The problem with the pens is there’s not a lot of obvious players to take them, and everyone in the squad is young. Our experienced players shouldn’t go near a pen and then all you’ve got left is youth. Do you bring on Rashford or let Kyle Walker step up? People still go on about how in 96 we had Les Ferdinand and Robbie Fowler on the bench but we let Southgate take one. It’s so easy to judge with hindsight on penalties but in the end it comes down to luck and who holds their nerve on the night and unfortunately our young players did not. It’s still a fantastic tournament and it’s still progress. We took an Italy team that haven’t lost in 30 odd games to penalties in the final, there’s no part of that that wouldn’t have seemed like a fever dream just a couple of years ago. This was a fantastic tournament and we have a great team and a great manager and there’s more to come
Pickford 8.0: good save in the second half, fully did his job in penalties Stones: 5.5: neither good nor bad Maguire 7.0: not good with ball but good defense and made his pen Walker: 6.0: did his job Rice: 8.0: immense Phillips 6.0: did his job mostly Shaw: 8.5 MOM for England Trippier 5.0: barely noticed Kane 6.5: made his pen, was quite physical but got no chances Mount: 5.0 not his best match Sterling 2.5: an embarrassment with his pratfalls
subs
Grealish: 5.5... should have been brought on 20 min earlier Saka: NA: worst player of the match per minute played Rashford NA blew it Henderson NA stunk Sancho NA should not have been brought on
Southgate: 3.5 bad time for his worst night as manager in this tourney Ref: 7.0 actually glad he let em play and did not fall for all the pratfalls.
No mate, I watched this stone cold sober. We were beaten by a very good team and we took them all the way. Their tactics, skill and drive nullified anything we did after the first 30 minutes and from there most of the game we only had scraps. They all played their part both sides and the officials. Good final.
Fair take and you could be right... but England had em in shock and will still attacking at minute 20 and took their foot off the gas. Add in poor substitutes and questionable penalty choices and it seems like England could have done far better tonight. Italy was the better team but England had control and lost it. That's how it looked from here.
I think Italy were chasing playing high up the pitch and given their lack of pace at the back, it is probably something we could have tried to counter. The goal was coming and using the pace we had on the bench might have changed the balance a little. Of course, if we held out, Southgate would have been lauded a tactical genius. That is football.
Again, players when they haven't been on the pitch for very long aren't 'in the game'.
Taking a cold penalty with huge amounts of pressure when you've touched the ball maybe twice in 2 hours, isn't the best idea in the world.
Why does it matter? Or is that just a lazy stick to beat Southgate with?
Just don't understand the mentality of it.
It's not lazy. We made our team weaker for the final 2 minutes (Rashford at RB etc.) for what benefit? Players taking penalties when they haven't touched the ball, in a final of all places.
Have it be Kane, Sterling, Saka, Henderson, Maguire instead. Simple.
I haven't been impressed with the team all tournament. Apart from the Ukrainian match we've flattered to deceive. Far too negative - basically 1 striker & 2 supporting players and the rest defensive players. Like watching Charlton there was far too much backwards & sideways passing.
Been great but Southgate got that wrong IMO. Late subs, shit ourselves after a great 45 mins, poor pens, I dunno. It’s hard cos he’s been great but fucking hell that Italian team are average. I really disappointed.
34 games unbeaten is better than average. They will not go down as one of the greats but they won the tournament and that’s all that matters
Of course, but a couple of poor performances in this tournament plus outplayed in the first half tonight and then we let them off the hook. No taking away from what they’ve done but we should of took advantage.
First half were great, that outmanoeuvre on the England right was amazing. From about the second half onwards Italy showed their experience and their dominance of the middle which made a big difference. The penalties were an embarrassment by England - those bloody stutter step ups should be banned.
I haven't been impressed with the team all tournament. Apart from the Ukrainian match we've flattered to deceive. Far too negative - basically 1 striker & 2 supporting players and the rest defensive players. Like watching Charlton there was far too much backwards & sideways passing.
Is negativity/caution part of your working life that has spilled over into how you see football?
I know we’re all gutted ( we should be used to this by now) but overall the players have overachieved in this tournament I’m gutted, but proud of them.
We need to protect these young players. The issue is scapegoating sells newspapers for the corporations and fifteen minutes of fame on social for everyone else, but it’s important to not make the young players the centre of the losing narrative. Resist that and give them a change at redemption without having to go through hell to get there. This team is making progress.
Mancini's subs changed the game, Southgate's did not. So much for tactical nous. Italy were the better team and we allowed them to play their game by keeping our attacking players on the bench until it was too late. But Mourinho/Southgate will soldier on I am sure.
A quick check shows you've been quiet recently on England and then suddenly post after we lose... funny that.
