You can’t make an omelette without breaking an egg. The point about protests is that it should be noticed.
I applaud the protesters on this as they are right about the climate change and the effects not having good insulation has on it.
Trouble is this ignores the pillars of the establishment eg elections, parliament, the government, the law etc etc. What if I had a cause that I totally believed in and decided that the way to pursue it would be to tamper with the pitch at the Valley for every home game, making it unplayable and inconveniencing 15k Charlton supporters to make my point? Who is to say that your/their cause is more important or deserving than mine? Presumably that falls to the establishment ie parliament, the government, the law etc. See the problem? Anarchy isn't the answer.
Using your logic no one should express an opinion or take an action on anything.
We live in a democracy.
The proletariat get to express their opinion on a regularly agreed basis, free from any pressure from the thought police or intimidation, in the way they chose to vote, both locally and nationally.
Why is putting their time, effort and (quite obvious) wealth these protesters seem to have in the most relevant political party that supports their cause, not acceptable to them? The UK has one Green MP.
Whilst in many ways I could agree with the thrust of your argument, the electoral process in this country mitigates against true democracy. At the last general election the Conservative party got just over sixteen times as many votes as the Green Party. The Conservatives got three hundred and sixty four times as many seats as the Green party.
Having an electoral system that deliberately shuts out non conformist views encourages direct action.
Just for clarity as some people seem confused by the objectives of the protesters:
WE DEMAND
1
That the UK government immediately promises to fully fund and take responsibility for the insulation of all social housing in Britain by 2025;
2
That the UK government immediately promises to produce within four months a legally binding national plan to fully fund and take responsibility for the full low-energy and low-carbon whole-house retrofit , with no externalised costs, of all homes in Britain by 2030 as part of a just transition to full decarbonisation of all parts of society and the economy.
Ah so they want insulation done in "social housing"
So all the job dodging, benefit claiming protesters yesterday can get their council gaff all warm and toasty for free.
Can we establish whether the protestors are middle class hippie drop-outs or scumbags on dole? I can't really tell from this thread, may be they're both?
(The police's hands' off reaction make it clear even if not everyone here can see it)
I'll profile them for you if you want -
- Retired teachers, reliving their militant student days, but because they've never lived in the real world (school - Uni - back to school again), they don't realise that quite a lot if other people don't get paid if they're late / don't turn up for work and can even lose their job over it.
- She does reiki and yoga.
- He's started a little plot in the garden, but because that's something else he knows f*** all about, all the produce has gone or died by mid May, so they're back to buying bio from their local Waitrose.
- They've got a Buddha stature in the corner of the garden. They tell everyone it's carved in special stone, but it's cast in not-so- eco concrete and they got it from Whelans down Sheerness for a fiver.
- Dream catchers in the garden.
- Gaff stinks of joss sticks
- Jeremy Vine blaring out every morning.
- They've got a holiday home in France or Italy.
- They inherited shed loads from the sale of their parents property in Lewes and look for the best schemes that give the best returns when investing, even though their anti Capitalists.
- They all definitely go Glastonbury.
I will be using this as my "wanker barometer" from now on.
Just for clarity as some people seem confused by the objectives of the protesters:
WE DEMAND
1
That the UK government immediately promises to fully fund and take responsibility for the insulation of all social housing in Britain by 2025;
2
That the UK government immediately promises to produce within four months a legally binding national plan to fully fund and take responsibility for the full low-energy and low-carbon whole-house retrofit , with no externalised costs, of all homes in Britain by 2030 as part of a just transition to full decarbonisation of all parts of society and the economy.
Ah so they want insulation done in "social housing"
So all the job dodging, benefit claiming protesters yesterday can get their council gaff all warm and toasty for free.
Can we establish whether the protestors are middle class hippie drop-outs or scumbags on dole? I can't really tell from this thread, may be they're both?
(The police's hands' off reaction make it clear even if not everyone here can see it)
I'll profile them for you if you want -
- Retired teachers, reliving their militant student days, but because they've never lived in the real world (school - Uni - back to school again), they don't realise that quite a lot if other people don't get paid if they're late / don't turn up for work and can even lose their job over it.
- She does reiki and yoga.
- He's started a little plot in the garden, but because that's something else he knows f*** all about, all the produce has gone or died by mid May, so they're back to buying bio from their local Waitrose.
- They've got a Buddha stature in the corner of the garden. They tell everyone it's carved in special stone, but it's cast in not-so- eco concrete and they got it from Whelans down Sheerness for a fiver.
- Dream catchers in the garden.
- Gaff stinks of joss sticks
- Jeremy Vine blaring out every morning.
- They've got a holiday home in France or Italy.
- They inherited shed loads from the sale of their parents property in Lewes and look for the best schemes that give the best returns when investing, even though their anti Capitalists.
- They all definitely go Glastonbury.
I will be using this as my "wanker barometer" from now on.
Just for clarity as some people seem confused by the objectives of the protesters:
WE DEMAND
1
That the UK government immediately promises to fully fund and take responsibility for the insulation of all social housing in Britain by 2025;
2
That the UK government immediately promises to produce within four months a legally binding national plan to fully fund and take responsibility for the full low-energy and low-carbon whole-house retrofit , with no externalised costs, of all homes in Britain by 2030 as part of a just transition to full decarbonisation of all parts of society and the economy.
Ah so they want insulation done in "social housing"
So all the job dodging, benefit claiming protesters yesterday can get their council gaff all warm and toasty for free.
Can we establish whether the protestors are middle class hippie drop-outs or scumbags on dole? I can't really tell from this thread, may be they're both?
