Charlton Athletic vs Pre-Season Friendlies | Preview & Match Threads (Welling p59, Swansea p67 )

Chunes

Ormiston_Addick said:

Garner needs to be very, very careful with those sorts of comments, they will come back to haunt him if the results go badly.

Like it or not, English fans, especially at League One level, like to see their teams going forward and being aggressive in attack, they don’t really want to see aimless passing of the ball at the back.

We have seen this before with Karl Robinson, plenty of passing but mediocre results and very little penetration up front and sloppy goals conceded.

If we think back to the success under Bowyer it came when the team became more direct and looked for second balls off Taylor in the final third or hit Grant in the channels, we didn’t play possession football at all.

It was the same deal in the Powell promotion team, hit Yann and then play off him, we had a very physical team that basically bullied most of our opponents, the likes of Taylor, Morrison, Cort and Kermorgant were absolute battering rams in the final third.

Don't think it's about the level we're at. You highlight the main point, that most of our managers have been somewhat direct. Even Curbs loved the long ball and flick-on. We're not used to real possession football.

For the record I thought the football under Bowyer in his last year was painfully bad. (Pratson anyone?) He needed Taylor to make it work and once he lost him it fell apart. 

Six-a-bag-of-nuts

.Enjoyed the game and I think the football is going to be a lot more pleasing on the eye this season.
The lack of clinical finishing could be our undoing.
We probably should have won that 5-2

lancashire lad

while Stockley is a proven goalscorer in L1, from what we have seen he is not a  goalscorer in the type of football we now play. One solution is that the coaches will help him improve his abilities and the other is to replace him. If it is the intention to replace him the club will no way advertise the fact, the first that we will know about it is when it is done.
However if nothing is done then a mid table finish at best.

MuttleyCAFC

I am a great believer in creating a style which suits your best players but I can't hope to have Sandgaards fantastic knowledge of the game.

Chunes

MuttleyCAFC said:

I am a great believer in creating a style which suits your best players but I can't hope to have Sandgaards fantastic knowledge of the game.

I'm grateful we're not building a team around Stockley. 

billysboots

How many of Stockleys L1 goals last year were with his head ? 

MuttleyCAFC

Chunes said:

MuttleyCAFC said:

I am a great believer in creating a style which suits your best players but I can't hope to have Sandgaards fantastic knowledge of the game.

I'm grateful we're not building a team around Stockley. 

So what striker are we building it with them in mind? Or should we not bother with strikers?

Scoham

MuttleyCAFC said:

I am a great believer in creating a style which suits your best players but I can't hope to have Sandgaards fantastic knowledge of the game.

To be fair Stockley is the only player who clearly doesn’t appear to fit the style. Is he so good that we should build a team around him?

Chunes

MuttleyCAFC said:

Chunes said:

MuttleyCAFC said:

I am a great believer in creating a style which suits your best players but I can't hope to have Sandgaards fantastic knowledge of the game.

I'm grateful we're not building a team around Stockley. 

So what striker are we building it with them in mind?

You're advocating to build a team around the style of one player (who is not even that great) when we've arguably got 18+ others that don't fit that style. That doesn't seem logical so not for me. 

Ed- Sco put it much better than me.

MuttleyCAFC

No, I suppose you are purposely misunderstanding. If you accept we need a striker or strikers, you have to set up for that striker. Which other striker are we setting up for if not Stockley. Leaburn? If you think we don't need a striker or strikers you are living in cloud cuckoo land.

Chunes

You just didn't communicate your point well. Read your first post again. You said best players, not building around a striker. 

At this point we seem to have only one weak link. I said before the season even started that I hoped we brought in someone to replace Jayden and I'm still hoping, as he is the odd one out in this system. Should we instead build around him, since he's here? I hope not.

golfaddick

MuttleyCAFC said:

No, I suppose you are purposely misunderstanding. If you accept we need a striker or strikers, you have to set up for that striker. Which other striker are we setting up for if not Stockley. Leaburn? If you think we don't need a striker or strikers you are living in cloud cuckoo land.

