There comes a time when you have to think that our problems are bigger than the manager. We've changed managers God knows how many times and it's made no difference! Do we hope we strike it lucky with some miracle maker from somewhere, or go for continuity and trying to build a base from which to progress. I'm not happy with our football ATM, but to his credit, he did get us safe. I think he deserves a pre season and the opportunity to build a team.
Cambridge Utd, Accrington Stanley, Cheltenham Town, Oxford Utd, Wycombe Wanderers, Plymouth Argyle, Rotherham Utd and MK Dons are all above Charlton Athletic. That for me is enough to make me want to weep. Morcambe, yes that’s Morcambe beat us home and away. The club, manager and possibly a good few fans are next season at a crossroads. This season has been an absolute disaster.
We drew up at Morecambe. Though we did throw away a 2 goal lead..
Yet we were unable to come back from being 2 goals down against Morecambe but they managed to do it against us. Speaks volumes about what an underachieving team we've been this season I'll go as far as saying we've been the biggest underachievers of the league this season, maybe even in the whole of the 92.
I'd give him 12-14 games. If we're not right up there, sack him and bring in someone who plays the same formation, so we're not having to rebuild again.
If we are not right up there, why would we play the same formation that would obviously not be working?
Jacko has fans on his side ONLY because he is a club legend. If these performances were churned out by anyone non-Charlton the atmosphere would have been toxic for half a season. The boo's at half time yesterday were loud and sustained. That tells me that Jacko has a very short leash going in to next season, with those still in the 'Jacko In' camp.
I so much wanted it to work for him, but a successful nobody, is my preference, to a losing fans favourite. Sorry Jacko it's a no from me.
True to an extent but not for me, I’d back any manager at this point doing as well as we are now. It’s become clear as the season has gone on that this squad isn’t good enough whoever the manager is and whatever the formation is. We’ll never improve if we keep blaming the manager and replacing him every 6 months.
There’s a lot more wrong with this club than just the manager, from playing staff quality through recruitment to C suite. JJ should get a get a chance imo but everything hinges on 1. Money being available 2. Restructure and 3. Recruitment. Remember TS is talking only 2-5 in with some loanees. The loanees this year have been pony. 2-5 players isn’t going to clean sweep the changes being demanded, and to further complicate the issue that number doesn’t even cover off the out of contract and retiring players.
Given the above my question is WTF any manager would want the job and where are all these top flight players that are queuing up to join Charlton Athletic? There are multiples of better choices to join in Div 3 and Div 2, so players stepping up aren’t necessarily going to make us a top 15 target to move to, while players above, and surplus to requirements have a far wider choice than moving here.
On the evidence of the last 12 months we could be under represented and bring in players worse than we already have unless things in the back room have changed dramatically, including recruitment. The only recruitment improvement we have made is to buy a smaller black box and engage in some nepotism bringing in knowledge 10x higher than the average Sky viewer (which without even knowing any Sky viewers I find extremely hard to believe). Next year will be another ::head:Desk:: experience and changing the manager will just make it worse.
Its very easy to have the sentiment to say as JJ is an ex player with a great history he deserves next season when you ain't putting up the millions to fund it. For me he has shown nothing much that would persuade me to give him a window to supposedly bring his own players in as he has shown a lack of nous in managing the ones he has had this year. That might sound harsh but it is what it is, he needs alot more about him to even get close to getting us promoted imo the job is way beyond him. I just hope if he does go the let's give JE a go as he is Charlton through and through
This is just my opinion, but if Jackson resigned, he would struggle to get another job in the EFL as a manager or even as an assistant manager.
When the vultures were circling Karl Robinson he lined up another job at Oxford and moved clubs before he was pushed, likewise Lee Bowyer did the same with Birmingham.
However I doubt whether Jackson would be as sought after as both Robinson and Bowyer were.
Thomas Sandgaard has a big decision to make. Sack him, or keep him.
If he decides to keep him and next season is a repeat of this car crash of a season. Then next year will be another season written off. More millions down the drain and another year of mediocrity.
Jacko has fans on his side ONLY because he is a club legend. If these performances were churned out by anyone non-Charlton the atmosphere would have been toxic for half a season. The boo's at half time yesterday were loud and sustained. That tells me that Jacko has a very short leash going in to next season, with those still in the 'Jacko In' camp.
I so much wanted it to work for him, but a successful nobody, is my preference, to a losing fans favourite. Sorry Jacko it's a no from me.
