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Charlton Women to rebrand as "Charlton Ladies" - turned down by FA (p28)
Comments
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Uh-oh! The worm has turned! Expertise is so 2015! Grapevine, you have lost your people!Cardinal Sin said:
Superiority Complex.Leuth said:Grapevine has written very eloquently and persuasively in the past in favour of women's rights and against workplace harassment. But his greater fealty lies elsewhere...woe betide anybody who steps in the path of structured corporate governance
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"What does this cover? What the history between 2000-2007 when we we disbanded the club? That history? Any pictures of supporters protesting at Greenwich Town Hall in 2007? How many references are there in Colin Cameron’s records or Tom Morris photographs?"
Tom wasn't the only photographer covering the club and he didn't cover the youth/academy teams, the later years of the reserve team, away games after the early 2000s, commercial activity post 1998 or anything at all after 2005 until 2018. The fact that he didn't (often or at all) cover the women's team is evidence of nothing, particularly as other Charlton photographers regularly did. His absence away from The Valley hardly meant that away games weren't significant - it meant he couldn't do everything and prioritised the men's first team home matches.
Colin died in 2012. I did have this conversation with him, as his initial view was that he wouldn't keep any records, although he did worry that if they became more popular then he would regret not having done so from the early 2000s. The earlier "Charlton Ladies" team was never formally affiliated to the club.
I am baffled as to why anyone should have protested to Greenwich Council about a decision wholly taken by the Charlton board. From my limited recollection, the council may have raised concerns with the club at the time.4 -
Am I right in thinking there’s a fans forum tonight and Thomas Sandgaard will be attending? I’m not aware of who on here, if anyone, will be in attendance, but maybe a good opportunity to get his thoughts on this out in the open.3
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No excuses it’s compulsory reading otherwise you can’t contribute the debate 😉.Bedsaddick said:Grapevine49 said:[A long post that really didn't need quoting in full for a one line gag]
TLTR
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All together now “we hear the battle cry, tonight it’s do or die”7
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Grapevine49 said:What is the incessant nonsense any decision you disagree with has to be an ego based or vanity exercise? Do you actually understand what those terms mean?
Yes. No need to be so condescendingly patronising.15 -
You cannot use the term "Guys" now just in case you offend someone, hence why it's missing from this thread.WSS said:What's happened to @AFKABartram's "Guys..."?
Well done @AFKABartram for setting the standard3 -
In Sporting terms it has to be Charlton Woman; in business as well.
Dr Rayelyn Maloney PHD and the Girlfriend/ woman friend/lady friend/squeeze/partner/
Lover/companion/sweetheart/confidant/
flame/intimate/better half/bed associate/significant other:
Should advise Thomas, not to swim against the tide on this or else he will be caught in a maelstrom of his own making.
He will be drowning not waving.
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.soapboxsam said:
What evidence is there that he listens to the views of Dr Rayelyn Maloney?In Sporting terms it has to be Charlton Woman; in business as well.
Dr Rayelyn Maloney PHD and the Girlfriend/ woman friend/lady friend/squeeze/partner/
Lover/companion/sweetheart/confidant/
flame/intimate/better half/bed associate/significant other:
Should advise Thomas, not to swim against the tide on this or else he will be caught in a maelstrom of his own making.
He will be drowning not waving.0 - Sponsored links:
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Just don't change the name or colours of any football team. It never goes down well!
It's as simple as that!
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In reply to Grapevine 49 (without the quote)
As a CAFC supporter of over 50 years I no longer attend many matches due to the pandemic but that does not mean that I am not allowed an opinion on all matters Charlton no matter the gender.
To me it is not the new nomleclature of the team that matters but the manner in which it has been done. I do not dispute that the owner has the right to do it but as he has put himself up as wishing to be inclusive to all things Charlton I find it disturbing that he has not given reasons for the change and allegedly ridden roughshod over the wishes of the team. It then leads me to wonder what he will do with regard to the appointment to replace NA, if he again ignores the wishes of the fans and players there will be an even bigger backlash.
Grapevine please understand that a football club is its supporters not the owners, managers and stadia that may come and go but we the fans remain and should be heard.5 -
Leuth said:
Uh-oh! The worm has turned! Expertise is so 2015! Grapevine, you have lost your people!Cardinal Sin said:
Superiority Complex.Leuth said:Grapevine has written very eloquently and persuasively in the past in favour of women's rights and against workplace harassment. But his greater fealty lies elsewhere...woe betide anybody who steps in the path of structured corporate governance
It's not expertise. It's expert corporate business knowledge being misapplied to a 3rd division south east London football club with supporters not shareholders.
It doesn't translate quite so naturally as football is more like art than corporate business. Weird that millions of us around the globe are obsessed by every minutiae and intricate detail of mediocre football clubs but we do with a zeal and passion beyond explanation or rationale.
And we are emotionally and historically far more invested than even the wealthiest of majority corporate shareholders in our clubs.
No one gets this passionate about Microsoft of Goldman Sachs. And whilst well respected business insight and acumen can play a part football is more like art not business when it comes down to it so comparing the running of clubs (outside of perhaps the top super league clubs) only has limited relevance.
Can business and corporate techniques be successfully applied, yes of course but they will not translate into the running and owning of a football club in the manner they will in true businesses. They are more than businesses, they are community and municipal institutions.
We're not a product or a brand or a business unit to be maximised for shareholder benefit. We are a 100 plus year old institution seeped in tradition and owned by the fans in the spiritual sense many of whom are generational fans. And this is the case regardless of who holds the deeds at whatever point in that history.16 -
So you stop exercising once you past 45? 🤔Rothko said:
It was seen as ok right through the age groups, and was particularly ok with women in what was described as the 'Mumsnet' group, which was the main target audience (30-45).KBslittlesis said:
That’s very interesting.Rothko said:on 'Girls' this is one that I've seen the research on when I was at Sport England, and This Girl Can was being put together, and it was only once the focus groups and market testing with women was done, that 'Girls' stayed in, and was seen as ok, and an acceptable term for women to describe themselves and group activities.
