Washington 88% offer new deal Inniss 81% offer new deal Purrington 77% offer new deal Forster-Caskey 60% offer new deal Pearce 35% offer new deal Davison 26% offer new deal Matthews 13% offer new deal Henderson 12% offer new deal Watson 5% offer new deal Souare 4% offer new deal Gunter 3% offer new deal
just added mine, only 178 votes. 77% offer Purr a new deal, obv gluttons for punishment
That's the makings of a good team. I don't think our players are anywhere near as bad as they are playing recently.
Mac, Famewo, Gilbey are part of the problems now, weak average players, never get promoted with those three as regulars in the side'
JFC, not sure and Lavelle is not pulling up trees.
Not sure I agree with that. I see your point on recent form, but Famewo and Gilbey were regular enough last season and we missed playoffs by a whisker.
I think its hard to fairly judge the quality of our players at the moment, because we are clearly playing in a system that is not working for them.
If that many players are good enough, how bad is the coaching that we're so far off the pace this season? And why are these particular players getting worse and worse?
That's the makings of a good team. I don't think our players are anywhere near as bad as they are playing recently.
Mac, Famewo, Gilbey are part of the problems now, weak average players, never get promoted with those three as regulars in the side'
JFC, not sure and Lavelle is not pulling up trees.
Not sure I agree with that. I see your point on recent form, but Famewo and Gilbey were regular enough last season and we missed playoffs by a whisker.
I think its hard to fairly judge the quality of our players at the moment, because we are clearly playing in a system that is not working for them.
If that many players are good enough, how bad is the coaching that we're so far off the pace this season? And why are these particular players getting worse and worse?
Yeah I think its pretty poor to be honest. There is no discernible style/pattern to our play which should be evident from the coaching, and the system is ill fitting to the players we have.
We are far less than the sum of our parts at the moment.
If Stockley is going to be one of the 2 up front next season, we'll have to have a style that fits. I would prefer two mobile forwards that can press and run the channels, especially in our current formation. I would also keep Inniss if the rumours of his low wage are true, but would have 3 starting CBs ahead of him. He wouldn't be under as much physical duress, I think he brings something to the group and a bench with Inniss and Chuks on it would be more than decent.
I think there is probably a third club bucking the trend (Plymouth) as well but other than that, it's pretty much spot on.
The way this league is nowadays, there is always the top 8-10 clubs plus a couple of overachievers which this year would be Plymouth and Wycombe (although they were recently relegated so less of a shock IMO). Last year it was Lincoln. The year before Fleetwood.
Our club, in 16th, is underperforming big time. We have a fight on our hands to reach the top half and be "the best of the rest"... depressing all around really.
It would seem a decent plan to assess who you want to keep and who you have got and build around that filling weaknesses. Pragmatism is the best way at this level.
Any players in the Scottish league that are running out of contract in the summer… We should be taking a close look at all available options and trying to arrange pre-contracts for some of the decent ones.
Any players in the Scottish league that are running out of contract in the summer… We should be taking a close look at all available options and trying to arrange pre-contracts for some of the decent ones.
Start now. Don’t wait until June.
I don't follow Scottish football that closely but does anyone know of any bargains?
I know that Gallen keeps an eye on the League because he 'supports' Celtic.
I was looking at the line-ups for the Spurs v West Ham game at the weekend and noticed that they were both playing a 3 at the back.
The extra interesting part is that they were both playing a player that you might think of as a traditional left back in the left centre back spot.
Ben Davies for Spurs and Aaron Cresswell for West Ham. Both might be considered steady players without a blistering amount of pace and therefore struggle to play wing back. In CAFC terms, that player is Ben Purrington. We have tried similar on the right side too with Matthews and/or Gunter playing right sided centre back when Clare isn't available.
Is this a trend that we are seeing across football more generally? What role do traditional centre backs have to play in today's three at the back formation? Are they going to be crowded out by refitted midfielders and full backs?
I think this trend is a reaction to the the Wilder rampaging 3rd centre back.
Teams seem to want one of the back 3 to be able to come out with the ball to create the overload in midfield or down the wing. Especially if other teams play one up.
As you say we’ve tried this and most successfully IMO with Sean Clare (think the Portsmouth game)
It will be interesting to see next season how it works with specialist wingbacks.
This is also why I don’t accept all that fans moaning about 352 it’s the most in vogue formation in football the issue is we don’t have the right parts for the machine.
