Sounds as if Thomas is staying put while players go to Spain as plenty going on, has extended his stay by 10 days.We're due to play a couple of matches behind closed doors in Spain, in the new kit.
Thanks for the info, do we know if the games will be on stream or if the kit will actually be officially revealed by then?
No stream, completely behind closed doors.
I understand Thomas's half time guitar solo is available on Alan Nixon's patron for a reasonable £19.99 a month 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Alternatively send me £20 a month and I won't share Nixon's news
Good signing for Sheff Wed today, getting Will Vaulks from Cardiff. Very good player at this level.
Saw this and it did feel like a bit of a reality check after getting excited the last 2 days. I like our 2 signings so far but just a reminder this league is going to be difficult to even get top 6 in. Hopefully we have signings of this calibre on the way as well as picking the best of lower league 1/league 2 talent
I think a bit of reality has hit home, both at the club and as a fan base.
Denying there were major fuck ups over the last 18 months does no one any good.
You don't need to be captain hindsight to know a center half and a more suitable striker in January 21 would have probably got us in the play offs. Nor that the two windows since then have taken us backwards.
Now let's take that on the chin, it could have been much worse, it nearly was.
If lessons have been learnt (it's still if imo) and we now do it right, it may well take 18 months. I might take longer. But we have appointed an excellent manager (you could argue that his 3 predecessors were as well) and the early signs are we are giving him the tools to do his job. That's a change. The rhetoric has changed.
Blind faith? No. Evidence based assessment. So far so good, but there is a hell of a lot of work to do, Thomas's money to spend, and my life to waste.
Evidence based assessment?
We have appointed a League 2 manager. So far, we have signed two League 2 players ... one of which finished in 18th place.
It may work out. It may not. But it's hardly a proven recipe for delivering a Championship-ready (not Premier League-ready) team.
I remain as optimistic as the next fan ... but don't kid yourself. It's optimism, not evidence-based.
Good signing for Sheff Wed today, getting Will Vaulks from Cardiff. Very good player at this level.
Saw this and it did feel like a bit of a reality check after getting excited the last 2 days. I like our 2 signings so far but just a reminder this league is going to be difficult to even get top 6 in. Hopefully we have signings of this calibre on the way as well as picking the best of lower league 1/league 2 talent
I think a bit of reality has hit home, both at the club and as a fan base.
Denying there were major fuck ups over the last 18 months does no one any good.
You don't need to be captain hindsight to know a center half and a more suitable striker in January 21 would have probably got us in the play offs. Nor that the two windows since then have taken us backwards.
Now let's take that on the chin, it could have been much worse, it nearly was.
If lessons have been learnt (it's still if imo) and we now do it right, it may well take 18 months. I might take longer. But we have appointed an excellent manager (you could argue that his 3 predecessors were as well) and the early signs are we are giving him the tools to do his job. That's a change. The rhetoric has changed.
Blind faith? No. Evidence based assessment. So far so good, but there is a hell of a lot of work to do, Thomas's money to spend, and my life to waste.
Evidence based assessment?
We have appointed a League 2 manager. So far, we have signed two League 2 players ... one of which finished in 18th place.
It may work out. It may not. But it's hardly a proven recipe for delivering a Championship-ready (not Premier League-ready) team.
I remain as optimistic as the next fan ... but don't kid yourself. It's optimism, not evidence-based.
Did you miss the next line, that there is a hell of a lot to do?
Garner is a fantastic coach, if you look I mentioned him when it was the "who would you like next" stage of the thread.
Evidence based, yes one is obviously a player the manager knows and wants, that hasn't been the case for a while. The other is a player the manager would have watched live at least twice last season, plus the half dozen games he watched prepping for those games.
Is it perfect? Of course its not. Maybe not giant strides, they could come later and will be judged accordingly, but certainly baby steps.
Good signing for Sheff Wed today, getting Will Vaulks from Cardiff. Very good player at this level.
Saw this and it did feel like a bit of a reality check after getting excited the last 2 days. I like our 2 signings so far but just a reminder this league is going to be difficult to even get top 6 in. Hopefully we have signings of this calibre on the way as well as picking the best of lower league 1/league 2 talent
I think a bit of reality has hit home, both at the club and as a fan base.
Denying there were major fuck ups over the last 18 months does no one any good.
You don't need to be captain hindsight to know a center half and a more suitable striker in January 21 would have probably got us in the play offs. Nor that the two windows since then have taken us backwards.
Now let's take that on the chin, it could have been much worse, it nearly was.
If lessons have been learnt (it's still if imo) and we now do it right, it may well take 18 months. I might take longer. But we have appointed an excellent manager (you could argue that his 3 predecessors were as well) and the early signs are we are giving him the tools to do his job. That's a change. The rhetoric has changed.
Blind faith? No. Evidence based assessment. So far so good, but there is a hell of a lot of work to do, Thomas's money to spend, and my life to waste.
Evidence based assessment?
We have appointed a League 2 manager. So far, we have signed two League 2 players ... one of which finished in 18th place.
It may work out. It may not. But it's hardly a proven recipe for delivering a Championship-ready (not Premier League-ready) team.
I remain as optimistic as the next fan ... but don't kid yourself. It's optimism, not evidence-based.
Did you miss the next line, that there is a hell of a lot to do?
Garner is a fantastic coach, if you look I mentioned him when it was the "who would you like next" stage of the thread.
Evidence based, yes one is obviously a player the manager knows and wants, that hasn't been the case for a while. The other is a player the manager would have watched live at least twice last season, plus the half dozen games he watched prepping for those games.
Is it perfect? Of course its not. Maybe not giant strides, they could come later and will be judged accordingly, but certainly baby steps.
