l've said from day 1 this pre season that i can't see how stockley fits into the way BG wants to play / as a lone striker - my bet is we bring a prem loan striker in, sell stockley and bring a new permanent striker in - stockton maybe? that, for me, would be the perfect solution to happen this week
I agree but I can’t see it happening. We paid 500k for Stockley, he’s not good enough for the championship so that rules out a move upwards. How many league 1 teams will pay that much for him and need that kind of striker? I don’t think we will be able to sell him unless we make a big loss which I don’t think TS will allow. He’s spent 800k on strikers in the past year so I would be really surprised if he’s going to spend big on another
Stockley can score 20 plus goals a season if supported. Where will those goals come from if we don't bring in a new striker and he doesn't suit the style the team play? That is why you, in my opinion, set up based on what you have. Not what the owner dreams is the perfect style unless he is willing to fund fully what you need to play it.
l've said from day 1 this pre season that i can't see how stockley fits into the way BG wants to play / as a lone striker - my bet is we bring a prem loan striker in, sell stockley and bring a new permanent striker in - stockton maybe? that, for me, would be the perfect solution to happen this week
I agree but I can’t see it happening. We paid 500k for Stockley, he’s not good enough for the championship so that rules out a move upwards. How many league 1 teams will pay that much for him and need that kind of striker? I don’t think we will be able to sell him unless we make a big loss which I don’t think TS will allow. He’s spent 800k on strikers in the past year so I would be really surprised if he’s going to spend big on another
You may well be right. However, the objective of the game is to score more goals than the opposition. I have absolutely no problem with a brand of possession football but if you don't have a striker in the squad who can play well within that system and convert a high percentage of possession into goals you are reliant on people like CBT, Fraser and Payne to carry the load.
We may well see a striker come in but it may need funds being spent to get the right person as opposed to loan ins or free agents. As Doucher says this could have been foreseen weeks ago. It may well be resolved by the time the transfer window closes. However, it was evident there weren't sufficient striking options when the window closed last summer and, albeit with a different playing system, it's hard not to feel a sense of deja vu.
l've said from day 1 this pre season that i can't see how stockley fits into the way BG wants to play / as a lone striker - my bet is we bring a prem loan striker in, sell stockley and bring a new permanent striker in - stockton maybe? that, for me, would be the perfect solution to happen this week
I agree but I can’t see it happening. We paid 500k for Stockley, he’s not good enough for the championship so that rules out a move upwards. How many league 1 teams will pay that much for him and need that kind of striker? I don’t think we will be able to sell him unless we make a big loss which I don’t think TS will allow. He’s spent 800k on strikers in the past year so I would be really surprised if he’s going to spend big on another
You may well be right. However, the objective of the game is to score more goals than the opposition. I have absolutely no problem with a brand of possession football but if you don't have a striker in the squad who can play well within that system and convert a high percentage of possession into goals you are reliant on people like CBT, Fraser and Payne to carry the load.
We may well see a striker come in but it may need funds being spent to get the right person as opposed to loan ins or free agents. As Doucher says this could have been foreseen weeks ago. It may well be resolved by the time the transfer window closes. However, it was evident there weren't sufficient striking options when the window closed last summer and, albeit with a different playing system, it's hard not to feel a sense of deja vu.
Sadly I have to agree. We have lost a goalscorer in Washington who most of us thought was not consistent enough and replaced him with nobody. Hard to see us achieving much unless we get an upgrade on him in the front line within the next month.
Garner said in his interview that he wants to bring a couple (or a few?) in a couple of areas, or words to that effect. Pretty sure that'll mean a striker, as Davison has gone, and although Kanu and Leaburn have promise, they're ones for cup games, or sub appearances at the moment.
Stockley can score 20 plus goals a season if supported. Where will those goals come from if we don't bring in a new striker and he doesn't suit the style the team play? That is why you, in my opinion, set up based on what you have. Not what the owner dreams is the perfect style unless he is willing to fund fully what you need to play it.
He will but 18 of those will be with his head. The system we are playing is for the outside forwards to drive into the box and pull it back. As yesterday shows this creates chances but most of them will be along the ground, which isn’t his strong suit
Perhaps we could train our wide players to cross properly & get them to put crosses into the box at head height. Only way Stockley is going to score enough to be useful in the team.
So lets look at how many goals we probably need to score. Now, of course the goals we concede is important but you can say that to get in the play offs you generally have to score above 70. How are we going to get to that figure? Look at our squad and guess a reasonable amount of goals from them, for me we are well short and as billynoots says, Stockley can get 20 plus if we play to his strengths but it will likely be a lot less if we don't give him the service his game needs. 70 looks like a high mountain to climb to me.
