So, Washington, Gilbey, Schwartz, Purrington out, Inniss semi-knackered. Good job we have strength on the bench (Watson, Pearce , Davison and a bunch of kids who do not look up to it.) All going well, Tommy.
Seeing as Washington looks like he will be missing there should now be no good reason why Schwartz can't be on the bench.....or are you telling me we will he going into a home match with just TWO strikers. One playing & 1 on the bench.
You'd think Ronnie would be selected. He's had 4 weeks of training under his belt. He can't be that unfit.
Only played 45mins though, the rest of the squad were at that stage of fitness a month ago
That is my point mate, he played for the U23's the other night. If he isnt in the squad on Saturday NA must really not fancy him. I personally would love to see him feature as I think DJ and Kirk might be just be able to supply balls into the box that he could feed on
If he was on the way out though I'd question if Adkins would even bother worrying about getting his match fitness up.
Leave that to the other poor sods that'll sign him if anyone.
I hope you are right as I have always wanted to give him a run of games. He cant have become a bad player overnight his scoring record is pretty good. Although was it a case as he was needed in the U23 as their squad is also thin ?
Which is where keeping medical issues secret helps nobody
With Gilbey we know that he has had a really bad case of Covid, which entirely explains why he isn't up to speed. Nobody is moaning that he isn't back playing. By contrast we are completely in the dark with Ronnie, and have no idea why 2 weeks into the season why he's still miles off match fitness.
Nads and TS should know that expectations were high and we needed to hit the ground running.
We won't win with 1 up front. Change the formation to a bog standard 4-4-2, using both wings to attack.
He probably won't, and this will be another boring display/defeat. Then Nads will be within 4 games of losing the support of the fans, and possibly the owner.
Which 2 central midfeilders do you expect to do the job that 3 haven't been able to do?
We won quite a lot of games with 1 up front towards the end of last season, including 1 when we scored 6.
The formation isn't the problem.
It is a problem at the Valley when we have no goal scoring midfielders, No super sub Chuks who could score and now no Washington who most of his career could score 1 in 3 in League1.
I like Stockley but he won't score many on the deck in the area without good support.
The Plymouth 6 goals was a freak result as for once we had support in the box and Gilbey was on Fire along with Millar and Stockley plus we had Chuks to bring on to run riot. We created more chances in that away game than 4 home matches.
I said we would struggle to score from open play in August with the 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 before the Sheff Wed game and so far just a Penalty and a header from a free kick.
With the players available, we are not set up to score and now Nigel's master plan of 25 clean sheets is looking dubious with the mandatory mistakes.
Not the formation per se, but we appeared to be one even more defensive when we went 2-1 down against MK Dons who couldn't believe their luck how easy the game was at 2-1 up.
Did you not want a striker to play along side Stockley ? Forget about anyone else I'm only talking about Cafc not Man city.
It doesn't matter if you play 1 striker, 2 strikers, 3 strikers or more IF your getting totally over run in midfield as we have in 3 of the last 4 games.
If you remember in the Plymouth game they started with a midfield 5 and changed it to a 4, then we totally over ran them. Gilbey, Millar et al were able to bomb forward, at will, even super sub Pratley got in the act. That was because we controlled the midfield.
You point about Chuks is correct and I haven't seen anyone suggest otherwise.
I'll ask again which 2 central midfeilders do we have that could do the job 3 have so far failed to do?
Sure we've been disappointing so far, typically in the second halves, but far too much pessimism on the Forum. The sum of the individual parts is greater than what's been shown so far but it's a brand new midfield and a new system, into which Washington does not fit, sadly, and which takes time to gel. Kirk will start by default and give more potency to the formation and deliver more crosses for Jayden to feed off. 2-0 the Addicks.
"He is an athlete so we would expect his recovery to take longer than Joe Bloggs with his 20 fags and eight pints a day lifestyle".
And then he will have to get fit and build up his minutes. Doubt we will see him before the window closes. Adkins can tell us "having him back is like a new signing."