(The police's hands' off reaction make it clear even if not everyone here can see it)
I'll profile them for you if you want -
- Retired teachers, reliving their militant student days, but because they've never lived in the real world (school - Uni - back to school again), they don't realise that quite a lot if other people don't get paid if they're late / don't turn up for work and can even lose their job over it.
- She does reiki and yoga.
- He's started a little plot in the garden, but because that's something else he knows f*** all about, all the produce has gone or died by mid May, so they're back to buying bio from their local Waitrose.
- They've got a Buddha stature in the corner of the garden. They tell everyone it's carved in special stone, but it's cast in not-so- eco concrete and they got it from Whelans down Sheerness for a fiver.
- Dream catchers in the garden.
- Gaff stinks of joss sticks
- Jeremy Vine blaring out every morning.
- They've got a holiday home in France or Italy.
- They inherited shed loads from the sale of their parents property in Lewes and look for the best schemes that give the best returns when investing, even though their anti Capitalists.
- They all definitely go Glastonbury.
I will be using this as my "wanker barometer" from now on.
Terrifyingly, I tick 2 of those boxes.
None of those for me - not sure what that makes me.
Just for clarity as some people seem confused by the objectives of the protesters:
WE DEMAND
1
That the UK government immediately promises to fully fund and take responsibility for the insulation of all social housing in Britain by 2025;
2
That the UK government immediately promises to produce within four months a legally binding national plan to fully fund and take responsibility for the full low-energy and low-carbon whole-house retrofit , with no externalised costs, of all homes in Britain by 2030 as part of a just transition to full decarbonisation of all parts of society and the economy.
Ah so they want insulation done in "social housing"
So all the job dodging, benefit claiming protesters yesterday can get their council gaff all warm and toasty for free.
Can we establish whether the protestors are middle class hippie drop-outs or scumbags on dole? I can't really tell from this thread, may be they're both?
(The police's hands' off reaction make it clear even if not everyone here can see it)
I'll profile them for you if you want -
- Retired teachers, reliving their militant student days, but because they've never lived in the real world (school - Uni - back to school again), they don't realise that quite a lot if other people don't get paid if they're late / don't turn up for work and can even lose their job over it.
- She does reiki and yoga.
- He's started a little plot in the garden, but because that's something else he knows f*** all about, all the produce has gone or died by mid May, so they're back to buying bio from their local Waitrose.
- They've got a Buddha stature in the corner of the garden. They tell everyone it's carved in special stone, but it's cast in not-so- eco concrete and they got it from Whelans down Sheerness for a fiver.
- Dream catchers in the garden.
- Gaff stinks of joss sticks
- Jeremy Vine blaring out every morning.
- They've got a holiday home in France or Italy.
- They inherited shed loads from the sale of their parents property in Lewes and look for the best schemes that give the best returns when investing, even though their anti Capitalists.
- They all definitely go Glastonbury.
I will be using this as my "wanker barometer" from now on.
Just for clarity as some people seem confused by the objectives of the protesters:
WE DEMAND
1
That the UK government immediately promises to fully fund and take responsibility for the insulation of all social housing in Britain by 2025;
2
That the UK government immediately promises to produce within four months a legally binding national plan to fully fund and take responsibility for the full low-energy and low-carbon whole-house retrofit , with no externalised costs, of all homes in Britain by 2030 as part of a just transition to full decarbonisation of all parts of society and the economy.
Ah so they want insulation done in "social housing"
So all the job dodging, benefit claiming protesters yesterday can get their council gaff all warm and toasty for free.
Can we establish whether the protestors are middle class hippie drop-outs or scumbags on dole? I can't really tell from this thread, may be they're both?
(The police's hands' off reaction make it clear even if not everyone here can see it)
I'll profile them for you if you want -
- Retired teachers, reliving their militant student days, but because they've never lived in the real world (school - Uni - back to school again), they don't realise that quite a lot if other people don't get paid if they're late / don't turn up for work and can even lose their job over it.
- She does reiki and yoga.
- He's started a little plot in the garden, but because that's something else he knows f*** all about, all the produce has gone or died by mid May, so they're back to buying bio from their local Waitrose.
- They've got a Buddha stature in the corner of the garden. They tell everyone it's carved in special stone, but it's cast in not-so- eco concrete and they got it from Whelans down Sheerness for a fiver.
- Dream catchers in the garden.
- Gaff stinks of joss sticks
- Jeremy Vine blaring out every morning.
- They've got a holiday home in France or Italy.
- They inherited shed loads from the sale of their parents property in Lewes and look for the best schemes that give the best returns when investing, even though their anti Capitalists.
- They all definitely go Glastonbury.
I will be using this as my "wanker barometer" from now on.
Terrifyingly, I tick 2 of those boxes.
A place in France and Glasto?
Place in France, too ashamed to admit the other.
Oh no, not Jeremy Vine.
Nearly as bad as following James O'brien on Twitter
Onto the protestors, these people will be on the right side of history, but it will be in spite of their actions, not because of them.
The problem will always be that as we agree with these people, they will just go further and further, because these people need a cause, whatever it is. If the government agreed to their demands of 2025, they would wait a few months, and then demand it is moved forward to 2023.
And for every person saying "no one cares about violence if it is against the right people" (of which to the best of my understanding there has not been any actual violence, just hyperbole) I would say that "no one cares about disruption as long as it is by the right people" (and there has been plenty of that, and plenty of people condoning it). There are plenty of groups of people who are less "right on" than this lot that could be watching and learning from this.
I think the main thing about it is that there is no real "suffering" for the people protesting.
Imagine they they do all have jobs, the majority of them are on annual leave, the people in their cars, are not.
