Why would she want the job? Unless she has towering self confidence and a huge desire to prove a woman can make it in the men's game (I'm not saying she lacks either of those btw), then all I see is downsides for her.
Currently she challenges for league titles, domestic cups and European honours every season. No matter what we think, trying to get out of league one doesn't really compete.
Every time we fail to win a game she'll get endless sexist abuse, on social media both from a tiny minority of our own fans, and the weirdos how seem to live their sad lives on Twitter abusing women every day.
More than that, she'll probably get sexist abuse from within the game. Footballers, on average, are less well educated that then general population (something to do with not paying attention in school due to thinking they're going to make it as a footballer). Put below average education together with stress and testosterone, and the results may not be pleasant. We all know arguments happen in dressing rooms and on training pitches, it's almost guaranteed that will turn sexist at some stage.
And that's before you add in the potential of oppositions players and staff having little digs continually.
Best case scenario, she proves that a very successful women's manager can cut it in league one (part of me wants to say whoopti-do, but it would be an important first step), outside of the best case, she's just asking for endless online abuse, plus abuse from the stands, plus possible abuse from players, and more than likely a massive dose of condescension, if not derision, from the media.
I wonder how many of the people dismissing Hayes as an option have any idea who she is, what her management style is like, what her tactical preference is, how she handles man management etc. Or are some just saying no because they saw a women's game on TV 6 years ago and decided they didn't like it? I reckon I can guess.
Very narrow minded comment there. Do you assume that your opinions are clearly superior that you think anybody in disagreement must be a bigot or misinformed? Speaking as someone against the idea of Hayes as an option, having managed various teams of men and women I know in order to be an effective leader you have to manage people differently and men/women especially often require very different approaches. Emma has clearly proven herself in the womens game and as a good leader amongst women, that has not yet been proven the mens. I’d personally rather us not be the test of that considering how dire our last few years have been.
Point out to me where I've included an opinion about how Hayes would be as manager in my post? What I found going through was that there was an immediate dismissal of her ability to do the job by someone who said they didn't give a toss about the women's game and was worried that it was inappropriate for a female manager to be in a job where there is a room where a man might take his shorts off. That made me wonder how many against it were in the camp of 'woman manager, women's football is bad, no thanks' and how many had followed the WSL this season and had an idea of her as a manager to base an opinion on. I'm still interested in that, I think it's interesting. You've then assumed my opinion on it and called me narrow minded based on that assumption, which isn't really my problem to be honest. As it is, as much as I rate her as a manager I don't know how she would find this mess and I think she'd be a bigger risk than I'd want to take at this point after a pretty miserable season, though I'd trust her to tell a few of these players who they are fairly quickly!
I didn't claim to say you had an opinion on Hayes, but you did have an opinion on those who didn't want her. I do agree with you on the 'taking shorts off' part, ridiculous and doesn't matter one bit, I'm sure two professions can control themselves around the opposite sex. Once again, I didn't assume your opinion on Hayes, I read your comment before where you made an assumption on those of us who don't want her.
That's even madder then. I asked how many have watched Hayes' work closely this season, which may well include you (I don't want to assume, I fear it might only make things more difficult). I then wondered if some are just against it based on not liking women's football. This was based on statements like 'Couldn't give a toss about woman's football tbh.' (7 Likes) and 'No , I do not want a woman managing the men's team' (7 Likes). Not really much needed in terms of assumption there, but even still I wondered if 'some' had opinions not based on any knowledge of her managerial profile, which judging by the interactions with those sad comment I don't think I'm out of my mind for thinking is the case. You've then jumped across quite the chasm to get offended and call me narrow minded when my comment wasn't even directed at you. It's powerful stuff.
Sky Sport are desperately trying to promote the woman's game……I think they’ll find the results somewhat disappointing and I wouldn’t be surprised to see them scale down considerably in the not too distant future. I love the fact that women are now playing football to a much higher standard and long may they do so.
I have genuinely tried to get more interested but I find the standard way below what the man’s game has to offer. Therefore, sad to say, I have no time for it as there is so much male professional football on offer via TV and the media…etc.
