 2nd half like a friendly match to give players minutes.
I assume Saka if selected will be hit hard by the C+D winners of Portugal/Germany or France in the early stages of the last 16 match, even if a yellow card is produced.
So far so good in topping our group and keeping clean sheets in every game and winning 2 out of 3, but the improvement needed now is immense.
The Germans went for the Jugular against Portugal when they were on the ropes; we have a history of standing back and letting the opposition clear their heads. Not just under Southgate but numerous managers.
We need to work on our set pieces as I'm not convinced we will score from open play in our next match.
I wish Southgate well because I get no pleasure in England failing and I desperately want to be wrong in my prediction for England.
Comments
But did anyone else think the ref kept getting in the bleeding way?
I thought he was deliberately trying to get on the end of a few crosses 😳
Also Maguire for his first game back was immense I thought, will never understand his doubters. One of the best centre backs in the world imo, feel very confident with him in that defense.
Southgate certainly has a headache for that starting XI, spoilt for choice in most positions and everyone is playing well enough to not be dropped bar arguably Kane, not that it should happen
The England game was shit and we'd already qualified. The Scotland game had 4 goals and meant something if they won. What's the problem?
us cruising in reverse and through as group winners .
20%Win tourney
20% Runner up
20% Losing semi
20%losing 1/4 finalists
20%losing last 16
"Stop trundling around the half way line and get into the box. And try to run faster than a oil tanker"
Kane hasn't looked great but with players who work hard around him he will get his chance, his back up is DCL, can't think of many teams in the tournament who have a strike force as good as ours bar France?
The midfield issue is probably why we are playing so defensive, if we had a cm who could link and break the play I imagine we would look different, in Southgates defense I think he has recognised this and found a way to work around it, even though it is a bit boring.
Our defenders have been just fine, Stones wouldn't start for Man City if he wasn't good, Maguire is a fantastic player and Mings has proven me wrong completely, we have back up options of Coady and White who would start for most sides in this tournament.
I am fairly confident we can win our ro16 game, I imagine they're just as worried about us as we are them and also have thought of a possible early exit. Not one of those group of death teams have impressed me this tournament and I've been far more impressed by Italy and Belgium.
Time will tell but I am excited for our knockout game and genuinely believe we can win, if we don't I am positive this team will leave it all out there and give us a proud performance at least
They are mid-table Premier League defenders, they probably would get a game for Scotland, North Macedonia, Austria, Hungary, Finland and Wales.
However, they sure as shit wouldn’t get near the starting line-ups of France, Spain, Italy, Germany, Netherlands, Portugal, Denmark, Sweden, Belgium or Croatia.
If you just want to win then watch tidlywinks.
No shots on goal from the 26th minute, against the Czechs, is pretty dull though. It's friendly levels of intensity.
Knockout football is never boring though, so I imagine most of those complaints will.be done with from now onwards.
What is our attacking structure? What are our patterns of play that open teams up? We are not putting in that many crosses - which is probably good since Kane is rarely in the box - and we seem to really struggle to break teams down when they sit deep.
The proof of the pudding is in the eating and two goals in three home games against very middling opposition is cause for concern, not least because we are creating so few chances.
If someone is silly enough to come at us all guns blazing then we do have the counter-attacking game to really hurt teams, as we showed in that fantastic 3-2 win in Spain which is the best football I have ever seen us play.
However, when teams sit deep we really do lack imagination and guile to break them down and if someone sits deep and can hit us on the counter then we are going to have a real problem.
I cannot see us beating Germany, France or Portugal.
Sadly.
The two holding midfielders stunts our pace of play. Both players in those roles are decent, but offer very little to our dynamism in the final third.
I pray he now can't drop Grealish and Saka and he decides Foden just has to play and we bite rhe bullet and drop Sterling and play Henderson instead of Philips.
Sterling has two goals, so I'll understand if Sputhgate plays him but I feel actual gameplay outside of the two goals, he's been consistently a weak.point in our attack.
Portugal the weakest of the three teams we could be get please.
Sterling is also often careless in possession, once last night he gifted the ball in midfield in a really dangerous way and the Czechs countered.
Maybe against the better sides that leave space in behind then Sterling will be more effective but right now we need someone that can beat people in tight spaces and create something for us, more of a David Silva player if you like - and I know that's a tough ask!
We spend too much time passing sideways and backwards and are very slow passing out from the back.
I think we could be a bit more adventurous in our play given our attacking options.
We are not world beaters, have never really been apart from one summer a lifetime ago when the world cup of football consisted of a 2 week competition played on our own turf.
When we knock out France or Germany in the next round I will be convinced Southgate is a tactical genius. Playing the the best we have for 45 minutes is meaningless. Last nights second half was poor from both sides.
May be next match against a better team we might see the opposition attack with more conviction, that may allow us more room to play when we counter attack. But I do feel we are not good enough to defend against good teams despite our defensive stats.
Unbeaten.
Clean sheet.
Sterling scoring.
Many positives, although there is the big doubt now we will play someone half decent so might struggle. I am hoping we can continue to improve as the tournament progresses, i am not confident but on paper we have the squad/players to get the results just not too much faith in Gareth.
The first half we looked good, it felt like we eased off again which seems to happen alot at 1-0 to England these days.
First part done, now just hope we can build from it and in an ideal world we pick up our performances. Stating the obvious but the next match is key, if (BIG IF) we win, we could really pick up and have a chance.
I had England winning our group with two wins and a draw (The draw with Croatia not Jocks) and then going out to Portugal in last 16 match ! Italy were winners for me before a ball was kicked in this tournament.
Saka was a delight to watch in the first half especially, as he played with total freedom to express himself. The Czech's couldn't handle him and his superb direct run opened up so many attacking options.
Walker had a good game defensively but failed to give him passes to out pace a defender on a couple of occasions.
Again we defended the 1-0 lead in the 2nd half rather than go for the killer 2nd goal.
A stalemate ensued as the opposition and England didn't go for Checkmate as both were already into the KO stages.
Our game management is so different to Italy, Belgium, France or Germany who continue to probe for more goals even when they have the lead.
England have treated D group like a minefield but have come through unscathed but we all know the quality of the next opponent will be increased and we won't be able to just go through the motions 2nd half like a friendly match to give players minutes.
I assume Saka if selected will be hit hard by the C+D winners of Portugal/Germany or France in the early stages of the last 16 match, even if a yellow card is produced.
So far so good in topping our group and keeping clean sheets in every game and winning 2 out of 3, but the improvement needed now is immense.
The Germans went for the Jugular against Portugal when they were on the ropes; we have a history of standing back and letting the opposition clear their heads. Not just under Southgate but numerous managers.
We need to work on our set pieces as I'm not convinced we will score from open play in our next match.
I wish Southgate well because I get no pleasure in England failing and I desperately want to be wrong in my prediction for England.