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Sorry but Jackson has to go.

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  • edited April 2022
    There are a lot of factors in being a good manager and there are a lot of good managers who don't get a chance to show they are good managers. At our level, some have qualities others don't have and visa versa. There are a lot of good managers that get found out by circumstances. I wanted Bowyer out because I was aware he had lost the dressing room. Before this happened he did a terrific job. Jacko hasn't lost the dressing room and is intelligent enough to work out what we need to do.

    He has to learn of course as any inexperienced manager does. Whether he can do that or not depends on him and I don't know one way or the other. And that may be a reason why Skiverton has come in. The managment team have to formulate a plan to get promoted and on top of that, probably most importantly, that plan has to be backed. As Powell's plan was.

    But maybe it is not that difficult beyond the basics that most managers have. Put together a team that wants to play for you and the shirt and have he attributes to succeed. This is easier to achieve in League One IMO. Jackson has to understand what is holding us back and then address it. It makes sense that he has the opportunity to do this and us fans can play our part by being supportive.

    I would say a big failing is we don't have enough goals in the team. I have observed this since day one of this season. The centre halves we bring in need to be able to get a few, the midfielder/s we bring in need to know where the goal is and a player who has scored 26 this season playing for a struggling side would add a lot. Then you start cancelling out the narrow defeats and we have had a lot of tight games we have drawn or lost, even ones we have not been great in.
  • I'm undecided on Jacko's retention and on that basis he probably should stay.  Not sure that's heart ruling head or not. But, my main wishes if we could turn back the clock;

    1) He'd had have remained interim boss for the season.

    The drop off in results and performance have been alarming. I wonder where his win percentages and table rank are at since his full time appointment.


    2) He'd have used this season of mid table mediocrity as an opportunity to try different formations and not just for small parts of matches where we are chasing. 

    The attacking wide players we had could have been a real weapon at this level. Play to your strengths available now not after the next window or the one after. They may never come in this job.

    His rationale for sticking to 352 is that he wants his team to play with an identity. Why and what does this actually mean? If you cannot be identified you are arguably less predictable and we have been properly found out by our opponents this season at times. Average opponents at that too.

    --

    If I could speak to Jacko right now I'd say come on mate stop being so stubborn and reflect on your experiences as coach. Look at who you've worked under and consider who was most successful and why. Be more adaptable with formations like Bowyer and less like Robbo or Adkins. 

    Otherwise this won't end well and we all desperately want you to succeed.


  • I think we should all make a spo ge without an egg.
  • I find it somewhat strange that this level of football produces so many teams play with three CBs as if this is the secret to success. We didn't under CP but, more to the point, the best two teams in England and possibly Europe don't either. City and Liverpool also happen to have conceded the least goals of the 92 clubs too so it's not just about their ability to score - it's as much about their ability to press and to defend from the front.
  • I find it somewhat strange that this level of football produces so many teams play with three CBs as if this is the secret to success. We didn't under CP but, more to the point, the best two teams in England and possibly Europe don't either. City and Liverpool also happen to have conceded the least goals of the 92 clubs too so it's not just about their ability to score - it's as much about their ability to press and to defend from the front.
    I think the trend of playing with three CBs in L1 is to mitigate how poor the general standard of centre backs in this league is. 
  • Croydon said:
    I have no idea what our tactics are. Does anyone? He's not up to it, which is a real shame, but I can't see how he has the job into next season. 

    I'm not sure but i think 3rd division tactics are to pass the ball from left back to right back then run about pulling each others shirts until you can trip over a blade of grass and try and get a free kick.
  • So much understandable sentimentality surrounding Jackson; it's the Modus Operandi of the Charlton fan.

    Jackson will, alas, end up like Chris Powell. A really nice chap who, sadly, is not cut out for football 'management'. Part of the coaching team, yes, but actually managing and handling all that is associated with such, no.

    Ok, we all measure success differently, but, in my opinion, Jackson, like Powell, will never be cut out to be a successful manager. He has a touch of the Cowleys or Robinsons about him, a lower league merry-go-round manager. Nothing more than journeyman material.

    But then again, are we any better than journeyman material?
    I’ll take 101 points in L1 and ninth in the Championship. How about you?