Sure we've been disappointing so far, typically in the second halves, but far too much pessimism on the Forum. The sum of the individual parts is greater than what's been shown so far but it's a brand new midfield and a new system, into which Washington does not fit, sadly, and which takes time to gel. Kirk will start by default and give more potency to the formation and deliver more crosses for Jayden to feed off. 2-0 the Addicks.
The problem isn’t the fact it’s a brand new midfield. Kante, De Bruyne and Foden would be brand new as well but pretty sure we would have won our first games.
Point being that new or old, signing back up players from average league one teams is the issue. Not being new. Hollands and Stephens were new but that didn’t stop them tearing Bournemouth a new one on opening day under Powell
Sure we've been disappointing so far, typically in the second halves, but far too much pessimism on the Forum. The sum of the individual parts is greater than what's been shown so far but it's a brand new midfield and a new system, into which Washington does not fit, sadly, and which takes time to gel. Kirk will start by default and give more potency to the formation and deliver more crosses for Jayden to feed off. 2-0 the Addicks.
I agree that we have a new system; it’s called boring, predictable rubbish. The plan is; every time we get possession we lump it high and long to Stockley.
With the injuries, we will be playing some of the kids who are normally on the bench, to replace them Ged has suggested putting a few of the those from the women's team on the bench.
Sure we've been disappointing so far, typically in the second halves, but far too much pessimism on the Forum. The sum of the individual parts is greater than what's been shown so far but it's a brand new midfield and a new system, into which Washington does not fit, sadly, and which takes time to gel. Kirk will start by default and give more potency to the formation and deliver more crosses for Jayden to feed off. 2-0 the Addicks.
I agree that we have a new system; it’s called boring, predictable rubbish. The plan is; every time we get possession we lump it high and long to Stockley.
But nobody plays off him. At least if they did, we might have a chance playing like that.
Sure we've been disappointing so far, typically in the second halves, but far too much pessimism on the Forum. The sum of the individual parts is greater than what's been shown so far but it's a brand new midfield and a new system, into which Washington does not fit, sadly, and which takes time to gel. Kirk will start by default and give more potency to the formation and deliver more crosses for Jayden to feed off. 2-0 the Addicks.
I agree that we have a new system; it’s called boring, predictable rubbish. The plan is; every time we get possession we lump it high and long to Stockley.
But nobody plays off him. At least if they did, we might have a chance playing like that.
To some extent I agree with you but we are playing like that without anyone around him. We continue playing like that even when it is clear that it isn’t working.
Sure we've been disappointing so far, typically in the second halves, but far too much pessimism on the Forum. The sum of the individual parts is greater than what's been shown so far but it's a brand new midfield and a new system, into which Washington does not fit, sadly, and which takes time to gel. Kirk will start by default and give more potency to the formation and deliver more crosses for Jayden to feed off. 2-0 the Addicks.
I agree that we have a new system; it’s called boring, predictable rubbish. The plan is; every time we get possession we lump it high and long to Stockley.
But nobody plays off him. At least if they did, we might have a chance playing like that.
To some extent I agree with you but we are playing like that without anyone around him. We continue playing like that even when it is clear that it isn’t working.
Yes, there is often more than way to skin a cat, but also many ways not to. I suspect the hoofball we are currently playing is more through desperation when we realise we can't play through teams. If you play it as a tactic you need a bit more savvy on how to do it.
For me, you need two up front to do it and they have to be lively and strong and capable of winning their fair share of 50/50s. Then you don't so much need creativity in midfield, but energy and the ability to kick opponents when out of possession without getting sent off every week. You need reliable delivery too for set pieces.
If I was Adkins, I'd look at what I have got and what I am likely to get and if we can't achieve what we need to using plan A I'd investigate whether a plan B could be more easily achieved.
Sure we've been disappointing so far, typically in the second halves, but far too much pessimism on the Forum. The sum of the individual parts is greater than what's been shown so far but it's a brand new midfield and a new system, into which Washington does not fit, sadly, and which takes time to gel. Kirk will start by default and give more potency to the formation and deliver more crosses for Jayden to feed off. 2-0 the Addicks.