"But the world is facing an emergency" is something the vast majority of the people in the cars would agree with... The complete lack of self awareness of these people is beyond belief, but entirely predictable. No doubt 99% of their views and opinions are taken from an echo chamber, as is the case of the vast majority of "activists," a parallel I would apply to some much more distasteful groups as well.
I would like to see all protestors, once arrested, put on a bus to the Scottish Highlands and let out there. It will add to the amount of time until they can be back out disrupting, and actually cause them a proper inconvenience, rather than just being processed for a few hours on their day off.
Just for clarity as some people seem confused by the objectives of the protesters:
WE DEMAND
1
That the UK government immediately promises to fully fund and take responsibility for the insulation of all social housing in Britain by 2025;
2
That the UK government immediately promises to produce within four months a legally binding national plan to fully fund and take responsibility for the full low-energy and low-carbon whole-house retrofit , with no externalised costs, of all homes in Britain by 2030 as part of a just transition to full decarbonisation of all parts of society and the economy.
Ah so they want insulation done in "social housing"
So all the job dodging, benefit claiming protesters yesterday can get their council gaff all warm and toasty for free.
Can we establish whether the protestors are middle class hippie drop-outs or scumbags on dole? I can't really tell from this thread, may be they're both?
(The police's hands' off reaction make it clear even if not everyone here can see it)
I'll profile them for you if you want -
- Retired teachers, reliving their militant student days, but because they've never lived in the real world (school - Uni - back to school again), they don't realise that quite a lot if other people don't get paid if they're late / don't turn up for work and can even lose their job over it.
- She does reiki and yoga.
- He's started a little plot in the garden, but because that's something else he knows f*** all about, all the produce has gone or died by mid May, so they're back to buying bio from their local Waitrose.
- They've got a Buddha stature in the corner of the garden. They tell everyone it's carved in special stone, but it's cast in not-so- eco concrete and they got it from Whelans down Sheerness for a fiver.
- Dream catchers in the garden.
- Gaff stinks of joss sticks
- Jeremy Vine blaring out every morning.
- They've got a holiday home in France or Italy.
- They inherited shed loads from the sale of their parents property in Lewes and look for the best schemes that give the best returns when investing, even though their anti Capitalists.
- They all definitely go Glastonbury.
I will be using this as my "wanker barometer" from now on.
Terrifyingly, I tick 2 of those boxes.
A place in France and Glasto?
Place in France, too ashamed to admit the other.
Oh no, not Jeremy Vine.
Nearly as bad as following James O'brien on Twitter
I listen to him on LBC every day but I don't go on Twitter.
It's really important to understand the viewpoints of those that you disagree with, but I really do feel like him and the people that "follow" him have a distinct lack of critical thinking and, much like many of the people they despise, only want to hear things they agree with.
He's just a left wing Piers Morgan, saying a load of shite to be provocative, but I bet if you sat down with him in your dining room, he wouldn't come up with half of that bollocks, it's a living, and all the money these days is in the culture wars.
Just for clarity as some people seem confused by the objectives of the protesters:
WE DEMAND
1
That the UK government immediately promises to fully fund and take responsibility for the insulation of all social housing in Britain by 2025;
2
That the UK government immediately promises to produce within four months a legally binding national plan to fully fund and take responsibility for the full low-energy and low-carbon whole-house retrofit , with no externalised costs, of all homes in Britain by 2030 as part of a just transition to full decarbonisation of all parts of society and the economy.
Ah so they want insulation done in "social housing"
So all the job dodging, benefit claiming protesters yesterday can get their council gaff all warm and toasty for free.
Can we establish whether the protestors are middle class hippie drop-outs or scumbags on dole? I can't really tell from this thread, may be they're both?
(The police's hands' off reaction make it clear even if not everyone here can see it)
I'll profile them for you if you want -
- Retired teachers, reliving their militant student days, but because they've never lived in the real world (school - Uni - back to school again), they don't realise that quite a lot if other people don't get paid if they're late / don't turn up for work and can even lose their job over it.
- She does reiki and yoga.
- He's started a little plot in the garden, but because that's something else he knows f*** all about, all the produce has gone or died by mid May, so they're back to buying bio from their local Waitrose.
- They've got a Buddha stature in the corner of the garden. They tell everyone it's carved in special stone, but it's cast in not-so- eco concrete and they got it from Whelans down Sheerness for a fiver.
- Dream catchers in the garden.
- Gaff stinks of joss sticks
- Jeremy Vine blaring out every morning.
- They've got a holiday home in France or Italy.
- They inherited shed loads from the sale of their parents property in Lewes and look for the best schemes that give the best returns when investing, even though their anti Capitalists.
- They all definitely go Glastonbury.
I will be using this as my "wanker barometer" from now on.
Terrifyingly, I tick 2 of those boxes.
A place in France and Glasto?
Place in France, too ashamed to admit the other.
Oh no, not Jeremy Vine.
Nearly as bad as following James O'brien on Twitter
I listen to him on LBC every day but I don't go on Twitter.
It's really important to understand the viewpoints of those that you disagree with, but I really do feel like him and the people that "follow" him have a distinct lack of critical thinking and, much like many of the people they despise, only want to hear things they agree with.
He's just a left wing Piers Morgan, saying a load of shite to be provocative, but I bet if you sat down with him in your dining room, he wouldn't come up with half of that bollocks, it's a living, and all the money these days is in the culture wars.
Really? He used to spend most of his time slagging off Corbyn, and mentions voting Tory as many times as he’s voted Labour, doesn’t come across as very left wing to me.