    Being a Powell fan, this was over two seasons.  What has he done since?
    Coach to the England squad which came a close second in the Euros is one little thing. 
    Which I would suggest his contribution may have been minimal.
    What he has done solely as manager is more relevant.
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  • Ok. We know and Jackson knows that the squad doesn’t have the players to play 3-5-2. Jackson will also know which players he wants to keep because next season they are good enough to play that system. If he doesn’t know that by now then he’s utterly useless and I don’t believe that. Why given the above is he so stubbornly resisting playing 4-4-2 in order to get some better performances and some points ? Don’t give me the crap he’s still assessing players. If he is we’re really screwed. As manager it’s your responsibility to get the best out of the players you have. If that means adapting systems then so be it. He’s losing the fans because the football is absolutely dire and not even mitigated by good results. There’s no evidence of anything to make me hopeful that next season will be much better. Even if the players are completely useless, the least I expect players wearing the Charlton shirt is to give their all. Jackson doesn’t even seem to be able to get that basic out of them. He’s got to go.
  • So much understandable sentimentality surrounding Jackson; it's the Modus Operandi of the Charlton fan.

    Jackson will, alas, end up like Chris Powell. A really nice chap who, sadly, is not cut out for football 'management'. Part of the coaching team, yes, but actually managing and handling all that is associated with such, no.

    Ok, we all measure success differently, but, in my opinion, Jackson, like Powell, will never be cut out to be a successful manager. He has a touch of the Cowleys or Robinsons about him, a lower league merry-go-round manager. Nothing more than journeyman material.

    But then again, are we any better than journeyman material?
    I’ll take 101 points in L1 and ninth in the Championship. How about you?

    Being a Powell fan, this was over two seasons.  What has he done since?
    I think it’s enough to make it unfair to dismiss him out of hand as a manager. Quite apart from Roland, he had to deal with the Spivs and I’m not sure fans have understood the depths of that even now. They were scum. Not that I’m biased, of course.

    So why has Powell not acheived further success?
    I don’t know, but what irritates me is the way people choose to overlook what he did at Charlton, which was exceptional and down to him, and after all what we care about. He had no support from the boardroom in 2013/14 - indeed the opposite from Duchatelet - yet the same people are often quick to blame him for the team being bottom. He did an exceptional job as a manager at Charlton once he got his own players, many of whom signed because of him. 

    I don’t know if he could have taken it further but saying he wasn’t a successful manager is like saying he wasn’t an international footballer because he only made a few England appearances.
    Plenty who think what Powell did was special, seem so sure Jackson will do the same. Surely by that logic it can't have been that special then?

    (I think Powell was special and don't think Jackson can replicate it) 


  • se9addick said:
    I find it somewhat strange that this level of football produces so many teams play with three CBs as if this is the secret to success. We didn't under CP but, more to the point, the best two teams in England and possibly Europe don't either. City and Liverpool also happen to have conceded the least goals of the 92 clubs too so it's not just about their ability to score - it's as much about their ability to press and to defend from the front.
    I think the trend of playing with three CBs in L1 is to mitigate how poor the general standard of centre backs in this league is. 
    It's also new, the last 12 teams promoted play a back 4.  11 of them played 433/4231 as well. 
  • One troubling inheritance for Jackson was being landed with a very dodgy goalkeeper who he is kind of obliged to play because of the length of the contract.
    All goalkeepers can have some good games, but our first team keeper is a liability who has cost us more points than he has won for us.
  • Ok. We know and Jackson knows that the squad doesn’t have the players to play 3-5-2. Jackson will also know which players he wants to keep because next season they are good enough to play that system. If he doesn’t know that by now then he’s utterly useless and I don’t believe that. Why given the above is he so stubbornly resisting playing 4-4-2 in order to get some better performances and some points ? Don’t give me the crap he’s still assessing players. If he is we’re really screwed. As manager it’s your responsibility to get the best out of the players you have. If that means adapting systems then so be it. He’s losing the fans because the football is absolutely dire and not even mitigated by good results. There’s no evidence of anything to make me hopeful that next season will be much better. Even if the players are completely useless, the least I expect players wearing the Charlton shirt is to give their all. Jackson doesn’t even seem to be able to get that basic out of them. He’s got to go.
    Why 4-4-2? What makes you think it'll get better performances and better results? Barely anyone in the division plays it anymore as it's easy to be outnumbered in central midfield.

    Most of this squad would have never played 4-4-2 in the academy they came through in. I saw us play 4-4-2 diamond in the youth cup, the regular formation at the time, and that was 14 years ago.

    We know he's not playing 4-3-3/4-2-3-1 because it wasn't working under Adkins.

    A 4-4-2 diamond has similar weaknesses to 3-5-2.