Good signing for Sheff Wed today, getting Will Vaulks from Cardiff. Very good player at this level.
Saw this and it did feel like a bit of a reality check after getting excited the last 2 days. I like our 2 signings so far but just a reminder this league is going to be difficult to even get top 6 in. Hopefully we have signings of this calibre on the way as well as picking the best of lower league 1/league 2 talent
It's Wednesday who need the reality check! More than £125m in debt. For context, Derby was about half that when they went into admin IIRC. Living way beyond their means and have been for years. I wouldn't want to have their problems. At least we have a responsible owner trying to look out for our future.
Good signing for Sheff Wed today, getting Will Vaulks from Cardiff. Very good player at this level.
Saw this and it did feel like a bit of a reality check after getting excited the last 2 days. I like our 2 signings so far but just a reminder this league is going to be difficult to even get top 6 in. Hopefully we have signings of this calibre on the way as well as picking the best of lower league 1/league 2 talent
I think a bit of reality has hit home, both at the club and as a fan base.
Denying there were major fuck ups over the last 18 months does no one any good.
You don't need to be captain hindsight to know a center half and a more suitable striker in January 21 would have probably got us in the play offs. Nor that the two windows since then have taken us backwards.
Now let's take that on the chin, it could have been much worse, it nearly was.
If lessons have been learnt (it's still if imo) and we now do it right, it may well take 18 months. I might take longer. But we have appointed an excellent manager (you could argue that his 3 predecessors were as well) and the early signs are we are giving him the tools to do his job. That's a change. The rhetoric has changed.
Blind faith? No. Evidence based assessment. So far so good, but there is a hell of a lot of work to do, Thomas's money to spend, and my life to waste.
Evidence based assessment?
We have appointed a League 2 manager. So far, we have signed two League 2 players ... one of which finished in 18th place.
It may work out. It may not. But it's hardly a proven recipe for delivering a Championship-ready (not Premier League-ready) team.
I remain as optimistic as the next fan ... but don't kid yourself. It's optimism, not evidence-based.
Did you miss the next line, that there is a hell of a lot to do?
Garner is a fantastic coach, if you look I mentioned him when it was the "who would you like next" stage of the thread.
Evidence based, yes one is obviously a player the manager knows and wants, that hasn't been the case for a while. The other is a player the manager would have watched live at least twice last season, plus the half dozen games he watched prepping for those games.
Is it perfect? Of course its not. Maybe not giant strides, they could come later and will be judged accordingly, but certainly baby steps.
So, that's optimism then.
Read and respond to the whole post.
Like I said it will take time, because of previous cock ups. Its not perfect, but there are signs it's moving in the right direction aren't there?
One positive is at the moment league 1 looks a bit weaker than last year, especially if Derby can't sort out their problems. Teams that did well last season are having players pinched, MK Dons (Darling, Twine), Oxford (McNally, Brannagan), Wycombe (Stewart), Portsmouth (Curtis, Harness) Plymouth (Camara) all look likely to lose key players
Good signing for Sheff Wed today, getting Will Vaulks from Cardiff. Very good player at this level.
Saw this and it did feel like a bit of a reality check after getting excited the last 2 days. I like our 2 signings so far but just a reminder this league is going to be difficult to even get top 6 in. Hopefully we have signings of this calibre on the way as well as picking the best of lower league 1/league 2 talent
I think a bit of reality has hit home, both at the club and as a fan base.
Denying there were major fuck ups over the last 18 months does no one any good.
You don't need to be captain hindsight to know a center half and a more suitable striker in January 21 would have probably got us in the play offs. Nor that the two windows since then have taken us backwards.
Now let's take that on the chin, it could have been much worse, it nearly was.
If lessons have been learnt (it's still if imo) and we now do it right, it may well take 18 months. I might take longer. But we have appointed an excellent manager (you could argue that his 3 predecessors were as well) and the early signs are we are giving him the tools to do his job. That's a change. The rhetoric has changed.
Blind faith? No. Evidence based assessment. So far so good, but there is a hell of a lot of work to do, Thomas's money to spend, and my life to waste.
Evidence based assessment?
We have appointed a League 2 manager. So far, we have signed two League 2 players ... one of which finished in 18th place.
It may work out. It may not. But it's hardly a proven recipe for delivering a Championship-ready (not Premier League-ready) team.
I remain as optimistic as the next fan ... but don't kid yourself. It's optimism, not evidence-based.
Did you miss the next line, that there is a hell of a lot to do?
Garner is a fantastic coach, if you look I mentioned him when it was the "who would you like next" stage of the thread.
Evidence based, yes one is obviously a player the manager knows and wants, that hasn't been the case for a while. The other is a player the manager would have watched live at least twice last season, plus the half dozen games he watched prepping for those games.
Is it perfect? Of course its not. Maybe not giant strides, they could come later and will be judged accordingly, but certainly baby steps.
So, that's optimism then.
Read and respond to the whole post.
Like I said it will take time, because of previous cock ups. Its not perfect, but there are signs it's moving in the right direction aren't there?
No where near the finished article, are we?
Agree on both?
Let's not labour it.
'Evidence-based' is what I'm objecting to.
No problem with optimism. Just don't pretend that it's based on fact.
Good signing for Sheff Wed today, getting Will Vaulks from Cardiff. Very good player at this level.
Saw this and it did feel like a bit of a reality check after getting excited the last 2 days. I like our 2 signings so far but just a reminder this league is going to be difficult to even get top 6 in. Hopefully we have signings of this calibre on the way as well as picking the best of lower league 1/league 2 talent
It's Wednesday who need the reality check! More than £125m in debt. For context, Derby was about half that when they went into admin IIRC. Living way beyond their means and have been for years. I wouldn't want to have their problems. At least we have a responsible owner trying to look out for our future.