Over the past week or so the consensus is that we dont need strikers. That we are only playing "1 up front" and it will be the midfield & wide players that will be defaqto strikers. Problem is that they arent good enough either - certainly the ones here last season arent. Payne is part of the answer but I doubt he'll score enough on his own to carry the rest of them. 

MuttleyCAFC

Chunes said:

You just didn't communicate your point well. Read your first post again. You said best players, not building around a striker. 

At this point we seem to have only one weak link. I said before the season even started that I hoped we brought in someone to replace Jayden and I'm still hoping, as he is the odd one out in this system. Should we instead build around him, since he's here? I hope not.

I am typing quickly on a forum, I expect people to understand the basic point or at least make the effort, whether they agree or not. Anyway, work out the number of goals we are likely to need to score and divide them by the players we have. Strikers are a pretty important contributor to this and have we really got masses of goals in our non strikers.

My point with Stockley is who else is there? Stockton? No he isn't here. Aneke, he is always injured. Kanu and Leaburn are youngsters and may not be ready. Criticise Stockley all you want but he is our main striker.

golfaddick

And to add. Gallen said we needed defenders & so we have brought in a new CB, a RB & a LB. Plus a DM & a GK that weren't a neccesity. Just one attacking player in Payne. No strikers although we've let 2 go. 

As you say.....Sandgaard has this fantastic knowledge of football so he must be right. I'm just sad that Golfie Jnr never got to see Killer, Mendonca or even D Bent. 

Scoham

The consensus from the fans has been that we need a striker and I’m part of that, it was TS who said we might not.

If TS had said we need to sign a striker he’d be called naive for letting agents and clubs know we’re desperate.

With Chuks needing a scan it’s even more important so I’m hoping they’re working on it despite not shouting about it.

At the very least I expect we’ll sign a goal scoring wide player.

Chunes

I can't read your mind mate. I can only read what you type. It's a bit much to accuse someone of deliberately misunderstanding when they've taken what you've written as it's naturally interpreted. 

We can agree to disagree. I don't think we should build around one striker who isn't that good. We've built to a system that does look good. I also think it will take more than this window to get it right.

I wonder if the people who a few weeks ago were confident about Stockley in this system have changed their minds having seen him a few times now?

MuttleyCAFC

You are just trying to look smart which I advise against.

paulg1947

seth plum said:

There was a truly memorable moment (for me) in the first half where a defending McGrandles bravely put his head down to clear the ball, and got kicked in the head for his troubles.
(Danny Blanchflower used to say to his teammates "if he puts his head down, don't disappoint him").
The ref immediately checked if McGrandles was OK, but he jumped right up Black Knighting it with 'tis but a scratch'.
Haven't seen that kind of fortitude much in the modern game.

Jeeze i luv a good Monty Python analogy.As the gaffer said welease Woderwick,and bring in old big nose, up the front there, coz he scores lots of goals

ForeverAddickted

golfaddick said:

And to add. Gallen said we needed defenders & so we have brought in a new CB, a RB & a LB. Plus a DM & a GK that weren't a neccesity. Just one attacking player in Payne. No strikers although we've let 2 go. 

As you say.....Sandgaard has this fantastic knowledge of football so he must be right. I'm just sad that Golfie Jnr never got to see Killer, Mendonca or even D Bent. 

A Goalkeeper was a necessity though.

We dropped too many points last season because of clangers from Macca, whilst AMB is too injury prone.

Scoham

MuttleyCAFC said:

You are just trying to look smart which I advise against.

I read it the same way, it came across to me as a different point to building a team around your main striker. It could be argued CBT is our best player so we’re now using wingers - that was the type of point I initially thought you were making.

Chunes

MuttleyCAFC said:

You are just trying to look smart which I advise against.

I think you need a cup of tea, Mutts!

MuttleyCAFC

Do you build a team and ignore your main striker in that? Stockley is our main striker, rightly or wrongly.

letthegoodtimesroll

Scoham said:

MuttleyCAFC said:

You are just trying to look smart which I advise against.