Because I don't like Southgate's defensive approach to the game when we have so much attacking talent on the bench. We fluked the win against Denmark and sat back when ahead against Italy. I like winning, but you don't win trophies without taking chances. Southgate does not have that in his locker,. Maybe this will change him, maybe not.
I know its the norm, but I'm not a fan of the manager picking the penalty takers. I prefer the players to do it at the time with the captain organising.
Mancini's subs changed the game, Southgate's did not. So much for tactical nous. Italy were the better team and we allowed them to play their game by keeping our attacking players on the bench until it was too late. But Mourinho/Southgate will soldier on I am sure.
A quick check shows you've been quiet recently on England and then suddenly post after we lose... funny that.
Because I don't like Southgate's defensive approach to the game when we have so much attacking talent on the bench. We fluked the win against Denmark and sat back when ahead against Italy. I like winning, but you don't win trophies without taking chances. Southgate does not have that in his locker,. Maybe this will change him, maybe not.
You don't like the approach that got us to the final?
We conceded two goals and only lost to the best team in the tourney.
Funny how people call luck... Luck is when opportunity and preparations come together... Funny that isn't it.
Italy should definitely have had a red, but we're lucky cos of the ref, no... because they've learnt to play dirty and get away with it. So flukey of them.
From 25mins we played not to lose, so disappointing. Italy are average and with Chiesa and Insignia off for extra time we should have taken the game to them. Saka instead of Sancho was a bad decision. Shame Foden was out as he would have taken it to them. Gutted.
Overall not bad. Typical final with two teams both having times of being the better. First half up to about 30mins by far the best. From second half up until extra time so defensive, but if we won 1-0 you’d be saying how clever it was and I thought it was the way to go.
Penalties the worst way to win and lose - think the result shows the experience in the teams. Rashford (less so because of age), sancho and saka need to be supported - all younger/same age as me and I’m only 23. Can’t imagine taking a penalty at the euros final. Onwards and upwards
Also saving two substitutions until the 120th minute when he could have used them earlier to try and win the game in extra time?
In which case it would have been Sterling and Kane off, or one from Saka or Grealish would have been hauled back off
Then had it gone to 10-10; reliable Henderson would have been taking one and people would be bleating on asking why he was still on the pitch to take one given the fact that he's missed his last two for England!!
Mancini's subs changed the game, Southgate's did not. So much for tactical nous. Italy were the better team and we allowed them to play their game by keeping our attacking players on the bench until it was too late. But Mourinho/Southgate will soldier on I am sure.
A quick check shows you've been quiet recently on England and then suddenly post after we lose... funny that.
Because I don't like Southgate's defensive approach to the game when we have so much attacking talent on the bench. We fluked the win against Denmark and sat back when ahead against Italy. I like winning, but you don't win trophies without taking chances. Southgate does not have that in his locker,. Maybe this will change him, maybe not.
You don't like the approach that got us to the final?
Southgate just said he made the decision as to who took the penalties
Either he was at fault - Or he's just protecting those who didnt want to take one
On my ESPN feed, prior to the penalties starting, it seemed to show Southgate asking Grealish if he was alright with the decision (couldn’t tell at the time what the decision was, of course), and Grealish seemed to be saying, he was Ok with what the coaches decided. It certainly didn’t seem to be a player bottling it…. But rather a plan.
I haven't been impressed with the team all tournament. Apart from the Ukrainian match we've flattered to deceive. Far too negative - basically 1 striker & 2 supporting players and the rest defensive players. Like watching Charlton there was far too much backwards & sideways passing.
Is negativity/caution part of your working life that has spilled over into how you see football?
Not at all. I just like to see open & attacking football. Not mindless passing around the back that inevitably leads to the goalkeeper hoofing it upfield.
Comments
It's not lazy. We made our team weaker for the final 2 minutes (Rashford at RB etc.) for what benefit? Players taking penalties when they haven't touched the ball, in a final of all places.
Have it be Kane, Sterling, Saka, Henderson, Maguire instead. Simple.
He was the one coming deep to spray it left and right... After about 30mins we just stopped doing that
Either he was at fault - Or he's just protecting those who didnt want to take one
Maybe take into account penalties taken in training aren't quite the same as penalties during a final with 60,000 screaming all around you.
Something to take on board for the World Cup next year.
We conceded two goals and only lost to the best team in the tourney.
Funny how people call luck... Luck is when opportunity and preparations come together... Funny that isn't it.
Italy should definitely have had a red, but we're lucky cos of the ref, no... because they've learnt to play dirty and get away with it. So flukey of them.
Then had it gone to 10-10; reliable Henderson would have been taking one and people would be bleating on asking why he was still on the pitch to take one given the fact that he's missed his last two for England!!