At our current rate we would be there in 8-10 years but have a responsible owner looking out for our future. Wednesday have spaffed a lot of money but football finances outside the PL are broken so for larger non PL clubs they are all beholdent to their benefactors.
Good signing for Sheff Wed today, getting Will Vaulks from Cardiff. Very good player at this level.
Saw this and it did feel like a bit of a reality check after getting excited the last 2 days. I like our 2 signings so far but just a reminder this league is going to be difficult to even get top 6 in. Hopefully we have signings of this calibre on the way as well as picking the best of lower league 1/league 2 talent
I think a bit of reality has hit home, both at the club and as a fan base.
Denying there were major fuck ups over the last 18 months does no one any good.
You don't need to be captain hindsight to know a center half and a more suitable striker in January 21 would have probably got us in the play offs. Nor that the two windows since then have taken us backwards.
Now let's take that on the chin, it could have been much worse, it nearly was.
If lessons have been learnt (it's still if imo) and we now do it right, it may well take 18 months. I might take longer. But we have appointed an excellent manager (you could argue that his 3 predecessors were as well) and the early signs are we are giving him the tools to do his job. That's a change. The rhetoric has changed.
Blind faith? No. Evidence based assessment. So far so good, but there is a hell of a lot of work to do, Thomas's money to spend, and my life to waste.
Evidence based assessment?
We have appointed a League 2 manager. So far, we have signed two League 2 players ... one of which finished in 18th place.
It may work out. It may not. But it's hardly a proven recipe for delivering a Championship-ready (not Premier League-ready) team.
I remain as optimistic as the next fan ... but don't kid yourself. It's optimism, not evidence-based.
Where a signing's previous team finished in the table seems irrelevant to me. Are they supposed to stop all the goals going in, pass through the middle, go up the other end and score them as well? It's one player.
We finished 13th, what does that say about George Dobson this season... It says he was a great performer in a shit team. But if we were a club in the division above, signing him, there'd be people moaning that we were signing someone who finished 13th in the league below.
And complaints about which league signings are playing in. Unless academy staff and scouts have absolutely perfected every decision at every club in the country, there will be good players up and down the ladder. Some will prove too good for their division and move up, some will prove not good enough and move down. That's just the way it works.
We know that. We've had the worst possible crap from the Championship and absolute gems from the league below and vice versa. It's football, it's about the player.
Good signing for Sheff Wed today, getting Will Vaulks from Cardiff. Very good player at this level.
Saw this and it did feel like a bit of a reality check after getting excited the last 2 days. I like our 2 signings so far but just a reminder this league is going to be difficult to even get top 6 in. Hopefully we have signings of this calibre on the way as well as picking the best of lower league 1/league 2 talent
I think a bit of reality has hit home, both at the club and as a fan base.
Denying there were major fuck ups over the last 18 months does no one any good.
You don't need to be captain hindsight to know a center half and a more suitable striker in January 21 would have probably got us in the play offs. Nor that the two windows since then have taken us backwards.
Now let's take that on the chin, it could have been much worse, it nearly was.
If lessons have been learnt (it's still if imo) and we now do it right, it may well take 18 months. I might take longer. But we have appointed an excellent manager (you could argue that his 3 predecessors were as well) and the early signs are we are giving him the tools to do his job. That's a change. The rhetoric has changed.
Blind faith? No. Evidence based assessment. So far so good, but there is a hell of a lot of work to do, Thomas's money to spend, and my life to waste.
Evidence based assessment?
We have appointed a League 2 manager. So far, we have signed two League 2 players ... one of which finished in 18th place.
It may work out. It may not. But it's hardly a proven recipe for delivering a Championship-ready (not Premier League-ready) team.
I remain as optimistic as the next fan ... but don't kid yourself. It's optimism, not evidence-based.
Did you miss the next line, that there is a hell of a lot to do?
Garner is a fantastic coach, if you look I mentioned him when it was the "who would you like next" stage of the thread.
Evidence based, yes one is obviously a player the manager knows and wants, that hasn't been the case for a while. The other is a player the manager would have watched live at least twice last season, plus the half dozen games he watched prepping for those games.
Is it perfect? Of course its not. Maybe not giant strides, they could come later and will be judged accordingly, but certainly baby steps.
So, that's optimism then.
Read and respond to the whole post.
Like I said it will take time, because of previous cock ups. Its not perfect, but there are signs it's moving in the right direction aren't there?
No where near the finished article, are we?
Agree on both?
Let's not labour it.
'Evidence-based' is what I'm objecting to.
No problem with optimism. Just don't pretend that it's based on fact.
Its based on the fact Garner is an excellent coach, happy to discuss that point off line to save boring everyone else, and he obviously has a stronger influence on signings than his immediate predecessors.
Like I said baby steps.
Next I'll have @Redrobo accusing me of being negative!
Sounds as if Thomas is staying put while players go to Spain as plenty going on, has extended his stay by 10 days.We're due to play a couple of matches
Do you know how many players are likely to pick up long term injuries in those matches?
Good signing for Sheff Wed today, getting Will Vaulks from Cardiff. Very good player at this level.
Saw this and it did feel like a bit of a reality check after getting excited the last 2 days. I like our 2 signings so far but just a reminder this league is going to be difficult to even get top 6 in. Hopefully we have signings of this calibre on the way as well as picking the best of lower league 1/league 2 talent
I think a bit of reality has hit home, both at the club and as a fan base.
Denying there were major fuck ups over the last 18 months does no one any good.
You don't need to be captain hindsight to know a center half and a more suitable striker in January 21 would have probably got us in the play offs. Nor that the two windows since then have taken us backwards.
Now let's take that on the chin, it could have been much worse, it nearly was.
