Typically our wingers aren't playing as traditional 4-4-2 wingers though. They are modern wing forwards, spending a lot of the game playing as far up the pitch as a centre forward. With the tactics we play they are far less likely, and less required to contribute for those defensive stats! It's good that they do contribute a little defensively but it's not that much of a concern really because Appleton is unlikely to want them to be near the top of defensive stats as it will mean they aren't near the top of offensive stats. Our midfielders and less attacking full backs are expected to take up their slack. And also, winger in "bottling" challenges shock horror! I really couldn't care less about a winger "bottling" a challenge. The same people who complain about that are the first to jump on them for silly bookings or red cards for bad challenges!
We are also reliant on our attacking players scoring the goals. We don't get so many from the defence and even the midfield.
Typically our wingers aren't playing as traditional 4-4-2 wingers though. They are modern wing forwards, spending a lot of the game playing as far up the pitch as a centre forward. With the tactics we play they are far less likely, and less required to contribute for those defensive stats! It's good that they do contribute a little defensively but it's not that much of a concern really because Appleton is unlikely to want them to be near the top of defensive stats as it will mean they aren't near the top of offensive stats.
It's an interesting theory but it's important to remember that we are talking about what our wingers are contributing without the ball, and what you're talking about is what they're being asked to do in possession. There are players in the statistics who disprove the idea that you can't contribute defensively and be at the top of the offensive stats. As to the 'in-possession' question: Someone with heat map data would be able to prove/disprove whether our wingers are in fact being asked to do a role vastly different to other wingers in the top 12 (outside the scope of this).
I've read a few posts saying that our wingers don't offer enough defensively and that this also contributes to the amount of goals we concede.
I wondered how our wingers compared to others in the league so I ran the numbers on players in the top 12 using data from FotMob.
CBT & Tyreece are bottom or bottom three across all defensive metrics (tackles, clearances, headed clearances and interceptions) except blocked shots, where they are both in the top three. (Although clearly, this does not improve their average by much).
Most notable for me is the Tackles table.
Kwame Poku has 6 goals and 6 assists to CBT's 5+5, yet he has also contributed 21 tackles to CBT's 4.
Regardless, both our wingers appear to be underperforming the league's defensive average by some distance.
I also note Aaron Collins has been touted as a possible replacement to CBT, but finds himself similarly lacking.
Poku is a class player, an ideal player in this league as a wide player, especially a wingback.
Good research mate, do you mind sharing the top 10 wingers stats
Not sure if this is what you meant @Braziliance but here are the core stats.
I've read a few posts saying that our wingers don't offer enough defensively and that this also contributes to the amount of goals we concede.
I wondered how our wingers compared to others in the league so I ran the numbers on players in the top 12 using data from FotMob.
CBT & Tyreece are bottom or bottom three across all defensive metrics (tackles, clearances, headed clearances and interceptions) except blocked shots, where they are both in the top three. (Although clearly, this does not improve their average by much).
Most notable for me is the Tackles table.
Kwame Poku has 6 goals and 6 assists to CBT's 5+5, yet he has also contributed 21 tackles to CBT's 4.
Regardless, both our wingers appear to be underperforming the league's defensive average by some distance.
I also note Aaron Collins has been touted as a possible replacement to CBT, but finds himself similarly lacking.
Poku is a class player, an ideal player in this league as a wide player, especially a wingback.
Good research mate, do you mind sharing the top 10 wingers stats
Not sure if this is what you meant @Braziliance but here are the core stats.
I do have tables for each metric as well.
Cheers mate, good stuff.
Seems like Lasse Sorensen appears to be a hell of a wing back this season, good defensive stats and has some goal contributions.
CJ Hamilton who was a previous link, also seems to be quite all action. Of course not as many goal contributions as other wingers.
Poku definitely leading the way, what a versatile player. Looks like Peterborough have done it again. They must have the best recruitment team in this league.
Saw Poku as a very raw 18yr old at Worthing in the Isthmian Premier , not surprised he's gone onto to be a success in the EFL. Technically fantastic but also not afraid to do the other side of the game
Typically our wingers aren't playing as traditional 4-4-2 wingers though. They are modern wing forwards, spending a lot of the game playing as far up the pitch as a centre forward. With the tactics we play they are far less likely, and less required to contribute for those defensive stats! It's good that they do contribute a little defensively but it's not that much of a concern really because Appleton is unlikely to want them to be near the top of defensive stats as it will mean they aren't near the top of offensive stats.
It's an interesting theory but it's important to remember that we are talking about what our wingers are contributing without the ball, and what you're talking about is what they're being asked to do in possession. There are players in the statistics who disprove the idea that you can't contribute defensively and be at the top of the offensive stats. As to the 'in-possession' question: Someone with heat map data would be able to prove/disprove whether our wingers are fact being asked to do a role vastly different to other wingers in the top 12 (outside the scope of this).