Just for clarity as some people seem confused by the objectives of the protesters:
WE DEMAND
1
That the UK government immediately promises to fully fund and take responsibility for the insulation of all social housing in Britain by 2025;
2
That the UK government immediately promises to produce within four months a legally binding national plan to fully fund and take responsibility for the full low-energy and low-carbon whole-house retrofit , with no externalised costs, of all homes in Britain by 2030 as part of a just transition to full decarbonisation of all parts of society and the economy.
Ah so they want insulation done in "social housing"
So all the job dodging, benefit claiming protesters yesterday can get their council gaff all warm and toasty for free.
Can we establish whether the protestors are middle class hippie drop-outs or scumbags on dole? I can't really tell from this thread, may be they're both?
(The police's hands' off reaction make it clear even if not everyone here can see it)
I'll profile them for you if you want -
- Retired teachers, reliving their militant student days, but because they've never lived in the real world (school - Uni - back to school again), they don't realise that quite a lot if other people don't get paid if they're late / don't turn up for work and can even lose their job over it.
- She does reiki and yoga.
- He's started a little plot in the garden, but because that's something else he knows f*** all about, all the produce has gone or died by mid May, so they're back to buying bio from their local Waitrose.
- They've got a Buddha stature in the corner of the garden. They tell everyone it's carved in special stone, but it's cast in not-so- eco concrete and they got it from Whelans down Sheerness for a fiver.
- Dream catchers in the garden.
- Gaff stinks of joss sticks
- Jeremy Vine blaring out every morning.
- They've got a holiday home in France or Italy.
- They inherited shed loads from the sale of their parents property in Lewes and look for the best schemes that give the best returns when investing, even though their anti Capitalists.
- They all definitely go Glastonbury.
I will be using this as my "wanker barometer" from now on.
Terrifyingly, I tick 2 of those boxes.
A place in France and Glasto?
Place in France, too ashamed to admit the other.
Oh no, not Jeremy Vine.
Nearly as bad as following James O'brien on Twitter
I listen to him on LBC every day but I don't go on Twitter.
It's really important to understand the viewpoints of those that you disagree with, but I really do feel like him and the people that "follow" him have a distinct lack of critical thinking and, much like many of the people they despise, only want to hear things they agree with.
He's just a left wing Piers Morgan, saying a load of shite to be provocative, but I bet if you sat down with him in your dining room, he wouldn't come up with half of that bollocks, it's a living, and all the money these days is in the culture wars.
Really? He used to spend most of his time slagging off Corbyn, and mentions voting Tory as many times as he’s voted Labour, doesn’t come across as very left wing to me.
voted for Johnson for London Mayor in 2008, would say he's a centrist dad and his politics is driven a lot by his Catholicism
He's a funny one James O'Brien. Some days I think he's the best thing since sliced bread and the voice of reason. Other days he's a bit of a tit.
I do buy into the fact that one can change their views and outlook over time and I am sure he has done as he's matured. But at the same time I remember the Frank Lampard call and am not a fan of how he doesn't engage in real debate with anyone that he can't bully/ talk over or cut off and do wonder if there is an element of the fact he has carved out a career niche as the compassionate, caring one and has gone all in in the same way Katie Hopkins developed the opposite persona for commercial reasons. Caricatures of their real personalities and views perhaps.
His messianic fan base on twitter are utterly obnoxious too.
A good bloke on the whole though and does talk a lot of sense most of the time even if it makes me feel uncomfortable when he points out certain things that make you question yourself.
I think tv and radio presenters take on the provocateur role to keep themselves current but in doing so, they obviously wind people up. I don't think there's a talk show host exists that everybody likes tbh
Just for clarity as some people seem confused by the objectives of the protesters:
WE DEMAND
1
That the UK government immediately promises to fully fund and take responsibility for the insulation of all social housing in Britain by 2025;
2
That the UK government immediately promises to produce within four months a legally binding national plan to fully fund and take responsibility for the full low-energy and low-carbon whole-house retrofit , with no externalised costs, of all homes in Britain by 2030 as part of a just transition to full decarbonisation of all parts of society and the economy.
Ah so they want insulation done in "social housing"
So all the job dodging, benefit claiming protesters yesterday can get their council gaff all warm and toasty for free.
Can we establish whether the protestors are middle class hippie drop-outs or scumbags on dole? I can't really tell from this thread, may be they're both?
(The police's hands' off reaction make it clear even if not everyone here can see it)
I'll profile them for you if you want -
- Retired teachers, reliving their militant student days, but because they've never lived in the real world (school - Uni - back to school again), they don't realise that quite a lot if other people don't get paid if they're late / don't turn up for work and can even lose their job over it.
- She does reiki and yoga.
- He's started a little plot in the garden, but because that's something else he knows f*** all about, all the produce has gone or died by mid May, so they're back to buying bio from their local Waitrose.
- They've got a Buddha stature in the corner of the garden. They tell everyone it's carved in special stone, but it's cast in not-so- eco concrete and they got it from Whelans down Sheerness for a fiver.
- Dream catchers in the garden.
- Gaff stinks of joss sticks
- Jeremy Vine blaring out every morning.
- They've got a holiday home in France or Italy.
- They inherited shed loads from the sale of their parents property in Lewes and look for the best schemes that give the best returns when investing, even though their anti Capitalists.
- They all definitely go Glastonbury.
I will be using this as my "wanker barometer" from now on.
Terrifyingly, I tick 2 of those boxes.
A place in France and Glasto?
Place in France, too ashamed to admit the other.
Oh no, not Jeremy Vine.
Nearly as bad as following James O'brien on Twitter
I listen to him on LBC every day but I don't go on Twitter.
It's really important to understand the viewpoints of those that you disagree with, but I really do feel like him and the people that "follow" him have a distinct lack of critical thinking and, much like many of the people they despise, only want to hear things they agree with.