    I don't see a different formation turning this group into a good team or making them more consistent. We don't have enough goalscorers for a start and the players know they have nothing to play for. Those weaknesses and more all add up and have stopped this team from achieving. The system won't change that.
  • Ok. We know and Jackson knows that the squad doesn’t have the players to play 3-5-2. Jackson will also know which players he wants to keep because next season they are good enough to play that system. If he doesn’t know that by now then he’s utterly useless and I don’t believe that. Why given the above is he so stubbornly resisting playing 4-4-2 in order to get some better performances and some points ? Don’t give me the crap he’s still assessing players. If he is we’re really screwed. As manager it’s your responsibility to get the best out of the players you have. If that means adapting systems then so be it. He’s losing the fans because the football is absolutely dire and not even mitigated by good results. There’s no evidence of anything to make me hopeful that next season will be much better. Even if the players are completely useless, the least I expect players wearing the Charlton shirt is to give their all. Jackson doesn’t even seem to be able to get that basic out of them. He’s got to go.
    Let's go back to a flat back 4 that worked so successfully with the same group of players under Adkins then?
  • edited April 2022
    Scoham said:
    Ok. We know and Jackson knows that the squad doesn’t have the players to play 3-5-2. Jackson will also know which players he wants to keep because next season they are good enough to play that system. If he doesn’t know that by now then he’s utterly useless and I don’t believe that. Why given the above is he so stubbornly resisting playing 4-4-2 in order to get some better performances and some points ? Don’t give me the crap he’s still assessing players. If he is we’re really screwed. As manager it’s your responsibility to get the best out of the players you have. If that means adapting systems then so be it. He’s losing the fans because the football is absolutely dire and not even mitigated by good results. There’s no evidence of anything to make me hopeful that next season will be much better. Even if the players are completely useless, the least I expect players wearing the Charlton shirt is to give their all. Jackson doesn’t even seem to be able to get that basic out of them. He’s got to go.
    Why 4-4-2? What makes you think it'll get better performances and better results? Barely anyone in the division plays it anymore as it's easy to be outnumbered in central midfield.

    Most of this squad would have never played 4-4-2 in the academy they came through in. I saw us play 4-4-2 diamond in the youth cup, the regular formation at the time, and that was 14 years ago.

    We know he's not playing 4-3-3/4-2-3-1 because it wasn't working under Adkins.

    A 4-4-2 diamond has similar weaknesses to 3-5-2.

    I don't see a different formation turning this group into a good team or making them more consistent. We don't have enough goalscorers for a start and the players know they have nothing to play for. Those weaknesses and more all add up and have stopped this team from achieving. The system won't change that.
    I would love us to play a 1998 style 442 just so people can see there is a reason 85+ teams out of 92 don't play it.

    You can go to a 442/424 late on but to start like that would be unwise.

    What ever formation you play (352, 433, the diamond, 451, that 3 box 1 thing that some teams play now) the starting point has to be 3 central midfielders that between them offer defensive stability, creativity, energy and a goal threat.

    Over the last 2 seasons we have had 2, very short spells, where we have had that.  It seems bonkers now but Watson/JFC/Gilbey gave us that late last season and Dobson/Gilbey/Lee did when we were "bouncing".

    Until we get that right the rest is almost irrelevant. 
  • Love how this thread gets in comments slagging off Powell/Bowyer
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  • The reason JJ has stuck to it is because it took us from 22nd in League 1 to a tad under mid table League 1. 
    Charlton fans have memories of a fish and the first 13 games of this season were truly awful and hardly created a chance in many games under Nigel with his isolated central Striker and two wide players and Albie Morgan as the attacking midfielder who couldn't hit a cows arse with a banjo when he sees the goal. 

    3-5-2 is a flexible system to play and we need better and quicker players to make it work and be more consistent. We made shocking individual defensive mistakes under both Bowyer and Adkins with 4 at the back. 
    3-4-3 to accommodate CBT may be the answer for next season so In my opinion I would use CBT in that attacking position that took him past two defenders on a regular basis yesterday. I don't want him wasting energy defending unnecessary especially at the valley. As long as the other two are in the box up front then fine.

    I thought there was positives yesterday with Dobson attacking more and the way we passed the ball out wide. The big negative was the collective defending for the goals. The 3rd goal was a shocker with shit for brains again affecting Cafc decision making with a throw out to a one paced player.

    Charlton fans are punch drunk and yesterday's game summed it up for me when for 10 minutes Morecombe couldn't get the ball out of their half and we attacked down both flanks and created chances.
    In both the Lincoln game and yesterday we should've had 5 goals.  A fit Aneke would have slaughtered  both Lincoln and Morecombe. 

    Agree it's a results business and we want to be better than also-rans in League 1. Johnnie Jackson has a summer where is has to be backed to get some faster fitter players who can play 90+ minutes.

