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MATCH THREAD [+post-match p21]: Hartlepool vs Charlton | Papa John's Trophy | Tuesday 25th Jan 2022

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    75% of the post match comments on here state that the players don't care.

    This really saddens me but it's not the first time these words have been used since last August heralded the start of another season.

    It goes without saying that we expect our team to give their all every time they step onto the pitch... to wear THE shirt with pride and to leave nothing behind when they wearily drag themselves down the tunnel at the final whistle. 

    And by the same token, to be either satisfied or indeed mortified by their individual performances and that of the team as a whole. 

    Maybe this is "fantasy football"....Roy of the Rovers stuff  & far from reality. Am I totally deluded to expect this mind set from our lads?

    I look at our players & see, on the whole, decent, honest individuals with each & every one of them wanting what WE want - for our club to be successful & our team, one to be proud of. 

    So, what is/not going on for the faithful to point the finger and accuse them of not caring ? Is this lack of endeavour, lack of desire, lack of skill or maybe lack of a coherent game plan? Or am I missing something else ? 

    I can understand when a manager is said to have lost the changing room & as such, the players' belief in his/her modus operandi. 

    But surely that can't be a factor in current performances. 

    Neither can the loss of one or maybe two significant team members ( think Stockley ) explain the worrying results which leave us only 6 points off the dreaded relegation places. Surely there has to be a Plan B, and probably C, to deal with such situations. 

    I'm not losing sleep over these concerning times ( yet) but we are beginning to question whether we should spend our time & hard earned travelling to matches in Wigan & Sheffield - something we haven't given a second thought about in previous seasons. 

    So, I'm asking, what seems to be going on ( or not) in our players' heads for 90+ minutes on a matchday and why.

    Fanny needs your thoughts, please.
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    cabbles said:
    I thought Aneke looked like an absolute bag of bricks when he came on.  That’s really excited me given he’s signed a 3 and a half year deal.  

    Leko didn’t grab this opportunity with both hands either.  
    Had this been a loan til end of season then being able to access his fitness & performance levels then it’s a good signing, buying now, not for me
    Certainly not on a three & a half year contract, that's fucking madness. 
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    Croydon said:
    I thought Watson had a decent opening 15 mins, won a couple of 50/50's and played some forward passes into Gilbey through the line. Posted that on the match thread, then he was fucking useless. Should been dragged after 50 mins. Leko is the most frustrating footballer on earth and is now at the point of offering nothing. Awful performance.
    Leko has been absolutely dreadful lately. He's a player I really like, but his cameo at Cheltenham was like he'd won a competition to play football for the day
    Presumably not a competition that involved kicking balls?
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    75% of the post match comments on here state that the players don't care.

    This really saddens me but it's not the first time these words have been used since last August heralded the start of another season.

    It goes without saying that we expect our team to give their all every time they step onto the pitch... to wear THE shirt with pride and to leave nothing behind when they wearily drag themselves down the tunnel at the final whistle. 

    And by the same token, to be either satisfied or indeed mortified by their individual performances and that of the team as a whole. 

    Maybe this is "fantasy football"....Roy of the Rovers stuff  & far from reality. Am I totally deluded to expect this mind set from our lads?

    I look at our players & see, on the whole, decent, honest individuals with each & every one of them wanting what WE want - for our club to be successful & our team, one to be proud of. 

    So, what is/not going on for the faithful to point the finger and accuse them of not caring ? Is this lack of endeavour, lack of desire, lack of skill or maybe lack of a coherent game plan? Or am I missing something else ? 

    I can understand when a manager is said to have lost the changing room & as such, the players' belief in his/her modus operandi. 

    But surely that can't be a factor in current performances. 

    Neither can the loss of one or maybe two significant team members ( think Stockley ) explain the worrying results which leave us only 6 points off the dreaded relegation places. Surely there has to be a Plan B, and probably C, to deal with such situations. 

    I'm not losing sleep over these concerning times ( yet) but we are beginning to question whether we should spend our time & hard earned travelling to matches in Wigan & Sheffield - something we haven't given a second thought about in previous seasons. 

    So, I'm asking, what seems to be going on ( or not) in our players' heads for 90+ minutes on a matchday and why.

    Fanny needs your thoughts, please.
    There is, in my opinion, something seriously wrong at the training ground in either the way the players are given information or what information they are given. 

    Last season we had a scratch team and won 6 in a row with no time between games then get two weeks off and regress an alarming amount.