WSL does better numbers then Super League, and costs Sky a load less money, £8m v £26m
If women's football isn't a step down, why do we have women's football? The teams should be mixed/joint.
I can't believe you would come out with that rubbish. It's not funny so why would you say that. Horse racing or show jumping is about the only sport I can think of where men and woman can compete on equal terms. Darts and snooker also but it hasn't happen yet.
There was three girls in the Tandridge League who played in boys teams until Nature and puberty decided it was time for them to play in girls teams. Two ended up playing in the Women's championship and one decided to become a county netball player as she grew and grew. ( Be a keeper and raise the standard )
Back to Cafc next manager and let's hope it happens soon.
If women's football isn't a step down, why do we have women's football? The teams should be mixed/joint.
I can't believe you would come out with that rubbish. It's not funny so why would you say that. Horse racing or show jumping is about the only sport I can think of where men and woman can compete on equal terms. Darts and snooker also but it hasn't happen yet.
There was three girls in the Tandridge League who played in boys teams until Nature and puberty decided it was time for them to play in girls teams. Two ended up playing in the Women's championship and one decided to become a county netball player as she grew and grew. ( Be a keeper and raise the standard )
Back to Cafc next manager and let's hope it happens soon.
It's not meant to be funny. It's a discussion about an opinion that Chelsea's womens team is bigger than Charlton's men's team.
Chelsea's women team manager is a bigger job then ours
People can laugh all they want on here but it’s true.
How do you define bigger then?
Higher profile, better paid, better infrastructure, she's still got ambitions around the Champions League and competing with Barcelona.
With that logic, managing the Chelsea u16s is a better job than Charlton first-team manager then.
I don't know how you have that leap, a step up from the U16s in the men's games is a step up, but not betweenone of the best jobs in the Women's game to a lower league in the men's sport.
It also predisposes that the Women's game should know its place
The level if quality in Women's football vs mens is HUGE, it's not an opinion, it's a fact.
Actually, the quality, as in the skillset is pretty good and is increasing all the time. (Why should it not be?) In my opinion the difference is created by the lack of speed, stamina and physicality in women's football.
If women's football isn't a step down, why do we have women's football? The teams should be mixed/joint.
I don't think that comparison quite works. There's no sense in comparing men's and women's football in terms of them competing against each other, because they don't. The women only play against the women, but the requirements of the manager are still pretty much the same, it doesn't necessarily mean that skillset is a step down because it's applied to a different group. Hayes has had to manage a large squad, keeping a team happy through regular rotation. She's had to leave some very good players on the bench and keep them sufficiently engaged that they can come on and change a game. She's successfully converted players like Reiten and Charles into new positions (more successful wing-back conversions than Jacko managed!) She's kept the players level and calm through a very tight title race and she's handled the media very well in keeping expectations down with the public but standards high in the team. There's no doubt this season has been a man management masterclass from her, and tactically she's made changes that have made Chelsea very difficult to beat. She's also done all that with the ability to sign just about any player she wants, and being able to sign one of the all-time best strikers and a two time UEFA player of the year as well as leading players in all positions certainly makes her life a lot easier. She won't find that level of signing resource if she does move to a club in the men's game unless City decide to replace Pep with her, and that could be a big adaptation. I don't think the question is whether her skills are applicable to men instead of women, I think the question is always just is she any good and would she work for the team that wants to hire her, and that's always up in the air to be honest. Adkins got Southampton to the Premier League and took us to the foot of League One. Bowyer went from a capable League One promotion manager to a frothing League One psychopath swinging at anyone who moved within a 3 year period. Moyes had Everton in the Champions League, down to a laughing stock with Sunderland. He even managed to be an unwanted stopgap and a total Messiah in two spells at the same club with a 6 month gap. Garry Monk started off his career as a successful Premier League manager and was last seen being sacked from a Championship club in the relegation zone after failing all the way down. Managers will step up and step down from various levels over and over and to a certain extent you just have to cross your fingers and hope they work with your setup for as long as possible before they inevitably do fail.