True to an extent but not for me, I’d back any manager at this point doing as well as we are now. It’s become clear as the season has gone on that this squad isn’t good enough whoever the manager is and whatever the formation is. We’ll never improve if we keep blaming the manager and replacing him every 6 months.
"Doing as well as we are" 😂
This fanbase deserves everything it gets
Poorly worded, we have a mid table quality squad so that’s where I expect them to finish. We’ve badly underachieved due to poor recruitment. Though perhaps I’m missing the point and it’s the fans causing the problems.
We could constantly sack managers when they fail to over achieve but that’s something that is never going to bring success.
Cambridge Utd, Accrington Stanley, Cheltenham Town, Oxford Utd, Wycombe Wanderers, Plymouth Argyle, Rotherham Utd and MK Dons are all above Charlton Athletic. That for me is enough to make me want to weep. Morcambe, yes that’s Morcambe beat us home and away. The club, manager and possibly a good few fans are next season at a crossroads. This season has been an absolute disaster.
Morecombe away was a 2-2 draw, although it felt like a defeat because we threw it away being 2-0 up.
We will see next season, have a feeling the same people making excuses for Jackson now will still be doing so when we're sat 13th or below in January next season.
We will see next season, have a feeling the same people making excuses for Jackson now will still be doing so when we're sat 13th or below in January next season.
If that happens he should go. I don’t want us to stick with him because of who he is, I want us to give him more time because having two or three managers a season isn’t the answer. It’s one of the main things we criticised RD for.
We will see next season, have a feeling the same people making excuses for Jackson now will still be doing so when we're sat 13th or below in January next season.
I don’t think they will if there is no, limited or crap recruitment …..if the squad is level par or worse than this one he should be hailed as a genius if he finishes above the relegation spots. This is more than a “ change the manager” issue (and wtf wants that job anyway?) it is an investment, structure, training, development, recruitment and C suite issue. If none of that changes this mid to low level Div 3 team performing above its level will be in the bottom half, whoever the manager is.
We will see next season, have a feeling the same people making excuses for Jackson now will still be doing so when we're sat 13th or below in January next season.
If he sticks with Jackson for the start of next season he will need to be ruthless in getting rid long before January and he has to bring in a whole new management team imo so I hope there is a plan for that.
It may be harsh not giving Euell a shot but if things aren't working next season then it's obvious the players are just too comfortable and we'll get the usual bounce before sinking back to our usual mediocrity.
There are plenty of good young managers about. Look at Nottingham forest and MK Dons. Both teams flying after sacking and losing their managers respectively whereas we just got a dead cat bounce.
Think we were bottom 2 when JJ took over, we are safe and I think we are all anticipating a fair bit of squad surgery this summer. We need it to meet our expectations, but I don’t think JJ is the problem.
I think by the time it’s concluded that JJ isn’t up to it next season and I really think that’s the case, next season will be dead and we’ll be having the same discussions.
This. And then the new manager will come in wanting to play 4 4 2 & wont have the players to do so. Rinse & repeat.
Jacko has fans on his side ONLY because he is a club legend. If these performances were churned out by anyone non-Charlton the atmosphere would have been toxic for half a season. The boo's at half time yesterday were loud and sustained. That tells me that Jacko has a very short leash going in to next season, with those still in the 'Jacko In' camp.
I so much wanted it to work for him, but a successful nobody, is my preference, to a losing fans favourite. Sorry Jacko it's a no from me.
True to an extent but not for me, I’d back any manager at this point doing as well as we are now. It’s become clear as the season has gone on that this squad isn’t good enough whoever the manager is and whatever the formation is. We’ll never improve if we keep blaming the manager and replacing him every 6 months.
"Doing as well as we are" 😂
This fanbase deserves everything it gets
Poorly worded, we have a mid table quality squad so that’s where I expect them to finish. We’ve badly underachieved due to poor recruitment. Though perhaps I’m missing the point and it’s the fans causing the problems.
We could constantly sack managers when they fail to over achieve but that’s something that is never going to bring success.
Fair enough. I don't think this squad is that bad on paper, but for whatever reason they have been absolute dogshit under two managers now. I suspect bad attitudes in the dressing room tbh - something just doesn't sit right with me with this squad.
Badly set up under TS and he lacks the cultural and historical understanding of the club, its roots and football in general (I believe).