    We changed manager, without much time on the training ground, massive improvement.  We get time to work on it and it regresses again. 

    Jackson had 48 hours to prepare the team for Sunderland, like night and day.  Now he has time on the training ground.......

    Mark my words there will be rumours and leaks about not talking about tactics or telling people to defend naturally before the end of the season. 
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    Dazzler21 said:
    Stewart said:
    cabbles said:
    Can’t wait for Jason Pearce’s pathetic tweet about it being ‘not the result we wanted, we regroup and go again for the run in for the rest of the season’ etc etc 
    No player has commented on the game on Instagram so far. 

    Think it will stay this way. 

    The only tweet about last night that i'd like to see is one from the club announcing they're reimbursing the ticket and travel costs for the 235 fans who went up there.
    Don't be silly. It's the gamble of going to football, even more so cup football.
    Yeah you're right, no club has ever reimbursed traveling fans after a terrible performance.
    If that's the criteria then we won't have any money left for transfers in the summer.
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    If you don't think that was close to a full strength, first choice side then I'd question who you've been watching all season.

    For context, in previous games in the pizza cup we've seen the following play regularly, mostly starting:

    Harness
    Henry
    Souare
    Watson
    Dempsey
    Elerwere
    Clayden
    Ness
    Bakrin
    Matthews
    CBT
    Burstow

    In fact, the last time we played something close to a first choice in this comp was against villas kids, where we won 4-1.

    But yeah, I'm sure the players and coaching staff weren't taking it seriously at all....
    I'd argue the players, the coaching staff will have taken it seriously. 

    Underestimate your opponent and you will fail. 
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    A huge thank you to the travelling Addicks for making the long trip north this evening. Superb support, as always

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    I do not see many Charlton games live, which is why I depend on the matchday thread and post matchday thread, but different fans putting up their preferred Charlton team and how we should play, but from the reading of the comments on here, it does not matter who plays lately,they have been a huge disappointment. Something has definitely happened since JJ was made permanent manager with the players, the ones that were excelling like Lee, is now the worst player on the pitch. I am not saying the players are against JJ, but it has got to be a mind thing. Very few players seem to have the same fight as before. I assume we have a psychologist working to help players with problems, if so, I think they have their work cut out with the squad, before they drag Burstow down with them
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    Chunes said:
    Croydon said:
    I thought Watson had a decent opening 15 mins, won a couple of 50/50's and played some forward passes into Gilbey through the line. Posted that on the match thread, then he was fucking useless. Should been dragged after 50 mins. Leko is the most frustrating footballer on earth and is now at the point of offering nothing. Awful performance.
    Leko has been absolutely dreadful lately. He's a player I really like, but his cameo at Cheltenham was like he'd won a competition to play football for the day
    DJ and Leko have lost all threat now they're being played so deep and wide as wingbacks. 
    This is a fair point. However, when presented with an opportunity to beat a man 1v1, Leko is still failing miserably. Which is doubly frustrating as that used to be the best part of his game.
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    edited January 2022
    follett said:

    DJ and Leko have lost all threat now they're being played so deep and wide as wingbacks. 
    Exactly this and as attackers they both hardly have a defensive bone in their body, making them look useless whenever they play. They are both very talented players but trying to shift them into positions they can't play is going to make them play much worse than they're capable of 
    Perhaps the Chelsea lad will be different but him aside we don't have any wingbacks, but we still keep pursuing the same formation. To me a wingback is a pacey defender who can cross a ball not a naturally attacking player who is asked to do defensive duties. Last night he could have changed the system and tried a 442. He could have rested some very leggy players of late and utilised some youngsters which worked in the earlier rounds but no it was the same tired formation with tired players making a pointless 600 mile round trip.
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    It's no coincidence in my opinion that 4 or 5 of that starting 11 were ones dropped or left out under Bowyer, came in and played well under Adkins, were then dropped by Adkins. 

    Then Jackson was a genius for picking them and Adkins was an idiot for not.  Well it looks like they are all getting dropped again, sooner rather than later.

    It's one thing when you have got players that plainly aren't good enough, ones who's legs have gone, or are doing a job due to an injury crisis.  It's another thing completely when the same players are brilliant, well very good anyway, for a month then revert to the shambles of previous months.

    7 of that 11 started when we beat Plymouth 6-0, 7 also started in the 2-0 at home to Ipswich.  
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    edited January 2022
    If we're questioning the dressing room culture at the club over the past few seasons, I'd hesitantly suggest the questions start with the captain... I think it was Bowyer who said that Pearce is a great pro and nice guy but he's not the kind of captain who will be questioning his mates as to why they're not doing their jobs.