If lessons have been learnt (it's still if imo) and we now do it right, it may well take 18 months. I might take longer. But we have appointed an excellent manager (you could argue that his 3 predecessors were as well) and the early signs are we are giving him the tools to do his job. That's a change. The rhetoric has changed.
Blind faith? No. Evidence based assessment. So far so good, but there is a hell of a lot of work to do, Thomas's money to spend, and my life to waste.
Evidence based assessment?
We have appointed a League 2 manager. So far, we have signed two League 2 players ... one of which finished in 18th place.
It may work out. It may not. But it's hardly a proven recipe for delivering a Championship-ready (not Premier League-ready) team.
I remain as optimistic as the next fan ... but don't kid yourself. It's optimism, not evidence-based.
Don't give a shit if the team is Championship ready or not, all about getting out of this division first.
Good signing for Sheff Wed today, getting Will Vaulks from Cardiff. Very good player at this level.
Saw this and it did feel like a bit of a reality check after getting excited the last 2 days. I like our 2 signings so far but just a reminder this league is going to be difficult to even get top 6 in. Hopefully we have signings of this calibre on the way as well as picking the best of lower league 1/league 2 talent
I think a bit of reality has hit home, both at the club and as a fan base.
Denying there were major fuck ups over the last 18 months does no one any good.
You don't need to be captain hindsight to know a center half and a more suitable striker in January 21 would have probably got us in the play offs. Nor that the two windows since then have taken us backwards.
Now let's take that on the chin, it could have been much worse, it nearly was.
If lessons have been learnt (it's still if imo) and we now do it right, it may well take 18 months. I might take longer. But we have appointed an excellent manager (you could argue that his 3 predecessors were as well) and the early signs are we are giving him the tools to do his job. That's a change. The rhetoric has changed.
Blind faith? No. Evidence based assessment. So far so good, but there is a hell of a lot of work to do, Thomas's money to spend, and my life to waste.
Evidence based assessment?
We have appointed a League 2 manager. So far, we have signed two League 2 players ... one of which finished in 18th place.
It may work out. It may not. But it's hardly a proven recipe for delivering a Championship-ready (not Premier League-ready) team.
I remain as optimistic as the next fan ... but don't kid yourself. It's optimism, not evidence-based.
Where a signing's previous team finished in the table seems irrelevant to me. Are they supposed to stop all the goals going in, pass through the middle, go up the other end and score them as well? It's one player.
We finished 13th, what does that say about George Dobson this season... It says he was a great performer in a shit team. But if we were a club in the division above, signing him, there'd be people moaning that we were signing someone who finished 13th in the league below.
And complaints about which league signings are playing in. Unless academy staff and scouts have absolutely perfected every decision at every club in the country, there will be good players up and down the ladder. Some will prove too good for their division and move up, some will prove not good enough and move down. That's just the way it works.
We know that. We've had the worst possible crap from the Championship and absolute gems from the league below. It's football, it's about the player, the league doesn't have much to do with anything.
Correct.
But ... statistically, players in a lower League are not as good as players in higher League. There will be exceptions .. and, of course, a team's final finishing place is not simply down to one player.
On balance, if I was looking at getting out of the current Division, I would prefer to sign players (and a Manager) from a League or two above ... and even from the current League ... rather than from a League below.
Good signing for Sheff Wed today, getting Will Vaulks from Cardiff. Very good player at this level.
Saw this and it did feel like a bit of a reality check after getting excited the last 2 days. I like our 2 signings so far but just a reminder this league is going to be difficult to even get top 6 in. Hopefully we have signings of this calibre on the way as well as picking the best of lower league 1/league 2 talent
I think a bit of reality has hit home, both at the club and as a fan base.
Denying there were major fuck ups over the last 18 months does no one any good.
You don't need to be captain hindsight to know a center half and a more suitable striker in January 21 would have probably got us in the play offs. Nor that the two windows since then have taken us backwards.
Now let's take that on the chin, it could have been much worse, it nearly was.
If lessons have been learnt (it's still if imo) and we now do it right, it may well take 18 months. I might take longer. But we have appointed an excellent manager (you could argue that his 3 predecessors were as well) and the early signs are we are giving him the tools to do his job. That's a change. The rhetoric has changed.
Blind faith? No. Evidence based assessment. So far so good, but there is a hell of a lot of work to do, Thomas's money to spend, and my life to waste.
Evidence based assessment?
We have appointed a League 2 manager. So far, we have signed two League 2 players ... one of which finished in 18th place.
It may work out. It may not. But it's hardly a proven recipe for delivering a Championship-ready (not Premier League-ready) team.
I remain as optimistic as the next fan ... but don't kid yourself. It's optimism, not evidence-based.
Where a signing's previous team finished in the table seems irrelevant to me. Are they supposed to stop all the goals going in, pass through the middle, go up the other end and score them as well? It's one player.
We finished 13th, what does that say about George Dobson this season... It says he was a great performer in a shit team. But if we were a club in the division above, signing him, there'd be people moaning that we were signing someone who finished 13th in the league below.
And complaints about which league signings are playing in. Unless academy staff and scouts have absolutely perfected every decision at every club in the country, there will be good players up and down the ladder. Some will prove too good for their division and move up, some will prove not good enough and move down. That's just the way it works.
We know that. We've had the worst possible crap from the Championship and absolute gems from the league below. It's football, it's about the player, the league doesn't have much to do with anything.
Correct.
But ... statistically, players in a lower League are not as good as players in higher League. There will be exceptions .. and, of course, a team's final finishing place is not simply down to one player.
On balance, if I was looking at getting out of the current Division, I would prefer to sign players (and a Manager) from a League or two above ... and even from the current League ... rather than from a League below.