Jackson way too inexperienced for the size of the task and although I think he should be given a fair chance in the summer, I think he looks likes everyone’s mate at the moment. It’s all too chummy for a lot of that squad and I think they, the players don’t feel that they will get held accountable for poor performances. Jackson goes through the whole ‘these players are playing for their futures etc, and they need to improve otherwise they’ll be out. I don’t think the players feel that sense of fear under him.
Then, the players. Just not good enough. Whatever you try and analyse it, they’re just not up for it.
That’s why it’s going to take a big, big, monumental effort to turn things around
Badly set up under TS and he lacks the cultural and historical understanding of the club, its roots and football in general (I believe).
Jackson way too inexperienced for the size of the task and although I think he should be given a fair chance in the summer, I think he looks likes everyone’s mate at the moment. It’s all too chummy for a lot of that squad and I think they, the players don’t feel that they will get held accountable for poor performances. Jackson goes through the whole ‘these players are playing for their futures etc, and they need to improve otherwise they’ll be out. I don’t think the players feel that sense of fear under him.
Then, the players. Just not good enough. Whatever you try and analyse it, they’re just not up for it.
That’s why it’s going to take a big, big, monumental effort to turn things around
I have no idea if what you say regarding his relationship with the players is entirely accurate ……..and my guess is you don’t either.
Badly set up under TS and he lacks the cultural and historical understanding of the club, its roots and football in general (I believe).
Jackson way too inexperienced for the size of the task and although I think he should be given a fair chance in the summer, I think he looks likes everyone’s mate at the moment. It’s all too chummy for a lot of that squad and I think they, the players don’t feel that they will get held accountable for poor performances. Jackson goes through the whole ‘these players are playing for their futures etc, and they need to improve otherwise they’ll be out. I don’t think the players feel that sense of fear under him.
Then, the players. Just not good enough. Whatever you try and analyse it, they’re just not up for it.
That’s why it’s going to take a big, big, monumental effort to turn things around
I have no idea if what you say regarding his relationship with the players is entirely accurate ……..and my guess is you don’t either.
Yes, that’s why I said ‘I think’. It’s just a feeling I have based on his demeanor and the fact the players seem to be going through the motions
Badly set up under TS and he lacks the cultural and historical understanding of the club, its roots and football in general (I believe).
Jackson way too inexperienced for the size of the task and although I think he should be given a fair chance in the summer, I think he looks likes everyone’s mate at the moment. It’s all too chummy for a lot of that squad and I think they, the players don’t feel that they will get held accountable for poor performances. Jackson goes through the whole ‘these players are playing for their futures etc, and they need to improve otherwise they’ll be out. I don’t think the players feel that sense of fear under him.
Then, the players. Just not good enough. Whatever you try and analyse it, they’re just not up for it.
That’s why it’s going to take a big, big, monumental effort to turn things around
I have no idea if what you say regarding his relationship with the players is entirely accurate ……..and my guess is you don’t either.
Yes, that’s why I said ‘I think’. It’s just a feeling I have based on his demeanor and the fact the players seem to be going through the motions
Heart says give Jacko till October, Head says a new coach but if so who? Surely the bigger question is does Thomas know how to get us out of this mess, imagine the reverse buying a USA baseball, basketball or football club, as an english fan? Thomas bought Charlton without any knowledge of EFL League One, he just had the $$$ . He clearly got to the stage in his life where he probably thought I've made all this $$$$ so let's have fun, with rock n roll and football. He clearly isn't any good as a Metallica tribute band and is now struggling as a football club owner. Who is advising Thomas? does he speak to Curbs, Minto, Brownie... who has his ear...? It's worrying that he bought in a non league number 2 Skiverton to help Jacko. The club is in a real mess, 10 weeks during summer to sort it out and get new players in early, unless there is some budding genius of a manager out there in the wings, then Jacko for me has 10-12 games to really prove himself in 22/23 season.
So much understandable sentimentality surrounding Jackson; it's the Modus Operandi of the Charlton fan.
Jackson will, alas, end up like Chris Powell. A really nice chap who, sadly, is not cut out for football 'management'. Part of the coaching team, yes, but actually managing and handling all that is associated with such, no.
Ok, we all measure success differently, but, in my opinion, Jackson, like Powell, will never be cut out to be a successful manager. He has a touch of the Cowleys or Robinsons about him, a lower league merry-go-round manager. Nothing more than journeyman material.
But then again, are we any better than journeyman material?
I’ll take 101 points in L1 and ninth in the Championship. How about you?