Thats true. It's very difficult to analyse because a player can also contribute well defensively without making tackles. By getting goal side and combining with teammates to force the other team into tight spots. Defending as a team. Claus Jensen was good at this, made about 10 tackles in his Charlton career but worked hard and wasnt often caught the wrong side of the ball so contributed well to the team defensively.
Typically our wingers aren't playing as traditional 4-4-2 wingers though. They are modern wing forwards, spending a lot of the game playing as far up the pitch as a centre forward. With the tactics we play they are far less likely, and less required to contribute for those defensive stats! It's good that they do contribute a little defensively but it's not that much of a concern really because Appleton is unlikely to want them to be near the top of defensive stats as it will mean they aren't near the top of offensive stats.
It's an interesting theory but it's important to remember that we are talking about what our wingers are contributing without the ball, and what you're talking about is what they're being asked to do in possession. There are players in the statistics who disprove the idea that you can't contribute defensively and be at the top of the offensive stats. As to the 'in-possession' question: Someone with heat map data would be able to prove/disprove whether our wingers are fact being asked to do a role vastly different to other wingers in the top 12 (outside the scope of this).
Thats true. It's very difficult to analyse because a player can also contribute well defensively without making tackles. By getting goal side and combining with teammates to force the other team into tight spots. Defending as a team. Claus Jensen was good at this, made about 10 tackles in his Charlton career but worked hard and wasnt often caught the wrong side of the ball so contributed well to the team defensively.
There was one opposition attack where May tracked back really well in the game at Cray.
I don't think Cory has the engine to charge up and down the wing for 90 minutes.
The argument that our wingers shouldn’t be making tackles etc is complete rubbish. You might not want them making them in our half but they should be winning the ball back in our attacking third. I haven’t checked the stats but it seems like we don’t turn the ball over enough in the opposition half which is a real shame with the pace at our disposal
The argument that our wingers shouldn’t be making tackles etc is complete rubbish. You might not want them making them in our half but they should be winning the ball back in our attacking third. I haven’t checked the stats but it seems like we don’t turn the ball over enough in the opposition half which is a real shame with the pace at our disposal
Who is suggesting they shouldn't make tackles? I'm not, I'm suggesting they shouldn't be judged to harshly on tackle stats.
Typically our wingers aren't playing as traditional 4-4-2 wingers though. They are modern wing forwards, spending a lot of the game playing as far up the pitch as a centre forward. With the tactics we play they are far less likely, and less required to contribute for those defensive stats! It's good that they do contribute a little defensively but it's not that much of a concern really because Appleton is unlikely to want them to be near the top of defensive stats as it will mean they aren't near the top of offensive stats.
It's an interesting theory but it's important to remember that we are talking about what our wingers are contributing without the ball, and what you're talking about is what they're being asked to do in possession. There are players in the statistics who disprove the idea that you can't contribute defensively and be at the top of the offensive stats. As to the 'in-possession' question: Someone with heat map data would be able to prove/disprove whether our wingers are fact being asked to do a role vastly different to other wingers in the top 12 (outside the scope of this).
Thats true. It's very difficult to analyse because a player can also contribute well defensively without making tackles. By getting goal side and combining with teammates to force the other team into tight spots. Defending as a team. Claus Jensen was good at this, made about 10 tackles in his Charlton career but worked hard and wasnt often caught the wrong side of the ball so contributed well to the team defensively.
There was one opposition attack where May tracked back really well in the game at Cray.
I don't think Cory has the engine to charge up and down the wing for 90 minutes.
CBT might not track back as well as Alfie does sometimes, but Alfie hasn't got the top speed to regularly attack a defender, fly past them and have a chance at goal or cross the ball. But thats ok as Alfie does a lot of things much better. We can't always bemoan that players don't have strengths of other players. They are all a bit different.
Are we a 3rd of the way through the season? It's hard to argue against Cory being in our top 5 performers so far. I'm pretty happy with that.
For me would be the first serious massive tick in the favour of our new owners/decision makers, as he won't be cheap to retain with Championship clubs sniffing around.
Fingers crossed it is true, as I remember when we were beating Championship clubs to signings in the CP summer rebuild which showed it can be done with the right project and financial backing.
I use the "whoscored" web site for some of the stats and have to say that their marks for each player are a little suspect IMHO
I believe every player starts the game on a 6.0 and it goes up or down as the game goes on, a lot of data goes into it.
It's never going to be a true reflection, but if you ask any Charlton fan who our best 3 players are, most will say; CBT, May, Dobson or at least have 1 or 2. CBT current sits 10th, May 13th and Dobson 23rd in the whole league. Pretty fair representation of our players and where they stand in the league I'd say mate.
I use the "whoscored" web site for some of the stats and have to say that their marks for each player are a little suspect IMHO
I believe every player starts the game on a 6.0 and it goes up or down as the game goes on, a lot of data goes into it.