Wouldn't you?
A manager from a two leagues above 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Who you expecting Klopp, Pep, Tuchel?
Argument null and void, I'll go back to arguing with the pigeon, I mean Colin.
Good signing for Sheff Wed today, getting Will Vaulks from Cardiff. Very good player at this level.
Saw this and it did feel like a bit of a reality check after getting excited the last 2 days. I like our 2 signings so far but just a reminder this league is going to be difficult to even get top 6 in. Hopefully we have signings of this calibre on the way as well as picking the best of lower league 1/league 2 talent
I think a bit of reality has hit home, both at the club and as a fan base.
Denying there were major fuck ups over the last 18 months does no one any good.
You don't need to be captain hindsight to know a center half and a more suitable striker in January 21 would have probably got us in the play offs. Nor that the two windows since then have taken us backwards.
Now let's take that on the chin, it could have been much worse, it nearly was.
If lessons have been learnt (it's still if imo) and we now do it right, it may well take 18 months. I might take longer. But we have appointed an excellent manager (you could argue that his 3 predecessors were as well) and the early signs are we are giving him the tools to do his job. That's a change. The rhetoric has changed.
Blind faith? No. Evidence based assessment. So far so good, but there is a hell of a lot of work to do, Thomas's money to spend, and my life to waste.
Evidence based assessment?
We have appointed a League 2 manager. So far, we have signed two League 2 players ... one of which finished in 18th place.
It may work out. It may not. But it's hardly a proven recipe for delivering a Championship-ready (not Premier League-ready) team.
I remain as optimistic as the next fan ... but don't kid yourself. It's optimism, not evidence-based.
Where a signing's previous team finished in the table seems irrelevant to me. Are they supposed to stop all the goals going in, pass through the middle, go up the other end and score them as well? It's one player.
We finished 13th, what does that say about George Dobson this season... It says he was a great performer in a shit team. But if we were a club in the division above, signing him, there'd be people moaning that we were signing someone who finished 13th in the league below.
And complaints about which league signings are playing in. Unless academy staff and scouts have absolutely perfected every decision at every club in the country, there will be good players up and down the ladder. Some will prove too good for their division and move up, some will prove not good enough and move down. That's just the way it works.
We know that. We've had the worst possible crap from the Championship and absolute gems from the league below. It's football, it's about the player, the league doesn't have much to do with anything.
Correct.
But ... statistically, players in a lower League are not as good as players in higher League. There will be exceptions .. and, of course, a team's final finishing place is not simply down to one player.
On balance, if I was looking at getting out of the current Division, I would prefer to sign players (and a Manager) from a League or two above ... and even from the current League ... rather than from a League below.
Good signing for Sheff Wed today, getting Will Vaulks from Cardiff. Very good player at this level.
Saw this and it did feel like a bit of a reality check after getting excited the last 2 days. I like our 2 signings so far but just a reminder this league is going to be difficult to even get top 6 in. Hopefully we have signings of this calibre on the way as well as picking the best of lower league 1/league 2 talent
I think a bit of reality has hit home, both at the club and as a fan base.
Denying there were major fuck ups over the last 18 months does no one any good.
You don't need to be captain hindsight to know a center half and a more suitable striker in January 21 would have probably got us in the play offs. Nor that the two windows since then have taken us backwards.
Now let's take that on the chin, it could have been much worse, it nearly was.
If lessons have been learnt (it's still if imo) and we now do it right, it may well take 18 months. I might take longer. But we have appointed an excellent manager (you could argue that his 3 predecessors were as well) and the early signs are we are giving him the tools to do his job. That's a change. The rhetoric has changed.
Blind faith? No. Evidence based assessment. So far so good, but there is a hell of a lot of work to do, Thomas's money to spend, and my life to waste.
Evidence based assessment?
We have appointed a League 2 manager. So far, we have signed two League 2 players ... one of which finished in 18th place.
It may work out. It may not. But it's hardly a proven recipe for delivering a Championship-ready (not Premier League-ready) team.
I remain as optimistic as the next fan ... but don't kid yourself. It's optimism, not evidence-based.
Where a signing's previous team finished in the table seems irrelevant to me. Are they supposed to stop all the goals going in, pass through the middle, go up the other end and score them as well? It's one player.
We finished 13th, what does that say about George Dobson this season... It says he was a great performer in a shit team. But if we were a club in the division above, signing him, there'd be people moaning that we were signing someone who finished 13th in the league below.
And complaints about which league signings are playing in. Unless academy staff and scouts have absolutely perfected every decision at every club in the country, there will be good players up and down the ladder. Some will prove too good for their division and move up, some will prove not good enough and move down. That's just the way it works.
We know that. We've had the worst possible crap from the Championship and absolute gems from the league below. It's football, it's about the player, the league doesn't have much to do with anything.
Correct.
But ... statistically, players in a lower League are not as good as players in higher League. There will be exceptions .. and, of course, a team's final finishing place is not simply down to one player.
On balance, if I was looking at getting out of the current Division, I would prefer to sign players (and a Manager) from a League or two above ... and even from the current League ... rather than from a League below.
Good signing for Sheff Wed today, getting Will Vaulks from Cardiff. Very good player at this level.
Saw this and it did feel like a bit of a reality check after getting excited the last 2 days. I like our 2 signings so far but just a reminder this league is going to be difficult to even get top 6 in. Hopefully we have signings of this calibre on the way as well as picking the best of lower league 1/league 2 talent
I think a bit of reality has hit home, both at the club and as a fan base.
Denying there were major fuck ups over the last 18 months does no one any good.
You don't need to be captain hindsight to know a center half and a more suitable striker in January 21 would have probably got us in the play offs. Nor that the two windows since then have taken us backwards.