I agree that we have a new system; it’s called boring, predictable rubbish. The plan is; every time we get possession we lump it high and long to Stockley.
It clearly isn’t, based on the first 20 minutes at MK. The problems arise when we are pressed and there are no simple out balls. Easier to lump it long than dribble past MK pressers. So lump it long is Plan B rather than Plan A.
Sure we've been disappointing so far, typically in the second halves, but far too much pessimism on the Forum. The sum of the individual parts is greater than what's been shown so far but it's a brand new midfield and a new system, into which Washington does not fit, sadly, and which takes time to gel. Kirk will start by default and give more potency to the formation and deliver more crosses for Jayden to feed off. 2-0 the Addicks.
I agree that we have a new system; it’s called boring, predictable rubbish. The plan is; every time we get possession we lump it high and long to Stockley.
It clearly isn’t, based on the first 20 minutes at MK. The problems arise when we are pressed and there are no simple out balls. Easier to lump it long than dribble past MK pressers. So lump it long is Plan B rather than Plan A.
Exactly this. Its confidence more than plan B. The first 20 or so minutes at MK we passed the ball round quite nicely and a couple of times went longer. When we did go long Stockley took the ball on his chest and had people around him.
After we had a few misplaced passes and made that stupid mistake for their goal you could see the confidence drain out of them. No one was showing for the short ball, no one wanted it in tight spaces. By the middle of the second half Stockley was chasing ten yards to even challenge the center back for a 30/70 header without a Charlton player within 20 yards of him.
That's not tactics, that's a lack of confidence in either yourself or your team mates.
Unless you think the half time team talk was "Chrissy Gunter you smash it 50 yards with your wrong foot, Jayden you run after it and the rest of you stand and watch"?
Exactly the same thing happened in Parkinson's relegation season we often played some good stuff for 20 minutes then conceded a soft goal and started banging it in the general direction of Deon Burton.
I think Gunter is a player who can do a job at LB at a push. A push is the odd game where you might get away with it. It isn't really fair on him to judge him on playing in a position where his experience may get him through but his lack of a left foot is a major issue.
We don't have the technical quality to play a patient passing game through midfield, the likes of Dobson and Clare aren't that sort of player. Watson is better technically, but too slow now.
We seem to have gone from one extreme to the other, when you consider that in the first half of last season we had Williams, Shinnie and Maddison, all technically good but less athletic players plus the now absent JFC and Gilbey.
Sure we've been disappointing so far, typically in the second halves, but far too much pessimism on the Forum. The sum of the individual parts is greater than what's been shown so far but it's a brand new midfield and a new system, into which Washington does not fit, sadly, and which takes time to gel. Kirk will start by default and give more potency to the formation and deliver more crosses for Jayden to feed off. 2-0 the Addicks.
I agree that we have a new system; it’s called boring, predictable rubbish. The plan is; every time we get possession we lump it high and long to Stockley.
But nobody plays off him. At least if they did, we might have a chance playing like that.
It's lower down the football pyramid but I'm fortunate and geeky enough to watch A licence coaches doing training drills and watch matches and stand in ear shot of good young coaches. (late 20's and early 30's) The opportunity has arisen because of my son's work with a football foundation and a football team in part time football.
Every thing is focused on an attacking point of view in the central striker having support and not being isolated, whether its an attacking midfielder, his partner up front who can play alongside or drift to the flank as well as the two attacking full backs who are used instead of wingers which many of the young coaches prefer in the manner of Luke Shaw or Chilwell. When the attacking full back is ready to cross in an advanced position the support in and around the box is impressive and this is where we are struggling at Cafc.
The fact that the central striker played a dozen games for Millwall and the LB played a few games for Palace helps they are better than most of their opposition at this level because they are in their 20's and enjoy their football all be it at part time level. Also an 18 year old who was released by Cafc at 15 because "he was too small" after 5 years of Coaching. He is now 5ft 9" and has two good feet so is difficult to mark. He is such a fit lad that he is another option around the box.