Being a Powell fan, this was over two seasons. What has he done since?
I think it’s enough to make it unfair to dismiss him out of hand as a manager. Quite apart from Roland, he had to deal with the Spivs and I’m not sure fans have understood the depths of that even now. They were scum. Not that I’m biased, of course.
So why has Powell not acheived further success?
I don’t know, but what irritates me is the way people choose to overlook what he did at Charlton, which was exceptional and down to him, and after all what we care about. He had no support from the boardroom in 2013/14 - indeed the opposite from Duchatelet - yet the same people are often quick to blame him for the team being bottom. He did an exceptional job as a manager at Charlton once he got his own players, many of whom signed because of him.
I don’t know if he could have taken it further but saying he wasn’t a successful manager is like saying he wasn’t an international footballer because he only made a few England appearances.
Please do not misunderstand me, I am a Powell fan and what he did for us was fantastic. It is a shame for him that he did not achieve further success as a manager, particularly with us.
He'll last 'til the end of the season and that'll leave Sandy plenty of time to (hopefully) make a considered appointment .. JJ was a terrific No 2 to Bowyer, he just lacks the indefinable qualities that make a good No 1 .. whatever, JJ is a nice guy and it's a shame that he hasn't made a success of his chance
Mr Lincs, surely Jacko's win ratio suggests he should be given the tools to have a crack next season?
We were well in the relegation positions when Jackson took over. We have avoided relegation with something to spare. If we had reproduced Jackson’s points per game for a whole season we would be comfortably in the top half of the table. I think it can be very reasonably said that he took charge of somebody else’s squad and improved them.
Have you got anybody in mind who definitely do better and who would be very willing to come to Charlton.
Your last paragraph isn't the issue. The point is 54 points in a season which is about what we will get more or less.
You seem to have missed the point. He didn’t assemble this season’s team and he wasn’t in charge for the first dozen games. Jackson’s points per game since he took over would extrapolate out to somewhere in the upper 60’s over a whole season. That is with someone else’s failing team.
You are pushing for Jackson’s removal. Given that, it is surely reasonable to ask who you think would be prepared to come to Charlton and would do a better job.
Then it'll be the coaches Jackson has to work with.
Then it'll be the referees.
Then it'll be the EFL for their squad cap rules.
Some people will never admit that Jackson doesn't really look that good at this management stuff.
He has won just under half his games as Charlton manager in all competitions. If winning 48% isn't good, despite only having one January transfer windows, I'm not sure what is or what people expect?
I think it’s more to do with the teams we are losing to, the soft goals we continually ship in, the discipline and players that don’t give their all (which is the most disappointing thing for me - I don’t care if we lose a game if the players have put a proper shift in - this lot just don’t do it, too many hide). The same players that ran through brick walls for Jackson at the start, just don’t do it anymore, except maybe Dobson and CBT.
I don’t expect us to have a good transfer window in the summer either - especially given Sandgaards comment about agents. It’s a complete mess.
I am definitely in the give JJ a chance camp but in terms of alternatives, the best available at the moment would probably be Darren Ferguson or Garry Monk. Wouldn’t be that keen on either but Ferguson did get promoted last season with Peterborough.
If we were to make the change I would instead look at poaching a manager, maybe Michael Duff from Cheltenham. Highly rated young manager that has done well this season after winning League 2 last year. Other options could be Mark Bonner(Cambridge) or Matt Taylor (Exeter).
The other big concern I’d have with changing managers is I have no faith in TS appointing the right person. I think he will stick with JJ which is probably the right call
I am definitely in the give JJ a chance camp but in terms of alternatives, the best available at the moment would probably be Darren Ferguson or Garry Monk. Wouldn’t be that keen on either but Ferguson did get promoted last season with Peterborough.
If we were to make the change I would instead look at poaching a manager, maybe Michael Duff from Cheltenham. Highly rated young manager that has done well this season after winning League 2 last year. Other options could be Mark Bonner(Cambridge) or Matt Taylor (Exeter).
The other big concern I’d have with changing managers is I have no faith in TS appointing the right person. I think he will stick with JJ which is probably the right call
Cambridge and Cheltenham are in strong positions to finish above us. Why would they leave to come here
We were well in the relegation positions when Jackson took over. We have avoided relegation with something to spare. If we had reproduced Jackson’s points per game for a whole season we would be comfortably in the top half of the table. I think it can be very reasonably said that he took charge of somebody else’s squad and improved them.