Now let's take that on the chin, it could have been much worse, it nearly was.
If lessons have been learnt (it's still if imo) and we now do it right, it may well take 18 months. I might take longer. But we have appointed an excellent manager (you could argue that his 3 predecessors were as well) and the early signs are we are giving him the tools to do his job. That's a change. The rhetoric has changed.
Blind faith? No. Evidence based assessment. So far so good, but there is a hell of a lot of work to do, Thomas's money to spend, and my life to waste.
Evidence based assessment?
We have appointed a League 2 manager. So far, we have signed two League 2 players ... one of which finished in 18th place.
It may work out. It may not. But it's hardly a proven recipe for delivering a Championship-ready (not Premier League-ready) team.
I remain as optimistic as the next fan ... but don't kid yourself. It's optimism, not evidence-based.
Agreed. Two reasonably promising signings, but that's all.
Of course splashing the cash can fail, as with Ipswich, but Wigan last summer brought in a team of established upper end L1 players and won the title
Good signing for Sheff Wed today, getting Will Vaulks from Cardiff. Very good player at this level.
Saw this and it did feel like a bit of a reality check after getting excited the last 2 days. I like our 2 signings so far but just a reminder this league is going to be difficult to even get top 6 in. Hopefully we have signings of this calibre on the way as well as picking the best of lower league 1/league 2 talent
I think a bit of reality has hit home, both at the club and as a fan base.
Denying there were major fuck ups over the last 18 months does no one any good.
You don't need to be captain hindsight to know a center half and a more suitable striker in January 21 would have probably got us in the play offs. Nor that the two windows since then have taken us backwards.
Now let's take that on the chin, it could have been much worse, it nearly was.
If lessons have been learnt (it's still if imo) and we now do it right, it may well take 18 months. I might take longer. But we have appointed an excellent manager (you could argue that his 3 predecessors were as well) and the early signs are we are giving him the tools to do his job. That's a change. The rhetoric has changed.
Blind faith? No. Evidence based assessment. So far so good, but there is a hell of a lot of work to do, Thomas's money to spend, and my life to waste.
Evidence based assessment?
We have appointed a League 2 manager. So far, we have signed two League 2 players ... one of which finished in 18th place.
It may work out. It may not. But it's hardly a proven recipe for delivering a Championship-ready (not Premier League-ready) team.
I remain as optimistic as the next fan ... but don't kid yourself. It's optimism, not evidence-based.
Where a signing's previous team finished in the table seems irrelevant to me. Are they supposed to stop all the goals going in, pass through the middle, go up the other end and score them as well? It's one player.
We finished 13th, what does that say about George Dobson this season... It says he was a great performer in a shit team. But if we were a club in the division above, signing him, there'd be people moaning that we were signing someone who finished 13th in the league below.
And complaints about which league signings are playing in. Unless academy staff and scouts have absolutely perfected every decision at every club in the country, there will be good players up and down the ladder. Some will prove too good for their division and move up, some will prove not good enough and move down. That's just the way it works.
We know that. We've had the worst possible crap from the Championship and absolute gems from the league below. It's football, it's about the player, the league doesn't have much to do with anything.
Correct.
But ... statistically, players in a lower League are not as good as players in higher League. There will be exceptions .. and, of course, a team's final finishing place is not simply down to one player.
On balance, if I was looking at getting out of the current Division, I would prefer to sign players (and a Manager) from a League or two above ... and even from the current League ... rather than from a League below.
Wouldn't you?
I think that's a bit unrealistic. And I'd hope we sign the hungriest players who best fit the system regardless of where they're playing.
Good signing for Sheff Wed today, getting Will Vaulks from Cardiff. Very good player at this level.
Saw this and it did feel like a bit of a reality check after getting excited the last 2 days. I like our 2 signings so far but just a reminder this league is going to be difficult to even get top 6 in. Hopefully we have signings of this calibre on the way as well as picking the best of lower league 1/league 2 talent
I think a bit of reality has hit home, both at the club and as a fan base.
Denying there were major fuck ups over the last 18 months does no one any good.
You don't need to be captain hindsight to know a center half and a more suitable striker in January 21 would have probably got us in the play offs. Nor that the two windows since then have taken us backwards.
Now let's take that on the chin, it could have been much worse, it nearly was.
If lessons have been learnt (it's still if imo) and we now do it right, it may well take 18 months. I might take longer. But we have appointed an excellent manager (you could argue that his 3 predecessors were as well) and the early signs are we are giving him the tools to do his job. That's a change. The rhetoric has changed.
Blind faith? No. Evidence based assessment. So far so good, but there is a hell of a lot of work to do, Thomas's money to spend, and my life to waste.
Evidence based assessment?
We have appointed a League 2 manager. So far, we have signed two League 2 players ... one of which finished in 18th place.
It may work out. It may not. But it's hardly a proven recipe for delivering a Championship-ready (not Premier League-ready) team.
I remain as optimistic as the next fan ... but don't kid yourself. It's optimism, not evidence-based.
Where a signing's previous team finished in the table seems irrelevant to me. Are they supposed to stop all the goals going in, pass through the middle, go up the other end and score them as well? It's one player.
We finished 13th, what does that say about George Dobson this season... It says he was a great performer in a shit team. But if we were a club in the division above, signing him, there'd be people moaning that we were signing someone who finished 13th in the league below.
And complaints about which league signings are playing in. Unless academy staff and scouts have absolutely perfected every decision at every club in the country, there will be good players up and down the ladder. Some will prove too good for their division and move up, some will prove not good enough and move down. That's just the way it works.
We know that. We've had the worst possible crap from the Championship and absolute gems from the league below. It's football, it's about the player, the league doesn't have much to do with anything.