If three midfielders get 10 each, which would be fantastic, we would need 40 plus from elsewhere!
Perhaps we could train our wide players to cross properly & get them to put crosses into the box at head height. Only way Stockley is going to score enough to be useful in the team.
Problem with that is Stockley will have move from his mid field link up position into the area in time to score, but he isn’t fast enough
I will reiterate that fans don’t actually want attacking football.
Because Ben Garner will supply attacking football this year. We will dominate the ball, we will break into the opponent’s penalty area easily and often.
But for some, it won’t be good enough.
Football fans want adrenaline-pumping, full-blooded, fast-paced football. It’s why you hear cries to get it forward when it’s at the back and the groans when the ball ends up out of play due to an overcooked pass.
Football can be played strategically. Sometimes you have to slow down to find the right path to speed up. I saw enough passages of threatening football yesterday to be encouraged.
I will reiterate that fans don’t actually want attacking football.
Because Ben Garner will supply attacking football this year. We will dominate the ball, we will break into the opponent’s penalty area easily and often.
But for some, it won’t be good enough.
Football fans want adrenaline-pumping, full-blooded, fast-paced football. It’s why you hear cries to get it forward when it’s at the back and the groans when the ball ends up out of play due to an overcooked pass.
Football can be played strategically. Sometimes you have to slow down to find the right path to speed up. I saw enough passages of threatening football yesterday to be encouraged.
I was encouraged by some of our play. I was discouraged of how rubbish we were when we were in promising offensive positions. Ultimately, I want winning football. If long ball wins you promotion I am happy, if passing game wins you promotion, same.
l've said from day 1 this pre season that i can't see how stockley fits into the way BG wants to play / as a lone striker - my bet is we bring a prem loan striker in, sell stockley and bring a new permanent striker in - stockton maybe? that, for me, would be the perfect solution to happen this week
Ok, but the season starts in 6 days. Will it happen? I suspect not.
i'm sure the club are fully aware of what needs doing and have things lined up - a bit of brinkmanship to get best value leading up to the first game but i think it will happen this week
l've said from day 1 this pre season that i can't see how stockley fits into the way BG wants to play / as a lone striker - my bet is we bring a prem loan striker in, sell stockley and bring a new permanent striker in - stockton maybe? that, for me, would be the perfect solution to happen this week
Out of interest which club would be willing to sign Stockley and can afford his wage and transfer fee. It’s a fair assumption that he won’t get a move to a championship club.
he'd be a very good signing for any league 1 club looking to play 2 up top or even a lower champ team - he's a good target man, just not what we need in the system we are playing - wouldn't rule a loan out, there will be takers
l've said from day 1 this pre season that i can't see how stockley fits into the way BG wants to play / as a lone striker - my bet is we bring a prem loan striker in, sell stockley and bring a new permanent striker in - stockton maybe? that, for me, would be the perfect solution to happen this week
Ok, but the season starts in 6 days. Will it happen? I suspect not.
i'm sure the club are fully aware of what needs doing and have things lined up - a bit of brinkmanship to get best value leading up to the first game but i think it will happen this week
mainly a guess but have also heard we are most likely going to bring in a young prem loan striker and maybe a permanent as well - to me that means we are in control on the loan but maybe the permanent is reliant on something happening - could that be Stockley agreeing to a suitable move?
Thinking of starting a sweepstake in relation to how many goals we give away this season by faffing about at the back. Almost gifted Swansea three yesterday.
I'll buy a ticket. And will go for a relatively high number.
It's Ok saying we'll play out from the back but we need the players to do it. Inniss is clearly not capable of doing it, Lavelle doesn't inspire confidence doing it and on the evidence of just yesterday's game (unfair I know) O'Connell doesn't look great at doing it either. When teams realise what we are trying to do, they will press up high and sooner or later, a disaster will happen.
I still have nightmares about that evening game at Burton a couple of years ago when Bowyer had clearly instructed the defence to play out. We mucked up a number of times and ended up losing 4-2. Stand by for similar this year.
I can't really recall any periods of play where we were just knocking it around without looking to go forward. If anything we made Swansea look ponderous in possession in the first half because we were pressing really effectively.
Agree. We all want to see the ball moving forward…BUT sometimes there isn’t an opening or the player in possession is being closed down. Far better to pass back or sideways and retain possession to build again than give the ball away cheaply or play a hoof it forward risky shot.
The problem is we do not have the players with the skill levels to execute this passing play. During the game against Swansea there was a passage of play where I bellowed at our back line to speed up their passing between each other. they it moved slowly back and forth across the back line that the opposition could always follow the ball and close down the last receiver, in the end we ended up in trouble. For this passing football to work, the players must be precise and quick to pass to the next. Not have to look around for an outlet and then dither. The pass must be well weighted and the receiver must control it with one touch. Are players to often can not do this.