    It would make sense as to how most of them seem to turn up as and when it suits them. If you have a Gerrard or Keane type figure in there who demands a performance or else knocks heads together, you will rarely get that kind of drop off. We're getting it every other week.

    If Pearce isn't that kind of bloke, not saying he should pretend to be, but you would hope that someone else in the squad would step up and do it, or else we would sign more leaders.
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    Chunes said:
    If we're questioning the dressing room culture at the club over the past few seasons, I'd hesitantly suggest the questions start with the captain... I think it was Bowyer who said that Pearce is a great pro and nice guy but he's not the kind of captain who will be questioning his mates as to why they're not doing their jobs.

    It would make sense as to how most of them seem to turn up as and when it suits them. If you have a Gerrard or Keane type figure in there who demands a performance or else knocks heads together, you will rarely get that kind of drop off. We're getting it every other week.

    If Pearce isn't that kind of bloke, not saying he should pretend to be, but you would hope that someone else in the squad would step up and do it, or else we would sign more leaders.
    I agree with this.  Pearce's performances seem to reflect the rest of teams he doesn't seem the type of character that can drag a team out of a rut.  Not like a Kinsella or Jackson.

    His performances are also a bit of a bellwether for the harmony in the camp IMO. 
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    Our players aren't 'all that' we know, but neither are many of the squads in League One. Surely a decent manager could get more out of them than this seasons points tally has shown. I'm so hoping Jacko is with us for some time. 

    I'd love to know who Jacko, Gallen, Sandgaard Jnr etc want to keep or shift in the summer. 
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    edited January 2022
    Was up there last night. Post match had a few pints with some Hartlepool Season Ticket Holders. Only people affiliated to Charlton that could take any credit last night were the crowd. Hartlepool actually had 6/7 of their first 11 resting for this match. An interesting observation from the Hartlepool fans was...'you guys have so much of the ball in what could be dangerous areas and do absolutely nothing with it' They were shocked when I informed them with the exception of Watson I wouldn't be surprised if that 11 started on Monday night against Portsmouth.

    I initially believed Jackson was a mistake,  during his caretaker phase he changed my mind. However, since he signed a permanent deal we've reverted back to Adkins style performances, last night might have been a shittier performance than anything an Adkins side pulled out, when considering our opposition.

    If anyone think's Chucks Aneke is the answer to our Goal Scoring problems I'll have some of whatever you're smoking. I was never a fan during his first spell. For me he is cumbersome, slow and doesn't look natural with a ball at his feet.

    CBT for me is actually one of our better summer signings considering he cost Sweet FA. Gallen has to carry the can for the expensive(For L1) squad we've assembled here. Some of them are on very big contracts for L1 if the football salary website is anything to go by.

    Season is a write off and unless something dramatic changes can't really see next season being any different. Same squad of dross.

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    edited January 2022
    Looks bleary eyed like he's been on the piss all day! Ready for bed Jacko..
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    Chunes said:
    If we're questioning the dressing room culture at the club over the past few seasons, I'd hesitantly suggest the questions start with the captain... I think it was Bowyer who said that Pearce is a great pro and nice guy but he's not the kind of captain who will be questioning his mates as to why they're not doing their jobs.

    It would make sense as to how most of them seem to turn up as and when it suits them. If you have a Gerrard or Keane type figure in there who demands a performance or else knocks heads together, you will rarely get that kind of drop off. We're getting it every other week.

    If Pearce isn't that kind of bloke, not saying he should pretend to be, but you would hope that someone else in the squad would step up and do it, or else we would sign more leaders.
    Maybe they’re all too nice. They all seem to be nice, don’t they. 
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    It was a funny game, as I always thought we would lose it. Too many players were too fragile and panicky. Ben Watson showed that he is past it sadly as any player knows to stop the shot and he would have known that too but a simple touch to the left beat him for their second. 
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    Gilbey a bit tone deaf sharing a photo from his goal celebration on Twitter.
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    lonman said:
    Was up there last night. Post match had a few pints with some Hartlepool Season Ticket Holders. Only people affiliated to Charlton that could take any credit last night were the crowd. Hartlepool actually had 6/7 of their first 11 resting for this match. An interesting observation from the Hartlepool fans was...'you guys have so much of the ball in what could be dangerous areas and do absolutely nothing with it' They were shocked when I informed them with the exception of Watson I wouldn't be surprised if that 11 started on Monday night against Portsmouth.