I think this trend is a reaction to the the Wilder rampaging 3rd centre back.
Teams seem to want one of the back 3 to be able to come out with the ball to create the overload in midfield or down the wing. Especially if other teams play one up.
As you say we’ve tried this and most successfully IMO with Sean Clare (think the Portsmouth game)
It will be interesting to see next season how it works with specialist wingbacks.
This is also why I don’t accept all that fans moaning about 352 it’s the most in vogue formation in football the issue is we don’t have the right parts for the machine.
No I agree... I feel that Jackson is sticking with 3-5-2 now purely so that the players who stick around (Fraser / Stockley / Dobson etc.) have no excuse next season, as come the end of this term, they'll be fully aware of what Jackson expects as part of a game plan.
Meaning we wont have to waste their time, getting them to try something completely new come pre-season. I get the impression that Footballers are like children, keep things simple and dont over load them with information as we saw with Adkins.
I was looking at the line-ups for the Spurs v West Ham game at the weekend and noticed that they were both playing a 3 at the back.
The extra interesting part is that they were both playing a player that you might think of as a traditional left back in the left centre back spot.
Ben Davies for Spurs and Aaron Cresswell for West Ham. Both might be considered steady players without a blistering amount of pace and therefore struggle to play wing back. In CAFC terms, that player is Ben Purrington. We have tried similar on the right side too with Matthews and/or Gunter playing right sided centre back when Clare isn't available.
Is this a trend that we are seeing across football more generally? What role do traditional centre backs have to play in today's three at the back formation? Are they going to be crowded out by refitted midfielders and full backs?
England did it 4 years ago with Kyle Walker at RCB in the world cup. Personally I think its for at least 3 different reasons.
The academy system produces a disproportionately large number of full backs and wingers, for some reason. What ever system you play you want good players in it. Few team plays with 4 any more so they have to play
Top quality center halves are like rocking horse shit. 20 years ago even a middling Premier league club like us had 4 or 5 good ones.
No one plays with a center forward, let alone 2. How would Bruce and Palister or Adams and Bould cope with Salah and Mane?
Would a John Terry get through a top academy now?
Plenty of chicken and egg but old fashion center backs marked old fashion center forwards. Ironically England's best midfielder is a refitted center half.
I think this trend is a reaction to the the Wilder rampaging 3rd centre back.
Teams seem to want one of the back 3 to be able to come out with the ball to create the overload in midfield or down the wing. Especially if other teams play one up.
As you say we’ve tried this and most successfully IMO with Sean Clare (think the Portsmouth game)
It will be interesting to see next season how it works with specialist wingbacks.
This is also why I don’t accept all that fans moaning about 352 it’s the most in vogue formation in football the issue is we don’t have the right parts for the machine.
Tbf the most in vogue formations in the game, over the last two years are 352, 4231 and 4 diamond 2 and we have been shit in all of them.
I think this trend is a reaction to the the Wilder rampaging 3rd centre back.
Teams seem to want one of the back 3 to be able to come out with the ball to create the overload in midfield or down the wing. Especially if other teams play one up.
As you say we’ve tried this and most successfully IMO with Sean Clare (think the Portsmouth game)
It will be interesting to see next season how it works with specialist wingbacks.
This is also why I don’t accept all that fans moaning about 352 it’s the most in vogue formation in football the issue is we don’t have the right parts for the machine.
Tbf the most in vogue formations in the game, over the last two years are 352, 4231 and 4 diamond 2 and we have been shit in all of them.
Well yes but that’s a different 🤣 … that no formation or manager seems to be able to solve.
I think this trend is a reaction to the the Wilder rampaging 3rd centre back.
Teams seem to want one of the back 3 to be able to come out with the ball to create the overload in midfield or down the wing. Especially if other teams play one up.
As you say we’ve tried this and most successfully IMO with Sean Clare (think the Portsmouth game)
It will be interesting to see next season how it works with specialist wingbacks.
This is also why I don’t accept all that fans moaning about 352 it’s the most in vogue formation in football the issue is we don’t have the right parts for the machine.
Tbf the most in vogue formations in the game, over the last two years are 352, 4231 and 4 diamond 2 and we have been shit in all of them.
I agree.
No one cares what bloody formation we play, if it works.
Our uniquely inept version of 3-5-2 with six outfield players always behind the ball and two outfield players up front, waiting for it to be hoofed to them, is simply dysfunctional and will never work against half-decent teams.