I can't really recall any periods of play where we were just knocking it around without looking to go forward. If anything we made Swansea look ponderous in possession in the first half because we were pressing really effectively.
Agree. We all want to see the ball moving forward…BUT sometimes there isn’t an opening or the player in possession is being closed down. Far better to pass back or sideways and retain possession to build again than give the ball away cheaply or play a hoof it forward risky shot.
The problem is we do not have the players with the skill levels to execute this passing play. During the game against Swansea there was a passage of play where I bellowed at our back line to speed up their passing between each other. they it moved slowly back and forth across the back line that the opposition could always follow the ball and close down the last receiver, in the end we ended up in trouble. For this passing football to work, the players must be precise and quick to pass to the next. Not have to look around for an outlet and then dither. The pass must be well weighted and the receiver must control it with one touch. Are players to often can not do this.
But can any team conceivably keep that up for 90 minutes? Not even Man City do either their levels of skill and fitness. IMO slowing the tempo is necessary to conserve energy, make the opposition do the running and invite the press.
I can't really recall any periods of play where we were just knocking it around without looking to go forward. If anything we made Swansea look ponderous in possession in the first half because we were pressing really effectively.
Agree. We all want to see the ball moving forward…BUT sometimes there isn’t an opening or the player in possession is being closed down. Far better to pass back or sideways and retain possession to build again than give the ball away cheaply or play a hoof it forward risky shot.
The problem is we do not have the players with the skill levels to execute this passing play. During the game against Swansea there was a passage of play where I bellowed at our back line to speed up their passing between each other. they it moved slowly back and forth across the back line that the opposition could always follow the ball and close down the last receiver, in the end we ended up in trouble. For this passing football to work, the players must be precise and quick to pass to the next. Not have to look around for an outlet and then dither. The pass must be well weighted and the receiver must control it with one touch. Are players to often can not do this.
I heard Kyle Walker say Guardiola had them do this sometimes (slow passes along back line) because it draws the other team out.
Garner said in his interview that he wants to bring a couple (or a few?) in a couple of areas, or words to that effect. Pretty sure that'll mean a striker, as Davison has gone, and although Kanu and Leaburn have promise, they're ones for cup games, or sub appearances at the moment.
What the manager wants and what the owner is willing to fund, are two different things.
I can't really recall any periods of play where we were just knocking it around without looking to go forward. If anything we made Swansea look ponderous in possession in the first half because we were pressing really effectively.
Agree. We all want to see the ball moving forward…BUT sometimes there isn’t an opening or the player in possession is being closed down. Far better to pass back or sideways and retain possession to build again than give the ball away cheaply or play a hoof it forward risky shot.
The problem is we do not have the players with the skill levels to execute this passing play. During the game against Swansea there was a passage of play where I bellowed at our back line to speed up their passing between each other. they it moved slowly back and forth across the back line that the opposition could always follow the ball and close down the last receiver, in the end we ended up in trouble. For this passing football to work, the players must be precise and quick to pass to the next. Not have to look around for an outlet and then dither. The pass must be well weighted and the receiver must control it with one touch. Are players to often can not do this.
That is a big fear of mine. Also CBT had another strong game except when it was time to seal the deal.
Worst thing that happened to Bow was having to give an immediate reaction to Minto TV when he hadn't chance to tell his players when we played the behind closed doors games, think we all know he could be a tad volatile.
Question: I would prefer this question to be asked of Ben Garner as I need to understand as it puzzles me ?
There was one time in the first half when Steven Sessegnon was on the edge of the box with just the three defenders, one trying to mark him but both Jayden and Miles who came in from the right flank to join Stockley in the box as you should do. Now for me I would want a quality cross either on the ground or in this case in the air to the giant forwards who had the advantage of height. Heading hasn't been banned yet.
This is just a discussion so no need for the negativity bollocks being aimed at me but just confused on how Charlton are going to improve on the 9 wins out of 23 that Swindon achived last season at home ? You need quality in the air as well as on the ground as Rotherham proved last season with promotion. I'm 100% against hoof ball but a big fan of the diagonal ball out wide which has caught Cafc out so much over the last two seasons. Good to see Morgan and Fraser doing these passes to CBT.
I assume the reason that Swindon crossed on the ground was because they had small guys in the box ?
Question: I would prefer this question to be asked of Ben Garner as I need to understand as it puzzles me ?
There was one time in the first half when Steven Sessegnon was on the edge of the box with just the three defenders, one trying to mark him but both Jayden and Miles who came in from the right flank to join Stockley in the box as you should do. Now for me I would want a quality cross either on the ground or in this case in the air to the giant forwards who had the advantage of height. Heading hasn't been banned yet.