    I initially believed Jackson was a mistake,  during his caretaker phase he changed my mind. However, since he signed a permanent deal we've reverted back to Adkins style performances, last night might have been a shittier performance than anything an Adkins side pulled out, when considering our opposition.

    If anyone think's Chucks Aneke is the answer to our Goal Scoring problems I'll have some of whatever you're smoking. I was never a fan during his first spell. For me he is cumbersome, slow and doesn't look natural with a ball at his feet.

    CBT for me is actually one of our better summer signings considering he cost Sweet FA. Gallen has to carry the can for the expensive(For L1) squad we've assembled here. Some of them are on very big contracts for L1 if the football salary website is anything to go by.

    Season is a write off and unless something dramatic changes can't really see next season being any different. Same squad of dross.

    Blooming heck - I never realised that,

    That just makes last night's performance even worse.
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    Elliot Lee proved how overrated he is in the 5 minutes that he came on for. 
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    Hartlepool rested players - *hiding face emoji*
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    TEL said:
    75% of the post match comments on here state that the players don't care.

    This really saddens me but it's not the first time these words have been used since last August heralded the start of another season.

    It goes without saying that we expect our team to give their all every time they step onto the pitch... to wear THE shirt with pride and to leave nothing behind when they wearily drag themselves down the tunnel at the final whistle. 

    And by the same token, to be either satisfied or indeed mortified by their individual performances and that of the team as a whole. 

    Maybe this is "fantasy football"....Roy of the Rovers stuff  & far from reality. Am I totally deluded to expect this mind set from our lads?

    I look at our players & see, on the whole, decent, honest individuals with each & every one of them wanting what WE want - for our club to be successful & our team, one to be proud of. 

    So, what is/not going on for the faithful to point the finger and accuse them of not caring ? Is this lack of endeavour, lack of desire, lack of skill or maybe lack of a coherent game plan? Or am I missing something else ? 

    I can understand when a manager is said to have lost the changing room & as such, the players' belief in his/her modus operandi. 

    But surely that can't be a factor in current performances. 

    Neither can the loss of one or maybe two significant team members ( think Stockley ) explain the worrying results which leave us only 6 points off the dreaded relegation places. Surely there has to be a Plan B, and probably C, to deal with such situations. 

    I'm not losing sleep over these concerning times ( yet) but we are beginning to question whether we should spend our time & hard earned travelling to matches in Wigan & Sheffield - something we haven't given a second thought about in previous seasons. 

    So, I'm asking, what seems to be going on ( or not) in our players' heads for 90+ minutes on a matchday and why.

    Fanny needs your thoughts, please.
    I think its pretty straightforward really.

    Over expectation which was enhanced by Tommy's "blow the league and europe in five years" comments and Adkins, sincere, "thats going to us next year" after watching the Hull players celebrate winning the league.

    We are one of quite a few very big clubs in league one, with players that are playing well below our expectations and their individual ability.

    Ive seen so many of the so called  small teams this season outplay, outfight and most essentially out pass us.

    We can talk about formations until we are blue in the face and its as clear to me as the as it should be to the coaching staff that converting wingers into wingbacks is almost impossible...yeah feasible for one or two games as cover but over the course of a season? NO!

    The players all seem really happy, bit of a party atmosphere when you look at the training clips...whilst its nice to see people happy in their workplace, Id rather see a more professional approach, like they take what they do for a living seriously. They get paid exceptionally well, its not all about having a laugh, they get paid for what occurs on the pitch.

    As we have said more and more over the last few seasons, square pegs in round holes. That sums things up, some good individual players who cannot consistently play as a team.

    The whole coaching set up at Charlton needs a reset.

    Surely the one thing a professional footballer must be able to do is pass to a team mate......we have many players who just cannot do this. Set plays are rubbish, no free kick specialist, only one midfielder worthy of the title (and will be our player of the year), wingers playing out of position at wingback which stifles their natural forward play, two international full back's who are frankly crap, a new manager who can only play 352 and we appoint a mid table conference guy as coach....Ok I will cut him some slack as he is an unknown.

    So Fanny, is it any wonder why we as a fanbase are so disillusioned?

    This utter shit show of crap-ness will continue until such time as someone grabs it by the scruff of the neck and says enough is enough.

    Whos that going to be?

    If JJ doesn't turn things around we need a complete reset. Bring in a new manager and their staff. This should have been done when bowyer left tbh.
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