I read it the same way, it came across to me as a different point to building a team around your main striker. It could be argued CBT is our best player so we’re now using wingers - that was the type of point I initially thought you were making.

As superb as he was at times, CBT wouldn’t have seen the  ball as often as he did yesterday if it wasn’t for Stockley and Leaburn drawing the Swansea defenders across the width of the pitch and giving him the space that the Charlton midfield had to pump the ball in his direction so effectively. 

lancashire lad

MuttleyCAFC said:

Do you build a team and ignore your main striker in that? Stockley is our main striker, rightly or wrongly.

That’s the problem

DOUCHER

l've said from day 1 this pre season that i can't see how stockley fits into the way BG wants to play / as a lone striker - my bet is we bring a prem loan striker in, sell stockley and bring a new permanent striker in - stockton maybe? that, for me, would be the perfect solution to happen this week   

MuttleyCAFC

DOUCHER said:

l've said from day 1 this pre season that i can't see how stockley fits into the way BG wants to play / as a lone striker - my bet is we bring a prem loan striker in, sell stockley and bring a new permanent striker in - stockton maybe? that, for me, would be the perfect solution to happen this week   

Ok, but the season starts in 6 days. Will it happen? I suspect not.

SouthWest_Addicks

DOUCHER said:

l've said from day 1 this pre season that i can't see how stockley fits into the way BG wants to play / as a lone striker - my bet is we bring a prem loan striker in, sell stockley and bring a new permanent striker in - stockton maybe? that, for me, would be the perfect solution to happen this week   

Out of interest which club would be willing to sign Stockley and can afford his wage and transfer fee. It’s a fair assumption that he won’t get a move to a championship club.

NabySarr

DOUCHER said:

l've said from day 1 this pre season that i can't see how stockley fits into the way BG wants to play / as a lone striker - my bet is we bring a prem loan striker in, sell stockley and bring a new permanent striker in - stockton maybe? that, for me, would be the perfect solution to happen this week   

I agree but I can’t see it happening. We paid 500k for Stockley, he’s not good enough for the championship so that rules out a move upwards. How many league 1 teams will pay that much for him and need that kind of striker? I don’t think we will be able to sell him unless we make a big loss which I don’t think TS will allow. He’s spent 800k on strikers in the past year so I would be really surprised if he’s going to spend big on another

MuttleyCAFC

Stockley can score 20 plus goals a season if supported. Where will those goals come from if we don't bring in a new striker and he doesn't suit the style the team play? That is why you, in my opinion, set up based on what you have. Not what the owner dreams is the perfect style unless he is willing to fund fully what you need to play it.

robinofottershaw

NabySarr said:

DOUCHER said:

l've said from day 1 this pre season that i can't see how stockley fits into the way BG wants to play / as a lone striker - my bet is we bring a prem loan striker in, sell stockley and bring a new permanent striker in - stockton maybe? that, for me, would be the perfect solution to happen this week   

I agree but I can’t see it happening. We paid 500k for Stockley, he’s not good enough for the championship so that rules out a move upwards. How many league 1 teams will pay that much for him and need that kind of striker? I don’t think we will be able to sell him unless we make a big loss which I don’t think TS will allow. He’s spent 800k on strikers in the past year so I would be really surprised if he’s going to spend big on another

You may well be right. However, the objective of the game is to score more goals than the opposition. I have absolutely no problem with a brand of possession football but if you don't have a striker in the squad who can play well within that system and convert a high percentage of possession into goals you are reliant on people like CBT, Fraser and Payne to carry the load.

We may well see a striker come in but it may need funds being spent to get the right person as opposed to loan ins or free agents. As Doucher says this could have been foreseen weeks ago. It may well be resolved by the time the transfer window closes. However, it was evident there weren't sufficient striking options when the window closed last summer and, albeit with a different playing system, it's hard not to feel a sense of deja vu.