If women's football isn't a step down, why do we have women's football? The teams should be mixed/joint.
I can't believe you would come out with that rubbish. It's not funny so why would you say that. Horse racing or show jumping is about the only sport I can think of where men and woman can compete on equal terms. Darts and snooker also but it hasn't happen yet.
There was three girls in the Tandridge League who played in boys teams until Nature and puberty decided it was time for them to play in girls teams. Two ended up playing in the Women's championship and one decided to become a county netball player as she grew and grew. ( Be a keeper and raise the standard )
Back to Cafc next manager and let's hope it happens soon.
Could be wrong, but thought snooker tournaments were open to both genders
If women's football isn't a step down, why do we have women's football? The teams should be mixed/joint.
I can't believe you would come out with that rubbish. It's not funny so why would you say that. Horse racing or show jumping is about the only sport I can think of where men and woman can compete on equal terms. Darts and snooker also but it hasn't happen yet.
There was three girls in the Tandridge League who played in boys teams until Nature and puberty decided it was time for them to play in girls teams. Two ended up playing in the Women's championship and one decided to become a county netball player as she grew and grew. ( Be a keeper and raise the standard )
Back to Cafc next manager and let's hope it happens soon.
Could be wrong, but thought snooker tournaments were open to both genders
There is no reason why a woman can't be as tactically astute and able to manage a men's team as a man is. We don't really need to continue this conversation really.
No , I do not want a woman managing the men's team.
Ok, I've said it. So sue me.
Can’t see why. Coaching and good ideas for football are not the preserve of men. I don’t see a problem. We’re not asking her to go in goal are we.
Sure, if it is just a coach you're looking for. Managers tend to have more over-arching duties including handling personal issues, dressing somebody down when necessary, there are natural differences between the characters or women vs men. Maybe when this particular change happens in English football it will be a success, jury is still out for me on whether a woman in charge would be able to reign in 20+ young men all with bags of banter and attitude, having to retain that level of respect at the helm. There's every chance Emma would come in and be a success, but as we haven't seen a female manager in the mens English game yet, I for one would rather us not be the guinea pig of this particular social experiment considering how wide apart the women's game currently is from the mens.
@vfrf - why would a woman managing a group of male footballers be any different to a woman managing a group of male accountants, doctors, bank staff, bakers etc
There is absolutely no difference in managing a women's team to managing a men's team.
How do you qualify that statement when it's never been done? In all of those industries you've mentioned, there's often a relatively balanced mix of both sexes in the actual teams. As a female manager in mens football, you'll often be the only female in the room unless you bring your own background staff so to say there's absolutely no difference is a hell of an assumption. You can't get past the biology of there being differences in men and women, also for what it's worth, I never said she'd be unsuccessful - I just said I don't want us to be the first team to do it as it could backfire and I'm quite frankly fed up with gambling and saying 'next year we'll kick on'.
explain what coaching and tactics can be employed by men that cannot be used by female players. the biology is irrelevant to tactics, unless you want the striker to squeeze the defenders balls as the corner comes in.
Why has this thread turned into a conversation around women’s football? I really don’t want to, nor do I expect to have to, read about it when trying to read the latest conversation around who the next Charlton manager may or may not be.
Why has this thread turned into a conversation around women’s football? I really don’t want to, nor do I expect to have to, read about it when trying to read the latest conversation around who the next Charlton manager may or may not be.
Yeah more on topic please? Nothing against woman's football at all and open for Emma to be our next manager but right now there seems to be very few names flying around, especially if you compare with the AFCW vacancy
No , I do not want a woman managing the men's team.
Ok, I've said it. So sue me.
Can’t see why. Coaching and good ideas for football are not the preserve of men. I don’t see a problem. We’re not asking her to go in goal are we.