He's just a left wing Piers Morgan, saying a load of shite to be provocative, but I bet if you sat down with him in your dining room, he wouldn't come up with half of that bollocks, it's a living, and all the money these days is in the culture wars.
Really? He used to spend most of his time slagging off Corbyn, and mentions voting Tory as many times as he’s voted Labour, doesn’t come across as very left wing to me.
Piers Morgan was slagging off the government over how they have handled COVID, does that make him left wing?
Slagging off Corbyn just means he has a functioning brain.
He's a funny one James O'Brien. Some days I think he's the best thing since sliced bread and the voice of reason. Other days he's a bit of a tit.
I do buy into the fact that one can change their views and outlook over time and I am sure he has done as he's matured. But at the same time I remember the Frank Lampard call and am not a fan of how he doesn't engage in real debate with anyone that he can't bully/ talk over or cut off and do wonder if there is an element of the fact he has carved out a career niche as the compassionate, caring one and has gone all in in the same way Katie Hopkins developed the opposite persona for commercial reasons. Caricatures of their real personalities and views perhaps.
His messianic fan base on twitter are utterly obnoxious too.
A good bloke on the whole though and does talk a lot of sense most of the time even if it makes me feel uncomfortable when he points out certain things that make you question yourself.
I really like him and enjoy listening to him and agree with everything you've said.
Pretending he is somehow above being a provocative twat like most radio presenters is foolish, they're all the same.
Having said that, he is the only person I've heard on that station who effectively cuts people off and talks over them.
You can’t make an omelette without breaking an egg. The point about protests is that it should be noticed.
I applaud the protesters on this as they are right about the climate change and the effects not having good insulation has on it.
Trouble is this ignores the pillars of the establishment eg elections, parliament, the government, the law etc etc. What if I had a cause that I totally believed in and decided that the way to pursue it would be to tamper with the pitch at the Valley for every home game, making it unplayable and inconveniencing 15k Charlton supporters to make my point? Who is to say that your/their cause is more important or deserving than mine? Presumably that falls to the establishment ie parliament, the government, the law etc. See the problem? Anarchy isn't the answer.
Using your logic no one should express an opinion or take an action on anything.
We live in a democracy.
The proletariat get to express their opinion on a regularly agreed basis, free from any pressure from the thought police or intimidation, in the way they chose to vote, both locally and nationally.
Why is putting their time, effort and (quite obvious) wealth these protesters seem to have in the most relevant political party that supports their cause, not acceptable to them? The UK has one Green MP.
Whilst in many ways I could agree with the thrust of your argument, the electoral process in this country mitigates against true democracy. At the last general election the Conservative party got just over sixteen times as many votes as the Green Party. The Conservatives got three hundred and sixty four times as many seats as the Green party.
Having an electoral system that deliberately shuts out non conformist views encourages direct action.
By that rationale UKIP would have been completely right to take "direct action" but no doubt people's views change at that point...
You either let all the attention seeking dicks ruin people's day, or none of them.
Just for clarity as some people seem confused by the objectives of the protesters:
WE DEMAND
1
That the UK government immediately promises to fully fund and take responsibility for the insulation of all social housing in Britain by 2025;
2
That the UK government immediately promises to produce within four months a legally binding national plan to fully fund and take responsibility for the full low-energy and low-carbon whole-house retrofit , with no externalised costs, of all homes in Britain by 2030 as part of a just transition to full decarbonisation of all parts of society and the economy.
Ah so they want insulation done in "social housing"
So all the job dodging, benefit claiming protesters yesterday can get their council gaff all warm and toasty for free.
Can we establish whether the protestors are middle class hippie drop-outs or scumbags on dole? I can't really tell from this thread, may be they're both?
(The police's hands' off reaction make it clear even if not everyone here can see it)
I'll profile them for you if you want -
- Retired teachers, reliving their militant student days, but because they've never lived in the real world (school - Uni - back to school again), they don't realise that quite a lot if other people don't get paid if they're late / don't turn up for work and can even lose their job over it.
- She does reiki and yoga.
- He's started a little plot in the garden, but because that's something else he knows f*** all about, all the produce has gone or died by mid May, so they're back to buying bio from their local Waitrose.
- They've got a Buddha stature in the corner of the garden. They tell everyone it's carved in special stone, but it's cast in not-so- eco concrete and they got it from Whelans down Sheerness for a fiver.
- Dream catchers in the garden.
- Gaff stinks of joss sticks
- Jeremy Vine blaring out every morning.
- They've got a holiday home in France or Italy.
- They inherited shed loads from the sale of their parents property in Lewes and look for the best schemes that give the best returns when investing, even though their anti Capitalists.
- They all definitely go Glastonbury.
I will be using this as my "wanker barometer" from now on.
Terrifyingly, I tick 2 of those boxes.
A place in France and Glasto?
Place in France, too ashamed to admit the other.
Oh no, not Jeremy Vine.
Nearly as bad as following James O'brien on Twitter
I listen to him on LBC every day but I don't go on Twitter.
It's really important to understand the viewpoints of those that you disagree with, but I really do feel like him and the people that "follow" him have a distinct lack of critical thinking and, much like many of the people they despise, only want to hear things they agree with.
He's just a left wing Piers Morgan, saying a load of shite to be provocative, but I bet if you sat down with him in your dining room, he wouldn't come up with half of that bollocks, it's a living, and all the money these days is in the culture wars.
Really? He used to spend most of his time slagging off Corbyn, and mentions voting Tory as many times as he’s voted Labour, doesn’t come across as very left wing to me.
Piers Morgan was slagging off the government over how they have handled COVID, does that make him left wing?