Have you got anybody in mind who definitely do better and who would be very willing to come to Charlton.
Your last paragraph isn't the issue. The point is 54 points in a season which is about what we will get more or less.
You seem to have missed the point. He didn’t assemble this season’s team and he wasn’t in charge for the first dozen games. Jackson’s points per game since he took over would extrapolate out to somewhere in the upper 60’s over a whole season. That is with someone else’s failing team.
You are pushing for Jackson’s removal. Given that, it is surely reasonable to ask who you think would be prepared to come to Charlton and would do a better job.
I think if the Charlton job became vacant we’d be surprised by the quality of applicants. For the time being at least the name Charlton Athletic still means quite a lot in English football despite our current lowly status. The Valley is an impressive stadium and the pull of being in London shouldn’t be forgotten. The club is punching below its weight right now but it’s still an attractive job. I suspect every manager in league two and at least 80% in league one would swap jobs for it. Add to that managers currently not in work and overseas applicants and I think there’s plenty of choice. Fwiw. I think Jackson will start next season but I also think he’ll be gone by Christmas. Just an opinion.
As the saying goes, when the going gets tough, the tough get going. Up to Jacko to decide if he’s up to it or not. If he believes he is and has a radical/credible plan that will see us challenge for the top spot next season then he needs to start making that clear and we should be backing him. If that plan is to basically drift along with what has been going on and think it will eventually work out then going after the Ipswich game might be best all around. Something has to change pdq, hopefully it’s not Jacko going though it is hard to see beyond that at the moment.
Comments
We've changed managers God knows how many times and it's made no difference!
Do we hope we strike it lucky with some miracle maker from somewhere, or go for continuity and trying to build a base from which to progress.
I'm not happy with our football ATM, but to his credit, he did get us safe.
I think he deserves a pre season and the opportunity to build a team.
This fanbase deserves everything it gets
Given the above my question is WTF any manager would want the job and where are all these top flight players that are queuing up to join Charlton Athletic? There are multiples of better choices to join in Div 3 and Div 2, so players stepping up aren’t necessarily going to make us a top 15 target to move to, while players above, and surplus to requirements have a far wider choice than moving here.
On the evidence of the last 12 months we could be under represented and bring in players worse than we already have unless things in the back room have changed dramatically, including recruitment. The only recruitment improvement we have made is to buy a smaller black box and engage in some nepotism bringing in knowledge 10x higher than the average Sky viewer (which without even knowing any Sky viewers I find extremely hard to believe). Next year will be another ::head:Desk:: experience and changing the manager will just make it worse.
When the vultures were circling Karl Robinson he lined up another job at Oxford and moved clubs before he was pushed, likewise Lee Bowyer did the same with Birmingham.
However I doubt whether Jackson would be as sought after as both Robinson and Bowyer were.
Thomas Sandgaard has a big decision to make.
Sack him, or keep him.
If he decides to keep him and next season is a repeat of this car crash of a season. Then next year will be another season written off.
More millions down the drain and another year of mediocrity.
We could constantly sack managers when they fail to over achieve but that’s something that is never going to bring success.
But it sure has been one stinky season.
It may be harsh not giving Euell a shot but if things aren't working next season then it's obvious the players are just too comfortable and we'll get the usual bounce before sinking back to our usual mediocrity.
There are plenty of good young managers about. Look at Nottingham forest and MK Dons. Both teams flying after sacking and losing their managers respectively whereas we just got a dead cat bounce.
Badly set up under TS and he lacks the cultural and historical understanding of the club, its roots and football in general (I believe).
Jackson way too inexperienced for the size of the task and although I think he should be given a fair chance in the summer, I think he looks likes everyone’s mate at the moment. It’s all too chummy for a lot of that squad and I think they, the players don’t feel that they will get held accountable for poor performances. Jackson goes through the whole ‘these players are playing for their futures etc, and they need to improve otherwise they’ll be out. I don’t think the players feel that sense of fear under him.
Then, the players. Just not good enough. Whatever you try and analyse it, they’re just not up for it.
Please do not misunderstand me, I am a Powell fan and what he did for us was fantastic. It is a shame for him that he did not achieve further success as a manager, particularly with us.
Mr Lincs, surely Jacko's win ratio suggests he should be given the tools to have a crack next season?
You are pushing for Jackson’s removal. Given that, it is surely reasonable to ask who you think would be prepared to come to Charlton and would do a better job.
Hard to see much difference next season.