Correct.
But ... statistically, players in a lower League are not as good as players in higher League. There will be exceptions .. and, of course, a team's final finishing place is not simply down to one player.
On balance, if I was looking at getting out of the current Division, I would prefer to sign players (and a Manager) from a League or two above ... and even from the current League ... rather than from a League below.
Wouldn't you?
Well not necessarily. Players we signed from leagues above us include such glittering talents as Watson, Gunter and Arter whereas the likes of CBT (one of few bright spots last time out) show that there's unpolished gems still out there in League 2.
If a player drops from a higher level for lesser pay, there's normally a good reason for it and it's not always to the benefit of the team they sign for.
If every player we sign is a league two freebie then yes there's concerns there. But I doubt that will be the case.
Good signing for Sheff Wed today, getting Will Vaulks from Cardiff. Very good player at this level.
Saw this and it did feel like a bit of a reality check after getting excited the last 2 days. I like our 2 signings so far but just a reminder this league is going to be difficult to even get top 6 in. Hopefully we have signings of this calibre on the way as well as picking the best of lower league 1/league 2 talent
I think a bit of reality has hit home, both at the club and as a fan base.
Denying there were major fuck ups over the last 18 months does no one any good.
You don't need to be captain hindsight to know a center half and a more suitable striker in January 21 would have probably got us in the play offs. Nor that the two windows since then have taken us backwards.
Now let's take that on the chin, it could have been much worse, it nearly was.
If lessons have been learnt (it's still if imo) and we now do it right, it may well take 18 months. I might take longer. But we have appointed an excellent manager (you could argue that his 3 predecessors were as well) and the early signs are we are giving him the tools to do his job. That's a change. The rhetoric has changed.
Blind faith? No. Evidence based assessment. So far so good, but there is a hell of a lot of work to do, Thomas's money to spend, and my life to waste.
Evidence based assessment?
We have appointed a League 2 manager. So far, we have signed two League 2 players ... one of which finished in 18th place.
It may work out. It may not. But it's hardly a proven recipe for delivering a Championship-ready (not Premier League-ready) team.
I remain as optimistic as the next fan ... but don't kid yourself. It's optimism, not evidence-based.
Where a signing's previous team finished in the table seems irrelevant to me. Are they supposed to stop all the goals going in, pass through the middle, go up the other end and score them as well? It's one player.
We finished 13th, what does that say about George Dobson this season... It says he was a great performer in a shit team. But if we were a club in the division above, signing him, there'd be people moaning that we were signing someone who finished 13th in the league below.
And complaints about which league signings are playing in. Unless academy staff and scouts have absolutely perfected every decision at every club in the country, there will be good players up and down the ladder. Some will prove too good for their division and move up, some will prove not good enough and move down. That's just the way it works.
We know that. We've had the worst possible crap from the Championship and absolute gems from the league below. It's football, it's about the player, the league doesn't have much to do with anything.
Correct.
But ... statistically, players in a lower League are not as good as players in higher League. There will be exceptions .. and, of course, a team's final finishing place is not simply down to one player.
On balance, if I was looking at getting out of the current Division, I would prefer to sign players (and a Manager) from a League or two above ... and even from the current League ... rather than from a League below.
Wouldn't you?
Well not necessarily. Players we signed from leagues above us include such glittering talents as Watson, Gunter and Arter whereas the likes of CBT (one of few bright spots last time out) show that there's unpolished gems still out there in League 2.
If a player drops from a higher level for lesser pay, there's normally a good reason for it and it's not always to the benefit of the team they sign for.
If every player we sign is a league two freebie then yes there's concerns there. But I doubt that will be the case.
Yeah if you look at our recruitment since Sandgaard has signed, we've signed loads of players from the league above who turned out to be flops. In fact, in our first season back in League 1 we could have easily fielded the following XI: Amos Gunter Inniss Famewo Purrington Watson Pratley Shinnie Williams Bogle Smyth
Every single one of those players played in a higher league the season above (admittedly 4 were relegated and 2 were out on loan but still). Gunter and Watson in particular were truly awful signings and both had been reasonable in the league above.
Good signing for Sheff Wed today, getting Will Vaulks from Cardiff. Very good player at this level.
Saw this and it did feel like a bit of a reality check after getting excited the last 2 days. I like our 2 signings so far but just a reminder this league is going to be difficult to even get top 6 in. Hopefully we have signings of this calibre on the way as well as picking the best of lower league 1/league 2 talent
I think a bit of reality has hit home, both at the club and as a fan base.
Denying there were major fuck ups over the last 18 months does no one any good.
You don't need to be captain hindsight to know a center half and a more suitable striker in January 21 would have probably got us in the play offs. Nor that the two windows since then have taken us backwards.
Now let's take that on the chin, it could have been much worse, it nearly was.
If lessons have been learnt (it's still if imo) and we now do it right, it may well take 18 months. I might take longer. But we have appointed an excellent manager (you could argue that his 3 predecessors were as well) and the early signs are we are giving him the tools to do his job. That's a change. The rhetoric has changed.
Blind faith? No. Evidence based assessment. So far so good, but there is a hell of a lot of work to do, Thomas's money to spend, and my life to waste.
Evidence based assessment?
We have appointed a League 2 manager. So far, we have signed two League 2 players ... one of which finished in 18th place.
It may work out. It may not. But it's hardly a proven recipe for delivering a Championship-ready (not Premier League-ready) team.
I remain as optimistic as the next fan ... but don't kid yourself. It's optimism, not evidence-based.
Did you miss the next line, that there is a hell of a lot to do?
Garner is a fantastic coach, if you look I mentioned him when it was the "who would you like next" stage of the thread.