Slagging off Corbyn just means he has a functioning brain.
Just for clarity as some people seem confused by the objectives of the protesters:
WE DEMAND
1
That the UK government immediately promises to fully fund and take responsibility for the insulation of all social housing in Britain by 2025;
2
That the UK government immediately promises to produce within four months a legally binding national plan to fully fund and take responsibility for the full low-energy and low-carbon whole-house retrofit , with no externalised costs, of all homes in Britain by 2030 as part of a just transition to full decarbonisation of all parts of society and the economy.
Ah so they want insulation done in "social housing"
So all the job dodging, benefit claiming protesters yesterday can get their council gaff all warm and toasty for free.
Can we establish whether the protestors are middle class hippie drop-outs or scumbags on dole? I can't really tell from this thread, may be they're both?
(The police's hands' off reaction make it clear even if not everyone here can see it)
I'll profile them for you if you want -
- Retired teachers, reliving their militant student days, but because they've never lived in the real world (school - Uni - back to school again), they don't realise that quite a lot if other people don't get paid if they're late / don't turn up for work and can even lose their job over it.
- She does reiki and yoga.
- He's started a little plot in the garden, but because that's something else he knows f*** all about, all the produce has gone or died by mid May, so they're back to buying bio from their local Waitrose.
- They've got a Buddha stature in the corner of the garden. They tell everyone it's carved in special stone, but it's cast in not-so- eco concrete and they got it from Whelans down Sheerness for a fiver.
- Dream catchers in the garden.
- Gaff stinks of joss sticks
- Jeremy Vine blaring out every morning.
- They've got a holiday home in France or Italy.
- They inherited shed loads from the sale of their parents property in Lewes and look for the best schemes that give the best returns when investing, even though their anti Capitalists.
- They all definitely go Glastonbury.
I will be using this as my "wanker barometer" from now on.
Terrifyingly, I tick 2 of those boxes.
A place in France and Glasto?
Place in France, too ashamed to admit the other.
Oh no, not Jeremy Vine.
Nearly as bad as following James O'brien on Twitter
I listen to him on LBC every day but I don't go on Twitter.
It's really important to understand the viewpoints of those that you disagree with, but I really do feel like him and the people that "follow" him have a distinct lack of critical thinking and, much like many of the people they despise, only want to hear things they agree with.
He's just a left wing Piers Morgan, saying a load of shite to be provocative, but I bet if you sat down with him in your dining room, he wouldn't come up with half of that bollocks, it's a living, and all the money these days is in the culture wars.
Really? He used to spend most of his time slagging off Corbyn, and mentions voting Tory as many times as he’s voted Labour, doesn’t come across as very left wing to me.
Piers Morgan was slagging off the government over how they have handled COVID, does that make him left wing?
Slagging off Corbyn just means he has a functioning brain.
Okay so what makes him left wing?
The fact that for the past 5 years he will oppose literally anything the government does, unless it is a case of saying "I think they've got it right on this one!!!" Until 10 minutes later he has a call that by some miracle makes him realise he "was wrong"...
As well as consistent cases of "cognitive dissonance"
Maybe left wing is the wrong description, literally anti anything the government does would be more precise, painfully so.
But his livelihood depends on it, I might sound overly critical there but I really do like him, he was one of my heroes growing up for reasons I won't bother going into, but his routine is unbelievably predictable and transparent.
I've realised I've taken this thread off topic, sorry.
You can’t make an omelette without breaking an egg. The point about protests is that it should be noticed.
I applaud the protesters on this as they are right about the climate change and the effects not having good insulation has on it.
Trouble is this ignores the pillars of the establishment eg elections, parliament, the government, the law etc etc. What if I had a cause that I totally believed in and decided that the way to pursue it would be to tamper with the pitch at the Valley for every home game, making it unplayable and inconveniencing 15k Charlton supporters to make my point? Who is to say that your/their cause is more important or deserving than mine? Presumably that falls to the establishment ie parliament, the government, the law etc. See the problem? Anarchy isn't the answer.
Using your logic no one should express an opinion or take an action on anything.
We live in a democracy.
The proletariat get to express their opinion on a regularly agreed basis, free from any pressure from the thought police or intimidation, in the way they chose to vote, both locally and nationally.
Why is putting their time, effort and (quite obvious) wealth these protesters seem to have in the most relevant political party that supports their cause, not acceptable to them? The UK has one Green MP.
Whilst in many ways I could agree with the thrust of your argument, the electoral process in this country mitigates against true democracy. At the last general election the Conservative party got just over sixteen times as many votes as the Green Party. The Conservatives got three hundred and sixty four times as many seats as the Green party.
Having an electoral system that deliberately shuts out non conformist views encourages direct action.
By that rationale UKIP would have been completely right to take "direct action" but no doubt people's views change at that point...
You either let all the attention seeking dicks ruin people's day, or none of them.
I dislike UKIP and what they stand for but I would say they had as much right as anybody else to be as proportionately represented in Parliament as anybody else.
You are right in suggesting that environmental activists are trying to get our attention. It is a failure of our political process that it denies them the parliamentary representation that their level of support deserves.
No doubt you thought that people protesting in South Africa against apartheid were “attention seeking dicks”.
You can’t make an omelette without breaking an egg. The point about protests is that it should be noticed.
I applaud the protesters on this as they are right about the climate change and the effects not having good insulation has on it.
Trouble is this ignores the pillars of the establishment eg elections, parliament, the government, the law etc etc. What if I had a cause that I totally believed in and decided that the way to pursue it would be to tamper with the pitch at the Valley for every home game, making it unplayable and inconveniencing 15k Charlton supporters to make my point? Who is to say that your/their cause is more important or deserving than mine? Presumably that falls to the establishment ie parliament, the government, the law etc. See the problem? Anarchy isn't the answer.