It's never going to be a true reflection, but if you ask any Charlton fan who our best 3 players are, most will say; CBT, May, Dobson or at least have 1 or 2. CBT current sits 10th, May 13th and Dobson 23rd in the whole league. Pretty fair representation of our players and where they stand in the league I'd say mate.
It is biased towards players that are good for certain stats. Defenders with high volume numbers because their teams defend a lot will come out on top of better teams defenders just because they are doing more defending. Their stats aren’t quite well rounded enough to pick up all types of players well in my opinion. It’s an ok rank though but definitely has its flaws
I suspect that Insta highlights reel he posted is more about reminding potential suitors how good he can be. It’s an impressive video. All types of goals, pace, assists. I don’t believe he posted that because he happened to be wearing a CAFC kit and loves the club.
I suspect that Insta highlights reel he posted is more about reminding potential suitors how good he can be. It’s an impressive video. All types of goals, pace, assists. I don’t believe he posted that because he happened to be wearing a CAFC kit and loves the club.
Would love it if he signed a new deal.
someone at the club must've put it together for him
I like CBT as a player but if we can get money for him I would take it, as good as he is in bursts, for me there are just to many frustrating moments with him. He either doesn't look up or takes a bad touch far to often for me.
I like CBT as a player but if we can get money for him I would take it, as good as he is in bursts, for me there are just to many frustrating moments with him. He either doesn't look up or takes a bad touch far too often for me.
We won’t get a better winger at this level though. He’ll be a huge loss. Despite his frustrating moments, we will massively miss his attacking play and goals
I like CBT as a player but if we can get money for him I would take it, as good as he is in bursts, for me there are just to many frustrating moments with him. He either doesn't look up or takes a bad touch far to often for me.
If he was much more consistent than he is right now as a winger, he'd be playing in the upper half of the Championship or even lower Prem.
No winger is doing to be a solid 7 out of 10 every match, if they were they probably won't be very good wingers. You have to accept that one game in 5 he'll put in a 4 or 5 /10 performance, because 2 of the other 5 he'll be almost unplayable and be getting 8s and 9s
He’s having a great season and producing great numbers but…he should have double the amount of goals and assist he actually has.
We should be wondering how much we’re going to get and how far up the championship he’ll be going…but we’re not, partly because his decision making is dreadful!! Since his arrival, how many of his goals / assists have been against the top opposition in the division? He's been one of the best performers in a mediocre performing team, against mostly mediocre opposition.
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There are players in the statistics who disprove the idea that you can't contribute defensively and be at the top of the offensive stats.
As to the 'in-possession' question: Someone with heat map data would be able to prove/disprove whether our wingers are in fact being asked to do a role vastly different to other wingers in the top 12 (outside the scope of this).
I do have tables for each metric as well.
Seems like Lasse Sorensen appears to be a hell of a wing back this season, good defensive stats and has some goal contributions.
CJ Hamilton who was a previous link, also seems to be quite all action. Of course not as many goal contributions as other wingers.
Poku definitely leading the way, what a versatile player. Looks like Peterborough have done it again. They must have the best recruitment team in this league.
Claus Jensen was good at this, made about 10 tackles in his Charlton career but worked hard and wasnt often caught the wrong side of the ball so contributed well to the team defensively.
I don't think Cory has the engine to charge up and down the wing for 90 minutes.
CBT might not track back as well as Alfie does sometimes, but Alfie hasn't got the top speed to regularly attack a defender, fly past them and have a chance at goal or cross the ball. But thats ok as Alfie does a lot of things much better. We can't always bemoan that players don't have strengths of other players. They are all a bit different.
Are we a 3rd of the way through the season? It's hard to argue against Cory being in our top 5 performers so far. I'm pretty happy with that.
Fingers crossed it is true, as I remember when we were beating Championship clubs to signings in the CP summer rebuild which showed it can be done with the right project and financial backing.
It's never going to be a true reflection, but if you ask any Charlton fan who our best 3 players are, most will say; CBT, May, Dobson or at least have 1 or 2. CBT current sits 10th, May 13th and Dobson 23rd in the whole league. Pretty fair representation of our players and where they stand in the league I'd say mate.
I don’t believe he posted that because he happened to be wearing a CAFC kit and loves the club.
we will not get a suitable replacement for him at this level with number of goals and assists he has
No winger is doing to be a solid 7 out of 10 every match, if they were they probably won't be very good wingers. You have to accept that one game in 5 he'll put in a 4 or 5 /10 performance, because 2 of the other 5 he'll be almost unplayable and be getting 8s and 9s
Some people are never happy.
Since his arrival, how many of his goals / assists have been against the top opposition in the division?
He's been one of the best performers in a mediocre performing team, against mostly mediocre opposition.
The devil is in the detail!