But the point that is constantly made by the highly qualified coaches is in transition you attack quickly and accurately but everyone knows their role including the two defensive midfielders who cover either attacking full backs and help the CB's keep security if the move breaks down for a counter attack.
The work at Sparrows lane is so important on the training pitch but unfortunately maybe we just aren't capable of supporting Stockley with the unavailability of Gilbey from midfield and the Ronnie Schwartz saga, who if he doesn't make the bench against Wigan we have a major problem which should be sorted out ASAP by a professional football club.
We now know that targets we were interested in, went to Wigan because of the money so at least we know. I like transparency so appreciate that information.
Sure we've been disappointing so far, typically in the second halves, but far too much pessimism on the Forum. The sum of the individual parts is greater than what's been shown so far but it's a brand new midfield and a new system, into which Washington does not fit, sadly, and which takes time to gel. Kirk will start by default and give more potency to the formation and deliver more crosses for Jayden to feed off. 2-0 the Addicks.
I agree that we have a new system; it’s called boring, predictable rubbish. The plan is; every time we get possession we lump it high and long to Stockley.
It clearly isn’t, based on the first 20 minutes at MK. The problems arise when we are pressed and there are no simple out balls. Easier to lump it long than dribble past MK pressers. So lump it long is Plan B rather than Plan A.
There is an old military axiom, “ No plan survives first contact with enemy”. The meaning being you must be able to adapt whatever you planned to do to the circumstances in which you find yourself. We are not doing that: As soon as the opposition gets itself going we play lump ball and that becomes the plan by default. It happened at Oxford and M.K.Dons.
I have no idea what the team should be for tomorrow; these days my in-depth knowledge of the squad and possible alternatives is minimal.
What I will say is:
If Albie is going to play he should be playing deeper. Much deeper. At the risk of mixing up positions from different codes of football, he's not a centre-half-forward, he should be playing a quarterback-type role across half-back where he has the whole pitch in front of him and can pick out a damaging pass. That's where I've seen him play his best football for us in the past, not playing just behind the main front man.
The bonus from this will be that the further away from the oppo penalty box Albie is, the less chance he has of blazing a shot into row Z ... of the LCC Stand. His shooting at goal is, at best, woeful and is tantamount to just giving the ball back to the other mob and running a few seconds off the clock.
There needs to be more movement in and around the Headmaster. If we're going to play balls to his head, either long balls from the back or crosses from the wings, we need someone there to pick up the crumbs if the ball gets back to the deck, whether that's playing a small forward alongside Jayden or having a bit of run from midfield to pick up the loose ball. Too often the skipper is ploughing a lone furrow up top, having to win the header and then his own knock-down. We're not going to win too many games playing like that.
I fear that we may get our arse handed to us on a plate tomorrow and we can't even rely on a solid rear-guard action to save us. In fact I'd rather Nads named Big Bad Bustling Bob Bolder between the sticks and Mark Bowen at No 3 - both will be at the ground (Bowen can still be part of the Charlton TV coverage and run down to the pitch in time for kick off. With Washy's back giving him grief we'd have a replacement if we were awarded a penalty) and even at their advanced ages would probably be better than the present incumbents.
I can’t take another game of seeing Chris Gunter at LB. I’d much rather put Famewo there, he has the speed, strength and technical ability to be a competent LB at this level.
It also allows Pearce to come back in and add a bit more leadership to the team. Inniss and Pearce handled Wyke well last season and I’d expect more of the same here.
We can’t do anything with the midfield and attack, it is what it is. My only recommendation would be to hire a sniper from Woolwich barracks and shoot the first player to smash a hit and hope ball to Stockley, as Adkins’ passing football message clearly isn’t getting through.
I have no idea what the team should be for tomorrow; these days my in-depth knowledge of the squad and possible alternatives is minimal.
What I will say is:
If Albie is going to play he should be playing deeper. Much deeper. At the risk of mixing up positions from different codes of football, he's not a centre-half-forward, he should be playing a quarterback-type role across half-back where he has the whole pitch in front of him and can pick out a damaging pass. That's where I've seen him play his best football for us in the past, not playing just behind the main front man.