Using your logic no one should express an opinion or take an action on anything.
We live in a democracy.
The proletariat get to express their opinion on a regularly agreed basis, free from any pressure from the thought police or intimidation, in the way they chose to vote, both locally and nationally.
Why is putting their time, effort and (quite obvious) wealth these protesters seem to have in the most relevant political party that supports their cause, not acceptable to them? The UK has one Green MP.
Whilst in many ways I could agree with the thrust of your argument, the electoral process in this country mitigates against true democracy. At the last general election the Conservative party got just over sixteen times as many votes as the Green Party. The Conservatives got three hundred and sixty four times as many seats as the Green party.
Having an electoral system that deliberately shuts out non conformist views encourages direct action.
By that rationale UKIP would have been completely right to take "direct action" but no doubt people's views change at that point...
You either let all the attention seeking dicks ruin people's day, or none of them.
I dislike UKIP and what they stand for but I would say they had as much right as anybody else to be as proportionately represented in Parliament as anybody else.
You are right in suggesting that environmental activists are trying to get our attention. It is a failure of our political process that it denies them the parliamentary representation that their level of support deserves.
No doubt you thought that people protesting in South Africa against apartheid were “attention seeking dicks”.
Absolutely, if there's one thing I quite simply can't stand it is the fight for racial equality.
I believe that is what my comrades call a "strawman."
Just for clarity as some people seem confused by the objectives of the protesters:
WE DEMAND
1
That the UK government immediately promises to fully fund and take responsibility for the insulation of all social housing in Britain by 2025;
2
That the UK government immediately promises to produce within four months a legally binding national plan to fully fund and take responsibility for the full low-energy and low-carbon whole-house retrofit , with no externalised costs, of all homes in Britain by 2030 as part of a just transition to full decarbonisation of all parts of society and the economy.
Ah so they want insulation done in "social housing"
So all the job dodging, benefit claiming protesters yesterday can get their council gaff all warm and toasty for free.
Can we establish whether the protestors are middle class hippie drop-outs or scumbags on dole? I can't really tell from this thread, may be they're both?
(The police's hands' off reaction make it clear even if not everyone here can see it)
I'll profile them for you if you want -
- Retired teachers, reliving their militant student days, but because they've never lived in the real world (school - Uni - back to school again), they don't realise that quite a lot if other people don't get paid if they're late / don't turn up for work and can even lose their job over it.
- She does reiki and yoga.
- He's started a little plot in the garden, but because that's something else he knows f*** all about, all the produce has gone or died by mid May, so they're back to buying bio from their local Waitrose.
- They've got a Buddha stature in the corner of the garden. They tell everyone it's carved in special stone, but it's cast in not-so- eco concrete and they got it from Whelans down Sheerness for a fiver.
- Dream catchers in the garden.
- Gaff stinks of joss sticks
- Jeremy Vine blaring out every morning.
- They've got a holiday home in France or Italy.
- They inherited shed loads from the sale of their parents property in Lewes and look for the best schemes that give the best returns when investing, even though their anti Capitalists.
- They all definitely go Glastonbury.
I will be using this as my "wanker barometer" from now on.
Terrifyingly, I tick 2 of those boxes.
A place in France and Glasto?
Place in France, too ashamed to admit the other.
Oh no, not Jeremy Vine.
Nearly as bad as following James O'brien on Twitter
I listen to him on LBC every day but I don't go on Twitter.
It's really important to understand the viewpoints of those that you disagree with, but I really do feel like him and the people that "follow" him have a distinct lack of critical thinking and, much like many of the people they despise, only want to hear things they agree with.
He's just a left wing Piers Morgan, saying a load of shite to be provocative, but I bet if you sat down with him in your dining room, he wouldn't come up with half of that bollocks, it's a living, and all the money these days is in the culture wars.
Really? He used to spend most of his time slagging off Corbyn, and mentions voting Tory as many times as he’s voted Labour, doesn’t come across as very left wing to me.
Piers Morgan was slagging off the government over how they have handled COVID, does that make him left wing?
Slagging off Corbyn just means he has a functioning brain.
Okay so what makes him left wing?
The fact that for the past 5 years he will oppose literally anything the government does, unless it is a case of saying "I think they've got it right on this one!!!" Until 10 minutes later he has a call that by some miracle makes him realise he "was wrong"...
As well as consistent cases of "cognitive dissonance"
Maybe left wing is the wrong description, literally anti anything the government does would be more precise, painfully so.
But his livelihood depends on it, I might sound overly critical there but I really do like him, he was one of my heroes growing up for reasons I won't bother going into, but his routine is unbelievably predictable and transparent.
I've realised I've taken this thread off topic, sorry.
You literally just said in the previous post Piers Morgan was slagging off the government does that make him left wing. Now someone else does it, they’re left wing.
I guess yeah he does slag off the government I agree to that extent, and I’m not having a pop just noticed these days everyone’s go-to is “left wing!” For anyone they disagree with, was gonna say I listen to him whilst working I don’t see anything left wing about him personally.
He’s certainly pretentious, but even he admits that. Anyway yeah back to the topic my bad 👍🏻
You can’t make an omelette without breaking an egg. The point about protests is that it should be noticed.
I applaud the protesters on this as they are right about the climate change and the effects not having good insulation has on it.
Trouble is this ignores the pillars of the establishment eg elections, parliament, the government, the law etc etc. What if I had a cause that I totally believed in and decided that the way to pursue it would be to tamper with the pitch at the Valley for every home game, making it unplayable and inconveniencing 15k Charlton supporters to make my point? Who is to say that your/their cause is more important or deserving than mine? Presumably that falls to the establishment ie parliament, the government, the law etc. See the problem? Anarchy isn't the answer.