That particular campaign I feel no connection with because it seems to be aimed at a younger audience.
Maybe that’s another reason why ‘women’ is better?
More all encompassing?0 -
N01R4M said:
.soapboxsam said:
What evidence is there that he listens to the views of Dr Rayelyn Maloney?In Sporting terms it has to be Charlton Woman; in business as well.
Dr Rayelyn Maloney PHD and the Girlfriend/ woman friend/lady friend/squeeze/partner/
Lover/companion/sweetheart/confidant/
flame/intimate/better half/bed associate/significant other:
Should advise Thomas, not to swim against the tide on this or else he will be caught in a maelstrom of his own making.
He will be drowning not waving.
I spelt Dr Maloney name wrong;
It's Raelynn Maloney.
I believe the relationship they have, and having read articles from Raelynn, I sense he does listen to her views because they wouldn't be together if he didn't.
She is a successful business woman in her own right.
He may have run with this himself and not shared this with his Partner; We don't know.
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Thank you for the link. A helpful read.RedChaser said:
It certainly does. I thought this might just be an age thing but clearly it’s not and this link has well and truly enlightened me.Dazzler21 said:
Incorrect. Understanding why something is offensive can help reduce further misunderstandings and help people to grow.Croydon said:A lot of men showing themselves up on this thread. You haven't got to understand why it's offensive, and it doesn't have to matter to you.
It does matter to understand change.
https://helloclue.com/articles/culture/lets-talk-about-word-lady2 -
Grapevine, just no, honestly no.
I’m scratching my grey locks on this one I really am.
If you want to rebrand it, then rebrand it completely. Don’t hark back to a time that was controversial enough as it was 🙄 took us years to move on from that nonsense (never wanted owt to do with anything from Croydon tbh).
I was a regular spectator at Stonebridge Rd, loved every minute & followed the players journeys even when they moved on. I was devastated when the team disbanded.
I really hoped TS would do better. And until he explains rationally why he has come about this decision and why he thinks it’s a good one, I will remain completely against it.5 -
The point being there are two major drop off from sports points for women, one is around 13/14, the other is around becoming a mother, and it was aimed very much at addressing those points in life.KBslittlesis said:
So you stop exercising once you past 45? 🤔Rothko said:
It was seen as ok right through the age groups, and was particularly ok with women in what was described as the 'Mumsnet' group, which was the main target audience (30-45).KBslittlesis said:
That’s very interesting.Rothko said:on 'Girls' this is one that I've seen the research on when I was at Sport England, and This Girl Can was being put together, and it was only once the focus groups and market testing with women was done, that 'Girls' stayed in, and was seen as ok, and an acceptable term for women to describe themselves and group activities.
That particular campaign I feel no connection with because it seems to be aimed at a younger audience.
Maybe that’s another reason why ‘women’ is better?
More all encompassing?0 -
I agree, but you don't need to understand why they don't want you to call them ladies. Them asking should be enough.Dazzler21 said:
Incorrect. Understanding why something is offensive can help reduce further misunderstandings and help people to grow.Croydon said:A lot of men showing themselves up on this thread. You haven't got to understand why it's offensive, and it doesn't have to matter to you.
It does matter to understand change.
It's the right thing to do to try to learn and understand it, of course.1 -
What about a combination of the two;
Charlton Womdies or;
Charlton Ladmen.
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Cawleys reporting on it now: https://londonnewsonline.co.uk/thomas-sandgaard-committed-to-rebrand-of-charlton-athletic-women/0
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I am a season ticket holder for the womens team. I sent a private Tweet to Thomas and Raelynn requesting a change of mind yesterday but have not received a reply.
It may have to come that there is a season ticket boycott for next season but hopefully the FA will refuse to accept the change.1 -
These matters (and others) would be covered by the "golden share" for fans, as recommended in the FLR report.stevexreeve said:Just don't change the name or colours of any football team. It never goes down well!
It's as simple as that!
Is this matter of wishing to rename Charlton Women perhaps reason TS has not yet commented publically on the Fan Led Review? I am sure there are plenty of other things in the FLR, such as the changes to the directors and owners tests, which are a good fit with things he was saying last autumn about club ownership.2 -
I opened this thread due to curiosity, every few messages are interspersed with an advertisement for Boux Avenue women’s brassiers and keks.8
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Well we know what you google In you’re spare time then !seth plum said:I opened this thread due to curiosity, every few messages are interspersed with an advertisement for Boux Avenue women’s brassiers and keks.2 -
If ever there was a post worth deleting, it may be this one. Perhaps that's why a few people are quoting it, in order to preserve it.seth plum said:I opened this thread due to curiosity, every few messages are interspersed with an advertisement for Boux Avenue women’s brassiers and keks.1 -
Gender appropriation.CAFCTrev said:Cawleys reporting on it now: https://londonnewsonline.co.uk/thomas-sandgaard-committed-to-rebrand-of-charlton-athletic-women/0 -
content://com.android.chrome.FileProvider/images/screenshot/16390615251141256432535.jpg
To this was my last ad.
Must be because I'm a real man who works out a lot 🤔0 -
Led Zeppelin reaction videos.Bedsaddick said:
Well we know what you google In you’re spare time then !seth plum said:I opened this thread due to curiosity, every few messages are interspersed with an advertisement for Boux Avenue women’s brassiers and keks.0