The bonus from this will be that the further away from the oppo penalty box Albie is, the less chance he has of blazing a shot into row Z ... of the LCC Stand. His shooting at goal is, at best, woeful and is tantamount to just giving the ball back to the other mob and running a few seconds off the clock.
There needs to be more movement in and around the Headmaster. If we're going to play balls to his head, either long balls from the back or crosses from the wings, we need someone there to pick up the crumbs if the ball gets back to the deck, whether that's playing a small forward alongside Jayden or having a bit of run from midfield to pick up the loose ball. Too often the skipper is ploughing a lone furrow up top, having to win the header and then his own knock-down. We're not going to win too many games playing like that.
I fear that we may get our arse handed to us on a plate tomorrow and we can't even rely on a solid rear-guard action to save us. In fact I'd rather Nads named Big Bad Bustling Bob Bolder between the sticks and Mark Bowen at No 3 - both will be at the ground (Bowen can still be part of the Charlton TV coverage and run down to the pitch in time for kick off. With Washy's back giving him grief we'd have a replacement if we were awarded a penalty) and even at their advanced ages would probably be better than the present incumbents.
CAFC 0 Wigan 3
I agree with this, but we need a new CAM or Gilbey fit. I have to be honest and admit I have sort of been impressed with Morgan trying to play this role but he is a little short (not in height). But I think he can contribute as a starter as he has developed a good workrate and he does have a fair mount of ability. He lacks consistency in his quality and decision making, but both could improve if he had a partner to help carry the load. Possibly. Clare is a player you bring on when tiredness sets in.
Has anyone made the joke yet that we should only be taking shots from outside the area tomorrow? If they haven't, we should definitely take lots of shots from outside the area tomorrow
Has anyone made the joke yet that we should only be taking shots from outside the area tomorrow? If they haven't, we should definitely take lots of shots from outside the area tomorrow
Can someone explain to me how 4 players in midfield is weaker than 3 players in midfield because I can’t see that I must be mental.
This 433 is only going to work if one of the wide players comes in along side stockley when the other wide player has the ball. Ours are just staying wide at the moment. So all 3 are isolated the cross has to be right on the money with only stockley to aim at and there’s not many players at this level can do that constantly. Astockley has 2 CB to deal with while the full backs mark our wide players. It ain’t going to work by keeping the wide players wide we haven’t scored one goal from open play yet
Comments
Although was it a case as he was needed in the U23 as their squad is also thin ?
With Gilbey we know that he has had a really bad case of Covid, which entirely explains why he isn't up to speed. Nobody is moaning that he isn't back playing. By contrast we are completely in the dark with Ronnie, and have no idea why 2 weeks into the season why he's still miles off match fitness.
If you remember in the Plymouth game they started with a midfield 5 and changed it to a 4, then we totally over ran them. Gilbey, Millar et al were able to bomb forward, at will, even super sub Pratley got in the act. That was because we controlled the midfield.
You point about Chuks is correct and I haven't seen anyone suggest otherwise.
I'll ask again which 2 central midfeilders do we have that could do the job 3 have so far failed to do?
The sum of the individual parts is greater than what's been shown so far but it's a brand new midfield and a new system, into which Washington does not fit, sadly, and which takes time to gel.
Kirk will start by default and give more potency to the formation and deliver more crosses for Jayden to feed off.
2-0 the Addicks.
Point being that new or old, signing back up players from average league one teams is the issue. Not being new. Hollands and Stephens were new but that didn’t stop them tearing Bournemouth a new one on opening day under Powell
For me, you need two up front to do it and they have to be lively and strong and capable of winning their fair share of 50/50s. Then you don't so much need creativity in midfield, but energy and the ability to kick opponents when out of possession without getting sent off every week. You need reliable delivery too for set pieces.
If I was Adkins, I'd look at what I have got and what I am likely to get and if we can't achieve what we need to using plan A I'd investigate whether a plan B could be more easily achieved.
The problems arise when we are pressed and there are no simple out balls. Easier to lump it long than dribble past MK pressers. So lump it long is Plan B rather than Plan A.