Feel sorry for Fraser. Hopeless task given to him.
Pep had to stick walker in at RCB at city a few seasons ago due to injury and then was born the tactical genius of playing a "speedy" wide CB in a back 3.
Van gaal likes 3 at the back with one of the wide men being a ball player, to bring it out and play a ball, Daley Blind at United/ Netherlands for example.
Probably something that's always been there but never noticed much before. "Utility player" being the reasoning for it I guess.
I think this trend is a reaction to the the Wilder rampaging 3rd centre back.
Teams seem to want one of the back 3 to be able to come out with the ball to create the overload in midfield or down the wing. Especially if other teams play one up.
As you say we’ve tried this and most successfully IMO with Sean Clare (think the Portsmouth game)
It will be interesting to see next season how it works with specialist wingbacks.
This is also why I don’t accept all that fans moaning about 352 it’s the most in vogue formation in football the issue is we don’t have the right parts for the machine.
Tbf the most in vogue formations in the game, over the last two years are 352, 4231 and 4 diamond 2 and we have been shit in all of them.
Well yes but that’s a different 🤣 … that no formation or manager seems to be able to solve.
I think any of those formations are valid. The scary thing is we probably would have played 10 or 11 of the players from the last two games in which everone we played.
The formation is neither the problem nor a magical solution.
I think this trend is a reaction to the the Wilder rampaging 3rd centre back.
Teams seem to want one of the back 3 to be able to come out with the ball to create the overload in midfield or down the wing. Especially if other teams play one up.
As you say we’ve tried this and most successfully IMO with Sean Clare (think the Portsmouth game)
It will be interesting to see next season how it works with specialist wingbacks.
This is also why I don’t accept all that fans moaning about 352 it’s the most in vogue formation in football the issue is we don’t have the right parts for the machine.
I agree but it’s not just about the make up of the squad in being able to play this formation, it’s also about the quality of the players in being able to adapt to it. Massive difference asking Spurs and West Ham players to that of asking third tier players. Most will have been brought through playing 4-4-2 and it’s one that with their limited ability be most comfortable with. The standard of league one is generally poor and my feeling is that we get should aim for a group that excels at the basics before we try and create a third tier Man City.
I think this trend is a reaction to the the Wilder rampaging 3rd centre back.
Teams seem to want one of the back 3 to be able to come out with the ball to create the overload in midfield or down the wing. Especially if other teams play one up.
As you say we’ve tried this and most successfully IMO with Sean Clare (think the Portsmouth game)
It will be interesting to see next season how it works with specialist wingbacks.
This is also why I don’t accept all that fans moaning about 352 it’s the most in vogue formation in football the issue is we don’t have the right parts for the machine.
I agree but it’s not just about the make up of the squad in being able to play this formation, it’s also about the quality of the players in being able to adapt to it. Massive difference asking Spurs and West Ham players to that of asking third tier players. Most will have been brought through playing 4-4-2 and it’s one that with their limited ability be most comfortable with. The standard of league one is generally poor and my feeling is that we get should aim for a group that excels at the basics before we try and create a third tier Man City.
Have they? When was the last time you saw a team, any team play 442? Our academy sides don't play it, none of the Cat 1 academy sides play it and haven't for years.
I think this trend is a reaction to the the Wilder rampaging 3rd centre back.
Teams seem to want one of the back 3 to be able to come out with the ball to create the overload in midfield or down the wing. Especially if other teams play one up.
As you say we’ve tried this and most successfully IMO with Sean Clare (think the Portsmouth game)
It will be interesting to see next season how it works with specialist wingbacks.
This is also why I don’t accept all that fans moaning about 352 it’s the most in vogue formation in football the issue is we don’t have the right parts for the machine.
I agree but it’s not just about the make up of the squad in being able to play this formation, it’s also about the quality of the players in being able to adapt to it. Massive difference asking Spurs and West Ham players to that of asking third tier players. Most will have been brought through playing 4-4-2 and it’s one that with their limited ability be most comfortable with. The standard of league one is generally poor and my feeling is that we get should aim for a group that excels at the basics before we try and create a third tier Man City.
I’m not so sure on the 442 opinion personally. Nobody plays a flat midfield two, we’d be constantly outplayed in the middle and fans would then be all over JJ for his basic tactics.
