Nobody in 2021 who is remotely in touch with language will rebrand a team from ladies to women. If the women's team weren't consulted and the story is true then it's a clueless decision.
The noise it is generating and will continue to generate will convince TS that it is a battle not worth fighting, and taken an entrenched position will be seen by him to be harmful with no meaningful benefit. Of course, it's a battle he should never have engaged in the first place.
I cannot see a single reason for doing this other than he can because he's the owner. It's a terrible decision and another example that the people advising him are at times inept. We need an experienced CEO in place to offer advice to prevent this type of thing happening. Addicks to victory at the end of a win being another load of bollox. If he refuses to listen then I'm afraid it's all about his ego.
I think the people advising him may have found that challenging his view doesn’t get them anywhere, which in turn makes them less likely to do it. There is a risk you end up with a group of people who just spend their time agreeing with the leader to protect their own position.
This in my view is why he wouldn’t have a strong and experienced chief executive. Mind you, you could also argue that buying the club without the ground was a very bad business decision, which wiser heads would have talked him out of.
One of the big things he did when coming in was relaunch the ‘Womens’ Team. Why on earth would he now want to rebrand it as ‘Ladies’? Mad.
And for men who keep asking what difference it makes? It’s not up to you because you’re not female, sorry but that’s the plain truth of it.
At the end of the day, if the girls who play for the team that’s branded under ‘Charlton’ don’t want it to be changed because it isn’t appropriate, then don’t fecking change it, end of discussion.
This was brewing last week on Twitter and I was befuddled then. I am befuddled now. im not entirely sure what the issue is between using ladies instead of women or vice versa.
having said that it has certainlyProvoked a reaction so it might have been better asking the question as opposed to just doing it
In which case, he should have left it as Charlton Women, which is what the team want to be known as.
I personally don't give a shit either way. I support Charlton mens team. If I happen to see that the "Ladies" team won 10-0, my reaction is the same to them losing 10-0. I can't understand why people think you support the mens team, so therefore have some feeling towards the women's game. I find it annoying when the media keep intergrating it all under the same banner and injecting their news into the general mens football articles and this includes clubs doing it. I really enjoy listening to Charlton Live podcast, but every now and then they start banging on about the womens team and playing interviews of players and managers. It's not what their audience is there for. Let them have their own pod. I know I'll probably get slated for saying this, but I'll be shocked if even 5% of the users here bother following the girls game. To me, Women's football to a different sport that I have no interest in.............
So why comment on this then? Eejit. 🙄
Because we're discussing it on a Charlton Forum which is for the mens team where we all give out opinion and this is mine.
Funny, cos I’m pretty damn sure there’s a thread on here about wrestling. This has feck all to do with Charlton, I’m not the slightest bit interested in watching grown adults ‘pretend’ to fight, therefore I don’t fecking post/comment on it.
One of the big things he did when coming in was relaunch the ‘Womens’ Team. Why on earth would he now want to rebrand it as ‘Ladies’? Mad.
And for men who keep asking what difference it makes? It’s not up to you because you’re not female, sorry but that’s the plain truth of it.
At the end of the day, if the girls who play for the team that’s branded under ‘Charlton’ don’t want it to be changed because it isn’t appropriate, then don’t fecking change it, end of discussion.
So presumably women should have no opinion on the men’s team either, because you know, you’re not male....?
No, the discussion about what’s the difference between ‘ladies/women’. That’s the point I’m making. If the overall majority of the women don’t want the change, the men should accept it. That goes for the owner, employees, supporters alike.
One of the big things he did when coming in was relaunch the ‘Womens’ Team. Why on earth would he now want to rebrand it as ‘Ladies’? Mad.
And for men who keep asking what difference it makes? It’s not up to you because you’re not female, sorry but that’s the plain truth of it.
At the end of the day, if the girls who play for the team that’s branded under ‘Charlton’ don’t want it to be changed because it isn’t appropriate, then don’t fecking change it, end of discussion.
So presumably women should have no opinion on the men’s team either, because you know, you’re not male....?
No, the discussion about what’s the difference between ‘ladies/women’. That’s the point I’m making. If the overall majority of the women don’t want the change, the men should accept it. That goes for the owner, employees, supporters alike.
Completely agree with you - a bizarre decision. For a club lauded for its community work and inclusiveness it just looks out of touch with 2021.
I’d honestly like to know why he wants to change it? And if I see him Saturday I’m going to ask him.
If I were allowed to play back in the day it really wouldn’t have bothered me what the team name was, I was that desperate just to play. But we’ve moved on, so even I have to concede it clearly matters more to the current generation.
A boss I now consider my best mate once gave me a very good piece of advice.
Choose your battles.
I’m truly at a loss as to the logic of this decision 🤷♀️
I’d honestly like to know why he wants to change it? And if I see him Saturday I’m going to ask him.
If I were allowed to play back in the day it really wouldn’t have bothered me what the team name was, I was that desperate just to play. But we’ve moved on, so even I have to concede it clearly matters more to the current generation.