Sure, if it is just a coach you're looking for. Managers tend to have more over-arching duties including handling personal issues, dressing somebody down when necessary, there are natural differences between the characters or women vs men. Maybe when this particular change happens in English football it will be a success, jury is still out for me on whether a woman in charge would be able to reign in 20+ young men all with bags of banter and attitude, having to retain that level of respect at the helm. There's every chance Emma would come in and be a success, but as we haven't seen a female manager in the mens English game yet, I for one would rather us not be the guinea pig of this particular social experiment considering how wide apart the women's game currently is from the mens.
@vfrf - why would a woman managing a group of male footballers be any different to a woman managing a group of male accountants, doctors, bank staff, bakers etc
There is absolutely no difference in managing a women's team to managing a men's team.
How do you qualify that statement when it's never been done? In all of those industries you've mentioned, there's often a relatively balanced mix of both sexes in the actual teams. As a female manager in mens football, you'll often be the only female in the room unless you bring your own background staff so to say there's absolutely no difference is a hell of an assumption. You can't get past the biology of there being differences in men and women, also for what it's worth, I never said she'd be unsuccessful - I just said I don't want us to be the first team to do it as it could backfire and I'm quite frankly fed up with gambling and saying 'next year we'll kick on'.
explain what coaching and tactics can be employed by men that cannot be used by female players. the biology is irrelevant to tactics, unless you want the striker to squeeze the defenders balls as the corner comes in.
I didn't ever claim is was relevant to tactics, but it makes a difference with how you handle their personal lives, their feelings/emotions, I'm not going to break down male vs female psychology on a football forum but if you think that men and women think/feel exactly the same as eachother and will be handled equally well by either sex, then I think maybe a google search on your part might start to help. If there isn't a difference it would beg the question why no female manager has transition into the mens game in the UK at any significant level.
Why has this thread turned into a conversation around women’s football? I really don’t want to, nor do I expect to have to, read about it when trying to read the latest conversation around who the next Charlton manager may or may not be.
That's because the next Charlton manager will be a woman.
Comments
Currently she challenges for league titles, domestic cups and European honours every season. No matter what we think, trying to get out of league one doesn't really compete.
Every time we fail to win a game she'll get endless sexist abuse, on social media both from a tiny minority of our own fans, and the weirdos how seem to live their sad lives on Twitter abusing women every day.
More than that, she'll probably get sexist abuse from within the game. Footballers, on average, are less well educated that then general population (something to do with not paying attention in school due to thinking they're going to make it as a footballer). Put below average education together with stress and testosterone, and the results may not be pleasant. We all know arguments happen in dressing rooms and on training pitches, it's almost guaranteed that will turn sexist at some stage.
And that's before you add in the potential of oppositions players and staff having little digs continually.
Best case scenario, she proves that a very successful women's manager can cut it in league one (part of me wants to say whoopti-do, but it would be an important first step), outside of the best case, she's just asking for endless online abuse, plus abuse from the stands, plus possible abuse from players, and more than likely a massive dose of condescension, if not derision, from the media.
I can't believe you would come out with that rubbish. It's not funny so why would you say that. Horse racing or show jumping is about the only sport I can think of where men and woman can compete on equal terms. Darts and snooker also but it hasn't happen yet.
There was three girls in the Tandridge League who played in boys teams until Nature and puberty decided it was time for them to play in girls teams. Two ended up playing in the Women's championship and one decided to become a county netball player as she grew and grew. ( Be a keeper and raise the standard )
Back to Cafc next manager and let's hope it happens soon.
It's a discussion about an opinion that Chelsea's womens team is bigger than Charlton's men's team.
Wrong thread. Probably better suited to a would ya.
that will decide which is the bigger job
It's neither a step up or step down, to say that is disrespectful
For example the US Women's team (who had recently won the world cup) played and lost 5v2 against an under 15 boys team, not long after.
Have you a name to go with the time ?
the biology is irrelevant to tactics, unless you want the striker to squeeze the defenders balls as the corner comes in.
Shad has international experience as well with coaching the Mongolian team who are really fit guys with plenty of horse power.
If there isn't a difference it would beg the question why no female manager has transition into the mens game in the UK at any significant level.