    We were spoilt with Callen, Gallagher and Bielik and we have realised since that there are some really mediocre players at Arsenal, Chelsea, Manchester United and city; well the ones who end up at Cafc in the last two seasons.
  • Scoham said:
    Ok. We know and Jackson knows that the squad doesn’t have the players to play 3-5-2. Jackson will also know which players he wants to keep because next season they are good enough to play that system. If he doesn’t know that by now then he’s utterly useless and I don’t believe that. Why given the above is he so stubbornly resisting playing 4-4-2 in order to get some better performances and some points ? Don’t give me the crap he’s still assessing players. If he is we’re really screwed. As manager it’s your responsibility to get the best out of the players you have. If that means adapting systems then so be it. He’s losing the fans because the football is absolutely dire and not even mitigated by good results. There’s no evidence of anything to make me hopeful that next season will be much better. Even if the players are completely useless, the least I expect players wearing the Charlton shirt is to give their all. Jackson doesn’t even seem to be able to get that basic out of them. He’s got to go.
    Why 4-4-2? What makes you think it'll get better performances and better results? Barely anyone in the division plays it anymore as it's easy to be outnumbered in central midfield.

    Most of this squad would have never played 4-4-2 in the academy they came through in. I saw us play 4-4-2 diamond in the youth cup, the regular formation at the time, and that was 14 years ago.

    We know he's not playing 4-3-3/4-2-3-1 because it wasn't working under Adkins.

    A 4-4-2 diamond has similar weaknesses to 3-5-2.

    I don't see a different formation turning this group into a good team or making them more consistent. We don't have enough goalscorers for a start and the players know they have nothing to play for. Those weaknesses and more all add up and have stopped this team from achieving. The system won't change that.
    Fair enough. I used 4-4-2 as an example but my point remains. Any system other than the dismal and completely failed 3-5-2 that Jackson insists on persevering with. 
  • edited April 2022
    Defensively we're an utter shambles and concede far too many 'soft' goals. Some of this must be down to the coaching and the manager.

    Too many basic errors.
    And yet at Rotherham we defended superbly, unquestionably the defences best display of the season.
    I can scarcely believe the difference in the two performances, especially being just a few days apart..…..simply no logic.
    I would imagine Jacko is as dumbfounded as the rest of us.🧐🧐🧐🧐🧐
  • JohnnyH2 said:
    Love how this thread gets in comments slagging off Powell/Bowyer
    Both of whom gave us promotions to savour since the troubled times we had to endure after the halcyon days of the Premiership. Football fans eh! 😉
  • Any time we’ve played 4-4-2 recently, our midfield has been completely overran by teams with 3 in the middle. We’ve also spent 500k on Fraser who wouldn’t be able to play in a 2 man central midfield. 

    Also those advocating a switch to a back 4, how would that even work with what we have available we don’t have a right footed CB so we’d either have to play Clare at CB in a back 4 or Pearce/Famewo on the right! Both would be defensive suicide. 
  • NabySarr said:
    Any time we’ve played 4-4-2 recently, our midfield has been completely overran by teams with 3 in the middle. We’ve also spent 500k on Fraser who wouldn’t be able to play in a 2 man central midfield. 

    Also those advocating a switch to a back 4, how would that even work with what we have available we don’t have a right footed CB so we’d either have to play Clare at CB in a back 4 or Pearce/Famewo on the right! Both would be defensive suicide. 
    As opposed to the defensive masterclasses we’ve recently witnessed.
  • What about our complete inability to recover when we concede and go behind? Who is that down to? Or the terrible disciplinary record we have? 

    Players or coach? 
  • Having thought about it long and hard, I don't think Jackson is the only issue, the players are just as at fault. The issue I have with Jackson is his refusal to admit we don't have the players for a 352 formation this season, and his insistence on playing that way. 

    Recently, we played a game where the back 5 were made up of a right back, a defensive midfielder, a central defender, a left back and a right winger. We have also played Leko as a right wing back in one game, then as the main striker with Lee off him a couple of games later. The team selection makes zero sense. We have the players to play 442, 433, a 41212 (diamond) or at a push a 4231. If Jackson was worth his salt, he would have recognised that and played to the teams (admittedly few) strengths, and then in the summer recruited players for a 352 if that's how he wants to play. 

    Also, whoever is in charge of how our defence positions itself and how they handle people running across the edge of the box with the ball, needs to be sacked. We've conceded at least a dozen goals this season by teams doing this, it's embarrassing how easy it is to run Infront of our central defence and crack off a shot 
  • Scoham said:
    Which was my point, this is an average mid table team and there isn’t a formation that will turn them into something better.
    I think this is right but you have to question the managers intransigence in trying anything other than a proven failed system and a manager who seems unable to adapt or change formation during a game. 
This discussion has been closed.

Roland Out Forever!