After we had a few misplaced passes and made that stupid mistake for their goal you could see the confidence drain out of them. No one was showing for the short ball, no one wanted it in tight spaces. By the middle of the second half Stockley was chasing ten yards to even challenge the center back for a 30/70 header without a Charlton player within 20 yards of him.
That's not tactics, that's a lack of confidence in either yourself or your team mates.
Unless you think the half time team talk was "Chrissy Gunter you smash it 50 yards with your wrong foot, Jayden you run after it and the rest of you stand and watch"?
Exactly the same thing happened in Parkinson's relegation season we often played some good stuff for 20 minutes then conceded a soft goal and started banging it in the general direction of Deon Burton.
We seem to have gone from one extreme to the other, when you consider that in the first half of last season we had Williams, Shinnie and Maddison, all technically good but less athletic players plus the now absent JFC and Gilbey.
It's lower down the football pyramid but I'm fortunate and geeky enough to watch A licence coaches doing training drills and watch matches and stand in ear shot of good young coaches. (late 20's and early 30's) The opportunity has arisen because of my son's work with a football foundation and a football team in part time football.
Every thing is focused on an attacking point of view in the central striker having support and not being isolated, whether its an attacking midfielder, his partner up front who can play alongside or drift to the flank as well as the two attacking full backs who are used instead of wingers which many of the young coaches prefer in the manner of Luke Shaw or Chilwell. When the attacking full back is ready to cross in an advanced position the support in and around the box is impressive and this is where we are struggling at Cafc.
The fact that the central striker played a dozen games for Millwall and the LB played a few games for Palace helps they are better than most of their opposition at this level because they are in their 20's and enjoy their football all be it at part time level. Also an 18 year old who was released by Cafc at 15 because "he was too small" after 5 years of Coaching.
He is now 5ft 9" and has two good feet so is difficult to mark. He is such a fit lad that he is another option around the box.
But the point that is constantly made by the highly qualified coaches is in transition you attack quickly and accurately but everyone knows their role including the two defensive midfielders who cover either attacking full backs and help the CB's keep security if the move breaks down for a counter attack.
The work at Sparrows lane is so important on the training pitch but unfortunately maybe we just aren't capable of supporting Stockley with the unavailability of Gilbey from midfield and the Ronnie Schwartz saga, who if he doesn't make the bench against Wigan we have a major problem which should be sorted out ASAP by a professional football club.
We now know that targets we were interested in, went to Wigan because of the money so at least we know. I like transparency so appreciate that information.
What I will say is:
If Albie is going to play he should be playing deeper. Much deeper. At the risk of mixing up positions from different codes of football, he's not a centre-half-forward, he should be playing a quarterback-type role across half-back where he has the whole pitch in front of him and can pick out a damaging pass. That's where I've seen him play his best football for us in the past, not playing just behind the main front man.
The bonus from this will be that the further away from the oppo penalty box Albie is, the less chance he has of blazing a shot into row Z ... of the LCC Stand. His shooting at goal is, at best, woeful and is tantamount to just giving the ball back to the other mob and running a few seconds off the clock.
There needs to be more movement in and around the Headmaster. If we're going to play balls to his head, either long balls from the back or crosses from the wings, we need someone there to pick up the crumbs if the ball gets back to the deck, whether that's playing a small forward alongside Jayden or having a bit of run from midfield to pick up the loose ball. Too often the skipper is ploughing a lone furrow up top, having to win the header and then his own knock-down. We're not going to win too many games playing like that.
I fear that we may get our arse handed to us on a plate tomorrow and we can't even rely on a solid rear-guard action to save us. In fact I'd rather Nads named Big Bad Bustling Bob Bolder between the sticks and Mark Bowen at No 3 - both will be at the ground (Bowen can still be part of the Charlton TV coverage and run down to the pitch in time for kick off. With Washy's back giving him grief we'd have a replacement if we were awarded a penalty) and even at their advanced ages would probably be better than the present incumbents.
CAFC 0 Wigan 3