Evidence based, yes one is obviously a player the manager knows and wants, that hasn't been the case for a while. The other is a player the manager would have watched live at least twice last season, plus the half dozen games he watched prepping for those games.
Is it perfect? Of course its not. Maybe not giant strides, they could come later and will be judged accordingly, but certainly baby steps.
So, that's optimism then.
Read and respond to the whole post.
Like I said it will take time, because of previous cock ups. Its not perfect, but there are signs it's moving in the right direction aren't there?
No where near the finished article, are we?
Agree on both?
Let's not labour it.
'Evidence-based' is what I'm objecting to.
No problem with optimism. Just don't pretend that it's based on fact.
Its based on the fact Garner is an excellent coach, happy to discuss that point off line to save boring everyone else, and he obviously has a stronger influence on signings than his immediate predecessors.
Like I said baby steps.
Next I'll have @Redrobo accusing me of being negative!
I felt I was defending myself for being positive!
I was positive that the changes to the recruitment team had been made and would be better this window. I also said that I thought that we would sign at least two players this week.
I also said I found the transfer window exciting and that I was confident we would build a team to challenge for a top six place next season.
I think I also said that I felt sorry for you having all that negativity. I am seriously pleased that you feel that we are at least taking baby steps forward.
Bloody huge strides have been everywhere across the Club IMO and I think there is a real positivity for what feels a new and exciting fresh start.
Yeah, better stop looking upwards. That road is littered with Watsons and Gunters.
And Bieliks, and Cullens and Gallaghers.
For fuck's sake ... we aren't getting out of this League (and beyond) with League 2 'maybes'.
Not exclusively no. But assuming that every single signing is going to be a "League 2 maybe" is pessimism for the sake of it with no actual evidence.
We've signed two players so far. There are more to come, and some of those will be on loan as Bielik, Cullen and Gallagher all were.
Assuming the worst is no more "realistic" than assuming the best. Some will work out some won't, some will come from higher leagues and some from lower. That's literally how it works and always has.
Comments
Alternatively send me £20 a month and I won't share Nixon's news
We have appointed a League 2 manager. So far, we have signed two League 2 players ... one of which finished in 18th place.
It may work out. It may not. But it's hardly a proven recipe for delivering a Championship-ready (not Premier League-ready) team.
I remain as optimistic as the next fan ... but don't kid yourself. It's optimism, not evidence-based.
Garner is a fantastic coach, if you look I mentioned him when it was the "who would you like next" stage of the thread.
Evidence based, yes one is obviously a player the manager knows and wants, that hasn't been the case for a while. The other is a player the manager would have watched live at least twice last season, plus the half dozen games he watched prepping for those games.
Is it perfect? Of course its not. Maybe not giant strides, they could come later and will be judged accordingly, but certainly baby steps.
Like I said it will take time, because of previous cock ups. Its not perfect, but there are signs it's moving in the right direction aren't there?
No where near the finished article, are we?
Agree on both?
'Evidence-based' is what I'm objecting to.
No problem with optimism. Just don't pretend that it's based on fact.
We finished 13th, what does that say about George Dobson this season... It says he was a great performer in a shit team. But if we were a club in the division above, signing him, there'd be people moaning that we were signing someone who finished 13th in the league below.
And complaints about which league signings are playing in. Unless academy staff and scouts have absolutely perfected every decision at every club in the country, there will be good players up and down the ladder. Some will prove too good for their division and move up, some will prove not good enough and move down. That's just the way it works.
We know that. We've had the worst possible crap from the Championship and absolute gems from the league below and vice versa. It's football, it's about the player.
Like I said baby steps.
Next I'll have @Redrobo accusing me of being negative!
Do you know how many players are likely to pick up long term injuries in those matches?
Purrington interesting to Plymouth.
But ... statistically, players in a lower League are not as good as players in higher League. There will be exceptions .. and, of course, a team's final finishing place is not simply down to one player.
On balance, if I was looking at getting out of the current Division, I would prefer to sign players (and a Manager) from a League or two above ... and even from the current League ... rather than from a League below.
Wouldn't you?
Who you expecting Klopp, Pep, Tuchel?
Argument null and void, I'll go back to arguing with the pigeon, I mean Colin.
Let's leave it there.
Oops your not the Pigeon and its about Plymouth. Nothing to see here.
Of course splashing the cash can fail, as with Ipswich, but Wigan last summer brought in a team of established upper end L1 players and won the title
If a player drops from a higher level for lesser pay, there's normally a good reason for it and it's not always to the benefit of the team they sign for.
If every player we sign is a league two freebie then yes there's concerns there. But I doubt that will be the case.
Amos
Gunter Inniss Famewo Purrington
Watson
Pratley Shinnie
Williams
Bogle Smyth
Every single one of those players played in a higher league the season above (admittedly 4 were relegated and 2 were out on loan but still). Gunter and Watson in particular were truly awful signings and both had been reasonable in the league above.
I was positive that the changes to the recruitment team had been made and would be better this window. I also said that I thought that we would sign at least two players this week.
I also said I found the transfer window exciting and that I was confident we would build a team to challenge for a top six place next season.
I think I also said that I felt sorry for you having all that negativity. I am seriously pleased that you feel that we are at least taking baby steps forward.
Bloody huge strides have been everywhere across the Club IMO and I think there is a real positivity for what feels a new and exciting fresh start.
And Bieliks, and Cullens and Gallaghers.
For fuck's sake ... we aren't getting out of this League (and beyond) with League 2 'maybes'.
We've signed two players so far. There are more to come, and some of those will be on loan as Bielik, Cullen and Gallagher all were.
Assuming the worst is no more "realistic" than assuming the best. Some will work out some won't, some will come from higher leagues and some from lower. That's literally how it works and always has.