This is just a discussion so no need for the negativity bollocks being aimed at me but just confused on how Charlton are going to improve on the 9 wins out of 23 that Swindon achived last season at home ? You need quality in the air as well as on the ground as Rotherham proved last season with promotion. I'm 100% against hoof ball but a big fan of the diagonal ball out wide which has caught Cafc out so much over the last two seasons. Good to see Morgan and Fraser doing these passes.
Any adults who can answer any of the issues raised ?
I found it more noticeable that we were unlikely to have many crosses from the left byline, so would become rather predictable from that side, there was an insistence to cut inside on the right for the in swinging cross. Hope that is being addressed and sessengon gets moved to the right.
Question: I would prefer this question to be asked of Ben Garner as I need to understand as it puzzles me ?
There was one time in the first half when Steven Sessegnon was on the edge of the box with just the three defenders, one trying to mark him but both Jayden and Miles who came in from the right flank to join Stockley in the box as you should do. Now for me I would want a quality cross either on the ground or in this case in the air to the giant forwards who had the advantage of height. Heading hasn't been banned yet.
This is just a discussion so no need for the negativity bollocks being aimed at me but just confused on how Charlton are going to improve on the 9 wins out of 23 that Swindon achived last season at home ? You need quality in the air as well as on the ground as Rotherham proved last season with promotion. I'm 100% against hoof ball but a big fan of the diagonal ball out wide which has caught Cafc out so much over the last two seasons. Good to see Morgan and Fraser doing these passes.
Any adults who can answer any of the issues raised ?
I found it more noticeable that we were unlikely to have many crosses from the left byline, so would become rather predictable from that side, there was an insistence to cut inside on the right for the in swinging cross. Hope that is being addressed and sessengon gets moved to the right.
For that you would need a left footed wingback or winger and we have neither at present. One of the gaps, along with another striker, that must be filled to have a balanced side.
Comments
We may well see a striker come in but it may need funds being spent to get the right person as opposed to loan ins or free agents. As Doucher says this could have been foreseen weeks ago. It may well be resolved by the time the transfer window closes. However, it was evident there weren't sufficient striking options when the window closed last summer and, albeit with a different playing system, it's hard not to feel a sense of deja vu.
If three midfielders get 10 each, which would be fantastic, we would need 40 plus from elsewhere!
Because Ben Garner will supply attacking football this year. We will dominate the ball, we will break into the opponent’s penalty area easily and often.
But for some, it won’t be good enough.
Football fans want adrenaline-pumping, full-blooded, fast-paced football. It’s why you hear cries to get it forward when it’s at the back and the groans when the ball ends up out of play due to an overcooked pass.
Football can be played strategically. Sometimes you have to slow down to find the right path to speed up. I saw enough passages of threatening football yesterday to be encouraged.
What colour is that exactly or is his washing machine on the blink ?
We pressed quite well against Swansea's suicidal defence but it never quite seemed to come off.
Chasing and tackling is becoming as important as goal scoring for forwards. Not sure where that leave Chucks though!
It's Ok saying we'll play out from the back but we need the players to do it. Inniss is clearly not capable of doing it, Lavelle doesn't inspire confidence doing it and on the evidence of just yesterday's game (unfair I know) O'Connell doesn't look great at doing it either. When teams realise what we are trying to do, they will press up high and sooner or later, a disaster will happen.
I still have nightmares about that evening game at Burton a couple of years ago when Bowyer had clearly instructed the defence to play out. We mucked up a number of times and ended up losing 4-2. Stand by for similar this year.
For this passing football to work, the players must be precise and quick to pass to the next. Not have to look around for an outlet
and then dither. The pass must be well weighted and the receiver must control it with one touch. Are players to often can not do this.
There was one time in the first half when Steven Sessegnon was on the edge of the box with just the three defenders, one trying to mark him but both Jayden and Miles who came in from the right flank to join Stockley in the box as you should do. Now for me I would want a quality cross either on the ground or in this case in the air to the giant forwards who had the advantage of height. Heading hasn't been banned yet.
This is just a discussion so no need for the negativity bollocks being aimed at me but just confused on how Charlton are going to improve on the 9 wins out of 23 that Swindon achived last season at home ?
You need quality in the air as well as on the ground as Rotherham proved last season with promotion. I'm 100% against hoof ball but a big fan of the diagonal ball out wide which has caught Cafc out so much over the last two seasons. Good to see Morgan and Fraser doing these passes to CBT.
I assume the reason that Swindon crossed on the ground was because they had small guys in the box ?