Let’s face it Matthews and Gunter still wouldn’t be able to defend and DJ still wouldn’t be able to cross a ball even in a 442
Ive said from the start you can’t judge JJ this season until he has his players. This squad was built for 433 or 4231. We were never going up or down - it’s just meant that since Jan we’ve been going through the motions.
I think this trend is a reaction to the the Wilder rampaging 3rd centre back.
Teams seem to want one of the back 3 to be able to come out with the ball to create the overload in midfield or down the wing. Especially if other teams play one up.
As you say we’ve tried this and most successfully IMO with Sean Clare (think the Portsmouth game)
It will be interesting to see next season how it works with specialist wingbacks.
This is also why I don’t accept all that fans moaning about 352 it’s the most in vogue formation in football the issue is we don’t have the right parts for the machine.
I agree but it’s not just about the make up of the squad in being able to play this formation, it’s also about the quality of the players in being able to adapt to it. Massive difference asking Spurs and West Ham players to that of asking third tier players. Most will have been brought through playing 4-4-2 and it’s one that with their limited ability be most comfortable with. The standard of league one is generally poor and my feeling is that we get should aim for a group that excels at the basics before we try and create a third tier Man City.
Have they? When was the last time you saw a team, any team play 442? Our academy sides don't play it, none of the Cat 1 academy sides play it and haven't for years.
I take your point but once players progress to mens football and end up not being good enough for the PL or Championship then I just don’t think the majority of league one players have the ability to play in formations that demand more adaptability, versatility and technical ability during the game. Our players at present are unable to do the basics consistently well enough to break into the top half of the third division. Let’s get a group together that can at least do the basics first and foremost I can’t see the benefits in asking these players playing a formation that they obviously can’t cope with.
I'd argue it takes more adaptability to play the 442 these days because you are constantly pulled all over the place. As Jose Mourinho explains:
‘Look, if I have a triangle in midfield – Claude Makelele behind and two others just in front – I will always have an advantage against a pure 4-4-2 where the central midfielders are side by side. That’s because I will always have an extra man. It starts with Makelele, who is between the lines. If nobody comes to him he can see the whole pitch and has time. If he gets closed down it means one of the two other central midfielders is open. If they are closed down and the other team’s wingers come inside to help, it means there is space now for us on the flank, either for our own wingers or for our full-backs. There is nothing a pure 4-4-2 can do to stop things’.
I think this trend is a reaction to the the Wilder rampaging 3rd centre back.
Teams seem to want one of the back 3 to be able to come out with the ball to create the overload in midfield or down the wing. Especially if other teams play one up.
As you say we’ve tried this and most successfully IMO with Sean Clare (think the Portsmouth game)
It will be interesting to see next season how it works with specialist wingbacks.
This is also why I don’t accept all that fans moaning about 352 it’s the most in vogue formation in football the issue is we don’t have the right parts for the machine.
I agree but it’s not just about the make up of the squad in being able to play this formation, it’s also about the quality of the players in being able to adapt to it. Massive difference asking Spurs and West Ham players to that of asking third tier players. Most will have been brought through playing 4-4-2 and it’s one that with their limited ability be most comfortable with. The standard of league one is generally poor and my feeling is that we get should aim for a group that excels at the basics before we try and create a third tier Man City.
Have they? When was the last time you saw a team, any team play 442? Our academy sides don't play it, none of the Cat 1 academy sides play it and haven't for years.
I take your point but once players progress to mens football and end up not being good enough for the PL or Championship then I just don’t think the majority of league one players have the ability to play in formations that demand more adaptability, versatility and technical ability during the game. Our players at present are unable to do the basics consistently well enough to break into the top half of the third division. Let’s get a group together that can at least do the basics first and foremost I can’t see the benefits in asking these players playing a formation that they obviously can’t cope with.
The majority of L1 play a variant of 3 at the back (352, 343 etc) or 451 (such as 4231 or 433), with the occasional diamond or flat 442. Despite the squad being built for 433/4231 none of our strikers suit the lone role. Stockley’s not mobile enough and Chuks can’t be relied on to build a team around. It worked briefly last season under Adkins when we had Millar on the wing and JFC in the middle. Neither were the very best in L1 but both good at this level and better than what we have at the moment.
I don’t think there’s a formation that solves all the issues with this squad so I can see the logic in what Jackson’s doing - working towards his chosen system and seeing who can adapt and who’s good enough. It’s with a view for the longer term rather than trying to get results in the short term which at best will only result in a slightly higher mid table finish.