Using your logic no one should express an opinion or take an action on anything.
We live in a democracy.
The proletariat get to express their opinion on a regularly agreed basis, free from any pressure from the thought police or intimidation, in the way they chose to vote, both locally and nationally.
Why is putting their time, effort and (quite obvious) wealth these protesters seem to have in the most relevant political party that supports their cause, not acceptable to them? The UK has one Green MP.
Whilst in many ways I could agree with the thrust of your argument, the electoral process in this country mitigates against true democracy. At the last general election the Conservative party got just over sixteen times as many votes as the Green Party. The Conservatives got three hundred and sixty four times as many seats as the Green party.
Having an electoral system that deliberately shuts out non conformist views encourages direct action.
By that rationale UKIP would have been completely right to take "direct action" but no doubt people's views change at that point...
You either let all the attention seeking dicks ruin people's day, or none of them.
I dislike UKIP and what they stand for but I would say they had as much right as anybody else to be as proportionately represented in Parliament as anybody else.
You are right in suggesting that environmental activists are trying to get our attention. It is a failure of our political process that it denies them the parliamentary representation that their level of support deserves.
No doubt you thought that people protesting in South Africa against apartheid were “attention seeking dicks”.
Absolutely, if there's one thing I quite simply can't stand it is the fight for racial equality.
I believe that is what my comrades call a "strawman."
Try harder
It is not a “ Strawman” at all. My rebuttal of your point of view is in my first paragraph and directly references your main point. My second paragraph is a reaffirmation of my original point which was, political representation in parliament for all should be proportional to their support at the ballot box.
The third paragraph, the one you highlighted, is not an argument but a comment which, given your apparent dislike of anybody taking direct action, was sardonic. It bordered on being facetious but then so did your original second paragraph.
I can recommend “ Teach Yourself Philosophy”. It is available in all good bookshops.
Comments
Having an electoral system that deliberately shuts out non conformist views encourages direct action.
*checks notes
Part time care work.
Terrifyingly, I tick 2 of those boxes.
Nearly as bad as following James O'brien on Twitter
The problem will always be that as we agree with these people, they will just go further and further, because these people need a cause, whatever it is. If the government agreed to their demands of 2025, they would wait a few months, and then demand it is moved forward to 2023.
And for every person saying "no one cares about violence if it is against the right people" (of which to the best of my understanding there has not been any actual violence, just hyperbole) I would say that "no one cares about disruption as long as it is by the right people" (and there has been plenty of that, and plenty of people condoning it). There are plenty of groups of people who are less "right on" than this lot that could be watching and learning from this.
I think the main thing about it is that there is no real "suffering" for the people protesting.
Imagine they they do all have jobs, the majority of them are on annual leave, the people in their cars, are not.
"But the world is facing an emergency" is something the vast majority of the people in the cars would agree with... The complete lack of self awareness of these people is beyond belief, but entirely predictable. No doubt 99% of their views and opinions are taken from an echo chamber, as is the case of the vast majority of "activists," a parallel I would apply to some much more distasteful groups as well.
I would like to see all protestors, once arrested, put on a bus to the Scottish Highlands and let out there. It will add to the amount of time until they can be back out disrupting, and actually cause them a proper inconvenience, rather than just being processed for a few hours on their day off.
It's really important to understand the viewpoints of those that you disagree with, but I really do feel like him and the people that "follow" him have a distinct lack of critical thinking and, much like many of the people they despise, only want to hear things they agree with.
He's just a left wing Piers Morgan, saying a load of shite to be provocative, but I bet if you sat down with him in your dining room, he wouldn't come up with half of that bollocks, it's a living, and all the money these days is in the culture wars.
I do buy into the fact that one can change their views and outlook over time and I am sure he has done as he's matured. But at the same time I remember the Frank Lampard call and am not a fan of how he doesn't engage in real debate with anyone that he can't bully/ talk over or cut off and do wonder if there is an element of the fact he has carved out a career niche as the compassionate, caring one and has gone all in in the same way Katie Hopkins developed the opposite persona for commercial reasons. Caricatures of their real personalities and views perhaps.
His messianic fan base on twitter are utterly obnoxious too.
A good bloke on the whole though and does talk a lot of sense most of the time even if it makes me feel uncomfortable when he points out certain things that make you question yourself.
Slagging off Corbyn just means he has a functioning brain.
I really like him and enjoy listening to him and agree with everything you've said.
Pretending he is somehow above being a provocative twat like most radio presenters is foolish, they're all the same.
Having said that, he is the only person I've heard on that station who effectively cuts people off and talks over them.
You either let all the attention seeking dicks ruin people's day, or none of them.
As well as consistent cases of "cognitive dissonance"
Maybe left wing is the wrong description, literally anti anything the government does would be more precise, painfully so.
But his livelihood depends on it, I might sound overly critical there but I really do like him, he was one of my heroes growing up for reasons I won't bother going into, but his routine is unbelievably predictable and transparent.
I've realised I've taken this thread off topic, sorry.
No doubt you thought that people protesting in South Africa against apartheid were “attention seeking dicks”.
I believe that is what my comrades call a "strawman."
Try harder
He’s certainly pretentious, but even he admits that. Anyway yeah back to the topic my bad 👍🏻
The third paragraph, the one you highlighted, is not an argument but a comment which, given your apparent dislike of anybody taking direct action, was sardonic. It bordered on being facetious but then so did your original second paragraph.
I can recommend “ Teach Yourself Philosophy”. It is available in all good bookshops.