A boss I now consider my best mate once gave me a very good piece of advice.
Choose your battles.
I’m truly at a loss as to the logic of this decision 🤷♀️
on 'Girls' this is one that I've seen the research on when I was at Sport England, and This Girl Can was being put together, and it was only once the focus groups and market testing with women was done, that 'Girls' stayed in, and was seen as ok, and an acceptable term for women to describe themselves and group activities.
Other than people telling you it's bad, why is the term "ladies" now seen as bad?
I've always been confused about this and no one has ever given a clear answer, Google included.
Years ago I had a GF who hated being called a lady. She was a woman, she said.
Up to that point, I'd always grown up thinking woman and lady were interchangeable terms. Not so. Why not ask the women that you know, what they think and want?
Can only echo what others have said in that this makes no sense. I don't follow the women's game but if the players themselves want the name to remain as "women" then you just respect that don't you? All very odd.
on 'Girls' this is one that I've seen the research on when I was at Sport England, and This Girl Can was being put together, and it was only once the focus groups and market testing with women was done, that 'Girls' stayed in, and was seen as ok, and an acceptable term for women to describe themselves and group activities.
That’s very interesting. That particular campaign I feel no connection with because it seems to be aimed at a younger audience. Maybe that’s another reason why ‘women’ is better? More all encompassing?
on 'Girls' this is one that I've seen the research on when I was at Sport England, and This Girl Can was being put together, and it was only once the focus groups and market testing with women was done, that 'Girls' stayed in, and was seen as ok, and an acceptable term for women to describe themselves and group activities.
That’s very interesting. That particular campaign I feel no connection with because it seems to be aimed at a younger audience. Maybe that’s another reason why ‘women’ is better? More all encompassing?
It was seen as ok right through the age groups, and was particularly ok with women in what was described as the 'Mumsnet' group, which was the main target audience (30-45).
I'm not gonna get into the ins and outs of what is the right or wrong word to use and what is offensive in what context and what isn't because its not my place.
What is very telling is that almost every club that was using ladies has at some point in the last 15 years moved to using women. A few remain using ladies. Not a single club has moved from using women to ladies.
That in itself shows this would be a significant backwards step.
I'm very grateful to TS for getting the women's club back under the same umbrella as the men's. It's a big part of making us feel like a proper club again. Likewise making the women team professional is huge. But get that ego in check.
14 of the 22 teams playing in the ‘Women’ FA cup on Sunday were ladies. The bigger teams are defo mainly women though.
Only a handful still use ladies in the top 2 leagues. Lower down there are more.
My point was about direction of travel. Many have gone from ladies to women, none have gone the other way. Its significant.
Funny when people moan about his awful song they are told "It's his club" but now something equally as trivial happens, he should have sought the opinion of others.
There's loads of things in my workplace that I don't want to happen but have happened anyway and vice versa, that's life.
That said, it seems pointless and has just brought avoidable bad PR from the offended by everything brigade.
Funny when people moan about his awful song they are told "It's his club" but now something equally as trivial happens, he should have sought the opinion of others.
There's loads of things in my workplace that I don't want to happen but have happened anyway and vice versa, that's life.
That said, it seems pointless and has just brought avoidable bad PR from the offended by everything brigade.
People obviously do care so why not consult them - it's lazy and arrogant not to. Charlton is a club which is part of the wider community and not simply a business.
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This in my view is why he wouldn’t have a strong and experienced chief executive. Mind you, you could also argue that buying the club without the ground was a very bad business decision, which wiser heads would have talked him out of.
This has feck all to do with Charlton, I’m not the slightest bit interested in watching grown adults ‘pretend’ to fight, therefore I don’t fecking post/comment on it.
Pretty easy really 🤷♀️
That’s the point I’m making.
If the overall majority of the women don’t want the change, the men should accept it. That goes for the owner, employees, supporters alike.
Language matters.
And if I see him Saturday I’m going to ask him.
If I were allowed to play back in the day it really wouldn’t have bothered me what the team name was, I was that desperate just to play. But we’ve moved on, so even I have to concede it clearly matters more to the current generation.
A boss I now consider my best mate once gave me a very good piece of advice.
Choose your battles.
I’m truly at a loss as to the logic of this decision 🤷♀️
She was a woman, she said.
Up to that point, I'd always grown up thinking woman and lady were interchangeable terms. Not so.
Why not ask the women that you know, what they think and want?
A lot of women I know have disliked the use of ladies since back in the 70s.
That particular campaign I feel no connection with because it seems to be aimed at a younger audience.
Maybe that’s another reason why ‘women’ is better?
More all encompassing?
My point was about direction of travel. Many have gone from ladies to women, none have gone the other way. Its significant.
Funny when people moan about his awful song they are told "It's his club" but now something equally as trivial happens, he should have sought the opinion of others.
There's loads of things in my workplace that I don't want to happen but have happened anyway and vice versa, that's life.
That said, it seems pointless and has just brought avoidable bad PR from the offended by everything brigade.