I also think confidence has been a big issue recently, the players clearly didn’t expect to get results without proper strikers on the pitch. They’re not going to go from that to playing good passing football within a couple of games.
Comments
We are far less than the sum of our parts at the moment.
I think there is probably a third club bucking the trend (Plymouth) as well but other than that, it's pretty much spot on.
The way this league is nowadays, there is always the top 8-10 clubs plus a couple of overachievers which this year would be Plymouth and Wycombe (although they were recently relegated so less of a shock IMO). Last year it was Lincoln. The year before Fleetwood.
Our club, in 16th, is underperforming big time. We have a fight on our hands to reach the top half and be "the best of the rest"... depressing all around really.
Start now. Don’t wait until June.
I know that Gallen keeps an eye on the League because he 'supports' Celtic.
They’ve played him predominantly on the left this season but we aren’t going to be playing that way.
The extra interesting part is that they were both playing a player that you might think of as a traditional left back in the left centre back spot.
Ben Davies for Spurs and Aaron Cresswell for West Ham. Both might be considered steady players without a blistering amount of pace and therefore struggle to play wing back. In CAFC terms, that player is Ben Purrington. We have tried similar on the right side too with Matthews and/or Gunter playing right sided centre back when Clare isn't available.
Is this a trend that we are seeing across football more generally? What role do traditional centre backs have to play in today's three at the back formation? Are they going to be crowded out by refitted midfielders and full backs?
Teams seem to want one of the back 3 to be able to come out with the ball to create the overload in midfield or down the wing. Especially if other teams play one up.
As you say we’ve tried this and most successfully IMO with Sean Clare (think the Portsmouth game)
It will be interesting to see next season how it works with specialist wingbacks.
Meaning we wont have to waste their time, getting them to try something completely new come pre-season. I get the impression that Footballers are like children, keep things simple and dont over load them with information as we saw with Adkins.
The academy system produces a disproportionately large number of full backs and wingers, for some reason. What ever system you play you want good players in it. Few team plays with 4 any more so they have to play
Top quality center halves are like rocking horse shit. 20 years ago even a middling Premier league club like us had 4 or 5 good ones.
No one plays with a center forward, let alone 2. How would Bruce and Palister or Adams and Bould cope with Salah and Mane?
Would a John Terry get through a top academy now?
Plenty of chicken and egg but old fashion center backs marked old fashion center forwards. Ironically England's best midfielder is a refitted center half.
No one cares what bloody formation we play, if it works.
Our uniquely inept version of 3-5-2 with six outfield players always behind the ball and two outfield players up front, waiting for it to be hoofed to them, is simply dysfunctional and will never work against half-decent teams.
Feel sorry for Fraser. Hopeless task given to him.
Van gaal likes 3 at the back with one of the wide men being a ball player, to bring it out and play a ball, Daley Blind at United/ Netherlands for example.
Probably something that's always been there but never noticed much before. "Utility player" being the reasoning for it I guess.
The formation is neither the problem nor a magical solution.
Let’s face it Matthews and Gunter still wouldn’t be able to defend and DJ still wouldn’t be able to cross a ball even in a 442
Ive said from the start you can’t judge JJ this season until he has his players. This squad was built for 433 or 4231. We were never going up or down - it’s just meant that since Jan we’ve been going through the motions.
‘Look, if I have a triangle in midfield – Claude Makelele behind and two others just in front – I will always have an advantage against a pure 4-4-2 where the central midfielders are side by side. That’s because I will always have an extra man. It starts with Makelele, who is between the lines. If nobody comes to him he can see the whole pitch and has time. If he gets closed down it means one of the two other central midfielders is open. If they are closed down and the other team’s wingers come inside to help, it means there is space now for us on the flank, either for our own wingers or for our full-backs. There is nothing a pure 4-4-2 can do to stop things’.
I don’t think there’s a formation that solves all the issues with this squad so I can see the logic in what Jackson’s doing - working towards his chosen system and seeing who can adapt and who’s good enough. It’s with a view for the longer term rather than trying to get results in the short term which at best will only result in a slightly higher mid table finish.
I also think confidence has been a big issue recently, the players clearly didn’t expect to get results without proper strikers on the pitch. They’re not going to go from that to playing good passing football within a couple of games.